Advice needed for 2 ct stone purchase please!

[TheDuchess]

Hi, we have recently started our mission to find a ring to celebrate our 20 year anniv. Initially I was leaning toward a RHR or an eternity band for that hand and keeping my current ER. It needs resized as my knuckle has gotten slightly larger...it's a 3.25 or 3.5 and I now need a size 4. The ER has a 1.05 center stone, with beveled sides with graduated rounds ... 8 per side. I forget the specs on the ER but it's VS1 or 2, with a near-colorless grade color, maybe a G. Everyone has always commented on it that it is a nice ring...looks large on my hand. I wear it alone as my hand is small and we never found a band that matched it. Anyways I have been looking at anniversary type bands including a style made by Vera Wang with a total 2CTW. I wanted to get a "Wow" factor from whatever we purchased and since my current is already a carat, I felt any new purchase should be at least the 2CTTW but was trying to keep price under 10K. We went to a local jeweler this weekend and suddenly after all these weeks it dawned on DH that I was going to end up with something very similar in weight to the ER (not that I was complaining, mind you).

He now very generously proposes that I trade up my ER for a whole new one and has increased the budget accordingly. I was looking at the 1.5 range and then we looked at a 2 CT RB with a Tacori band (halo). The local jeweler says the diamond is not certified although the store will "provide their own certification" so if I need to trade it back to them later. For my current diamond, since I did not buy there they offer a credit which is probably less than actual value. This is a very reputable store in a pricey part of town, so I'm a little surprised at the list of diamonds shown to us and the remark they were not certified. The tacori is a cushion setting and the diamond we are looking at is a round. I could go toward a princess or asscher but not sure how they would look in the HT2521 Tacori.

I'm in no hurry necessarily although the jeweler is putting a little pressure on us to buy the 2CT before someone else does - current price is $ 15000 for the 2.06 RB I SI1 NC was "supposedly" $ 18500. I plan to buy once I find "the one" but would love some input/comments on this current offering from local jeweler. My husband was all for buying it right away, as it sparkled quite a bit next to my ER - I'm the cautious one. Plan to revisit it this week and view under magnification.

 

[slg47]

I would not buy 'uncertified' for a purchase that large...you simply do not know what you are getting and if the price is fair. I would also stay away from jewelers who put pressure on you to purchase!

 

[TheDuchess]

Thanks Slg47....it's not like the salesperson is stalking me, but suggesting that the list of diamonds they currently have "on sale" will be sought during an expo coming up, and we need to decide by this weekend so they can release the diamond to sell to someone else if we don't want it.

 

[slg47]

FYI here is a diamond for comparison...2.15 GIA J/SI1 for $16690 wire price...
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1371025.asp

 

[TheDuchess]

Thanks...I have been plugging in comparisons at Whiteflash, GOG and Blue Nile ....sort of overwhelming actually. I think DH is swayed because he would like for me to have a 2 ct and he thinks the price offered by the local B&M is good. He went on line also and did not think the price could compare, but I have mentioned to him there are an awful lot of variables on the price.

In addition, with a size 4, according to the "finger coverage" chart, I think it's going to look huge along with the halo factor of a Tacori or similar setting. The only benefit I see with the B&M is that I can try it on and see if it looks good on my hand or not. I love this site but certainly need advice!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks...I have been plugging in comparisons at Whiteflash, GOG and Blue Nile ....sort of overwhelming actually. I think DH is swayed because he would like for me to have a 2 ct and he thinks the price offered by the local B&M is good. He went on line also and did not think the price could compare, but I have mentioned to him there are an awful lot of variables on the price.

In addition, with a size 4, according to the "finger coverage" chart, I think it's going to look huge along with the halo factor of a Tacori or similar setting. The only benefit I see with the B&M is that I can try it on and see if it looks good on my hand or not. I love this site but certainly need advice!!!

i'll give you an advice..."RUN FAST" there ain't no reason to buy a 2ct stone w/o GIA or a AGS lab report...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks Slg47....it's not like the salesperson is stalking me, but suggesting that the list of diamonds they currently have "on sale" will be sought during an expo coming up, and we need to decide by this weekend so they can release the diamond to sell to someone else if we don't want it.

LOL!! Zales and kay's always fed me the same line. SA are so full of B.S.

 

[slg47]

Thanks...I have been plugging in comparisons at Whiteflash, GOG and Blue Nile ....sort of overwhelming actually. I think DH is swayed because he would like for me to have a 2 ct and he thinks the price offered by the local B&M is good. He went on line also and did not think the price could compare, but I have mentioned to him there are an awful lot of variables on the price.

