Another Diamond-Optimization Problem...

[tonyc2387]

...from the newest newbie (

). So, let''s cut to the chase:

-Budget: $4k total (smaller, but have BIG engagement plans)
-ct: .75-1.0
-color: G-I
-clarity: VS is ideal (20/15 eyes, and I''m picky), but I''d go for an SI without defects in the table
-cut: help! see below.
-setting: tiffany solitaire (her fave), prefer platinum for TCO/lifetime

So, I''m asking for some assistance from those who have seen many more diamonds than I have... tons of forum browsing, vendor searching, shopping, and talking to friends, coworkers, etc., has left me in just a confused state as when I started. The good news, I suppose, is that I have a rather large window to work in before I need to pull the trigger.

Anyway, let me address what is likely your first concern: no, a $4k, 1ct, G VS (GIA) rock doesn''t exist (yes, I''m from earth, but I''m allowed to hope, right??

). That being said, 90ish points is good enough, as the cost/benefit around that magical 1.0 number just plummets. Also, anything above .75 looks great on her finger, though she personally likes the nice round 1.0 number (

).

Here''s where I''m hung up... cut. For the most part, .75-.83ish ACA/H&A/Sig. Ideal/etc rocks exist within the price range, and fit the rest of the parameters. From my reading, a couple threads stand out:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-day-at-tiffanys-with-the-i-scope.69733/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-help-retail-question-p.125675/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-first-article.24045/
-and another one I can''t find the link to currently.

Basically what I''m getting is that: ACA/H&A/etc *typically* look better, but it''s up to the viewer, whether or not they can detect the symmetry, and even ''the experts'' don''t do side-by-side comparisons with ACAs & AGS0''s. Personally, I can pick it up darn near right away in almost any online photo, and I prefer the look... but I haven''t yet been able to get my paws on one in real life. About the only rocks I have seen IRL are whatever (genericmallchain) have in stock, since that''s all we''ve had time to look at. I remain less than impressed with what I''ve seen... sure, it''s shiny, but nothing has knocked me off my feet in the stores (where, if anywhere, they should be). My girl seems to be somewhat less picky, as she was impressed by almost everything she saw (except for when she saw an I next to an E and went ohheckno... and that was IGI). What I''m mostly concerned about is, well... every other day she''ll be wearing it. I think over time she''d be happier with a .8x point diamond that''s exceptionally well cut, and just catches her eye randomly (or frequently

) in all lighting, and makes her go "wow, that''s pretty", as opposed to sacrificing 3 C''s to shoehorn the magical 1ct into my budget. (Whether or not I''m right about this is a totally different issue...)

So... for you folks that have seen or own an ACA/H&A/etc, is this the sort of effect you get from it? Is ACA/H&A just truly overkill for what I''m looking for, especially considering overall size? If so, what sort of minimum cut grades/HCA should I be keeping my eyes out for to achieve that effect? Also, are there any other pointers for tweaking color/clarity?

A couple loose ends...
-Any pointers on white gold vs palladium vs platinum? I''ve gotten recommendations to go platinum, just so I won''t have to deal with re-plating (she abhors yellow gold, so it''d likely be somewhat frequent), and for a tiffany-style solitaire it seems like the price difference would pay for itself in roughly only 5 years. Haven''t heard much about palladium, though.
-Concerns about buying online vs local... I think I''m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have no reservations about buying online from good vendors, but it seems like, in general, having any work done locally voids excellent warranties on online stuff, and I''m somewhat resistant to the idea of FedEx''ing the ring around every time it needs something (less an issue for platinum I suppose). However, I''m likely moving relatively soon, so there''s little reason to buy local. Any thoughts on long-term support from online vendors?
-Girl and I have been together for the better part of 6 years (HS sweethearts). So yes, about that time...
-On a COMPLETELY unrelated note... anyone know of any fantastic travel agents / travel sites / travel deals, specifically to the Maui area?

Thanks in advance for any (direct) help... and thanks for all the help you''ve already provided. From looking around, there''s one heck of an impressive community here. I''ve learned so much from reading tons of discussions, and it''s truly amazing how much help you guys have provided to anyone who drops in and asks... phenomenal, even, considering I''ve never seen a bad word spoken _anywhere_.

