Dilemma Choosing My Rock: Please Please HELP

[Strawberry Tomatoes]

Hi,
I have been looking for a round loose diamond, and have found several choices as follow. After reading here and there, and reading different opinion, I get confuse which of 4Cs determines the beauty/brilliant of a diamond the most.
Here I got a dilemma: color vs. cut

I hope the audiences in the forum can give me feedback which one is the best choice. Of course, I want to keep it under my budget, but if F stone turns out to win the voices, I will try to talk it over to my hubby.

Note: I haven''t seen all of these stone since 3 come from online Blue Nile, the other from a retail store which happens has to request the stone if I am serious.

1. G/VS2/Triple X
Weight/W=1.26 C
Price= 8610
Depth/Table= 61.6/57
Girdle=Med Thick
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: 6.93*6.96*4.28

2. F/VS2/ Cut Very Good, Polish=Symetry= Excellent
Ideal Cut, Heart Arrow
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 9100
Depth/Table= 63.7/55
Crown Angle 36/Height 16.5
Pavilion Angle 40.3/Height 43

Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: forgot to write..but the seller mentioned it is very round

3. F/VS2/ Triple Very Good
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 8320
Depth/Table= 63.3/55
Dimension 6.72*6.78*4.27
Culet=Fluorescence=None

4. F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symetry= V good
Weight= 1.13
Price= 8651
Depth/Table= 62.4/55
Culet=Fluorescence=None

My goal is to find a brilliant stone with combination of size and quality. My original decision was G stone because price seems reasonable, get the big size, cut is triple ex ( I thought cut is the most important).

However, some said Color first, then size, n cut. I got confuse. Please help me in:
1. Choosing the most brilliant stone with a reasonable price without sacrificing too much size
2. Which factor is the most important of choosing a diamond?
3. Is Blue Nile trustable?
4. Is it right Very Good on Cut is very nice already, no need to get excellent and pay extra for that.
5. Is symmetry grade more important than the Cut grade?

Thank you.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2008 1:25:33 AM
Author:Strawberry Tomatoes
Hi,
I have been looking for a round loose diamond, and have found several choices as follow. After reading here and there, and reading different opinion, I get confuse which of 4Cs determines the beauty/brilliant of a diamond the most.
Here I got a dilemma: color vs. cut

I hope the audiences in the forum can give me feedback which one is the best choice. Of course, I want to keep it under my budget, but if F stone turns out to win the voices, I will try to talk it over to my hubby.

Note: I haven't seen all of these stone since 3 come from online Blue Nile, the other from a retail store which happens has to request the stone if I am serious.

1. G/VS2/Triple X
Weight/W=1.26 C
Price= 8610
Depth/Table= 61.6/57
Girdle=Med Thick
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: 6.93*6.96*4.28

2. F/VS2/ Cut Very Good, Polish=Symetry= Excellent
Ideal Cut, Heart Arrow
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 9100
Depth/Table= 63.7/55
Crown Angle 36/Height 16.5
Pavilion Angle 40.3/Height 43

Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: forgot to write..but the seller mentioned it is very round

3. F/VS2/ Triple Very Good
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 8320
Depth/Table= 63.3/55
Dimension 6.72*6.78*4.27
Culet=Fluorescence=None

4. F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symetry= V good
Weight= 1.13
Price= 8651
Depth/Table= 62.4/55
Culet=Fluorescence=None

My goal is to find a brilliant stone with combination of size and quality. My original decision was G stone because price seems reasonable, get the big size, cut is triple ex ( I thought cut is the most important).

However, some said Color first, then size, n cut. I got confuse. Please help me in:
1. Choosing the most brilliant stone with a reasonable price without sacrificing too much size
2. Which factor is the most important of choosing a diamond?
3. Is Blue Nile trustable?
4. Is it right Very Good on Cut is very nice already, no need to get excellent and pay extra for that.
5. Is symmetry grade more important than the Cut grade?

Thank you.

Welcome to Pricescope,

I would scratch the second and third as they are overly deep, and we need the crown and pavilion angles for the first and last please - plus the diameter for the last one also and the girdle thickness.

As to your questions -

1) Cut quality is what will get you a beautiful diamond so it is important to concentrate on that.

2) Cut definitely, then see which colour grades appeal to you, clarity make sure the diamond is eyeclean if dealing with SI clarities in particular.

3) Yes BN is a trustworthy vendor, unfortunately they do not provide photos or other images to help choose a diamond, whereas some of the other vendors with in house diamonds do.

4) Sorry to confuse things, but you can't go by labels such as Very Good for cut, or lab graded Very Good / Excellent cut grade, as sometimes diamonds with less desirable proportions can qualify for these grades and may not be the best performers. Evaluate each diamond on its own visual and physical properties to pick the best ones.

