USE THIS ONE! Ask Dad, Mom, both parents or neither?

[sparklyandsquare]

You know, I'll have to ask my mother how she felt about my BIL talking only to my father when he wanted to marry my sister. While my family is relatively traditional, my mom works, expects to be included in all family decisions, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if she felt a bit left out when BIL talked to my dad only (especially since both my sister & I are closer to mom). Since my mother would have no more problem keeping a secret than my father, and this wouldn't be a "short" talk with either of them, there was really no reason not to include her. I think my BIL just did it that way because "that's the way it's done."

F&I-
RE: alcohol at weddings. Speaking as a social drinker, be SO glad all the weddings you've been to serve alcohol. (Guess you don't know many Southern Baptists!) Nothing more boring than a reception if no one's dancing, and you know not many people are going to be dancing if there's no drinking! My sister had a dry wedding because even though they both drink, they thought his family would be upset if there was alcohol. Let's just say it was a short, dull reception because his family wouldn't dance either (despite my encouragement!). They were actually annoyed that people were clinking on the glasses for the couple to kiss (i guess they weren't supposed to kiss in public other than a short peck when the pastor said so) I always hated weddings as a kid...LONG sermon followed by a short reception in the church fellowship hall with (seriously) punch & cookies.

Only when I went to my first Catholic as an adult did I see that weddings could be romantic & fun. Then, I went to a wedding in Poland--The reception lasted 3 days!!! What a blast! They were shocked when they heard that American receptions are only a few hours/a day long. But, they get more time off work, etc. so people can travel further and stay longer.

 

[sumi]

----------------
On 4/21/2004 8:46:25 AM fire&ice wrote:

....to stir the pot a little further...

----------------

F&I, you're such the little devil.

I found your comment in an earlier post very interesting. Here it is:

"We don't have children, even with society viewing us a freaks"



I just found that so interesting. I don't know your situation, but I've been reading a lot about women who choose not to have children. Society is just confused by a woman who doesn't want a child. There's so much value attached to a woman's ability to bear children and nurture them. Yes, obviously, it's a very important function. But, what about the woman who doesn't want this as a part of their life? My husband and I are seriously thinking about remaining childless forever. Whenever I talk about this to people, they are just so confused. They're are more confused by me not wanting a child than my husband not wanting a child. I just don't think that having children is the source of absolute happiness for everyone.


TOTALLY OFF TOPIC, sorry! I just didn't want to pass up F&I's previous comment.

 

[Nicrez]

Honestly...after seeing that movie Cheaper by the Dozen, I walked out telling my fiance that I wanted ONE child and IF that... He got spooked. He wants two.

I know a few couples who either couldn't have children, or didn't want them. One is a family friend who was an actress and model in her country, and to this day is still so tall and elegant. She owns a spa and her and her husband lack nothing. They work, have friends and family, and watched us grow as kids, but NEVER seemed at all bothered by not having children!

My maternal uncle never even married, and he's such a workaholic and traveler that since his
retirement 6 years ago, he STILL works and does charity and philanthropy. I think he's glad mostly that he never had kids or a wife, as his life style just wouldn't allow perhaps for a happy one. Plus, he still spoils me, as I was his favorite. I wouldn't give THAT up!

Sadly, I wish more people who SHOULDN'T have children would decide not to, not the people who would make excellent parents, like F&I and Sumi...Oh well. It isn't for everyone, but I noticed most of these childless couples tend to have more time to enjoy their maturity and travel and do things I could only dream of! God bless!

Opps, sorry, did I "bless"...whoops!

By the way, I think in Christian religions, blessings are done so frequently, like at special occassions, sickness, masses, etc. It's sort of a religious well wishing, so that's just another spin on the parental blessing, as I see it.

Permission I guess came from the whole being so young in the old days, before they moved out from their parent's houses and before they "legallY" were adults to own land, etc...

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/21/2004 12:50:23 PM sumi wrote:

----------------
On 4/21/2004 8:46:25 AM fire&ice wrote:

....to stir the pot a little further...

----------------

F&I, you're such the little devil.

