Bought Tiffany''s without Looking at GIA cert

[Obsessed]

Yes, I've made that mistake. All I knew was size, color, and clarity at the time of purchase. Through mail, I finally got the 'Tiffany' and GIA cert for the Lucida I got for my fiancee. I only knew that it was a 1.07 carat G VVS2. ( i have pictures a few posts below)

Here is what the rest of the stuff looks like on GIA.

Measurement 5.89 x 5.88 x 4.09
Depth 69.6%
Table 59%
Girdle slightly thick
culet none
polish EX
symmetry EX
Flourescence None

The 'tiffany' cert also adds:
crown angle 38degrees
pavillion depth 48.5%

Initially, I believe i feel relieved to see the EX/EX rating. Any comment on the rest of the stuff(other than that I paid too much

?

 

[Mara]

Sounds pretty! Unfortunately I don't know much about the fancy cuts...but you can try checking out www.gemappraisers.com and their DIY cut grading charts...I guess the Lucida may be termed a princess for all intents and purposes? Or Radiant? I don't know....the cut charts will not have the Lucida on there, but you can choose a similar shape, possibly princess to get an idea of where your stone may fall. It looks like a 2A which is a good cut on a scale from 1-4.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Congrats on your upcoming Engagement!!

 

[valeria101]

Lucida and princess cuts... No idea, but at least one thing rises Qs: Lucida is supposed to have a high crown (as per Tiffany's description of what makes the cut special) and princess cuts do not have this feature at all. No shape evaluated on the AGA chart is supposed to have a high crown as main distinctive feature: so I would not use the chart for this shape.

Since Tiffany did not care to publish the tolerance parameters for their branded cut (but do control the cutting process in exchange, I hope) no way to tell.

BTW: these proportions would rather fit an OMC, not a modern cut

Oh, ca we see a picture of the ring? Aside the "official" ones, there are not too many around

 

[Obsessed]

It has been very difficult evaluating the Lucida since there are no publications on ideal lucida proportions. Due to the high crown and deep pavillion, i am getting crappy ratings on the cut advisor. On a positive note, I am discovering that the spread on the Lucida is actually better than comparable fancy cuts.

Here are some measurements.

1.07 carat Lucida = 5.89 X 5.88 X 4.09 mm

1.07 carat princess
from Blue nile's signature collection = 5.81x5.56x3.80 mm

1.16 Sinature Asscher = 5.78x5.77x3.78 mm

1.07 Signature asscher = 5.81x5.75x3.84 mm

1.01 Radiant = 5.95x5.90x3.67 mm

I've looked at tons more and have come to the conclusion that radiant has a largest spread/carat weight followed by the Lucida, Asscher and then Princess. Yeah, the differences are miniscule, but since i am comparing my Lucida to 'ideal' measurements of other fancy cuts, i can safely say that the Lucida was cut to its ideal proportions.

I've bent my finacee's arms to take pictures right now... very soon i'll be posting the very first picture of a customer purchased Tiffany Lucida. Hopefully it will come out nice to (somewhat) justify the painful premium.

BTW, i seem to be the diamond obsessed one compared to my fiancee. She loves the ring Very much and everything but asks me why i am still on this forum 2 weeks after proposing. Is there something wrong with me? am i getting sick? Ha ha....

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is a reasonable approximation with a Flanders of what your stone might look like through an ideal-scope.

It is far better than most Lucida's I have seen.

 

[Obsessed]

Ok... blurry pictures. Can't get the macro function to work on camera. Other than that i have no more excuses. What do you all think?

 

[Mara]

Very nice...I think that the chunkier Lucida setting makes the diamond look bigger. Always nice!

Sparkly!




Congrats..it is easy to become diamond-obsessed.

 

[Rhino]

Too bad that stone is not loose. I'd offer a free appraisal on it just for the opportunity to run our analysis on it. I have not had the opportunity to examine Tiffany's Lucida diamond loose yet. Gary ... have you had this bugger in your hands loose for a Sarin scan or photos?

