Asscher (square emerald) Quest

[Mara]

I wanted to bump this because I am still trying to learn more about Asschers...and had a Q.

From what I gathered, light leakage in an asscher, similar to that last STUNNING asscher picture that Strm posted could be desirable if it is symmetrical and matching the step pattern? aka you need some of that leakage to create the darker step spots that make it look deeper? Am I getting this? Because if you look at the IS image of the one Strm posted last and compare it to the side by side image of the actual stone, the white leakage areas look like the steps...and to me that asscher looks ''deeper'' than the one your sister got, Hest. The IS image of your sister''s stone is almost all red with spotty black, rather than having a clear symmetrical step pattern with scint/leakage. Are we talking scint (aka looking for black in IS) or leakage creating steps (aka white steps in IS). In the last image that Strm posted, the white looks like leakage, not black like scint, so this would be desirable in creating the deep step pattern? (am I rambling?)

It''s funny because I find I am drawn much more to the stones with smaller windmills, out of those 3 that ana posted, I love that one in the middle. I feel like large windmills disrupt the ''patttern'' more and the more stones i see (images of course), the more this corroborates...does that mean anything when the windmills are smaller?

 

[Hest88]

Mara, are you sure you can't move up your asscher timetable?

Okay, two things:

1) I know what Strmr is saying, but...well. If you saw my sister's stone in person you'd see very distinct, crisp windmill patterns, and octagons within octagons all the way to the core. (You know how most have square cores? Hers is really octagonal.) I think the larger than ideal table just creates a broad flash when the stone is photographed so you can't appreciate it from a photo. It's like an EC---a well-cut stone will give both great light return and that mesmerizing pattern. You don't want to deliberately cut a majorly leaky stone!

2) If I'm understanding what you mean by smaller windmills I'm thinking that the more facets the better for you. Have you seen a RA in person yet? Because *that's* where you find skinny windmills just because you have more facets.

 

[Mara]

Date: 4/7/2005 6:26

3 PM
Author: Hest88
Mara, are you sure you can''t move up your asscher timetable?

Hmm well you never know Hest!

WF does have that trade-in policy and as my avatar shows, my ring looks fabulous with an asscher!

I have seen the images of RAs which I do love, but I won''t want to pay that premium. So I''d have to find a stone with slightly thinner windmills that would make me feel that miles deep look with the steps and still have fab light return...it seems VERY HARD to find a beautiful asscher!! Definitely more so than rounds.

 

[Mara]

see to me i like the look of this particular stone in terms of the steps and the ''fall into'' look but the windmills are almost nonexistent. what does thinner windmills DO in terms of PERFORMANCE of the stone or is it really just a preference thing?

specs are:

Depth: 72.4
Table: 64
Crown %: 15.3
Pavilion %: 53.8
Girdle: Thick
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: No
Measurements: 6.00-5.84X4.23
Length/Width: 1.03

So what do you guys think of this particular stone? I know it''s not truely square, but the image looks so great, table and depth seem right?

 

[Mara]

and here is the IS..interestingly enough you see a dark scint area in the middle table area, is that a bad thing? or a good thing? educate me on what the IS is saying and what thoughts are...?

 

[Hest88]

This is my interpretation of the stone. But keep in mind I''m not Garry.

I''m not really fond of that black area in the stone. I''d bet it''s quite a sparkler, from the IS, but that black area shows a greater depth that would be nice is it had enough facets to create contrast, but not if it instead just makes a black window. In any EC you want a nice contrasting dark and light pattern, not just a vast area of darkness.

I don''t know if windmills do anything in terms of light return. Personally I want that octagonal stop sign look because that to me distinguishes an asscher from a square emerald. That pinwheel creates the coveted spiraling effect. Not that a very square square EC isnt'' lovely, but then why are we agonizing over windmills? Why not just use Dave Atlas''s EC chart, picture what a fine EC squashed down would look like, and be done with it?

 

[Mara]

here's another one that looks good to me visually. does it look better than the last one?

here are specs.

Depth: 70.2
Table: 65
Girdle: Thin-Medium
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None
Fluorescence: No
Measurements: 7.60-7.51X5.27
Length/Width: 1.01

this is an F IF from WF so now way would i ever buy it, but from a visual perspective, i think it looks great. am i getting it?

 

[Mara]

and here is IS. seems more consistent, no super big black or white areas? well except for those few...hehe. however i think the image itself looks better than IS? is it not realistic to use an IS to gauge an asscher?

 

[Hest88]

Oh yeah, I like those better, Mara. See how the "rays" shoot white into the black window all the way to the center? Gives a much nicer contrast.

Garry says you can use an IS to judge light return with an asscher just as you would any other stone. My sister''s is certainly very bright and sparkly as a step cut is concerned, and Garry gave a thumbs up for her IS image.

 

[Hest88]

Hey Mara, you just made a light bulb go off in my head as I was answering your last post and staring at the IS image. Maybe those wide cut corners are *critical* to creating a pleasing, spiraling, windmill effect because of the way they contribute to cutting a wide swath into the center? What do you think? Just throwing out a new theory. Am I bonkers?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/7/2005 7:49:56 PM
Author: Hest88
Hey Mara, you just made a light bulb go off in my head as I was answering your last post and staring at the IS image. Maybe those wide cut corners are *critical* to creating a pleasing, spiraling, windmill effect because of the way they contribute to cutting a wide swath into the center? What do you think? Just throwing out a new theory. Am I bonkers?

