cut is the LEAST important of the 4 C''s

[iceeiceebaby]

i just recently got engaged. after doing some diamond research, i learned that cut is supposed to be the most important thing. so i focused my search on getting the best cut diamond i could find.

the thing is, however, that everyone that asks about the diamond is only concerned about the other C''s (carat, clarity, and color).

the first question asked is always, "how big is it?" this is understandable, and i got my fiancee a good sized rock b/c i thought it would be nice too.

after that, people will always ask about color and clarity. these are apparently the only measures of diamond quality to most people. as long as you stay in the colorless and VVS grades, your diamond will be considered one of the highest quality. if you go for a G color, the diamond will be considered good (since it is only one grade lower than colorless) but not great. the same applies to VS diamonds. anything lower in color and clarity, and the diamond quality is just okay. nobody cares about the lab that graded the diamond (e.g. AGS vs.EGL)

nobody ever asks about cut. the closest questions you get are ones related to shape.

i ended up going with an ACA/G/Si1. it''s beautiful and very sparkly. i think i got a great diamond. but when people ask about the specs, they always seem unimpressed. i think that people would be more impressed if i had gotten a poorly cut F/VVS2 diamond graded by some lenient lab.

i''m not really concerned about impressing anyone with the diamond besides my fiancee (and she loves it!). but it is annoying to have people thinking that you aren''t giving high quality stuff to your fiancee--especially when you feel that you are.

so in conclusion, i''ve learned that if you want the prettiest diamond, cut is the most important. if you want the most impressive diamond, however, cut might be the least important.

 

[decodelighted]

I realize this must be irritating to you right now ... but I assure you, this "what color, clarity etc" talk will only last a few months -- when people are thinking about the "purchase" aspect of the stone.

The SUPERIOR BRILLIANCE and SPARKLE of the stone will last FOREVER -- long after people have satisfied their limited curiosity, based on the little they "know" about diamonds.

FYI -- you don''t have to tell ANYONE anything about the stone. The fact that you ARE telling leads me to believe that you were expecting positive reinforcement ... and are just now realizing that MOST people are concentrating on the WRONG things when it comes to diamonds. Please don''t worry about it -- and CLAM UP if you are gonna worry about it.

Let that gorgeous, carefully chosen ROCK speak for itself!

 

[pricescope]

Deja Vu: IMO - Cut is the LEAST important thing...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/9/2007 9:46:33 PM
Author: Pricescope
Deja Vu: IMO - Cut is the LEAST important thing...

oh how funny..... I stumble around in the old posts a *lot* and just saw this about 3 days ago and read the whole thread LOL I''d never seen it before and then voila! again! seriously - deja vu LOL

BTW I second deco.

Are you buying the stone for what others will think of you and how impressive it is when you give your info out or are you buying something that''s for you to appreciate the *beauty* of? The cut has to do with optical physics. It makes the difference between a clear pebble and a performing rock.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

If your fiancee loves it, that is all that should matter. Most people just don''t understand diamonds. They think that the color, clarity and carat weight is what makes the diamond. Sure, they are all important, but what we all know is that the cut is the most important!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am one that thinks the 4 C''s need to be balanced. I had limits on each of the 4 C''s where I would not go lower. I do think the general population equates clarity with quality more than the PS group does. And I agree that most people want to know color and carats due to the fact that they know nothing about cut, and the color and size are the most visible features. Great cut just makes the stone more beautiful, obviously. But I think Jim Schultz makes a good point that there is no reason to put down near ideal cut diamonds because most of us wouldn''t be able to tell the difference between an ideal and a near ideal anyway!

 

[Finding_Neverland]

I understand how you feel, Icee.

We have a younger friend who recently got engaged. His FI''s e-ring has a princess cut center stone. Since I''ve seen them on the webinars, and live and in person at jewelry stores, I know well cut Prins do exist. And they are much livelier stones than your average run of the mill princess diamond.