I found your comment in an earlier post very interesting. Here it is:

'We don't have children, even with society viewing us a freaks'



I just found that so interesting. I don't know your situation, but I've been reading a lot about women who choose not to have children. . ----------------

Our situation is really simple. We didn't choose not to have children. We didn't choose to have children. It just wasn't in the cards. Both of us wanted kids. Just didn't happen. And, we aren't into fertility stuff. I like children; and, we are aunti & uncle F&I to a brood of kids. We do have a full life; and, never really felt like we were missing anything. We have two very interactive dogs & some cats to round out our 4-legged children.

The "freaks of nature" comment had my tongue planted firmly in my cheek. It relates back to a conversation I had with someone who never should have had children. I was in my late 20's. She worked in the company down the hall. I'd pop in to say hello every once in a while. She looked terribly upset. And looked me in the eye & said "Don't buy into the lie". You don't *have* to have children. What was discussed next is a chapter & verse. That said, the statement made me pause. It never dawned on me that some people just weren't happy w/ children. This wasn't an isolated bad day kind of thing. She was serious (and her children were grown!).

Point is, do what's right for you. Not what the "norm" is. BTW, none of my friends had children early in their marriage. And, one said she would never have children! Now, she's jokes about being Ms. Soccer Mom! So, I don't think it's a decision that is etched in stone. We change through our life.

Nic - 3 children is the point of no return. 1 is the most managable upfront. 2 will drive one crazy up front; but, is the most easy on the back 9. Just my observation from close friends & family.

Sparkle, I would be interested to hear whether your mom felt left-out. Mine didn't.

 

[Nicrez]

F&I, I was a child of three, so I don't know about being a handful, but I know I WAS!

My sister was such an angel, she potty trained herself and never even sucked her thumb once she started solid foods. She was top 10 of her class, always the model child, student, musician, etc. Like she was born with a halo...

My brother an I were a bit tougher. He was a good kid, did well, never in trouble, helped out dad, but he and I would arge, fight and basically be rambunctious and lazy when we felt like it.

I still sort of think 3 would be my ideal number (even after that damned movie), because I had a sister who dressed me like her babrie and shared girlie talks and clothes with, and my brother and I rough housed and he taught me all about cars and boats, electronics, how to lay tiles or sheetrock and soder, and how to buy and sell profitably. That said, if I could afford it comfortably, I would have three kids, at least 1.5 apart!

As for not having kids, that's the way it starts for most. I don't think our friend was able to, and after a while she didn't care to. She has no pets, but they definately keep themselves buys and happy! To each his own, and sometimes I think things have a way of working out.

Some people have kids, weak relationships and that compounded with the trouble children can bring, makes their lives miserable. You were at least lucky to have found such an excellent partner in your husband, that without children, I hope you have grown closer and more comfortable with eachother...Kids could have caused the opposite to happen, you never know!

But I STILL think one more blessing in life is better that none! So I'd get the mom's blessing too!

 

[sumi]

----------------
On 4/21/2004 3:40:40 PM fire&ice wrote: <hr size="1"

You don't *have* to have children. What was discussed next is a chapter & verse. That said, the statement made me pause. It never dawned on me that some people just weren't happy w/ children. This wasn't an isolated bad day kind of thing. She was serious (and her children were grown!).

Point is, do what's right for you. Not what the 'norm' is.
----------------

I totally agree. I don't think a lot of people take the time to step back and decide whether or not they want kids. Or they just assume that they *have* to have children. Just because I have a uterus, doesn't mean it MUST be used. You know? I'm not convinced that having children is for everyone. I think there are people out there that will live better lives without them. Obviously, there are a lot of people who's lives are totally enriched by the parenting experience. The point is, that not everyone MUST have kids.

I'm still pretty young, only in my late 20's. So, who knows? I might have children 10 years from now and I might not. For now and into the foreseeable future, being a mother is not for me.



