Disappointed with my ring :(

[winternight]

winternight, I will admit that what actually upset me on this thread was your very direct statement accusing people at GOG of lying and deliberately misleading you. I have known Jonathan for almost 6 years now, and I know that there is nothing further from the truth. He doesn't do business that way because that is not who he is. I am sure he isn't perfect and can make a mistake like the rest of us. But he is as honest as they come and it did really make me upset to read what you wrote because I am sure it hurt him (and no, I did not alert him to this thread if that is what you're thinking). It would not have bothered me for you to say that you got a stone one time from GOG that was I1, and they told you it was eyeclean to them but it was not to you, and you were unhappy to have the inconvenience of returning it.

I never talked directly to the owner of GOG prior to purchasing the stone. I already said that my word choice was regretable, but I will stand by what I've said regarding the information asked for vs. information received. I did not get the material information I requested to make an informed choice. For the 5th, 6th? time it wasn't just about the stone being eye clean or not it was also that I asked about inclusions and wasn't told about a surface reaching feather. Scratch on the diamond. And GOG defined eye clean to them as 3 inches. I didn't find that to be the case either.

That's great that *you* have had good experiences with GOG. I didn't.

 

[winternight]

I'm done posting.

The last time I left PS for a long break was after I posted that I couldn't see a difference in ACA huggies vs. Costco huggies. I felt very attacked after that thread, just like I do now. If a vendor doesn't give you the information you ask for you can't mention that here? Unless it is a less popular person? I've posted when I've had great experiences as well. Anyways, I'm done.

 

[AllieLuv83]

Winter don't go! I'm sorry you are so disappointed I know how you feel this thread definitely became bigger than I thought it would be! I am sorry if you feel attacked.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Disappointed with IDJ

Well Dreamer, then it would appear that you already knew what her budget was, and thus the question was unnecessary.

I did not know her budget. She corrected my assumption about what it was, stating she did not pay what I thought, and then I asked my question, which you then called rude. I think price is totally germane to the question at hand, as I explained in my subsequent posts. I feel for Allie, but my posts are not directed only at her but at the hunderds of lurkers who read PS for education.

I assumed that you knew her budget from when you asked her in this thread.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/tempted-by-an-egl-stone.170534/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/tempted-by-an-egl-stone.170534/,,[/URL],

I'm happy to see though that this thread is beginning to get back on track. My intention wasn't to be rude or muck up Allies thread. It can be very difficult to determine tone in threads sometimes, and I felt that some of the posts were written to intentional ashame or humilate Allie and her budget and expectations. I apologize if I misinterrpreted the tone and sincerity of the post.

However, I do still believe that eye clean is subjective, but must be consistent reguardless of the situation. You can ask 10 different PSer their definition and you will get almost as many opinions. I feel badly that Allie was disappointed, as you said yourself it's happened to you and many others here, so it appeared to me that the only difference between Allies predicament and some of the others was what Allie felt she could purchase with her budget, hence the discussion about eye clean being eye clean at any price point.

I hope that we can all move on and continue to support Allie.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I actually looked up a few K SI2's on the diamond search but they all came up as dogs on the HCA.

Yuketeil will have access to many stones not likely to be in the search tool I suspect. ETA: Do you mean GIA Ex cuts that scored over 2? Not likely to be dogs. I think you should consider any GIA Ex cuts and also look for GIA VG cuts that got that cut grade because of symmetry or polish. Those are, once again, "compromises" I think make more sense than buying EGL. You can't really trust EGL proportions anyways or cut grades, so a GIA Ex will likely be a better cut, not matter its HCA score.

Dreamer, I just want to be sure of what you mean in the bolded part. With AGS, an excellent on polish will reduce the cut grade to Excellent from Ideal. But a GIA stone can have very good polish and still have the excellent cut grade. That is why I don't recommend GIA very good cut because it has to be something else causing it to miss the ex cut grade. Am I misunderstanding you here?