So I see his gal''s ring and that center stone is DEAD. But I''m nice and compliment the Bride 2B about her "lovely" ring. Then I ask my friend all the stats on the ring. He puffs up his chest and proudly tells me it''s a 1 carat, F, VVS2. So I asked him about the cut grade. He looks at me quizically for a moment and then says, "Color and clarity are where it''s at! Don''t you know that?"

DS brought up a good point noted by Jim Schultz in the referenced thread. Garry Holloway and other Pros here have posted similar comments. Near Ideal. Ideal. Will we, as regular folk see the difference?? Probably not. A good performer is a good performer. Could we likely pick out the less sparklies and the duds?? Yep!!

As Deco so aptly noted,....... The new will wear off and these questions will cease. What won''t cease is the dazzle of the diamond you did select.

 

[GZeus]

Thanks for the link to the other thread! Great reading for a noobie - darn funny in spots.

My favorite quote (from the first page):
Some women would be happier if their man said they paid $20,000 rather than $10,000 for the exact same ring. Why? Their primary happiness comes from the feeling that their ring is expensive and that they are special enough that the man is sacrificing that much for them. Although it is totally illogical to me. "I just threw away all my money on a worthless shiny bauble. Would you forever tie your financial future to me?"

Now that''s funny!

 

[DBM]

It always stuck in my head a story: a guy sent his fiancee to a dealer, telling the dealer he wanted to stay under a carat to keep within the budget. when the woman arrived by the dealer and within a short amount of time she inquired as to why he was only showing her diamonds that were under 1 carat the dealer replied sheepishly that as far as he was knew the purchase options were for under 1 carat only. To which the woman replied (and this phrase i always remember) "this ring is a symbol of what I''m worth to him and I think I''m worth a carat

 

[oldminer]

In simpler times, customers got a rather quick explanation of the four C''s, trusted the jeweler, and spent their money on a nice diamond. It just isn''t much that way any more. The entire transaction is far more technical and detailed for most people today. Still, many consumers are not highly educated nor interested in much more than affordability. Well over 1/2 the market is strictly a dollars and cents deal with few details required. Increasingly retailers have to explain the fine points to make better sales and Cut is the most difficult element to tackle head-on.

Its relatively easy to explain color with a demonstration of comparison stone grading. Its easy enough to show larger inclusions in a binocular microscope. Weight and its simplistic relation to visual size can be passed off as a no brainer although diameter versus depth often gets left out of the explanation. The shape rather than the quality of cut is usually tried, but many customers now know that shape and cut quality are not synonymous. Retailers try to explain shape by parameters of measure. I have supported this and so have many others over the past twenty years, but parameters and performance only have an imperfect passing relationship. Explaining the measurement of light return and its character require some degree of sophisticated knowledge and education which few consumers have a good handle on. Yet, it is up to the retailer to explain it properly and with enough simplicity to get the message across. I think only a small percentage of retailers can accomplish the explanation of cut and light measurement with a high success rate.

Because it is relatively difficult to explain "cut", it remains the subject to be avoided by many retailers. Consumers who don''t know better end up believing they have had enough technical explanations before the Cut issue has been disclosed, so it is relegated to a less important position than it really is. For those who have had the full Pricescope treatment, or looked at sites like Whiteflash, GoodOldGold, James Allen, BlueNile, etc... then you just know a lot more about this important topic.

In time, retailers of every level who wish to compete the diamond sales market will gain a better perspective on what to say and what diamond Cut is all about. It is technical, but has relatively easy to explain components. Cutters are learning more and more about this too. We will see a higher proportion of well cut diamonds as cutters are perfecting their art with the science brought to them by new technology.

The selection of what diamond is beautiful will always remain with the end user. Affordability will always play a major role in final choice, too. The importance of Cut will increase as the ability of those selling diamonds increases to give it a reasonable explanation. I work on this with my local and distant retailers at every opportunity and hope others with good knowledge share this with the trade whenever the need arises. Its good to share this with consumers BEFORE they make a buying choice, too.