Nic: I'm reminded of something my mom once said. I am also a child of three (I'm the middle child). My sister has two young children right now. She pulled my mom aside at a family BBQ once, saying that she had something important to tell her. My mother immediately thought that my sister was pregnant with her third child. Well, she wasn't pregnant, it was something totally different. After that, my mom said that as much as she LOVES all three of her kids, she does feel sorry for mothers with more than two. She was actually relieved that my sister wasn't pregnant. Apparently, it's really tought to raise more than two kids. Well, I'm sure it's even tough to raise two! or one!


what was this thread originally about again? sorry!

 

[hoorray]

The number of people who don't want the father or family consulted first surprises me. That's my feeling -- I'm a very private person about this type of thing, and I would want the proposal and marriage decision to be between us first and then shared with everyone else. (Both families). If my husband had talked to my mother first, I would have written it off as his trying to go the extra step to be thoughtful, but it wouldn't have been my choice. If he had talked to my father first, I would have been offended since he knows we are not close, and it would have been more of a "property/tradition for tradition's sake" discussion.

I think the right answer is completely dependent on the family and the couple. My brother asked my new SIL's Dad, and she thought it was sweet.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/21/2004 10:02:36 PM lop wrote:

. If he had talked to my father first, I would have been offended since he knows we are not close. ----------------

I have to agree in this case. Some people are estranged from their fathers as well. I know one family member would be mortified if the BF asked the father.

Also, I have to say that some of my friends are a better human being since having children. And, it's the hardest job in the world. With some exceptions, the brunt of raising the children fall on the mother. A tough job as it may, my friends all agree how rewarding it is. They all say it is something they can not put in words.

That said, it's not for everyone. And, that should be respected. I can't stand it when someone goes into a dissertation about how *fabuluous* being a parent is & what I'm missing out on. I can take the heat because we do not need a child to complete us; but, what about the people who can't conceive?

 

[Nicrez]

We had two family friends who could not conceive for whatever reason, and so they adopted. That's probably THE biggest test of parenting and patience, I have to say! Both had one "good" child, and both had the "bad" child.

One couple had a daughter that was so selfish and cruel she accused her parents of adopting her to take care of their other adopted son who was mentally handicapped. She ran off accusing some Nasty nasty things, and with a heavy heart and lots of attempts, then finally disowned her. Only after their tragic death did she try to step up to the plate to claim their fortunes. Not a good thing...

Second couple adopted two as well, and one was the epitome of a perfect child, loving, doting, even to this day. The other one got involved in drugs, bad business, failed modeling, fathered a child he took no responsibility for. Rehab and a good woman later he seems to have straightened out, and they adore him and eveything he does to this day. Tough to forgive children who hurt you, when they where never yours genetically.

It takes a lot to be a parent, especially for adopted children, and those who choose no children have their reasons, which shows maturity and self-knowing. Some people pop out some kids and are terrible parents or entirely unprepared, but did so becuse it was "expected", which is of course dangerous for the poor children!

Can't I just adopt some of those children via Sally Struthers and just send them some money and keep their picture in my wallet?

 

[tomatoe]

My family firmly believes that there should be a license for people to produce children just as there are licenses for everything from keeping pets to driving a vehicle. There are too many people who shouldn't be having kids but keep popping them out and too many people who should have kids but can't and are having a terrible time dealing with the issue.

 

[Nicrez]

Entirely off the off-topic conversation, but I just remembered that when dealing with orthodox jews, they can not shake a woamn's hand, and when I held mine out, they shyed away.

Anyone know what exactly this means, or am I not using enough moisturizer?

I know that the woman are traditional, and wear conservative clothes. I also noticed that they ALWAYS wear thick stockings so that none of their skin is exposed or shown through sheer stockigns...

Just wondering if they have different vows or traditions...

 

[sparklyandsquare]

So I had a kind of funny conversation with my sister last night...

I hadn't discussed this forum with my sister yet because since my BIL talked my father before proposing (and my sister is more conservative than me), I thought she wouldn't really appreciate the topic/my opinion on all of this.