No, and this could be my memory being faulty Need to look it up again I guess! I thought GIA VG could sometimes be ok whe nthe ywere dinged for things that did not matter... off to find a thread.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Disappointed with IDJ

Actually I agreed with you guys in theory until I thought about it some more. I do think standards are different for a $800 d.85 diamond with no grading vs one that is $5000 with a GIA report. However, for the most part if I were told that a EGL SI1 with X stats was eyeclean by a vendor who (I assumed) knows what PSers are like, I would anticipate that stone being eyeclean whether it was $5000 or $10000. It's been a long time since I've looked at MRB's, but isn't it the stats that largely drive the price? A X color SI1 for EGL for X carat weight with X stats wouldn't have a THAT wide range of price, would it?

I could be faulty in my thinking, of course.

See my previous post: I too expect a stone to be eye clean regardless of price and report if the vendor tells me it is eye clean. This stone appears to be eye clean by the typical standards used by vendors, so the argument is moot for this stone. If I want *better* than that, if I want my own personal definition of eye clean to be met, then I might need to acknowledge it is not possible to meet at some clarities and by extension, some budgets (assuming budget is driving one to look at SI2 or I1 stones).

Re: pricing. Supposedly eye clean does not matter, but apparently in practice is does Wholesalers price GIA SI2 stones with "better" inclusions higher than ones with "worse" inclusions. A stone that is technically an SI2 with a big black booger under the table visible in every lighting will cost less, maybe a lot less if the stone sits around for ages and ages and ages.

KTIceRN is an interesting example where she fully admits she wanted a needle in a haystack, super duper louper eye clean AGS SI2. She waited I think 8 months for Brian to find her one! And I bet she paid more for her SI2 than would have been charged for another SI2 that was not eye clean (not to mention her stringent cut criteria).

Just out of curiosity, how do you know the pricing of eye clean SI2's versus non eye clean SI2's? Makes sense but did a wholesaler tell you?

Skippy I read it on PS, in a thread of Yssie's or a thread where she was posting, I will try and find the source for you and for me too!

 

[Gypsy]

Winternight, I had a difficult experience at the beginning of this year with GOG-- with one of their sales people. I posted about it, but not here. Jonathan apologized but I went somewhere else as a result. I do think that maybe using the word "lying" or some version of it may have been a bit too harsh. But just because I don't like your diction doesn't mean I don't believe you that there was a miscommunication that could have been avoided if the vendor had paid closer attention to your questions. In fact, that's what happened to me. I asked for one thing, and was given several options that didn't meet what I asked for. There was a reason for it, but that should have been presented to me upfront so I could adjust my expectations.

DS, you know I luv you, but defending a vendor from emotional hurt, IMO isn't a good idea. Frankly, it is the business and if they mess up I'm GLAD they hurt. Caring means hurt. That means they are invested and will make it right. If a vendor doesn't CARE about their reputation then I don't want to work with them. And I believe all our best vendors are invested and hurt when they hear criticism. But that does NOT negate the validity of their criticism-- and it certainly doesn't mean that it shouldn't be posted. These are vendors. Not your best friends. And the criticisms are personal, they are about their customer service. Maybe you are a little over invested with GOG?

But I still believe that while criticism is valid and absolutely SHOULD be aired, no matter how beloved the vendor, people shouldn't jump the gun and post PUBLICALLY (on a google searchable website) without giving the vendor a chance to correct the issue first.

 

[happybear]

I never talked directly to the owner of GOG prior to purchasing the stone. I already said that my word choice was regretable, but I will stand by what I've said regarding the information asked for vs. information received. I did not get the material information I requested to make an informed choice. For the 5th, 6th? time it wasn't just about the stone being eye clean or not it was also that I asked about inclusions and wasn't told about a surface reaching feather. Scratch on the diamond. And GOG defined eye clean to them as 3 inches. I didn't find that to be the case either.

That's great that *you* have had good experiences with GOG. I didn't.

winternight,

Please don't go.