5) Symmetry grade is not a determining factor concerning cut quality. When considering a diamond you need to begin by evaluating its proportions -

depth%
table%
crown angle
pavilion angle
girdle thickness
polish and symmetry
diameter measurement - when posting diamonds this is the info we need.

then to help weed out lesser performers use the Holloway Cut Advisor to see if the diamond is worth further consideration. Generally aim for those which score 2 or below but in some cases diamonds which score over 2 can still be great, in that case get Idealscope images to evaluate further.

 

[oobiecoo]

Cut is always the most important. If you are going for a round stone then I would get the highest or maybe second highest cut possible depending on budget. For me, clarity is next as I wouldn''t want any noticeable inclusions, then color after that.

I''ve never personally ordered from Blue Nile but many people have very good experiences with them. I think if you are well educated and the price is right then they are a good option. If you need a little more guidance then you might want to go with someone else like Whiteflash. As far as which of the stones you posted is best, I''m not too good on the numbers so someone else can answer that.

 

[Stone-cold11]

Over here in PS, we believe that cut is the most important factor in determining the brilliance and sparkle of a diamond. With a round cut, we usually use the Holloway Cut advisor to weed out the bad performing stones. To use that we will need the table%, depth%, crown and pavilion angle which unfortunately you did not provide except for stone 2.

Stone 2, 63.7% depth, 55% table, 36° crown angle, 40.3° pavilion angleis, is actually a FIC, which means that it will show more fire, rainbow colors, but the disadvantage is that it has a deeper crown that a standard ideal cut, thus present a smaller face up size for it''s weight size.

The rest of the stoneI cannot tell anything unless more info is provided, although stone 3 is looking a little on the deep side too.

Color is not that important for a round cut, keep it above a H or I and you are safe, they are more important in fancy cuts as those cuts are more likely to show colors.

To your points
1, We would like to shoot for a H&A, and need more info to see if your stone is a dud.
2, cut, cut and cut... , sometimes we even go to a I, SI2 oe even lower to get that... as long as it is eye-clean.
3, BN is trustable. Just a pain to work with as they do not provide pictures or IS/ASET for us to evaluate the stone for it''s optical performance.
4, Cut wise grading, we usually only trust AGS0 as dependable, others we would like to know their HCA score, IS/ASET pics to determine their performance.
5. Symmetry is a foot note as long as it is VG, unless you are getting a H&A, then you are aiming for optical symmetry which is a different thing.

That said, there are quite a few good stones with WF and GOG that are in your price range. They are trusted vendors.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2008 5:18:31 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Stone 2, 63.7% depth, 55% table, 36° crown angle, 40.3° pavilion angleis, is actually a FIC, which means that it will show more fire, rainbow colors, but the disadvantage is that it has a deeper crown that a standard ideal cut, thus present a smaller face up size for it''s weight size.

And as the OP wants " Choosing the most brilliant stone with a reasonable price without sacrificing too much size" then that diamond is unlikely to be a good choice for her.

 

[Stone-cold11]

True. Just pointing out..

 

[Strawberry Tomatoes]

Hi,
Thanks you for your advices. It seems everybody agreed stone no 2 is not a good one since it is too deep, so I filtered out from the list.
I have gathered more info on the prospective stones as follow:
1. G/VS2/Triple X
Weight/W=1.26 C
Price= 8610
Depth/Table= 61.6/57
Girdle=Med Thick
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: 6.93*6.96*4.28
Crown Angle: 34%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2%
Based on Holloway Cut Advisor = 3, The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish

2. Stone F/VS2/ Triple Very Good
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 8320
Depth/Table= 63.3/55
Dimension 6.72*6.78*4.27
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Girdle= Med Thick
Crown Angle: NA yet..they can''t get it to me till Monday
Pavillion Angle: they can''t get it to me till Monday

3. F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symmetry= V good
Weight= 1.13
Price= 8651
Depth/Table= 62.4/55
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Crown Angle=34.5%
Pavillion Angle=40.8
Girdle=med-slightly thick
Measurements:6.63 x 6.70 x 4.16 mm
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
Holloway Cut Adviser=1.4

As I am confident now "Cut" is the most important in 4C, I would go for Stone Color G, but then HA result said different.