 

[Elise]

Hey Icee, I know what you mean. I live in a country where the general population is (IMHO) overly concerned with clarity and colour. It''s both hilarious and sad at the same time when someone compliments me on the beauty of my engagement ring then proceeds to make a face when, upon enquiry, I tell them what colour and clarity it is (it''s a G, VS2). I know of some friends who have beautiful and huge e-rings which are of lower colour and clarity than what is considered "acceptable" here and I have heard remarks from others like "oh, she got a 2 carat? but it''s a lousy 2 carat cos it''s a low colour and low clarity." It may be the most beautiful, sparkling diamond they have seen in their lives but they would still disparage it because of it''s colour or clarity. Jealousy perhaps?

Unfortunately apart from educating consumers like what PS is doing, I don''t think there is much we can do about changing the perceptions of others. Most importantly, do you love it? Does your fiancee love it? If yes, I think you have the most perfect diamond regardless of colour or clarity.

When people ask me about the "stats" of my e ring nowadays, I''ll just ask them to guess. You''ll be surprised how many get it wrong!

 

[jstarfireb]

I think the reason most people discount cut and play up the other factors is just ignorance! Cut is the hardest to understand of the 4 Cs because it's not as intuitive as the others. And so many people throw around the word "ideal cut" when in reality, a very small percentage of diamonds on the market are actually ideal cut. But once people realize that it probably has the greatest impact on beauty, they'll change their minds. Send 'em to PS for some edu-ma-cation.

I also think the 4Cs need to be balanced, but provided that it's eye-clean and white, you don't need to go too high in color and clarity to do this. Plus, a great cut can hide flaws in the other Cs. It will make a diamond face up larger (carat) and whiter (color), and it will hide flaws (clarity).

 

[He Scores]

As always in diamonds, each of the four C''s is an important preference to different people. It''s important that when you buy a diamond that the wearer gets compliments. This makes her/him feel good. Negative comments can have an opposite effect.

In America, we''re oversized greedy pigs. More, more, more, now, now, now.

So yes, when someone notices a diamond on someones hand, often times the first question is....."how big is it?"

Usually to achieve this attention I''ve always recommended that a person buys a one carat size or better. A one carat white imperfect, will get more compliments than a .60ct D flawless if both are cut similarly. Trust me.

However, once the size is achieved, then other factors such as color and cut come into play.

All of these three characteristics are something other lay people can see with their own eyes and can verbalize. Clarity is usually the last on the list since the top half of all clarity grades needs magnification to differentiate and for all my past customers who came in looking for a VS better stone, all I had to do was to show them what one fingerprint on a stone would do to the appearance of it and they immediately saw how unimportant that VS grading was.

In America''s market, preferences of most buyers are size, color, cut and clarity in that order. This wasn''t always the case, but seems to be my experience over the last 15 years or so. During the eighties, J VS was the hot item.

To say that cut is the least important is painting with a broad brush. After all, what would it look like if it weren''t cut?

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[iceeiceebaby]

"FYI -- you don''t have to tell ANYONE anything about the stone. The fact that you ARE telling leads me to believe that you were expecting positive reinforcement ... and are just now realizing that MOST people are concentrating on the WRONG things when it comes to diamonds. Please don''t worry about it -- and CLAM UP if you are gonna worry about it."

i don''t really bother telling people about the stone. it''s just that people ask. and if they ask, i''ll answer them truthfully. i''d feel a bit silly playing dumb about the specs of the stone.

thanks for the link to the old thread too. that was a fun read.

overall, i''m very happy with my purchase. it isn''t really a big deal to me that people don''t recognize the importance of cut. it''s just a little annoying. i apologize if i made it seem otherwise.

 

[FireGoddess]

I don't sweat it anymore. I used to before PS, but not anymore. Now I'm the one who can be rather unimpressed when I hear that someone bought an IF or VVS1 stone...I tend to think, 'you could have gone bigger if you were more lax about inclusions you can't see anyway...'

In the end, the cut speaks for itself. I'd rather have a smaller firecracker than a larger pane of glass. Obviously those are 2 extremes and there are interim stops along the way. But in the end people look at the SPARKLE first....at least I do!