 

[Uncle Marty]

Hi all,
To the gentleman that made a purchase from Tiffany.
You did not pay too much. How can you compare your cost with the selling price of flea market sellers?
Many years from now your children and grandchildren will be proud to say that their pop or grandpop thought enough of grandma to buy her a Tiffany Diamond.
I owned my own jewelry store in Freeport NY for 32 years. In which I sold many Diamond and gemstone engagement rings.
What was really important during all those sales was that I told the truth about the gemstone I was selling. I enjoyed talking to people who were in love and wanting to fulfill their lovers desires.
Some of you seem to enjoy the study of diamonds and gemstones. In that case I would suggest you start attending G.I.A. and school yourself with the nuances and values of gemstones.
When I attended G.I.A. they did not discuss values, just identification.
I could drop many names of well known gemologists personally known to me but I do not want to bore you.
Most important when buying your diamond or gemstone, know the seller or use someone who is recommended by others.
One more thing....regarding appraisals.
When you get a grading report from either G.I.A., E.G.L.,P.G.S (in Chicago Il)or I.G.I. understand that the grading of Diamonds is not an exact science. All the labs have been known to change their opinion of a gemstone grading from time to time. The identification of the stone should not be changed but the grading may be changed. It is generally accepted that some labs are more exacting then another.
Appraisals for values should only be done by a qualified appraiser who understands the rules and laws governing appraisals. Check that your appraiser is a member of the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers (N.A.J.A.), International Society of Aprraisers (I.S.A.)or any other recognized jewelry appraisal society that periodically gives tests based upon new laws.
Not every jewelry is an appraiser. Even if they have sold Diamonds for many years. Jewelers who attempt to do appraisals without current legal qualifications are placing themselves and you in jeopardy. Insurance companies will accept their written appraisals until there is a loss. Often when an appraisal is done by a unqualified appraiser there may be a problem collecting from the insurance company. I have known of many problems. Understand this... a loss of a diamond is not the same as a loss of a loved one. A loved one cannot be replaced. The jewelry can be replaced or something very similar. Do not allow any appraiser to over value any jewelry item you buy. Thatonly makes the insurance company richer and yhour poorer by paying a higher premium when it is not necessary.
If you any questions please feel free to contact me.

Uncle Marty




I sold my store location 2 years ago. Took a long awaited rest.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi Uncle Marty. Welcome aboard. It's always nice to have another professional add to the knowledge on the forum.

I agree with everything you said except for the following statement:

-----------
You did not pay too much. How can you compare your cost with the
selling price of flea market sellers?
-----------

How do you know this individual didn't pay too much when he didn't mention how much he paid?

Is the phrase "flea market sellers" just a euphemism to illustrate the power of the Tiffany name in the marketplace, or are you referring to vendors commenting on this topic?

If it's the first, I would agree. If the second, I would ask that you stick around a bit and learn a little more about these "flea market sellers". For that matter, Tiffany's could learn a thing or two from them.

 

[Uncle Marty]

Rich,
Re Tiffany; Any company that has the where withall to buy a partnership in a diamond mine in Canada and has the knowledge to set up a diamond cutting plant in Canada I would think is on the cutting edge.
It is not necessary to know the dollars that the Tiffany diamond actually cost,all that is necessary
is knowing it was bought from Tiffany and it is hallmarked inside the ring.
In my opinion price alone does not make value.