For what's it's worth, I did not have a great experience with GOG either, and I did not speak to Jon at all then too. But mine was a minor case compared to yours. Back in Jan last year, I had shortlisted two to three stones from their in-house inventory then and was deciding which diamond to purchase. In my subsequent email to them with regards to one of the shortlisted stone that had fluorescence, I asked if the price can be lowered, since I found out that sometimes fluorescence comes with a discount (can't blame a girl for trying to save some $$$ ). Not only did I not get a discount, I was told in the email reply that the listed price I saw was an old listing and they had revised it to a higher price. I called GOG to ask if they can honor the old price but my request was turned down, reason being I had not requested to put the diamond on hold before the price increase.

I guess I am partly to blame for not putting the diamond on hold before finalizing the sale.
Though I still could afford the GOG revised price, the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth and I decided to give my business to BGD instead. End up getting a diamond AND a pair of studs from them.

 

[TravelingGal]

I never talked directly to the owner of GOG prior to purchasing the stone. I already said that my word choice was regretable, but I will stand by what I've said regarding the information asked for vs. information received. I did not get the material information I requested to make an informed choice. For the 5th, 6th? time it wasn't just about the stone being eye clean or not it was also that I asked about inclusions and wasn't told about a surface reaching feather. Scratch on the diamond. And GOG defined eye clean to them as 3 inches. I didn't find that to be the case either.

That's great that *you* have had good experiences with GOG. I didn't.

winternight,

Please don't go.

For what's it's worth, I did not have a great experience with GOG either, and I did not speak to Jon at all then too. But mine was a minor case compared to yours. Back in Jan last year, I had shortlisted two to three stones from their in-house inventory then and was deciding which diamond to purchase. In my subsequent email to them with regards to one of the shortlisted stone that had fluorescence, I asked if the price can be lowered, since I found out that sometimes fluorescence comes with a discount (can't blame a girl for trying to save some $$$ ). Not only did I not get a discount, I was told in the email reply that the listed price I saw was an old listing and they had revised it to a higher price. I called GOG to ask if they can honor the old price but my request was turned down, reason being I had not requested to put the diamond on hold before the price increase.

I guess I am partly to blame for not putting the diamond on hold before finalizing the sale.
Though I still could afford the GOG revised price, the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth and I decided to give my business to BGD instead. End up getting a diamond AND a pair of studs from them.

And see, I had a not so good experience with BGD! Different strokes for different folks. I'd say one just needs to find the right vendor for them, because everyone I think is "good peeps" but not everyone's style is the same!

I do think people around here do tend to support the vendors staunchy, sometimes at all costs, which is sorta lame. But I understand that vendors work hard to make a good name for themselves around here and want to protect it, and that PSers are often emotionally tied to vendors. That never seems to change around here, that's for sure.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Disappointed with IDJ

I hope that we can all move on and continue to support Allie.

Good plan, Christina. I will of course continue to support Allie, but I think that this thread, while ruffling some feathers, is a really good one. We always have to remember that there are thousands of silent readers out there beyond the few of us who post, and those people can learn from our expereinces, opinions, mistakes, and arguments too. So I don't think its a good idea to try and curtail heated discussions. Most of the best PS threads get heated at some point, and along the way, people learn a lot, participants and readers both.

winternight I think you clarified your position. If another poster or two or fifty are upset over what you said, I hardly think that is worth packing up and leaving over.

 

[happybear]

And see, I had a not so good experience with BGD! Different strokes for different folks. I'd say one just needs to find the right vendor for them, because everyone I think is "good peeps" but not everyone's style is the same!

I do think people around here do tend to support the vendors staunchy, sometimes at all costs, which is sorta lame. But I understand that vendors work hard to make a good name for themselves around here and want to protect it, and that PSers are often emotionally tied to vendors. That never seems to change around here, that's for sure.