So anyhow, she calls me complaining about this wedding she went to in our hometown over the weekend. My sister is friends with the guy that got married. Not only did they have separate vows for the man & woman, but the church (a big fundamentalist nondenominational church) took it a step further. From what I understand, they had the girl's father come forward (maybe right after he walked her down the aisle) and had a big scripture reading about the man being in charge of "God's household" and the woman being his subserviant partner. Then they had readings about these two people coming together to create a house for "God's children" who they will "joyfully accept into their marriage." My sister said her friend didn't even look very happy and that all people could talk about at the (dry, no dancing) reception was how good it was for these two families to come together (both bride and groom are from large, religious families in the area).

I decided to tell my sister about the forum and the topics of conversation about wedding traditions in different religions/denominations. After that, we ended up talking about her husband (my BIL) talking to my father only and it turns out that it was actually a miscommunication between the two of them. A few months before they got engaged, her (now) husband asked if my sister wanted him to ask before proposing to her. She said he should, but assumed he would talk to both parents...he assumed he should just talk to my dad. Not a huge issue, but my sister said she felt a little bad that my mother wasn't included. So, while my sis is definitely more conservative on many issues, it looks like we're not as far apart as I thought on this one!

 

[Nicrez]

Well, I personally would never speak words I don't mean, so if she recited those vows, that means she is OK with them. If it was her church, she knows what the deal is. If it was a random church she chose, she should have at least had a rehearsal and heard these words before.

I don't want to put any religion down, because if someone believes in it, that's their belief...so obviously she believes in it, as her husband does.

You mention that she wasn't very happy that people where only talking about the two families uniting...? What did she want people to talk about? Families DO unite with marraiges. Mostly one family is created with the two families on either side participating together on holidays, etc...depending on the family, and the circumstances.

I am generalizing, but most families DO join. SOme don't, but I would not be out of line to say that isn't the AVERAGE. So was the bride cranky about conversation or something else? Did she know what she was getting into?

 

[fire&ice]

Non-denominational fundamentalist? Is that to the right of Baptist?

I guess my Baptist friends are more liberal as all of them drink & dance, events that happened at their weddings as well.

 

[julgul]

I think asking for the blessing is just a sign of respect for the father. If a man asks the woman's father, he is essentially letting the father know that he respects his insight.




My boyfriend and I are beginning to look at rings. I would like him to ask my dad.




Granted, I don't want people to know before me. However, I love my dad and know he would never let the secret out. I really think my dad would appreciate the gesture on my boyfriend's part.

 

[sparklyandsquare]

Nicrez-

Was away for the weekend...

First, I must repeat...I am not saying that the separate vows are bad/wrong/etc. I stated (many messages ago) that many cultures/religions/regions have different traditions...some that have endured and some that some people no longer participate in because they don't treat all people equally. When I said that while I would not be okay with vowing to "obey" my husband, many people still include that vow, both you (& others) stated that you had never heard of such a thing. At that point I stated what I knew about some of the denominations that practice this, and then followed it up with the story my sister told. I'm not saying these people shouldn't get marrying in such a fashion...it's totally their right to do so. BUT, if they think it's rude/improper for ME not to vow to obey my husband, I would take issue with that--just as I take issue with people thinking it's rude for a guy not to talk to my father before proposing. I personally think the tradition is sexist to me, to my mother, etc. If others want to do it, fine, but it's in no way "bad manners" for me not to continue a tradition I find demeaning.

Also, my sister was commenting on how all of the comments made at the wedding was about God, the family, future children etc....almost *Nothing* was said about these people being in love. And they're the ones that will (hopefully) be together day in and day out for many decades to come.

As far as the families joining, maybe my friends aren't "average" and thus it skews my view. I have VERY few friends who married someone from the same area they are from and the in-laws all live in that area too. Most of my friends met at college, in a different city after school, etc. The "families joining" concept doesn't apply to them much at all....the bride's family and groom's family will probably ONLY see each other at 1) the wedding, 2) when grandchildren are born, 3) grandchildren's graduations, 4) grandchildren's weddings.