In addition, with a size 4, according to the "finger coverage" chart, I think it's going to look huge along with the halo factor of a Tacori or similar setting. The only benefit I see with the B&M is that I can try it on and see if it looks good on my hand or not. I love this site but certainly need advice!!!

a 2 ct with a size 4 finger and a halo is definitely going to be a substantial look! If you can I recommend trying it on to see if you like the proportions on your hand.

 

[Dancing Fire]

He now very generously proposes that I trade up my ER for a whole new one and has increased the budget accordingly. I was looking at the 1.5 range and then we looked at a 2 CT RB with a Tacori band (halo). The local jeweler says the diamond is not certified although the store will "provide their own certification" so if I need to trade it back to them later. For my current diamond, since I did not buy there they offer a credit which is probably less than actual value. This is a very reputable store in a pricey part of town, so I'm a little surprised at the list of diamonds shown to us and the remark they were not certified. The tacori is a cushion setting and the diamond we are looking at is a round. I could go toward a princess or asscher but not sure how they would look in the HT2521 Tacori.

yes, a certificate from Micky Mouse...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks...I have been plugging in comparisons at Whiteflash, GOG and Blue Nile ....sort of overwhelming actually. I think DH is swayed because he would like for me to have a 2 ct and he thinks the price offered by the local B&M is good. He went on line also and did not think the price could compare, but I have mentioned to him there are an awful lot of variables on the price.

In addition, with a size 4, according to the "finger coverage" chart, I think it's going to look huge along with the halo factor of a Tacori or similar setting. The only benefit I see with the B&M is that I can try it on and see if it looks good on my hand or not. I love this site but certainly need advice!!!

tell your DH that there are no "correctly graded" cheap diamonds in the market.

 

[TheDuchess]

this just in from the store as I asked them specific questions regarding table, depth, cut grade, whether there is fluoresence etc (learned from all you here on PS). They gave me the dimensions, and here is the rest of the response from the store:

"This particular diamond does not have a Gemological Grading report which would normally have the percentages and angles that you are asking for. We will provide a Certificate of Authenticity from [name of store] that will have the carat weight, color, and clarity. We do have diamonds that have the Gemological Grading report, but they will be about double in price of the diamond that you are looking at."

I guess that says more than enough?

 

[slg47]

this just in from the store as I asked them specific questions regarding table, depth, cut grade, whether there is fluoresence etc (learned from all you here on PS). They gave me the dimensions, and here is the rest of the response from the store:

"This particular diamond does not have a Gemological Grading report which would normally have the percentages and angles that you are asking for. We will provide a Certificate of Authenticity from [name of store] that will have the carat weight, color, and clarity. We do have diamonds that have the Gemological Grading report, but they will be about double in price of the diamond that you are looking at."

I guess that says more than enough?

that says enough to me to not buy...especially when you can find a GIA graded stone online for similar price!

 

[MissGotRocks]

this just in from the store as I asked them specific questions regarding table, depth, cut grade, whether there is fluoresence etc (learned from all you here on PS). They gave me the dimensions, and here is the rest of the response from the store:

"This particular diamond does not have a Gemological Grading report which would normally have the percentages and angles that you are asking for. We will provide a Certificate of Authenticity from [name of store] that will have the carat weight, color, and clarity. We do have diamonds that have the Gemological Grading report, but they will be about double in price of the diamond that you are looking at."

I guess that says more than enough?

that says enough to me to not buy...especially when you can find a GIA graded stone online for similar price!

Exactly!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Thritto!

You have no idea what you are buying and in fact you might not be getting a deal at all. There is no way to proof that the "grades" they are giving you is accurate. Your husband is likely not comparing apples to apples with his online search. It's like a kid comes home with a hand drawn report card in crayon that says all A+ - "Mommy, do I get a present because I got A+ in every course?" It would be very different if the school mailed you an official report card saying A+ across the board.

 

[TheDuchess]

well to give DH credit he did input the specs known to us...price, carat, color (I), clarity (as stated only by the vendor of course!) to see what was similar on the websites. So I think he was trying apples to apples best he could with just a day researching it so far. He did not find very many 2 CT at that price point but then again, as you kindly point out, we don't know the exact specs without a certificate. Doesn't the inventory on line fluctuate daily/weekly? I will have to convince him of the benefits of buying online (potentially sight unseen) but he may not willing to do...any ideas there? Let him camp on this site for a few days?

 

[OCgirl]

What is the return policy like? I guess if he feels strongly about buying from the store, you can purchase the diamond first and send it to an independent appraiser. It's tricky though since you are trading in your stone.