 

[grapegravity]

I totally agree with firegoddess.. ppl notice the sparkles more than the size! My friend asked me about the specs of my diamond so I told her it''s H, Si2 but eye clean, and she looked at me and said "my sister has a VVS2, why is your sparklier than hers?" I told her it''s the cut that matters, and she just stared at me like I said some alien language to her... Oh well, they all think I''m a freak because I like to look at jewelry and diamonds during my spare time...

 

[TravelingGal]

I was trying to educate some acquaintances this weekend about cut, and the guy said the usual, "right...like princess yeah?"

Bottom line to me is if the lady (or gent) wants to wear the ring for her own enjoyment, cut is tops. If she wants to wear it to impress others, carat is tops. This goes for even for size whores, and we''ve got plenty on PS.

The sizes whores on PS (savvy ones anyway) won''t sacrifice too much cut quality (if at all) for size. Clarity and color get slashed before cut.

Friends will only ask about your ring right when you get engaged. After that, who cares? It becomes yours to enjoy for the rest of your life...or at least until the next upgrade. I feel like I know every facet of my diamond and it delights me to see how sparkly it is...because that is what I am looking for day in and day out. It''s been over a year since I''ve had it and I still admire it every day. I''m mentally ill, I know!

And when I first got engaged, I had a lot of people say, "Oh, pretty." upon first glance because the size is "only" a carat. Then a second later, "OHH, wow, that is SPARKLY!" One girl commented that it was that sparkly because it was new (uh, I don''t think so honey...yes, it''s clean, but it''s also well cut.) Another said, "I can''t take my eyes off it because it''s so sparkly."

Yup, that''s the idea dear!

 

[enbcfsobe]

I''ve gotten the "its so sparkly b/c its new" thing too -- I just laugh. Sometimes, around friends/acquaintances whose rings aren''t well-cut and don''t sparkle (even though some are larger than mine), I actually sometimes use that as an ''excuse'' for why my ring looks so much better rather than try to get into explaining cut to them.

 

[kkarpeles]

I would say stick with cut since you can have a good color and loosey cut and the diamond will not have the fire it woul dhave with a well cut diamond. I do agree that there needs to be a balance of all the 4 C''s to do well. I would lean toward cut and clarity since I can see a black inclusion when looking at rings. And once you start to look at diamond under the loupe, you know what to look for. I''m always struck with people''s responses about diamond rings....I was floored that people asked how many carats- I thought it was rude to be frank. And for that matter, you can probably make up any color, clarity and cut and most people would NOT know the difference.
Don''t sweat it.

 

[sugarplum]

Don''t sacrifice cut for any of the other C''s. We almost purchased an F color stone, VS1 EX/EX/EX thinking it''s in the colorless range so it''ll be white and that it''d be the perfect stone because afterall, it''s triple excellent. WRONG!

The pavillion angle was 41.6 and it didn''t face up like a colorless stone at all. Instead, it was really yellow. I read that an F stone with a deep pavillion can look like an H color stone. It''s true! I put that F next to a G and the G was soooo much whiter. The F made the G look like an E or D! This F stone got an HCA score of 5.7!

I was really frustrated and disappointed in the fact that GIA is letting such stones pass as "Excellent" cut. I''m a quality over quantity person so I''d take a smaller, well cut sparkley stone over a huge, poorly cut stone any day.

-Sugarplum

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/11/2007 8:28:58 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I don't sweat it anymore. I used to before PS, but not anymore. Now I'm the one who can be rather unimpressed when I hear that someone bought an IF or VVS1 stone...I tend to think, 'you could have gone bigger if you were more lax about inclusions you can't see anyway...'

In the end, the cut speaks for itself. I'd rather have a smaller firecracker than a larger pane of glass. Obviously those are 2 extremes and there are interim stops along the way. But in the end people look at the SPARKLE first....at least I do!

TOTALLY!!

Heck I look at my ring F VS1 (bought before PS) and I wonder if I could have gotten more spread with a H VS2. Just 0.5mm more would have been TOTALLY worth dropping down in clarity and size. If it wasn't an asscher I would have been ECSTATIC with an even bigger eyeclean S12.