They would have very little to do with one another on a regular basis, so focusing at a wedding on the families joining rather than on a couple's love just seems odd. Even married friends I have who live in an area with both sets of parents rarely interact with both families at once: they go to his parents for thanksgiving lunch, and hers for thanksgiving dinner. There's just not a lot of interaction.

Since, on average, few of my married friends have many occassions that involve both families, I don't think there was much focus at all on "joining the families" at their weddings which is why this seems odd to me (particularly since this seems to completely override the husband and wife actually having a connection!)

In this case, I'm sure the couple will always live in the same area as their in-laws, probably go to the same church, etc. so maybe they will have more interaction. But since people are increasingly transient and don't live their whole life in the town they were born, I think many couples wouldn't have many instances when both his & her family would be around.

 

[sparklyandsquare]

F&I-
Not sure what you mean by "Baptist."

"Southern Baptist" which is what I was talking about is COMPLETELY different from American Baptist, Swedish Baptist, etc.

My father was raised American Baptist...very middle of the road to liberal Protestant denomination (at least in the Philly area where he was raised). My friend is Swedish Baptist and her church is quite liberal.

Southern Baptist churches tend to be quite conservative and are well-known for their "no drinking" and, to a lesser degree "no dancing" beliefs. This denomination dwarfs the other Baptist denominations in size, but when someone says they are Baptist, I'd say most often they are NOT saying they are Southern Baptist (unless you live in the Deep South and that's the only Baptists there are in your community). Most Southern Baptists I know, even in the south, will say specifically that they are SOUTHERN Baptist.

Your profile doesn't say where you live, but since you mentioned you hadn't been to a dry wedding, I'll guess it's not in the Bible Belt. While they are many regional differences, if your friends had drinking & dancing at their weddings, I'd guess they're not (practicing) Southern Baptists.

Non-denominational fundamentalist can be more or less conservative than Southern Baptist, depending on the individual S.B. church and the individual non-denom Fund. church. Just like some Mennonites look (to outsiders) just like the Amish, other Mennonites would be indistinguishable from random people you'd see on the street. Most denominations have a good deal of variety across the religious and political spectrum based on what region an individual church is in, if it's in a urban or rural area, etc. Thus, all I can really say about a non-denominational fundamentalist church is that they take the Bible literally (fundamentalist) and that they tend to be politically conservative and many have a "nontraditional" service format (fewer hymns, more singing along with a guitar or drums.

the bulldog wants attention...gotta go!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/26/2004 9:16:56 PM sparklyandsquare wrote:

F&I-
Not sure what you mean by 'Baptist.'


Your profile doesn't say where you live, but since you mentioned you hadn't been to a dry wedding, I'll guess it's not in the Bible Belt. While they are many regional differences, if your friends had drinking & dancing at their weddings, I'd guess they're not (practicing) Southern Baptists.

!----------------

Nope, I hail from the heart of the Bible Belt. I even sleep with a Southern Baptist! Hubby's mother was such; though, he was raised a Presbr - basically a Southern Wasp.

Me, I could be the United Nations of religion. Alcohol was an issue at the wedding. Out of respect (and to the good fortune of my pocketbook - parents gave me a set amount to spend - I could keep the remainder), we did not serve hard liquor at the reception. To appease northern guests, we had set up an open bar "tab" at the club bar. Funny thing is my MIL really should drink. She's wound up way too tight.

All that said, maybe the disconnect is my choice of friends. I'm not a big believer in the literal interpretation of the Bible. My whole point - why did God give us a thinking brain? So, perhaps my close friends weren't fundementalist baptists. Many Southern Babtist churches aren't. Many are an extention of a social need.

I'll respect your thoughts on the sexist aspect of the "talk". But, so many traditions have basis in nothing of reality today. So, if you focus on that aspect, why have a traditional ceremony? For example, the bride is on the right of the groom so that the "sword hand" is free to fight off potential kidnappers. Also, that is why attendents are present. The bridesmaids to make sure that the bride is delivered unharmed w/ dowery in place. The groomsmen to make sure nothing happens to the bride. The tradition of the grooms "people" & the brides "people" sitting on opposite sides dates back to when daughters were offered to the warring family as a peace offering. The "waring" families sat on opposite sides so that, well, a war didn't break out. If anything, I would be more inclined not to wear a veil. The veil symbolizes purity, modesty, submission, etc. Marriage, itself, is based in many sexist traditions. At this point, where to seat someone is easy because of tradition. Makes things go smoother. I feel the same way about the "talk".