I only hope that, by the end of this, I''ll be able to offer some shred of advice in turn. At the very least, if things work out, I should be able to offer up a good engagement story...

 

[Regular Guy]

Tony,

Sounds like you''ve got a lot going on there. I don''t have a travel agent to recommend, but I''ve got a heck of a plumber.

Anyway, I think an option like this one may be right about where you want to be.

Sometimes the options available simplify the rest of your considerations.

Consider making the search by cut database your friend.

Best,

 

[tyty333]

Date: 11/3/2009 7:23:02 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Tony,

Sounds like you''ve got a lot going on there. I don''t have a travel agent to recommend, but I''ve got a heck of a plumber.

Anyway, I think an option like this one may be right about where you want to be.

Sometimes the options available simplify the rest of your considerations.

Consider making the search by cut database your friend.

Best,

Is it $4k for just the stone? (or does that include the setting?)

Like RegGuy said, if you use the search by cut database you will find several well cut stones around .80.

 

[tonyc2387]

Ira,

haha, yes, I've done my homework and it feels like I'm at the proverbial "thiiiiiis close" point.

I saw that diamond, and it's quite beautiful... definitely right around the range I was strongly considering. But I was wondering if ACA is really worth it considering budget and size goals. Here's a perfect example of the type of rock I'm torn between.

For all those keeping track at home,
Rock #1: WF ACA .818ct G VS2 ID/ID (AGS) ... HCA 1.2
. Depth %: 61.7
. Table %: 54.9
. Crown Angle: 34.4
. Crown %: 15.4
. Star : 55
. Pavilion Angle: 40.8
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 5.99-6.03X3.71

Rock #2: JA "Ideal" .91ct I VS1 EX/EX (GIA) ... HCA 2.6
Depth: 62.0%
Table: 56.0%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown %: 15.50
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion %: 43.00
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.19*6.22*3.85

Prices are within spitting distance of one another, and both are within budget.

Rock #2 gets me much closer to the "magical 1.0" and is by all means still very well cut, but I'd also be sacrificing a little in color. So, between these two, here's where I stand:
1. Is the ACA pedigree of rock #1 really going to be worth it in the long run?
2. If not, is HCA 2.6 still darn good enough, considering it gets me close to that 1ct? or
3. If I'm not going to notice the ACA difference, should I still look to keep HCA under some upper bound less than 2.6?

**Side note: I know no one can answer for me or for my girl which we'll think is the prettier stone, or for that matter, neither can we without seeing both. What I'm really interested in is, in your (collective) general experience, do the ACA/similar diamonds have that certain je ne sais quoi that keeps on impressing day in, day out... or does it really take a trained eye to notice the difference, and I'd be fine with a 'lesser' ideal/excellent cut?

One last thing... anyone have any experience with the Littman Jewelers mall chain? They're having what they call their $1M sale or something, where they bring in $1M of loose diamonds. The sales rep there pulled a few in ahead of the sale for me based on what I'm looking for, but I'm still generally on the "no" side of the fence for mall chains (don't feel like paying for overhead/markup/etc) but on the plus side, they have tons of locations. Thoughts?

 

[Regular Guy]

Sorry, reasonable questions...I''ll leave to you. Not easily enough apples to apples here to make things obvious.

- I''d like it closer to .9, sure
- I''d also like the G
- The 2.6 might have me just throw it out, but you could ask for an idealscope and hope for the best (but if just their designation of ideal brought it in for you...not enough).
- If you go to the JA site and include both True Hearts and ideal...you get over 100 options. Too much for me.
- Just constrain for H&A, not the same as ACA, but it''s something, and you get one that''s AGS and over .9, but it''s also $3900...a different price point.
- also, the VS2 is sort of sweet, though relative. Visually, you don''t pay more for the VS1 you don''t need, but my wife would like it, because the first diamond I gave her was a VS1, and she remembered that.

Choices. Great fun.

With appreciation,

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 11/3/2009 12:13:36 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Choices. Great fun.

Tell me about it!