Buying an uncertified stone is a huge gamble. You won't know if the specs given by the store is inflated (better color, better clarity than GIA would otherwise grade). So "assuming" the stone is a GIA I, SI1 is a huge guess. And I don't think using such big assumptions when it comes to such a big purchase is the smartest idea. A two color grade variance can equate to thousands of dollars. Not only that, we have NO IDEA what the cut of this stone is like.

I think you can do MUCH better online.

 

[TheDuchess]

thanks all - and that was my initial concern OCGirl, that I could not verify the cut grade. Obviously it's sparkly in the store under all the spotlights but since I'm certainly no expert I would only be able to look at it under the scope and look for really obvious flaws. I would not be able to tell anything about return of light, etc.

Their return policy is short to allow for any obvious defects to the setting but not positive about for the diamond alone - believe they don't take anything back unless you are upgrading, and they state the certificate they will write up is for that purpose. They will take it back later with the specs on "their" certificate if you are buying something else in their store. (from what you all have posted for me, it appears this would be totally useless everywhere else). We had a friend who bought a HoF there and when the engagement fell through just a couple of months later, they would not buy it back except at a MUCH reduced price (he held onto it).

 

[OCgirl]

thanks all - and that was my initial concern OCGirl, that I could not verify the cut grade. Obviously it's sparkly in the store under all the spotlights but since I'm certainly no expert I would only be able to look at it under the scope and look for really obvious flaws. I would not be able to tell anything about return of light, etc.

Their return policy is short to allow for any obvious defects to the setting but not positive about for the diamond alone - believe they don't take anything back unless you are upgrading, and they state the certificate they will write up is for that purpose. They will take it back later with the specs on "their" certificate if you are buying something else in their store. (from what you all have posted for me, it appears this would be totally useless everywhere else). We had a friend who bought a HoF there and when the engagement fell through just a couple of months later, they would not buy it back except at a MUCH reduced price (he held onto it).

It doesn't sound that great then I think almost anything, including a pebble (jk), would sparkle under jewelry store lights. They are DESIGNED to make any stone sparkle as they are so many lights from so many angles.

Since this is your upgrade, I say you should think about what YOU want. I have a size 4.25 finger and I think while 2 ct with a halo is great, I would much prefer an ideal cut 1.7 ct stone with better color (or clarity if you want mind clean). Even if you decide to stick with a 2 ct, I think your options are much greater online.

A business is a business. You have to wonder why they don't send their stones to GIA to get them certified if they claim "stones with the same specs with GIA will cost 2X more." If they believe their gradings are accurate and the SAME EXACT STONE with a GIA cert can sell 2X more, then why don't they send it to GIA?!?? It sure doesn't cost $17,000 to certify a stone!!!!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

thanks all - and that was my initial concern OCGirl, that I could not verify the cut grade. Obviously it's sparkly in the store under all the spotlights but since I'm certainly no expert I would only be able to look at it under the scope and look for really obvious flaws. I would not be able to tell anything about return of light, etc.

Their return policy is short to allow for any obvious defects to the setting but not positive about for the diamond alone - believe they don't take anything back unless you are upgrading, and they state the certificate they will write up is for that purpose. They will take it back later with the specs on "their" certificate if you are buying something else in their store. (from what you all have posted for me, it appears this would be totally useless everywhere else). We had a friend who bought a HoF there and when the engagement fell through just a couple of months later, they would not buy it back except at a MUCH reduced price (he held onto it).

yes,just flush it down the toilet..

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Here is how you explain it to your husband.

"Husband, diamonds are worth a lot of money. The diamond from store X is supposedly a 2ct I Si1 (unknown cut grade) stone. They want $15k for it with no lab report. If they got a lab report for the diamond, it would cost $30k, according to them. Now, a lab report costs the vendor about $200, for the report and shipping to and from GIA. PLease tell me, what business man in his right mind would turn away $15k to save himself $200?"

The answer to this question is obvious to those of us who know the diamond industry The vendor did not send it to GIA because if he did, it would NOT receive a color grade of "I" or a clarity grade of SI1, it would receive who knows what cut grade, and if the vendor sent it to GIA it would be *worth LESS* on the market than it currently is selling for. You have just assume that to be the case with virtually every diamond you see at a jewler with no lab report -- the dealer is selling it for MORE than he would be able to sell it for if its "true" characteristics were revealed with a trip to GIA.

There are no true deals on the diamond market (*caveat below). Jewelers and people in the industry know what their goods are worth and rely on the fact that most consumers do not know what their goods are worth.

As a consumer you do not look for the lowest price for *perceived quality*, espially when you are a newbie. You should look for the best value you can find, and that is always always found with diamonds with GIA lab reports or AGS lab reports.