Nope not bonkers the size of the clipped corners determin the outer width of the windmills if they are carried into the stone wider cuts == wider windmills.
The arent always carried in however so its not a hard and fast rule.
IE: the second step of the windmill is a lot smaller than the outer giving a wide cut corner but narrow windmills.
Sometimes you will see the opposite but not often. Where the second step is bigger than the outer.

 

[strmrdr]

See where the facets miss lining up (in red) at the windmill/outer junction and the steps below also.
This causes the dark area (in blue)
The angles arent right for light return to match the other side.
The IS image shows the same thing but its harder to see.

 

[Mara]

So strm...would that be an okay asscher, a good looking asscher or one to entirely pass on?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/8/2005 12

1:52 AM
Author: Mara
So strm...would that be an okay asscher, a good looking asscher or one to entirely pass on?

Id pass if there was better avaiable otherwise it would be worth a look in person to see how noticable it is when actualy looking at it.
It might be ok in person.
That is the tough part deciding how much of the faults in the pattern are actualy bare eye visible and its a question that isnt easy to answer without having seen a lot of them in person.
But it is important to use it to narrow the field.
With asschers eyeballs are critical and everyone will see them slightly different I think.
Im pretty sure Id see the fault in the pattern because my brain/eyes are wired that way.
Its sort of like how color and clarity tolerance varies from one person to another I think patterns are the same way.

 

[Hest88]

I completely disagree with Strmr. This is a gorgeous asscher with a gorgeous pattern, and the IS shows a very nice light return. I would choose this one ten time over GOG one in the other thread.

 

[strmrdr]

Hest88,
This one I think we can agree on :}
Id take this ones pattern over the other gog one and the one above.
But we still gota disagree about them.

 

[valeria101]

Wind or no wind... this one passed by WF a bit ago and left a gaping void in my gem-loving soul

Perfect optics too !

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/8/2005 1:32:21 PM
Author: valeria101
Wind or no wind... this one passed by WF a bit ago and left a gaping void in my gem-loving soul

Perfect optics too !

I like that one too val but its not an asscher.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/8/2005 1:34:52 PM
Author: strmrdr

I like that one too val but its not an asscher.

Yeah... whatever. It's been a couple of centuries since odd step cuts have been called "Asscher". Even if triangular ! So... it's a square step cut, almost baguette, very Deco, no name

As far as I know, the old asscher has already dissapeared due to advancements in cuting technology many decades ago... And the new brand seems to live just fine amid miriad modified square emerald cuts that cannot afford to waste that much material to copy the lead.

Since "asscher" is the one and only marker of success among step cuts, why not call all nice ones "Asscher". As long as the pattent has a slightly different name (RA) and the owners are cool with it... It seems allot less "cool" to give the name to unappealing stuff just to add some good vibe in aestetic void - some of these generics would have rather been princess cuts (no table & steps on pavilion = disaster, IMO), others would definitely deserve some recognition, one way or another. Let 'em have it

Just my rambling...

 

[Hest88]

Strmdr, I think we can both agree on the last one you posted!

 

[cymbrie]

First off, thank you to all for your wonderfully informative and often humorous postings. I am a newbie to the Pricescope Forums and have enjoyed many hours perusing the numerous topics. My fiancé and I are recently engaged, but still in the process of researching the different options for an engagement ring (being the avid gem lover that I am, he wanted me to have a say and choice in the process :^).

At this point I am pretty much set on the cut and setting (some of which was determined after perusing this site). The Asscher cut is absolutely the one that "speaks" to me. I compared it side by side (in person) with comparable cut/size/color square radiant and princess cut diamonds and though it does not have the same sparkle as the afore-mentioned cuts something about the mesmeric "hall of mirrors" effect so enchants me. As many of you mentioned, it is difficult to find a good source for well cut stones outside of the Royal Asscher Company. Unfortunately, Royal Asschers'' while stunning are much more expensive. I have heard of (through this forum) and in my own research three vendors outside of RA that seem to be the best for providing quality Asschers and expertise for such a niche market cut. They are NiceIce, Good Old Gold and Engagement Rings Direct. Does anyone have any preferences or suggestions for vendors specializing in Asscher cut stones? Thank you in advance and I look forward to your responses.

Cheers,
Cym

 

[decodelighted]

Hi Cymbrie ...
I''d suggest you might want to start your own "thread" or topic about your particular search! But if we can lure folks to this old thread by responding ... you might have luck here as well!

Good Old Gold was helpful when I was looking for an Asscher, though I found my stone through another channel before I visited their store as planned.

They (SE or Asschers) seem to be a curious breed that you need to see to pick. If you don''t select a vendor you can visit personally, at least find one that has a good reputation & good photos!

Looking forward to following YOUR quest - here or in a new thread!

 

[Kaleigh]

Yes I second starting your own thread cymbrie. I bought a gorgeous asscher from GOG this summer. Start a new thread and I''ll tell you all about it!!

 

[mrssalvo]

I''ve seen a bunch of gorgeous asscher''s from GOG here including Kaleigh''s. Mark at Engagementringsdirect has come up with some pretty amazing stones too.
I third starting your own thread