Perhaps here's a better example, trading ACA, color, clarity, but still winding up with an HCA 0.8 and a darn nice ideal scope:
http://www.whiteflash.com/premium_select_round/Premium-Select-Round-cut-diamond-1987251.htm#

IS is attached. As far as I can tell from the image and grading report, it'd be eye clean enough to satisfy... and it hits .9ct

**Edit: Any thoughts on dropping to J color? I know I said she could see I, but only really next to E. Also, from what I've seen, great cuts in white settings are much more forgiving to color. I ask because dropping to J seems to be a great way to get weight up while keeping clarity and ACA cuts... examples include this and this. (I know they're a little above what I'm looking to spend, but I'd do it to get the weight up and keep her

)

 

[tyty333]

For me, I would go down in color and up in size. I''m not color sensitive though. The idealscope on the .9 looks
good (to me - wait for some others input). Make sure it is eye-clean to your standards. Its unfortunate you cant
get closer to the 1.0 mark.

 

[decodelighted]

Maybe its just me but I'd prefer a proposal in the living room with a 1ct stone than a proposal in Maui with a .8-.9.

You can always go for your Honeymoon!

If she's color sensitive @ "I", don't go to "J" -- it won't be "mind clean" to her no matter what it looks like.


ETA: But if you're set on Maui ... Travelzoo.com.

 

[tyty333]

Date: 11/3/2009 1:42:40 PM
Author: decodelighted
Maybe its just me but I''d prefer a proposal in the living room with a 1ct stone than a proposal in Maui with a .8-.9.

You can always go for your Honeymoon!

If she''s color sensitive @ ''I'', don''t go to ''J'' -- it won''t be ''mind clean'' to her no matter what it looks like.


ETA: But if you''re set on Maui ... Travelzoo.com.

I definitly agree here. Much rather have the nice 1 carat at home then a .8-.9 in Hawaii. Save Hawaii for a fantastic
honeymoon when you have more bucks!

 

[Laila619]

Welcome to PS!

My thoughts:

I would go down to maybe I color and go up in size a bit (we women seem to love the magical 1 carat mark). I personally see tint in J stones, but that's just me.

 

[partgypsy]

I''m not a mind reader so I don''t know what your to be betrothed preferences are, but to get a 1 carat size for 4K, I would think you would have to make some pretty serious concessions, ones that would affect the beauty of the stone. I would shoot for .8 carat (or up) in an ideal cut. Although she will not be able to say "this is a 1 carat", I think ideal and superideal stones look bigger (and beautiful) for their size. I have a .47 carat (hearts and arrows) set in a thin bezel and someone admiring it asked "is it a carat?". So I don''t think people looking at it will go oh, it''s less than a carat, etc as long as it is a beautiful stone.

The only other thing to consider, is some women put carat at the top of their list. I''m not one of them so it is hard to read between the lines here, but if so, maybe she would be willing to sacrifice the maui trip for a larger carat size. Personally, the size, cut quality, setting etc specs that you are considering sounds tasteful and gorgeous.

 

[E B]

If she can see color in an I, I'd go to an H, SI1 or super eye-clean SI2.

(I didn't think I was color-sensitive for the longest time, but the tint in my J started to bother me after a while.)

ETA: I somehow missed it being an IGI "I", so you're prob. good with a GIA/AGS "I"

 

[tonyc2387]

Hi all... thanks for the input. Looks like J is definitely out... it was just a curiosity.

I know the 1.0ct is that magical

number... but even she understands that price essentially doubles when you step up from .85ish to 1.0. She likes it, yes, but also thinks the money would be better spent elsewhere. Along the lines of what gypsy said, I was going for a more ideal cut in a smaller (.8ish) size to keep the bang, without the huge $$$ of the 1.0. Plus, if I could pull off something in the 80-82 point range, it''s what, .3mm diameter off the 1.0? I know it wouldn''t be perfectly "mind clean", but unless a .85 is right next to a 1.0, it''s darn near impossible to tell (especially, I''m hoping, with an ACA-type cut).

I don''t have my heart quite set on Maui, it would just be epic. Also, I''ve been there before, and we want to go someplace new to both of us for honeymoon. I do have my heart set on travel, though, as she''s quite the travel bug... and I think a surprise trip + proposal would have a crapton more lifetime sentimental value than 1.0ct. Without revealing the rest of my plans... let''s just say to her, it''d be beyond worth it.