**Caveat: I do believe there are some actual deals to be found on the secondary market. You might consider that. And old cuts liek OECs and OMBs are still priced lower than RBs, even at retail stores rather than the wild west of ebay.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

thanks all - and that was my initial concern OCGirl, that I could not verify the cut grade. Obviously it's sparkly in the store under all the spotlights but since I'm certainly no expert I would only be able to look at it under the scope and look for really obvious flaws. I would not be able to tell anything about return of light, etc.

Their return policy is short to allow for any obvious defects to the setting but not positive about for the diamond alone - believe they don't take anything back unless you are upgrading, and they state the certificate they will write up is for that purpose. They will take it back later with the specs on "their" certificate if you are buying something else in their store. (from what you all have posted for me, it appears this would be totally useless everywhere else). We had a friend who bought a HoF there and when the engagement fell through just a couple of months later, they would not buy it back except at a MUCH reduced price (he held onto it).

Never ever buy a diamond unless the store is willing to allow at least a 7 day inspection/return period where you get back 100% of the purchase price of the diamond, and ideally, the setting as well. That is something you must also imprint on your mind! Good vendors have such policies. Stores that do not allow returns for cash, and frankly, stores that sell uncerted 2ct diamonds, are not reputable and you need to just assume that everything they tell you is false and aimed at suckering you for money.

 

[TheDuchess]

Dreamer and OCgirl, thanks for the insight and perfect rationale. I believe I can now move forward and continue with our search and not at this particular store. I was wondering if the GIA type certificate only cost a few hundred dollars so that makes perfect sense.

 

[OCgirl]

Dreamer and OCgirl, thanks for the insight and perfect rationale. I believe I can now move forward and continue with our search and not at this particular store. I was wondering if the GIA type certificate only cost a few hundred dollars so that makes perfect sense.

The cost to get a grading report is listed on GIA's site.

http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/Lab-Fee-Schedule-Diamond-US.pdf

To grade a 2.00 to 2.99 ct diamond is $154. Count in shipping charges and insurance, it CANNOT be over $500 if you live in the US!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Glad you have been advised to just skip this ring and the store! You only want a graded stone AND an unconditional return policy! Most of us have found that local jewelers simply do not carry a selection of ideal/excellent cut diamonds. I advise buying the diamond online and either buy a setting from the diamond vendor or have it set locally if you cannot find what you like at the diamond vendor.

I'd 1000 times rather have a certified 1.5 ct. ring over ANY size uncertified. The customer is never the one who benefits from an uncertified stone and they are almost 100% of the time optimistically "graded" by the jeweler. I also will not buy from someone who is pushy. I have gotten nice diamonds from both Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash, and there are several other good vendors, also.

 

[TheDuchess]

good advise DiamondSeeker. I'm not "stuck" on getting a 2ct. I orginally just was in the market for an anniv. type band/3 stone/etc for which I wanted 2 CTTW. It was DH's idea after seeing the differences in my current ring and those in the store to upgrade to the 2 CT. So I have plenty of time to shop/decide. I'm sure I'll be posting more questions here on PS!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think taking your time is wise! I came here 6 years ago looking for a new diamond ring for our anniversary, also! It took me about 9 months to decide on a diamond and a few more months to get a setting made! I think with your tiny fingers and 2 ct. would be pretty huge! I actually tried on one today and it was too huge for me! It was beautiful, though!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I would even offer to the store that you will pay for the GIA certificate cost and shipping if the GIA report confirm the specs they provided. This is a win win for you on all accounts. The cost will be minimal and if it checks out .. you get a GIA report with your stone. If it doesn't check out, you pay nothing and you get a better picture for what you are buying.

The only thing is that GIA can be a bit slow - like a month but then again .. the store doesn't sell 2ct stones every day.

 

[TheDuchess]

Good idea - I might mention it to them just to hear the response to see if they turn me down!! I don't think they sell 2ct every day but in this town, I'm sure they do well enough. The whole place is stocked with either HoF or designer brands. Its not your typical mall vendor. It's not Cartier with someone hovering at the door but pretty close, they have a meet/greet and sign in set up so while they aren't chasing any regular Joe out the door (who could have cash in his pocket), they definitely want to demonstrate their upscale cache.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Good idea - I might mention it to them just to hear the response to see if they turn me down!! I don't think they sell 2ct every day but in this town, I'm sure they do well enough. The whole place is stocked with either HoF or designer brands. Its not your typical mall vendor. It's not Cartier with someone hovering at the door but pretty close, they have a meet/greet and sign in set up so while they aren't chasing any regular Joe out the door (who could have cash in his pocket), they definitely want to demonstrate their upscale cache.

better yet...ask the vendor if they have a Sarin machine in the store,if yes then ask them to scan the stone to get an idea about the cut quality before you waste your money with GIA.