I think it is more important to educate the consumers about lab grown diamonds. I am quoting Tom Chatham in Professional Jeweler dated Sept.2003 where he was quoted "he expects to offer 40,000 carats per year". Those expert appraisers should study how to identify synthetic diamonds.
I wonder will synthetic diamonds enter the market much like cultured pearls and be accepted as the same. Gemesis is now calling their synthetic diamonds "cultured Diamonds" and it is accepted as an accepted nomenclature by the FTC.
Therefore will the consumers be accepting of "Cultured Diamonds" much the same way as Cultured Pearls.
Now we both know that American producers of synthetic diamonds ask the sellers to sign statements that they will not misrepresent those diamonds. And in some cases the girdles will be lazered as Gemesis or whatever. However will our overseas partners in our business accept and sell those diamonds without polishing off the girdles and remove the notations?
Those of you who continue to study the price points and profit motive of resellers (of course you know we do not have diamond mines in our back yards) and have to buy them somewhere, should start by investing in diamonds for resale. Build up a port folio and wait until someone wants your diamond and is willing to give you a profit.
When the buyer denies you a profit because they can buy it on a list somewhere (and the seller did not invest his money building an inventory)and the proposed seller tries to switch you to another diamond or gemstone (because it is out on memo somewhere else) when it is illegal to do so and you find out you never have the right diamond at the right price, cry somewhere else.
Diamond inventories are perilous. When I owned Marquise and Pear Shape,Princess cuts became popular. I still have a Marquise over 2 ct which I would like to sell and I sold my jewelry store 2 years ago. No one guaranteed my selling of the diamond. I might be forced to bury it again in the ground and hope it will grow or change size (said with tongue in cheek ).
I do understand that all potential buyers want " a bargain". But at whose expense.

More later....I have hot tea waiting for me and do not want it to get cold, even if it will be cheaper.

Uncle Marty

 

[Obsessed]

Mara,
thank you for your generous compliments!

Uncle Marty,
thank you for your reassurance! Because i share your view about the uniqueness of a tiffany ring, I am happy with my purchase and its role in my recent engagement.

I do believe that I did not pay too much. If I only consider the quality of the ring itself, yes I agree that it was expensive. But the truth is that my fiancee was fully involved in the decision, and she opted for the smaller stone on a genuine lucida setting... its funny because, she doesn't want anyone(except for her mother and one best friend), to know that it is a Tiffany diamond. She loves the fact that she has the original design that is countlessly emulated. I am thankful that she feels that way... but since i am the one who tends to be more of a show off, I wish i had gotten a bigger stone to impress people

. But in the end, I am very happy for having proposed to her with HER dream ring.

 

[Obsessed]

e Tiffany; Any company that has the where withall to buy a partnership in a diamond mine in Canada and has the knowledge to set up a diamond cutting plant in Canada I would think is on the cutting edge."

Uncle Marty,
you seem to have fresh information that didn't exist on this forum. Can you elaborate a bit more on what you know about Tiffany and their diamond operation? I always believed they were somehow different.

 

[Uncle Marty]

Too late at night.

Just wrote a long explanation. It was disallowed.

Big Brother is watching.

Uncle Marty

 

[Mara]

Uncle Marty...it may have exceeded the posting limit? Possibly re-try with shorter information? Posts on Pscope are not censored...

 

[Uncle Marty]

Hi Mara,
How many words am I permitted ?
I sometimes (always) get long winded.
Cannot always get to the point in a few words.

Will try tomorrow again in the AM.

Have to get my sleep now.

How many people are in this chat room ?

Can we take attendance.

Uncle Marty

 

[Mara]

There are thousands of Pricescope members...depends on the time of day how many are on...maybe 60 during busier times of day. Also many anonymous, unregistered users who just read.




Anyhow, the posts let you post quite alot...so your post must have been VERY long. I don't know the limits, but I can type quite a lot and have never had a problem, so maybe split up the post into 2 or 3.




Good luck!

 

[Uncle Marty]

Mara,
Thanks for the information.

Sweet dreams.

Uncle Marty of course

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
I think it is more important to educate the consumers about lab grown
diamonds.
-----------

I agree, and there's been a lot of that going on here in the forum. If you do a search under "Gemesis", "Apollo" or "synthetic diamonds" you'll pull up a plethora of information.

 

[Griffin]

>You did not pay too much. How can you compare your cost with the selling price of flea market sellers?


I think the implication is pretty clear. Tiffany's proponents regularly assert on here that anyone that ISN'T Tiffany's is just a pathetic second-rate hack holding on to the deranged notion that they have any right justify what they do as business instead of fraud.
Clearly all these charlatans are doing is shamelessly ripping off people too stupid or brainwashed to understand they are passing off fake e-rings, as they are clearly not REAL e-rings since they don't come from Tiffany's.

Tiffany's should lobby Congress to get these counterfeiters shut down. Maybe get injunctions against those who brazenly imitate them by making "rings" - clearly a breach of Tiffany's exclusive right.

