can you do 2 treatments to a stone without ruining it
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Stone-cold11
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Most color treatment are high energy radiation and then HTHP treatment. Depending on what type of clarity enhancement and how extensive the clarity treatment is but most clarity enhancement will probably not survive intact.
Stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ya. But OP specifically said clarity filled then color treated.
I know nothing about treating diamonds, so I just give saying I wanted it to be colored as well as clarity enhanced. I didnt mean an actual order...
So if I did wanna go this route, and try it out and see how it turns out, so I would have it clarity enhanced by a company like Yehuda or something, then I would need it colored.
Like as anyone here tried both treatments, ever? How did it turn out for you?
So if I did wanna go this route, and try it out and see how it turns out, so I would have it clarity enhanced by a company like Yehuda or something, then I would need it colored.
Like as anyone here tried both treatments, ever? How did it turn out for you?
sonnyjane
Ideal_Rock
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Do you already have a stone that you want treated? Sorry, this is just a kind of confusing prospect, since most people on these boards are careful to avoid treatment of any kind in a diamond. If you already have a stone that you're not crazy about and just want to play with it, I guess that's one thing, but I wouldn't purchase a stone for the purpose of making these alterations if you don't have one already.
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One can irradiate a diamond for color change and then have it glass-in-filled for clarity enhancement purposes. However, diamonds with major inclusions are not generally HTHP treated because the pressure and temperature blows them apart. SOme treatments are less prone to damage a diamond. Some are very likely to break weak stones. Some HTHP diamonds are also irradiated, annealed and glass filled. Hard to imagine that it is worth the effort and time, but technology often does what no one cares much about.
iota15
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Starz,
Can I ask you some honest questions that are probably in a few of our minds? What are you looking to do? If you give us a fuller picture, maybe we can really give you some help. This piece-meal advice is more likely to stray you down the wrong path than not.
Do you have one I3 stone that you want to play around with? Are you planning to sell it? Are you planning to sell a whole bunch of different stones of different clarities and colors? Cause all of these things would change how I'd advise you.
There are also greater implications of what happens with a treated stone - whether it's for personal use or for re-sale. There are legalities involved with selling them to someone else (ignorance of the law is never an excuse to the authorities), and certain difficulties with setting a treated stone into a piece of jewelry, etc. (which we can advise, and you can take or not - but at least you'd know).
On a whole, PS is a wealth of knowledge. It'd really help YOU if we knew more.
Can I ask you some honest questions that are probably in a few of our minds? What are you looking to do? If you give us a fuller picture, maybe we can really give you some help. This piece-meal advice is more likely to stray you down the wrong path than not.
Do you have one I3 stone that you want to play around with? Are you planning to sell it? Are you planning to sell a whole bunch of different stones of different clarities and colors? Cause all of these things would change how I'd advise you.
There are also greater implications of what happens with a treated stone - whether it's for personal use or for re-sale. There are legalities involved with selling them to someone else (ignorance of the law is never an excuse to the authorities), and certain difficulties with setting a treated stone into a piece of jewelry, etc. (which we can advise, and you can take or not - but at least you'd know).
On a whole, PS is a wealth of knowledge. It'd really help YOU if we knew more.
well I was planning on buying some I3 stones, like big ones like 5.00 carat ones,
then having them colored into fancy shades and filled for clarity.
Then once thats done I was gonna have them set into rings, and these would be for sale at this point. and I was going to turn this type of jewelry into a line that people could buy.
I know legally I would have to state to customers that the stones have been clarity and color enhanced, but other than that, what legal aspects would I have to face when selling a line of rings like that?
any help is great. thanks for offering
then having them colored into fancy shades and filled for clarity.
Then once thats done I was gonna have them set into rings, and these would be for sale at this point. and I was going to turn this type of jewelry into a line that people could buy.