You know what keeps me happy though? The CUT on mine is excellent. Makes what could have been flat and glassy into a bright mezmerizing stone. I wouldn't have EVER passed the cut up for spread.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Great post

A couple of observations:

You need not be an apologist, but there are various types of social networks and ethnic groups where these things are discussed, and because (as Dave and others mentioned) ''cut'' is the least easily defined of the 4C''s, it is only natural that you might need to do some explaining.
If it suits you to big note and impress (as is the wants in many sociotal groups) then simply use the knowledge you have gained by playing politician (rule # of politics; ask a question to diffuse a difficult question) and ask the people asking you what they know about diamond cut quality. Just keep asking them increasingly difficult questions until they realize they know didly squat about diamonds.
When they are laying on the floor begging for mercy, leave them writhing in agony, or give them the coup de grace (sp?). Pricescope.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/12/2007 3:54:17 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
If it suits you to big note and impress (as is the wants in many sociotal groups) then simply use the knowledge you have gained by playing politician (rule # of politics; ask a question to diffuse a difficult question) and ask the people asking you what they know about diamond cut quality. Just keep asking them increasingly difficult questions until they realize they know didly squat about diamonds.
When they are laying on the floor begging for mercy, leave them writhing in agony, or give them the coup de grace (sp?). Pricescope.

been there done that got kicked out of the Jewelery store and asked not to come back.
Dinos don''t like it much. LOL

 

[DesiLu]

I can see how it can be a bit on the "weird" or frustrating side; however, as others have said, before me, the cut is a HUGE part of what makes or breaks a diamond, in my personal opinion.

The cut can mean better (eye-clean) clarity and can even make the color look higher than what it might be.

Who cares what others think (re: carat weight/color/clarity)...I have yet to have someone pull my hand to see my rings and say, "Ohh, what''s the color and clarity on those?" All they see is a bright, eye-blinding rock, mostly thanks to its cut!

I''d *much* rather have a well-cut, eye-clean smaller diamond than a bigger peppered one or even just a dull one that looks like it needs a good cleaning *all* the time. And I think most Pricescopers will agree (if they haven''t already!).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 6/12/2007 5:26:12 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/12/2007 3:54:17 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
If it suits you to big note and impress (as is the wants in many sociotal groups) then simply use the knowledge you have gained by playing politician (rule # of politics; ask a question to diffuse a difficult question) and ask the people asking you what they know about diamond cut quality. Just keep asking them increasingly difficult questions until they realize they know didly squat about diamonds.
When they are laying on the floor begging for mercy, leave them writhing in agony, or give them the coup de grace (sp?). Pricescope.

been there done that got kicked out of the Jewelery store and asked not to come back.
Dinos don''t like it much. LOL

I mean friends, family and associates Storm

BTW - forgot the most important twist of the blade - try saying this iceebaby

"I guess the thing that I find amazing is that although this diamond is just below D Flawless, because of the way it is cut, it stops people in their tracks. Would any of you like to compare the sparkle of your diamonds to mine? We will check them in 3 or 4 different lighting types - under the table, outside in the daylight (shaded), in office lighting etc?

(Just make sure you keep your diamond clean in very hot water with a dash of ammonia and dish detergent and a scrub behind with a tooth brush)

 

[solange]

Garry made a great suggestion. However, I think it is incredibly rude to ask such questions. I have a large, beautiful I SI2 stone that is very well cut. No one has ever asked me the specifications about my ring. If they did, I would not waste my time going into details they would not understand and probably would not even be interested in knowing. I would just politely change the subject rather than try to give the kind of explanation that is required regarding cut.

My SI 2 is perfectly eye clean unless you look at it with a ten power loupe. If a stone is eye clean and does not have an imperfection that interferes with its beauty, I doubt that even a jeweler could tell the difference in clarity without a loupe.

Most people probably do not even know the true specifications of their stones unless they have a grading report from a reliable source such as the GIA. They know what the jeweler told them which may or may not be accurate. The only time I would enter into a discussion is if the person is actually looking for a ring and wants advice. In that case I would send them to Pricescope for an education onwhat to buy and give them the specs on my stone for guidance.