I would rather spend my energies in situations rather than symbolism.

 

[hoorray]

Wow F&I....I thought hubby didn't know squat about wedding traditions (like why there are 2 envelopes, much less that tissue paper

), but now I think I don't know anything about them either! Interesting stuff. I think I'm glad I didn't wear a veil.

I agree 100% on the thinking brain comment. All traditions evolve -- thank goodness for that! and it is up to all of us to apply them appropriately to our individual lives.

 

[Nicrez]

Yeah F&I, so well said!!! I was basically saying that it's the situation and not the former history that makes "the talk" a very wise and helpful thing.

I spoke to my parents-in-law-to-be before we even decided to get engaged. We knew pretty early, but we had the whole, how will we raise our kids, how will we combat this and deal with that talk... They live literally ACCROSS the world. We speak on the phone and have visited, and are coming again this year. Frankly, I speak to them more often than my own parents who live on Long Island (as I am in NJ/NYC).

It doesn't matter if the families are far or near, they are still literally being joined and it really depends on the couple. As much as people are transient and move, the fact still remains that the vast majority of Americans still live within a few miles of their home towns. Just the facts. Even when they don't, some families are still close through the internet, e-mail, online video conferencing, etc...I know WE are! And so families (if they want to) find ways to be close or seperate...

 

[Bass12]

I'm planning on asking my girlfriend's father one on one. And when that is done, I'll get his opinion on me going to ask her mother for permission as well. I know it's tradition to ask the father, and it's especially important as my girlfriend and her family are traditional catholics.

However, her father is half of the equation, I don't feel like her mother should be left out of it. I'd feel much better about proposing knowing that both her parents are excited and approve and are willing to accept me into their family. And I'd really like to hear what both of them have to say individually!

I really liked the comment on how asking for hand in marriage isn't just asking for permission to marry their daughter. It's more about permission to marry into their family. So when I talk to him, I definitely plan on bringing up both sides to the topic!

My only worry is that I am not religious, and as I said, they are a catholic family, and go to church every week.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/28/2004 8:47:37 AM Bass12 wrote:



My only worry is that I am not religious, and as I said, they are a catholic family, and go to church every week.

----------------

While spritual, my hubby is not/has not been very religious - and a Wasp to boot! Quite frankly, my father thought my husband to be such a fine person that it didn't matter. But, I suspect they/she will want to marry in a Catholic Church.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/27/2004 5:58:44 PM lop wrote:

Interesting stuff. I think I'm glad I didn't wear a veil.

----------------

I wore a veil because it was a really cool one that was my mothers.

I just read a 10 page article on marriage ceremonies & traditions. It certainly was timely. Oh, and don't tie shoes to the "wedding car". That tradition is based on the groom smacking the bride w/ his shoe to make sure she stays in line.

 

[sparklyandsquare]

Nicrez-
Maybe my friends aren't in the majority...just wondering, where can you find info. regarding where Americans live (stay close to home, move away but same state, move further away, etc.)

btw, it's not that i want to double check you, I was just interested in the percentages, trends, etc. I'm very interested in demographic trends, etc., but my b.f. & I couldn't come up with the right keywords in google to get this info..."transient" and "americans" gave me a bunch of info. on the homeless...interesting, but not what I was after!

 

[Nicrez]

What I read was actually a study that my friend was researching for a paper she wrote regarding the nuclear and extended family and it's cohesion rates for single parent families.

She's finishing her Masters in Sociology at Fordham and had asked me to proofread her paper, so that article popped out at me, when she was researching. I don't have an on-line version of it, but I can easily find it when I speak to her next week, as we are meeting up for lunch.