I know legally I would have to state to customers that the stones have been clarity and color enhanced, but other than that, what legal aspects would I have to face when selling a line of rings like that?
any help is great. thanks for offering
Hello Starz,
One can certainly do two treatments to a stone if they are done in the right order, and they are the right treatments. As noted above subjecting any clarity enhanced diamond to heat (sometimes even in setting) can cause damage to the filler making the fractures obvious again, so the clarity enhancement must be done after any treatment that involves heat. As also noted above HPHT treatment is rarely done to diamonds with large fractures because the inability to maintain pressure within the fractures will cause graphite to form in those fractures causing the fractures to expand and likely break apart.
There are two treatments that do not subject a diamond to too much heat and they are irradiation and coating. If you irradiate a near colorless diamond the result is a green diamond. This type of treatment does not generate too much heat and a highly fractured stone is less likely to break (not a guarantee however). It is with subsequent heating that one can change the color of these irradiated diamonds to yellow. It is my understanding that this heating would probably not cause graphite to form in the fractures, but I would make sure by asking those who you are going to get the treatment from. In extremely rare cases a pink diamond can result from this heating, but it is probably less than one in a thousand. Thus through irradiation you may be able to create green and likely yellow diamonds, and then have them filled.
With coating my understanding is that there is little heat involved, but I would make sure with the coater beforehand. I have seen coated pink and blue diamonds, but please remember that this is a much less durable treatment than even clarity enhancement, so most people who deal in treated good do not deal with this type of treatment.
I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. I am always available for more questions.
Good luck.
One can certainly do two treatments to a stone if they are done in the right order, and they are the right treatments. As noted above subjecting any clarity enhanced diamond to heat (sometimes even in setting) can cause damage to the filler making the fractures obvious again, so the clarity enhancement must be done after any treatment that involves heat. As also noted above HPHT treatment is rarely done to diamonds with large fractures because the inability to maintain pressure within the fractures will cause graphite to form in those fractures causing the fractures to expand and likely break apart.
There are two treatments that do not subject a diamond to too much heat and they are irradiation and coating. If you irradiate a near colorless diamond the result is a green diamond. This type of treatment does not generate too much heat and a highly fractured stone is less likely to break (not a guarantee however). It is with subsequent heating that one can change the color of these irradiated diamonds to yellow. It is my understanding that this heating would probably not cause graphite to form in the fractures, but I would make sure by asking those who you are going to get the treatment from. In extremely rare cases a pink diamond can result from this heating, but it is probably less than one in a thousand. Thus through irradiation you may be able to create green and likely yellow diamonds, and then have them filled.
With coating my understanding is that there is little heat involved, but I would make sure with the coater beforehand. I have seen coated pink and blue diamonds, but please remember that this is a much less durable treatment than even clarity enhancement, so most people who deal in treated good do not deal with this type of treatment.
I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. I am always available for more questions.
Good luck.
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I think you are likely to be unhappy with the results of glass filling on your I3s. It's decently likely that the final stone will STILL look like an I3 when you've finished, although possibly a marginally better one (it will, of course, still *BE* an I3, the issue is whether you can gussy it up a bit). The filling process does a decent job of masking certain types of inclusions but it's far from all of them and the vast majority of I3's will still have things in them that will be untouched at the end. It will depend on the details of each and every stone but it's not a cooincidence that the sellers of these things carefuly choose I2's to try and make them look like I1's and then sell them as SI2's (or SI1's) at a 'discount'. When it's all over with I3's, you not only still have an I3, you have an I3*-CE that looks about the same. For most customers, this is not an improvement and certainly not something they would want to pay extra for. Whether or not this would constitute ruining the stone depends on your customer.
good to know.