TG, I totally agree! Having a great experience with a vendor doesn't automatically mean that vendor can't make mistakes and screw up in other transactions. They are humans too and PS being a consumer forum, should air both the good and bad. Gypsy had eloquently written my thoughts - if the vendor cares about their reputation, they would make it right. But of course, contact the vendor first.

 

[CharmyPoo]

PS vendors aren't perfect and their staff is definetly not equal. I had excellent service from GOG working with Jon but not so much with others. I had poor experiences with BGD but never had the opportunity to work with Lesley/Brian which I am sure would have turned out differently. However, all in all ... I find the vendors recommended here are still far better than most as a generalization.

 

[kenny]

Allie, I just wanted to say I think it was very kind of you to change the thread title.

Good luck on your diamond safari.

 

[Gypsy]

Allie, I just wanted to say I think it was very kind of you to change the thread title.

Good luck on your diamond safari.

Ditto.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Winternight, I just missed your last post back to me. I was out of town while most of this thread was being written and was not reading it closely enough. I understand what happened and why you were upset. I am glad you regretted the wording because that was my objection. I am fine with pointing out experiences or perceived errors short of making a character attack. I have dealt with deliberately dishonest jewelers locally, but definitely not with any of the PS vendors.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

PS vendors aren't perfect and their staff is definetly not equal. I had excellent service from GOG working with Jon but not so much with others. I had poor experiences with BGD but never had the opportunity to work with Lesley/Brian which I am sure would have turned out differently. However, all in all ... I find the vendors recommended here are still far better than most as a generalization.

That's the truth!!!

 

[Deia]

Wow this thread is sad. ..No wonder PS loses once loyal members constantly. +1 to I'm Danny a couple of pages ago...

Anyway, Allie I hope you find a stone that matches what you want, be it EGL, GIA, AGS or whatever!! Good luck Please post pics when you get it, I know i'd love to see it

 

[Mayk]

I made a post earlier regarding the stone being EGL... I would like to say.. we purchased an EGL that was suppose to be a G VS2, when I had an issue with the setting I had another jeweler appraise the stone... the measurements were off, the color was off (three grades) and the clarity was off two... So.. the moral of the story and what I was trying to say.. Is buyer beware... if you know the history of EGL stones it probably best to see the stone for yourself and prepare yourself before hand for the stone to possibly be not what you are expecting. As for my stone... it was graded a J by the jeweler.. it might have been warmer... and at certain times in the daylight it had a tint to it and that was not to my liking... so my comment about it being a J was also about this experience.. I think seeing the stone in person is so important and looking in different lights... it is truly a personal preference and one that depends on the cut.. I will add.. the cut on my G... J EGL stone was also only "Very Good".. which could have contributed to how the stone performed in the light.

As a consumer that spent the money on the EGL and then didn't learn until several months later and then I was forced to upgrade with the same jeweler and paid through the nose for an AGS (and peace of mind. so in some ways priceless).. I've tried to share my story.. so others are not subjected to the same thing.. at the same time there is a posting on SMTB where a man purchased a very nice EGL stone and got a good deal and loved the stone... so I think you really, really have to do your homework to make that situation work out...

 

[jrich]

Allie- I don't mean to bring this post back to the top of the line, but I was curious if you had any updates?

 

[Jeweljunke]

Re: Disappointed with IDJ

can you see it?

Yes, I can CLEARLY see it. I would have returned it too. If you can take a photo like that to show the inclusion, why can't the vendor? That would have avoided lots of problems. That stone is NOT eye clean, that inclusion JUMPS out at ya. Whether it is 6" or 2', once you know it is there, you would always look for it and see it. And yes, the prongs don't look/are not evenly spaced.

 

[AllieLuv83]

We are still working on it! But thank you for thinking of me! I will keep you guys posted soon.

 

[jrich]

Allie,

Have you received your new ring? I visited Yekutiel 2 weeks ago and picked out my ring. It will be here today and I am so excited, but I won't get to see it until the proposal. It made me think of you. I hope you'll share pictures!