Therefore, it raised some questions, forgive me of my little knowledge, I am still learning..
1. Why the less desirable proportion stones can qualify for high rating on cut grade, but yet still not the best performers?
2. What is the ideal measurement for Crown Angle n Pavilion Angle?
3. For Stone-cold11, who is AGSO? Are you referring to WhiteFlash for WF? How is about GOG?
4. How important is to get Heart and Arrow stone? Is that more a marketing gimmick vs an assurance of a brilliant stone?
5. Why even a stone is Heart n Arrow, but they still don''t have Ex grade on cut, polish, symmetry? I thought for HA stone they got excellent on these 3 factors, thus they are qualified as HA stones.
6. Based on the responses, Cut is most important factor, thus stone no 1 with G color triple Ex would win. But then based on Halloway Advisor,stone 3 F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symmetry= V good, got the highest score 1.4. Why? So, which one is the winner then?
7. Which one is the diameter of a stone? is that the table?
8. What is IS/ASET picture?
9. So, how should I make my decision? Based on cut grading or HA result?
10. Since Blue Nile doesn''t provide picture, what can i do to assure the quality of the diamond?
But then does picture really tell how brilliant a diamond is ? I meant it seems hard to evaluate from it.



Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate your time and courtesy. Buying a diamond is exciting, but yet quite frustrating...

 

[Stone-cold11]

Date: 10/11/2008 2:37:35 AM
Author: Strawberry Tomatoes
1. Why the less desirable proportion stones can qualify for high rating on cut grade, but yet still not the best performers?
That is due to how different labs grades ideal, GIA has a much larger range of proportions that they term as ideal so poor performers can be found if you are just basing your cut selections on their cut grading.
2. What is the ideal measurement for Crown Angle n Pavilion Angle?
According to AGA RB guidelines, they are 34-34.7 degree for crown angle and 42.8-43.2% for pavilion depth. But this has to work well with the other proportions to achieve excellent performance and not a stand alone number.
3. For Stone-cold11, who is AGSO? Are you referring to WhiteFlash for WF? How is about GOG?
AGS is a lab for gem grading similar to GIA, but considered more strict on how they grade cuts, through simulation of light rays in diamond of the exact proportion of the stone in question. So a AGS0, their ideal cut grade, is a safe bet for an excellent performer.
4. How important is to get Heart and Arrow stone? Is that more a marketing gimmick vs an assurance of a brilliant stone?
No assurance of brilliance there, just excellent optical sym and allows you to see pretty pics on the stone. That can translate into better optical performance in some cases.
5. Why even a stone is Heart n Arrow, but they still don''t have Ex grade on cut, polish, symmetry? I thought for HA stone they got excellent on these 3 factors, thus they are qualified as HA stones.
H&A only demonstrates how well a stone is cut optically. Polish will allow better light reflection from a facet. Symmetry in report refers to physical symmetry and that does not automatically relates to optical symmetry.
6. Based on the responses, Cut is most important factor, thus stone no 1 with G color triple Ex would win. But then based on Halloway Advisor,stone 3 F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symmetry= V good, got the highest score 1.4. Why? So, which one is the winner then?
HCA is not about lowest score, anything below 2, also an arbitrary cut off, is a excellent candidate for a good performer, which then will depend on the personal taste of the buyer. Stone1 is just a little off the scale, so it might still perform well and someone could like that performance.
7. Which one is the diameter of a stone? is that the table?
That is the mm dimension you gave, for example, stone1 will be 6.93-6.96mm. Table is just the big flat facet on top of the round cut.
8. What is IS/ASET picture?
Reflector image that shows how good the light reflections of a round is from the observer point of view and where the light is coming from. Thus it is an important tool for people buying online as it will show how a stone performs.
9. So, how should I make my decision? Based on cut grading or HA result?
I don''t really get what you are trying to say here but here is my opinion. Based it on dimensions given and the HCA results, and then view the IS/ASET pics of candidates that achieve a HCA <2 and select from them. If you are going for H&A stone, then go with a online vendor that shows the Hearts and Arrows pic too, like WF, GOG and Winkfields, as you will need to see them to confirm if they are really H&A stones not just what the vendors state on their stones.
10. Since Blue Nile doesn''t provide picture, what can i do to assure the quality of the diamond?
BN stones, the best way for assurance is to go for a AGS0 stone, graded by AGSL.

But then does picture really tell how brilliant a diamond is ? I meant it seems hard to evaluate from it.
No, that is only just eye candy and maybe a reassurance of whether the stone is eye-clean. For eye-cleanness of SI1 and below, it would still be best to check with the store for assurance.