So based on this type of project, what clarity and color of stones would you start at as a starting base? \
Like I1 or I2 at the lowest?
and does color matter if were coating them?
so it sounds like HPHT is out of the question if were clarity enhancing them as well
So based on this type of project, what clarity and color of stones would you start at as a starting base? \
Like I1 or I2 at the lowest?
and does color matter if were coating them?
so it sounds like HPHT is out of the question if were clarity enhancing them as well
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HPHT does not work well on low clarity stones so I would choose from VS2+ if that's what you're aiming for although there are other selection criteria as well. Popular with the glass fillers is to choose from I2's but the key word in that is that you must choose. Select the most likely 1% of the stones at your disposal by actually looking at them and there's a decent chance that you can find stones that will improve in appearance with glass filling. Selecting stones based on reported clarity alone, or even worse by low price and reported clarity combined, and I GUARANTEE that someone else will have already selected the most likely prospects leaving you with the dregs. The important step is not the sellers reporting of clarity, it's the application of your own expertise in deciding which ones to buy. Actually, the most important step is understanding and meeting your customer's interests and desires. You've asked a fair number of questions in this general area and you seem to consistently skip this one. If you don't have the customer base, or what your customers want to buy isn't what you're offering then this is all moot and we're talking about you building a collection, not a business.starz1|1300463894|2874638 said:
What color you paint them, if you decide to go this route, is a matter of what your customers want. As far as I can tell, coatings are available in just about any color you want.
I will take all of this into account if I do decide to go ahead with this.
I have to decide... is is worth making samples for the line.
I will select the best I2's and have them filled then color coated, as u guys suggested, if I do go ahead with this line.
But a line like this really dosent exist, right now, with big chunky stones, does it?
I wanted to create this line to fill a gap in the jewelry market.
I have to decide... is is worth making samples for the line.
I will select the best I2's and have them filled then color coated, as u guys suggested, if I do go ahead with this line.
But a line like this really dosent exist, right now, with big chunky stones, does it?
I wanted to create this line to fill a gap in the jewelry market.
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Best of luck with it. As with all business ventures, some terribly imporatant questions are:
Who are you going to sell to?
How are you going to find those people?
Why will they buy?
You might consider writing a business plan. Even if don't plan on involving a bank it's a very useful exercise in clarifying your thinking. 'Free' advice from a consumer diamond forum specializing in untreated natural diamonds is NOT an especially good source for business advice, even if that was product you were considering selling.
Yes, big low end stones mounted into jewelry are readilly available. Whether or not you can do a better job than your competition is an interesting question and I wouldn't venture to guess but you most definitely do have competition. The fact that you didn't know this is not a good sign for the prospects of your business.
Who are you going to sell to?
How are you going to find those people?
Why will they buy?
You might consider writing a business plan. Even if don't plan on involving a bank it's a very useful exercise in clarifying your thinking. 'Free' advice from a consumer diamond forum specializing in untreated natural diamonds is NOT an especially good source for business advice, even if that was product you were considering selling.
Yes, big low end stones mounted into jewelry are readilly available. Whether or not you can do a better job than your competition is an interesting question and I wouldn't venture to guess but you most definitely do have competition. The fact that you didn't know this is not a good sign for the prospects of your business.
I can't speak for anyone else here but this is most definitely NOT my suggestion. I was answering your questions about what is possible I've made no comment at all about what is desirable. I suggest you keep your money and find a different venture entirely, at least until you develop some expertise in the topic and have a far more thought out plan.starz1|1300465330|2874667 said:
stci
Ideal_Rock
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I know certain Pser will tell that I'm rude... but I can't resist to ask why buy scrap big diamond to resell it? If you want to bought I2 or I3 diamond for yourself I say ok but for resell I feel worry cause everybody knows it's not beautiful diamond and they will probably be sold to person who don't have enough money to buy a normal one no?
Starz, You know, I asked cause I want to protect those poor person who risk to lost hundreds of dollars in this type of adventure. With $1000 you can have a beautiful little diamond or a big scrap colored diamond. I know what they choose unfortunately cause they have dream like everyone.
How do you feel about that? I'm curious to know how emotional you are and if you think it's not important or what.
Excuse me, I'm not bad but I just want to know "why ".
Starz, You know, I asked cause I want to protect those poor person who risk to lost hundreds of dollars in this type of adventure. With $1000 you can have a beautiful little diamond or a big scrap colored diamond. I know what they choose unfortunately cause they have dream like everyone.
How do you feel about that? I'm curious to know how emotional you are and if you think it's not important or what.
Excuse me, I'm not bad but I just want to know "why ".
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