The Re-Surprise... Cruel trick, or good surprise technique?

[PlanningForGreatness]

Ladies (and Gentlemen, if you care to weigh in),
I have months to plan my proposal so I am weighing all things... and want it to be the best it can be. Here is the predicament that I see:
+A woman wants, and deserves, a very romantic proposal story, suited to her unique style and planned with her personality and interests in mind
+A woman wants, and deserves to be surprised. (for the most part, I know mine values surprise very highly, i.e. is turned off by shopping for a ring together, other things many girls find acceptable)

So my query is this. When I take the time to plan out an exceedingly romantic, personal, ring event, I feel like it is inevitable that she will quickly guess that there is a proposal at hand. One method I have considered is the re-surprise, and here''s the concept:

Elaborate date intentionally and unashamedly builds up to a climax which proposee can only assume is the proposal... but then you drop something else: your first "I love you", day appropriate gift, nice but not engagement ring nice jewelry gift, etc. After selling this being the ultimate climax of the evening for long enough to convince her, that tonight is not THE night, then you have both been able to be romantic and still have the element of surprise when you drop to your knee, and ask the question she really wanted to hear.

So: cruel trick or legitimate surprise tool. Discuss.

 

[pad3006]

that is extremely slick I like that a lot. I agree that for a woman who loves surprises that is awesome. My GF is the same way, she loves surprises. I think to her, and prob your GF too, its half of what makes the gifts so nice. I should probably do the same when I decide to propose.
I am sure that she will love it, and will really love all the thought you put into it and all. Good luck I hope that goes perfectly.

Phil

 

[ellewoods]

I defintely like the idea of doing something to throw her of the trail.

And I definitely would go for something like you''re planning, putting together a romantic date or event but then giving her a non-engagement gift of some sort. Then a little while later actually proposing.

But the problem with that idea....just from a Lady-In-Waiting''s perspective....is that for me, I would get very excited and think "wow he''s probably going to propose." And then I''d be kind of anxious and excited throughout dinner (or whatever you''re planning for the date). And then I''d get the non-engagement gift, and feel really dissapointed. And I''d feel silly that I thought he was actually going to propose.

And then I''d sit there and let my mind do a total tailspin, thinking "we''re never going to get engaged..." "he isn''t on the same page I am!" "what is wrong with me?" "am I making a big mistake by waiting around for him?" etc. I''m sure its different in every case, but my mind tends to spiral from valid, small concerns (i.e. I''m really dissapointed I didn''t get that interview) to giant ones (i.e. I am never going to find a job and I''m going to have to do temp work forever and I''m going to go into bankruptcy and even then I won''t be able to get rid of my student loans and I''ll never be able to afford any kind of house so where will I live...." etc.

But that''s just my crazy mind.

I guess I''m just concerned with the time period between the gift (which she thinks is a proposal but it turns out not to be) and then the actual proposal. I definitely like that you want to keep the surprise, I really want that too whenever it''s my turn, but I just don''t know how to do it effectively so she''s not upset or dissapointed inside in that time period before you actually propose.

One good idea might be to arrange for a very romantic, fancy, special evening out for you 2 on say a Saturday night. Plan something for that night, but be secretive, so she begins to suspect a proposal on that night. But then, plan something for Friday night that is more casual....maybe going out to dinner with a couple of friends. Some sort of nice date, but not something completely out of the oridinary. If you regularly go out to dinner with friends, then tell her you guys are doing something like that, to keep with your regular routine and not tip her off.

You can still choose a nice restaurant or setting, but do it under the guise of "our friends Joe and Jane want us to go out to dinner with them at X (fancy restaurant). Joe won a gift certificate for 4 people." Or "Joe and Jane really want to try this place so I said OK." Or even something like "Joe just got a promotion and he wants us to go out with them to celebrate on Friday." Or something like that. Blame the fancy details or expensiveness (if those are details that might give it away) on your friends. That way she won''t be suspicious you''re up to anything, since she is expecting a proposal on Saturday.

And then....take her to a nice dinner or night out or sometplace romantic (under some sort of false pretense that I mentioned above) but DON''T bring your friends. You can go to the restaurant/area/romantic spot etc. and pretend to wait for them for a little while, so she doesn''t suspect anything, but then you can do your proposal and catch her totally off guard.