It was basically stating that since the increase of single women or men raising their children in single parent homes, the need for child-care has not been fulfilled and inexpensive enough to allow many people to move far from their home towns and parents.

They stated that althought trends are making jobs move out to different areas, people are still preferring tele-commuting when possible, to remain near inexpensive child-care like parents, family, in-laws, etc., and the majority of Americans still reside close to their parents and extended family.

I am sure she will remember the article, and I'll get the specific authors and medium from her and post it when I get it. hope that helps!

 

[sparklyandsquare]

F&I-

Thanks for the info. on the wedding traditions. While I understand that many wedding customs have sexist symbolism, my problem with asking ONLY the father is I believe it continues to be sexist--in practice, not just symbolism.

This can be fixed by including the mother in the conversation, but I believe this was an unacceptable compromise to you because, in short, women can't be trusted to keep their big mouths shut.

----------------
On 4/21/2004 8:46:25 AM fire&ice wrote:


For the most part, I'm not a big believer in talking to both parents - for no other reason than too many cooks spoil the broth. I know my mother. She would have given my to be a dissertation. In other cases, some mothers may feel uncomfortable. The short sweet talk between two people (one on one) is more efficient/direct/sweet & to the point. Also, how many of your mothers can really keep a secret (even if you know it's coming) from you, the daughter.

----------------

Obviously many people would take issue with excluding women/mothers from this process based on a gender stereotype that women can't keep secrets and would talk too much when the b.f. is asking for their blessing. Besides, I'm sure my dad talked my BIL's ear off when he asked to propose to my sister.

So, while I don't feel it's necessary for my b.f. to talk to my parents at all, I wouldn't exactly have a problem with it as long as BOTH parents were included. With just the men talking, it is more than "old symbolism" that makes it sexist to me.

 

[Bass12]

That's why I think the game I'm playing might work. Asking her dad for permission, and then after that chat, asking him how he feels about me bringing it up to his wife. He would know whether it would make her feel left out if I didn't ask her as well. He would also know it it would make her uncomfortable if I ask her. That's why I think he's a good place to start and get advice from.

As with a lot of these postings...there's no right answer. It's very dependent on your personal situation and relationship with your significant other and her parents. However, it's very helpful reading all of these viewpoints. Nice to know I'm in the same boat as other people!

 

[fire&ice]

Sparkely - trust me - that was not a sterotype. That *is* my mother.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Where I see it as a KISS method (one on one - btw, if the father is incommunicado, the mother would be choosen), you see it as sexist. To me exclusion for simplicity sake.

I think most traditions/manners have some sort of base beginnings - some good - some bad - some really not known. I have heard so many different reasons why we say "bless you" to someone that sneezes. To me, it's just a nice gesture.

My belief is that manners should be used to make people feel more comfortable. If one doesn't feel comfortable w/ certain gestures, then they should be avoided.

 

[foundnemo]

----------------
On 4/19/2004 9:41:30 AM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
Truth be, for the most part, the son is going to be more a part of the wife's family then the wife will be part of the husband's family. I'm sure there are the exceptions; but, I don't know of any (20 years into marriage).

Why is this?

Is this a WASP thing? It's actually the opposite in the Asian (at least Chinese) traditions, where it's the woman marrying into the man's family and (in the old/traditional ways) would have to cook and do chores for the entire family.

Thank heavens I'm in America!

But for me and my fiance, we visit and interact with each other's family equally. I would think we will continue to do so after we're married.

As to the original question, my fiance did not talk to my parents before he proposed to me. It didn't matter to me whether he did or not, but I think my mother was a little disappointed that he didn't (but she's somewhat traditional).

BTW, has anyone seen that episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" where the brother went to ask his girlfriend's parents' blessing for him to propose but got shut down?

(It's TV, but this is the dysfunctional family where the husband's family is always around!)

 

[Nicrez]

Although my family lives closer, I am actually closer and talk more frequently to his family lately. Go figure!

Matter of fact, my fiance has been compared to Raymond quite a bit. It's a very similar thing we have going on...and my little Raymond was just as spoiled by his mom, so that leaves me a busy busy gal!