Hell, they'd have enough public support...

 

[strmrdr]

Uncle Marty,
Welcome to pricescope.

Look around this site a little and you will find that were not a typical diamond site.

The panel of experts and informed consumers here are top notch.
If we want an answer from someone who owns a diamond cutting company, there is more than one that posts here.
If we want answers from someone who cuts some of the best-cut diamonds there are ,we have that too.
If we want answers from the some of the foremost researchers on diamonds particularly in the area of cut we have that covered too.
If you want to see people endlessly argue over minute difference in some of the best-cut diamonds well that happens almost daily.
If you want to find people that are critical of a lot of the diamond industry practices you will find that too. :}

To solve your posting problem as there is a time limitation and a size limit it is best to compose your posts in wordpad or notepad and copy and paste them here.
It is what I do.

Now your probably wondering what my stake in this game is well im just a computer geek who happens to love gemstones including but to a lesser extent diamonds but doesn’t like a lot of things about the industry.

 

[Indescisive]

It sounds magnificent! I just bought a princess cut (1.07 F VS2) with a 59% table and 74% depth... it was the only one I saw with that small a table (all the others I looked at were around 70%), and it was definately the most beautiful! Congrats!

 

[Nicrez]

Hey Griffin...cool your jets!

I think Uncle Marty (please correct me if I am wrong) is most likely a big fan of Tiffany's of the old world name it has, and the genuine quality and prestige it had many years ago. Perhaps he isn't familiar with the newer stores who carry quality goods for all types of suppliers and siteholders. Sometimes when you are in a certain corner of your field, you don't get to see all the changes.




Unlce Marty, welcome to Price Scope, and I know you will find a lot of interesting articles, tidbits and fun ways to help consumers and share experiences with them on their route to the perfect diamond for the one they love. I think there are a few general trends to be aware of:




1) People are looking for size and cut quality above all else in general. Society has made bigger better, and of course, most people here like an IDEAL cut for their budget to get the most sparkle. Qulaity and trust are issues, but they are wiling to now deviate from large companies and deal with trustworthy smaller vendors or online retailers who can help.




2) Tiffany's no longer has their ring making business as a major part of their business. Like any other successful company, they have grown and to the point of personalization of each jewelery piece by a Tiffany's jeweler, has lead way to profit margins, so they have out sourced many of their diamond cutting, ring making and jewelery desing business to other people. This forum has found evidence of many items sold outside of Tiffany's with similar or close quality and appearance or sometimes even the same vendor who supplies to Tiffany's. They do own patents on their Lucida stone, as it is a hexoganal cut (when square) and has unique angles and percentages. This is not disputed. Again, some people have shifted priorities as history, heirlooms, and branding to size, cut, and cost.




3) On-line vendors have become more knowledgeable and saavy to the descriminating consumer. With the advent of the internet, global sales of diamonds can be found in all sizes and qualities of diamonds. E-Bay has become a secondary and primary market for many diamonds, as well, but the major on-line sales have been generated by now trusted names such as Blue Nile and Mondera. Every year more and more people venture to new sellers looking for quality and competitive price and more and more retailers are being added to the trusted list...see some vendors here at Price Scope!




4) Jewlers and retailers are now contending with more informed consumers in an age of information where people want to know the exact diameter of a stone or a Sarin report to determin angles...Some jewelers are not even knowledgeable enough nowadays to answer such questions, or resent clients with such knowledge thinking they will be too knowledgeable to buy at their prices the qualities they carry. Plus the on-line market has caused lower overhead for retailers, so their competitive prices are something jewlers who own businesses need to compete with, as well as the amount of information on-line retailers give to their customers. On-line retailers are cheaper, well stocked, and connected to stock piles, and they are starting to understand customer service is worth the effort. Hopefully, jewelers with stores (called Brick & Mortars here or B&M) will soon follow. Many have. Many B&Ms have opene stores on-line to compete, and do so successfully.




Again, welcome to PriceScope and we hope you can lend us some good years of experience on your part and all the wisdom you have collected those years!!!