Just an idea, but I''d vote for something like that, instead of doing it on the night she''s supposed to expect it....and then doesn''t get a proposal and is upset...and then gets the proposal at the end and is happy. I''m sure it would work if you do it the way you suggested, but doing it some other kind of way might be nicer.

 

[Kaleigh]

I have to say that, that''s pretty clever. Cruel but clever. I think you should do it. She''ll never forget it!!

 

[door knob solitaire]

Discuss you asked...discuss I shall...

Have you seen that commerical....Just kidding.

In the first comment I read PAD's comment as "THAT IS EXTREMELY SICK" ( My first read automatically left out the letter L in slick.) I was cheering him on when I realized he said SLICK...I thought ok...we've got two twisted minds here!!

(dont' send me an avalanche of angry posts...I am telling you my first impression). Then the following repected posters are also on board with your shenanigans, they both are aware you know your lady best and it is so refreshing to see a man put so much energy into the proposal.

My over all take is again the choice of words everyone is using. Cruel Trick, dissapointed, cruel again. I think as much time as you have invested in the trick...you may be overlooking the pain she will undoubtably feel. Granted it is a short time...

I think suprises are what your BRIDE TO BE!! MOTHER OF YOUR CHILDREN!! BEST FRIEND FOR LIFE!!...is all about. Than suprise she shall have. Would you seriously reconsider your angle of attact...and spare her from deliberate ankst you are planning?

You may be walking a narrow plank...I mean you may start the evening with good intentions...and end it all alone and tear soaked faces and hearts that are in need of mending. Not the perfect night you are intending.

Jokes and tricks may have merit...keep them up your sleeves for use later. Make this one clever...and THOUGHTFUL instead of "Cruel" and coninving.

Come on PLANNING FOR GREATNESS....what is plan B?

Repectfully not in agreement,

Door Knob

Oh ps...a shower of gifts for no reason is always a great idea. You can give her the non engagement gifts...that we all like! Not just on the evening of romance...but after mowing the lawn...or after she cooks a meal for you....little box in her lunch box...or briefcase...or uniform pocket...Give her a steady stream of them...then when the real thing comes...she'll be expecting the trinket gift...and BOOM!! She will be blindsided. Shower her with love. See all the excuses she will have to return the LOVE!!

Va va va voom!

(The love...Instead of the ball bat upside da head on your first plan!! Tough call.)

 

[ellewoods]

I agree with you DKS. I like the idea of trying to surprise her with a proposal, but I would try to find a different way to do it than psych her up for a proposal, then you don''t propose, she gets crushed and dissapointed, and then soon thereafter on the same night you propose. Because that tiny bit of time between the non-proposal and the real proposal, well if I was in her shoes I''d probably be going through a range of emotions -- dissapointed, sad, angry, doubtful of the relationship...etc.

I think you can still arrange for it to be a surprise without doing it in that manner, with the chance that she''ll be really sad and upset that night. What if you plan a very romantic Saturday night for her, for example, and let her know you''ll be doing a fancy restaurant, romantic evening, etc. Then she''ll start to suspect a proposal. But then somehow arrange for her to go to lunch on Friday -- like talk to her boss/co-workers and tell them you want to surprise her with a proposal, so maybe they arrange to have some sort of "employee appreciation" lunch, or some sort of excuse to have her go to lunch on Friday to a nice place. But instead of everyone else coming along, she goes there and finds you, and you do a whole romantic special proposal. That way she''ll be super surprised, but she won''t have to go through the angst in the she-thinks-you''re-going-to-propose, but-then-you-don''t, but-then-you-do-a-little-while-later idea.

I know my example isn''t perfect, but I would keep trying to find a good way to surprise her without putting her through an awful period of time when she thought you would propose but you didn''t.

Oh and Door Knob -- when I read that post I thought he said "SICK" (not "slick") as well.

 

[pad3006]

I see your points, I didnt think of it that way and I am sure PFG didnt either. With me personally I know that some of my surprises are foiled b/c she could easily guess what im gonna do, I think PFG would agree.
I was going to do something similar last Christmas but I decided against it partly for the same reasons you all have stated. I was going to tell her that I forgot her gift at home and then have it at the resturant I was taking her to, but I thought she would be dissappointed and she may be embarrassed b/c she is shy. Plus it wasnt such a spectacular gift that it would be worth doing all that for it.
Thanks for the insite.