 

[Amys Bling]

We are still working on it! But thank you for thinking of me! I will keep you guys posted soon.

can't wait!

 

[Laughinggravy0]

This whole eye clean thing, as other people have said, is so subjective.
I'm selling my grandmother's OEC and it has a reallllly low clarity grade. When the stone is upside down, from the back,you can easily see the inclusions.

However top side down, against the facets, even from the side when it was set, I really didn't ever see anything. Too much light play. But I'd never dream of suggesting that because I couldn't, no one else would. Each person has to see for themselves.

But these huuuuge photos we see on PS or on vendor's sites are tough on less than perfect stones. One really has to remember that in real life the stone is a few millimetres across. I keep reminding myself to look at the size of the hands or fingers on my screen - giant. The photos on the first page were a really good example. Huge photo - yes one can see the flaw. Real life size and, from the photo at least (which is admittedly one dimensional) looks like a lovely stone. I really think we need to think twice before louping unless we've ordered VS1 or higher. The old eye clean/mind clean thing.

On the vendor topic, I have no doubt at all that these guys do their level best to keep their customers happy - they wouldn't be in business otherwise. Sometimes there's a slip up, new staff, or whatever. Deal with them directly and I'm sure they come through or just refund if they think they are blocked - for whatever reason. I have to say, I would hate to be a vendor or designer for us. That squeeze between wanting a perfect stone and not having the perfect budget must be a real stress inducer sometimes.

Hope it all works out, keep us posted. (ed to add that I do understand you saw what bugged you without a loupe and that it jumped out at you)

 

[aljdewey]

I think vendors could take quite a lesson from this thread, and it's this: all you can tell a customer is what YOU see, not what they will or won't see.

If someone asked me if a stone was eyeclean, my answer would be "I can only tell you if it's eyeclean to *my* eyes. It's eyeclean to me, but that doesn't mean it will be to you. The only way you'll know if it's eyeclean to you is to see it for yourself, and that may mean incurring shipping charges if it doesn't work out. While I cannot promise you'll find all VS2 stones eyeclean to you either, the likelihood of success goes up considerably in VS2, so if you're averse to paying shipping charges, it might make more sense to shop in VS-land. Even then, though, same caveat applies. There are people who can see inclusions in VS2 stones, so I can't promise what you will or won't individually see"

Telling a customer that something *is* eyeclean without saying "to me" just invites this kind of disappointed response because the only one that matters in the equation is the customer him/herself. It doesn't matter if 10 other people all thought a stone was eyeclean.....if the buyer doesn't, it's still a fail.

(As an aside, I've often wondered why the shipping charges create such drama. Round-trip shipping charges are still a bargain if you compare them to the alternative costs: spending $$ to travel to see in person yourself or absorbing the price bump to move up to VS. Also, when I get deliveries from nearly any other online vendor, I have to pay shipping charges if I decide it's not what I thought it was and therefore want to return it; I'm not sure why the expectation should be different here if the vendor has messaged accurately as per above.)

 

[aljdewey]

I'm done posting.

The last time I left PS for a long break was after I posted that I couldn't see a difference in ACA huggies vs. Costco huggies. I felt very attacked after that thread, just like I do now. If a vendor doesn't give you the information you ask for you can't mention that here? Unless it is a less popular person? I've posted when I've had great experiences as well. Anyways, I'm done.

Of course you can........but your remarks weren't limited to that.

It's one thing to say "I expected to be given xyz information, and that didn't happen and I was disappointed." No issue at all with that - it's an accurate statement of how things went. It's quite another thing to assign intent and make the leap to "xyz vendor lied to me or intetionally deceived me"; that's an assignation of intent which is both unfounded and inflammatory. There's no reason to withhold a fair critique of an experience with a vendor.

 

[AllieLuv83]

Here is an update [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/idj-ring-update.172191/#post-3132000#p3132000']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/idj-ring-update.172191/#post-3132000#p3132000[/URL]

 

[Amys Bling]

Glad everything worked out