Hope it helps.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/11/2008 2:37:35 AM
Author: Strawberry Tomatoes
Hi,
Thanks you for your advices. It seems everybody agreed stone no 2 is not a good one since it is too deep, so I filtered out from the list.
I have gathered more info on the prospective stones as follow:
1. G/VS2/Triple X
Weight/W=1.26 C
Price= 8610
Depth/Table= 61.6/57
Girdle=Med Thick
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Dimension: 6.93*6.96*4.28
Crown Angle: 34%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2%
Based on Holloway Cut Advisor = 3, The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish

2. Stone F/VS2/ Triple Very Good
Weight/W=1.20 C
Price= 8320
Depth/Table= 63.3/55
Dimension 6.72*6.78*4.27
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Girdle= Med Thick
Crown Angle: NA yet..they can't get it to me till Monday
Pavillion Angle: they can't get it to me till Monday

3. F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symmetry= V good
Weight= 1.13
Price= 8651
Depth/Table= 62.4/55
Culet=Fluorescence=None
Crown Angle=34.5%
Pavillion Angle=40.8
Girdle=med-slightly thick
Measurements:6.63 x 6.70 x 4.16 mm
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
Holloway Cut Adviser=1.4

As I am confident now 'Cut' is the most important in 4C, I would go for Stone Color G, but then HA result said different.

Therefore, it raised some questions, forgive me of my little knowledge, I am still learning..
1. Why the less desirable proportion stones can qualify for high rating on cut grade, but yet still not the best performers? Because these cut grades can allow for less desirable combos such as steep deeps, the best advice is to always evaluate each diamond on its own proportions and desirable visual properties.
2. What is the ideal measurement for Crown Angle n Pavilion Angle? Many here like a crown angle to be between 34 and 35 degrees and a pavilion angle between 40.6 and 41 degrees. It is VERY important to be evaluate combos which are entering the shallower ( CA 34/ PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35/ PA 41) carefully with Idealscope images and trusted vendor / appraiser input to make sure that combo is complimentary for that particular diamond.
3. For Stone-cold11, who is AGSO? Are you referring to WhiteFlash for WF? How is about GOG? Yes WF and GOG are abbreviations commonly used for these vendors.
4. How important is to get Heart and Arrow stone? Is that more a marketing gimmick vs an assurance of a brilliant stone? It depends on your priorities if you want a hearts and arrows, many diamonds can show an arrow pattern yet not be hearts and arrows diamonds, or sometimes just a well cut stone can be fine, it depends on what you want. If you just want a beautiful diamond which displays a good amount of fire and brilliance, then a stone which has proven performance and top light return can be a fine choice, doesn't have to necessarily be a h&a.
5. Why even a stone is Heart n Arrow, but they still don't have Ex grade on cut, polish, symmetry? I thought for HA stone they got excellent on these 3 factors, thus they are qualified as HA stones. You need to evaluate each diamond, don't assume anything. Some ' hearts and arrows' may not be the best performers, some can be. Evaluate each diamond on its own merits. Lab graded symmetry is not the same as optical symmetry.
6. Based on the responses, Cut is most important factor, thus stone no 1 with G color triple Ex would win. But then based on Halloway Advisor,stone 3 F/VS2/Cut=Ex, Polish =Symmetry= V good, got the highest score 1.4. Why? So, which one is the winner then? The HCA isn't used to judge individual aspects of a diamond, it is purely an elimination too, it can't see the diamond to evaluate any real aspect of it. What it does is to let you know which proportions are likely to work well together, usually diamonds which score 2 or below - all scores under 2 are considered equal. Even diamonds which score over 2 in some circumstances can be excellent performers, Idealscope and trusted vendor input are your best methods to use.
7. Which one is the diameter of a stone? is that the table? The diameter is the figure which corresponds to the outline of the diamond which denotes its face up size in MM.
8. What is IS/ASET picture? Idealscope and ASET are used respectively to measure light leakage and light return in a diamond.
9. So, how should I make my decision? Based on cut grading or HA result? Do not use the HCA to choose a diamond, evaluate the proportions and Idealscope if you have it, trusted vendor input, and lastly your own eyes.
10. Since Blue Nile doesn't provide picture, what can i do to assure the quality of the diamond? Check out the numbers then if it seems like a winner, they have a 30 day return policy.
But then does picture really tell how brilliant a diamond is ? I meant it seems hard to evaluate from it. Other images such as IS/ ASET are more useful for round diamonds than a pic IMO.



Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate your time and courtesy. Buying a diamond is exciting, but yet quite frustrating...

 

[Ellen]

#3 gets my vote, very safe specs. (out of the two you have all the info on)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/11/2008 8:43:56 AM
Author: Ellen
#3 gets my vote, very safe specs. (out of the two you have all the info on)

LOL! Forgot to add that to my post but ditto #3!