 

[tonyc2387]

HELP!

lol, but seriously, I''ve given it a ton of thought, searched a bunch, and I just can''t seem to find a .95+ct diamond (with balanced, but lower, cut/color/clarity) that justifies the 40+% increase in price, especially when I''d have to sacrifice the trip. Also attractive to WF ACA is lifetime upgrade policy, so it should be possible to get something good now, afford a trip, AND go bigger than what she expects later on (hey, I could surprise her with that too...)

That being said... I need reasons _not_ to buy this diamond:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2183262.htm
. Depth %: 61.7
. Table %: 55.5
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 15.3
. Star : 54
. Pavilion Angle: 40.6
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.03-6.04X3.73
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

PS+wire price is $200 lower, so can be crammed into budget. About as big as I''ve seen in 80-90 point range, especially G, VS, and affordable. HCA is a totally lower-than-necessary 0.8. There''s an I-color diamond with almost exactly the same specs for $800 cheaper, but I''m thinking if I''m staying lower in weight, I should really keep G-color to be "mind-clean".

Two biggest questions:
-Even though WF ACA, any red flags on the numbers?
-Is she _really_ going to notice the .3-.4mm diameter hit, .1mm height hit, vs a 1.0ct, when mounted? Or is it purely that "mind clean" factor...?

PS: It''s on reserve, so reasons not to buy can not include "cause I just did".

 

[tyty333]

No reason not to buy! Numbers look good and idealscope looks good IMO...I believe you are
always safe with an ACA as far as numbers go. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Should be a lovely stone!

 

[partgypsy]

If you get ACA it''s like the best of both worlds because you can upgrade later if you want. I got ACA earrings. I haven''t needed to upgrade yet, but it''s nice for the peace of mind.

 

[outatouch0]

Looks like you have received a lot of good input already so I will keep my comments limited.
When I was selecting diamonds for my purchase I wrestled with the size issue as well. That stopped when I found myself a metric ruler. The size differences being discussed are in terms of FRACTIONS OF A MILLIMETER. Once I got my mind around that it made my decision much easier. Take a look on your ruler at the size difference between 0.75 and 1.0 ct. Would you notice a difference if the two stones were not side by side?
When I considered that the price can double with stones of similar quality. I went with quality over quantity and we could not be happier with her ring

My 2 cents - hope that helps

 

[tonyc2387]

yes, outatouch, you are correct, some excellent info from everyone. i couldn''t be more grateful... thanks to all!!

you couldn''t be more right. the equivalent difference between that .836, and a typical well-cut 1.0ct, is literally all of wrapping the stone in a piece of paper, maybe twice. in a setting, she could never ever tell the difference, BUT she will be able to tell the difference in price... cause I will be doing something fantastic with the extra, oh, $4-5k. i think we''ll be happy too...

and btw, my search has stopped as well.





p.s. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

 

[E B]

tony,

I think you made a great choice. G and VS2 are fabulous ''mind-clean'' specs, and I''d absolutely take a memorable proposal in Hawaii over a couple of points that wouldn''t even be noticeable. Please be sure to return with post-proposal pics!

 

[outatouch0]

Glad to hear it - look forward to seeing you post in "SHOW ME THE RING" !!!!!!

 

[tonyc2387]

thanks ebree! not that it matters, but it''s actually vs1... and so in my mind, needing 10-30x mag to start picking out inclusions is way beyond clean (and awesome!). i keep looking at all the specs, numbers, pretty WF pictures... and the more i do, the happier i am with my choice. can''t wait till i get it... cause honestly, i''m still finding it hard to believe i actually bought it. maybe it''ll set in once it''s in my hand...

in other news, i spoke with a very highly recommended travel agent (referred from one of my best friends) and she talked some sense back into me... hawaii is probably akin to the 1.0ct. shiny and more impressive? yes, but also 3x the price just to get out there... and there is just as much surprise and fun to be had in a trip to south florida/the caribbean. which is where i was thinking of going in the first place, but who can blame me for aiming high?

anyway, i can''t even begin to say how helpful you have all been, and how grateful i am for it. i will definitely be sticking around... this is a great place to be! also, you can count on a detailed story with pics after the main event. just give me some time... it''ll be worth it!

 

[Stone-cold11]

Good luck.

 

[Laila619]

Please post pics when you get the ring!