 

[Nicrez]

Hey obsessed...that's a 1.07?! It looks huge! It's so pretty!!! I LOVE IT!!!

Does your fiancee have tiny fingers? I saw the Lucida several times too, and trying it on, I needed a much larger rock for the same look she has...do I have huge fingers?!

 

[Rhino]

Marty from Freeport? Do you attend the GIA Alumni meetings? I think I know who you are! Welcome aboard Marty. This is Jonathan from Good Old Gold out of Massapequa Park.

 

[Uncle Marty]

Hi Griffin,
Let us keep Hell out of our conversations. Although I do agree that some jewelers are Devilish at times we cannot paint us all RED.

I was a B&M jeweler for 32 years in Freeport NY.
I am not related to Toffanys in any way. I do not have stock in the company, nor do I gain anything by suggesting that a purchase from Tiffany is a more valued purchase. BUT, if you do not wear blinders try this experiment.
Walk into any room that has a group of people and casually mention you bought a piece of Sterling Silver (etc.) from Tiffany they all would be impressed.
Call any retail jeweler that buys from the public and tell them you are interested in selling anything from Tiffany, the jeweler will show a sparked interest.
In my opinion, there are other jewelers that can and do make quality jewelry but the point is the name Tiffany conjures up a quality item sought after by all but Mr. Griffin
More next post.
Uncle Marty

 

[Uncle Marty]

Hi Nicrez et al,

I want to thank all of you lovely people who have welcomed me to your diamond and jewelry chat room.
I make no promises except to say I am opinionated (who is not)but am willing to learn.
I have been in the jewelry business my entire life (70 years ) and I am still learning.
I will not state my credentials because I am told too long a message and it will disappear.

NOW, let the words flow.....


I will try to answer 1 of your paragraph statements at a time so I do not waste my time, which now is limited (time to take my vitamins (must keep my strength) and eat my breakfast.
Yes, I do value the Tiffany name, and the Cartier name and other fine jewelry names that have tried to maintain a quality level. Did they make mistakes, of course, who doesn't.

Flea Market operators selling jewelry have their place in our society and so do online sellers.

When I owned a jewelry store, paid the rent, insurance, and held an inventory which was costly to me, I did resent the online jewelers eating into my business because I thought they had very little expense and capitalized on my working to support the industry (advertising and news letters).
Some online sellers went out of business because they wrongly thought that price alone (lower that the B&M sellers)would sell their product.
I have watched many of them fall to the wayside.

Some were wholesale Diamond dealers selling using a ficticious name (trying to hide from the retailers that supported them all the many years).
What happened to honesty ? What happened to integrity? If they wanted so badly to become retailers even on the Internet why did they hide behind these phoney names.
If they thought we made too much money at retail, why hide. Why not show us, who you are so we can stop supporting our competition.
It might interest some of you to know that many of the ?wholesalers who did become retailers on the Internet are now crying about the new system from the DTC (DeBeers) of Dealers of Choice.
The DTC wants cutters and wholesalers to join up with retailing chains and brand their Diamonds.
How ironic.

More later....

Have to go now.

Uncle Marty

 

[Obsessed]

----------------
On 3/1/2004 10:40:16 AM Nicrez wrote:


Hey obsessed...that's a 1.07?! It looks huge! It's so pretty!!! I LOVE IT!!!

Does your fiancee have tiny fingers? I saw the Lucida several times too, and trying it on, I needed a much larger rock for the same look she has...do I have huge fingers?!

----------------

Nicrez, thank you for your compliments. Yes, I do admit my fiancee has a 4.25-4.5ish finger. the ring is sized to a 4.5 and it is a little lose. I got away with a 1 carat because of her petite size overall(5feet 95pounds)

. At the same time, the Lucida seemed to have a chunkier substantial look compared to similar weight princesses and emeralds we were looking at. May be there is some magic in the distinctive high crown....

 

[Giangi]

Hey obsessed, it looks gorgeous!

Very nice choice... Nothing is quite like the real thing!

Just one question... Is that 38.5 crown measured in degrees or %? I would think the former..