 

[PinkSummer]

I recently bought off of bluenile and was very happy with their customer service and you can''t beat their selection. Their prices also are the best I can find on the internet. I purchased two diamonds to have set into earrings and my appraiser said I got them for steal...I used the HCA tool on here to weed out some choices and I absolutely love the ones I purchased. I am VERY picky on my diamonds and couldn''t be happier with the ones I purchased from BlueNile. I went with cut quality first, then clarity and finally color. Happy shopping!

 

[Fancy_yellow_gal]

Strawberry, I would go to a jeweler with a good reputation and buy a stone you can actually see. Blue Nile prices are ok, but there are better out there.
Where are you located? If your in the Chicago area, I can give you some ideas. Good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/11/2008 3:55:53 PM
Author: Fancy_yellow_gal
Strawberry, I would go to a jeweler with a good reputation and buy a stone you can actually see. Blue Nile prices are ok, but there are better out there.
Where are you located? If your in the Chicago area, I can give you some ideas. Good luck!

FYG, of course it is perfectly fine to buy from a jeweller if that is what you want, but many here purchase from online vendors with great success. BN do have a very good reputation as do the other Pricescope vendors here who have sold to countless happy customers. In case you are not familiar with some of the sellers, some do have in house diamonds often with the cut analysis provided so the client can make a well informed purchase decision. Also they have good return policies so the buyer can evaluate the diamond properly. Also the particular diamond from BN listed appears to be a very well cut stone and apparently their prices are competitive.

 

[Strawberry Tomatoes]

Date: 10/11/2008 10:09:22 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/11/2008 8:43:56 AM

Author: Ellen

#3 gets my vote, very safe specs. (out of the two you have all the info on)

LOL! Forgot to add that to my post but ditto #3!

Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. What a valuable knowledge I got. This forum really helps me becoming an educated buyer. All of you are very helpful in narrowing my choices.

I have contacted WF, and they gave me some nice stone choices, however, I can''t listed yet because some are missing their crown and pavillion angle info. I will post it tomorrow once they get back to me.

However, my stone at blue nile is only put on hold till tomorrow. My favorite stone (No 1, G/VS2/Triple Ex. 1.26, depth 61.6, table 57, girdle med thick, culet=fluoresence=none, crown angle 34, pavillion angle 41.2) seems not get good votes due to its steeper pavillion angle.

My questions here:
1. Will the slightly deeper angle(41.2%) will give black return light?
2. What should I do with this stone? Let it go? It only got 3(worth to buy if price is right --according to HCA), while the other 2 stones from WF get 1.6 and 1.4 score...and they give me other 2 which data is not yet complete
My worry is the price seems competitive for that carat weight, but then if you guys think it is not a brilliant stone, I would say good bye and focus on WF stones
3. If I want to get a stone that looks bigger than its size, what criteria should I look at?

Thank you. I am looking forward to hearing back from u. Good night

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/13/2008 2:06:49 AM
Author: Strawberry Tomatoes

Date: 10/11/2008 10:09:22 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/11/2008 8:43:56 AM

Author: Ellen

#3 gets my vote, very safe specs. (out of the two you have all the info on)

LOL! Forgot to add that to my post but ditto #3!

Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. What a valuable knowledge I got. This forum really helps me becoming an educated buyer. All of you are very helpful in narrowing my choices.

I have contacted WF, and they gave me some nice stone choices, however, I can''t listed yet because some are missing their crown and pavillion angle info. I will post it tomorrow once they get back to me.

However, my stone at blue nile is only put on hold till tomorrow. My favorite stone (No 1, G/VS2/Triple Ex. 1.26, depth 61.6, table 57, girdle med thick, culet=fluoresence=none, crown angle 34, pavillion angle 41.2) seems not get good votes due to its steeper pavillion angle.

My questions here:
1. Will the slightly deeper angle(41.2%) will give black return light? It could be fine, but without an Idealscope we can''t tell for sure.
2. What should I do with this stone? Let it go? It only got 3(worth to buy if price is right --according to HCA), while the other 2 stones from WF get 1.6 and 1.4 score...and they give me other 2 which data is not yet complete I would hold on and get the rest of the info from WF.
My worry is the price seems competitive for that carat weight, but then if you guys think it is not a brilliant stone, I would say good bye and focus on WF stones WF often provide cut analysis so you know exactly what you are buying, plus other benefits such as lifetime upgrade policies which you might want to factor into your decision.
3. If I want to get a stone that looks bigger than its size, what criteria should I look at? Really pears, marquise and ovals can look large for the weight. I would advise if you are sticking to round diamonds to get the best cut you can, it will look larger than its lesser cut counterparts due to the edge to edge light return.

Thank you. I am looking forward to hearing back from u. Good night