Phil

 

[PlanningForGreatness]

I would like to remind everyone first of all that the idea submitted was just one CONCEPT I had considered and not necessarily my "Plan A". I too had found it somewhat unsatisfactory to some extent but thought I would see how you could edit, revise, and make the idea more heart-gentle and your input has definitely been helpful. Remember, I have a completely clean slate, I am considering all options and I have nearly 4 months to plan. The only things I''m certain of are a) the week during which I will carry out my plans and b)it has to be perfect, personal, sentimental, memorable, and properly representative of the time, planning and thought that I will invest over the next 4 months. On my slate I have many location options I am considering (first date, kiss, meeting, favorite places, interests... our wonderful history) many planning options... and I want to include all of them, but as you can see once you start going to places with this much nostalgic attachment - and not a whole lot else, these aren''t all really amazingly romantic places in their own merit - it''s going to be difficult to still surprise her.
So thus I had this clearly ill-fated idea about how I could still surprise her and I thought that it might end up badly and especially on hearing ElleWoods reply I was immediately aware of how the emotions that you said you would go through are EXACTLY the same emotions that my wonderfully intricate (not complicated mind you) girlfriend would respond with in rapid succession, and I don''t think I would be able to make it to the real proposal before I had either her ice queen response or her tear soaked face, both of which would be the outward expression of doubting that we were in the same place in this relationship. So that is a total throw away. I think this has been a positive experience because that is one less option that I will consider. One option HAS presented itself to use one of our special places, first kiss specifically, which is way out of the way for me to go to but which I have recently presented with a compelling reason we both should be there. There are of course downsides with this particular location, primarily, it is far from the other locations, so I won''t be able to combine it with the others in the same night. Additionally it''s distance from where we both are usually would make it difficult to discreetly spend a lot of time doing ground work and preparations - if I do a plan closer to home one of my greatest advantages is that in the days leading up to the big day (whenever I choose that should be) I will have oodles of time on my hands to organize, coordinate, and assemble a very worthy network of components to make the night perfect.
So the thing I''m really having problems with is this. I refuse to compromise. I know that there is more to life than the perfect proposal, I really do. However, as I do not have a lot of money, and I cannot buy the most mind-blowing ring (and that is not what she wants), I want to give her the most enviable proposal possible. Every proposal I''ve considered requires compromise and usually that compromise boils down to this:
maximum surprise vs. maximum ummmm we''ll call it "quality"
Comments? Sorry I didn''t give you such a clear discussion topic this time.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think you've answered your own question. If you weren't worried that this plan might well hurt her, you wouldn' have come to us to ask our opinions. My advice is that it's a terrible idea. If I was your gf and you did that to me, when you asked me to marry you, I'd say no, seriously.

Edited to say:
OK, you beat me to it and posted before I could answer. I'm so glad you have listened to all the good advice.
As far as your last question goes - I vote for quality every time.

 

[widget]

Hmmm...I don't think surprise vs quality should be an either/or situation. Seems to me there should be some way to have it all!

Why not take her out one place...shopping at Home Depot for instance... and surprise her by suddenly turning into some romantic restaurant for dinner? So what if you're slightly underdressed?

Or arrange with some friends or family (who are in cahoots, of course) for fancy dinner out, go to the restaurant, and get escorted to an intimate table for two, flowers, special menu, etc etc..and no friends or family in sight..

I guess what I'm trying to say is one way to surprise her is to do it when "romance" is the last thing on her mind.

Just thoughts. I for one, hate the first concept: disappoint her first, then surpirse her...WAY too risky...and a little mean, IMO...

widget

 

[Evie75]

Well I dont think its mean.. Its not like you''re saying "will you marry me " she says yes then you say " JUST KIDDING" you want her to be surprised and thats great... there was a time when i thought my bf was going to propose and he didnt..and i just giggled at myself. im sure if my bf did that to me I would laugh and say yes and call him a little trickster! but thats just me. But if you think that your plan will definately make her KNOW that you are going to propose, just think of something else if you dont want to do the tricky one. DO something your normally do together or go somewhere you''ve been to before..so she doesnt catch on and just romance it up A LITTLE. then sneak it in. I also think that women usually know when the man starts his speach, but I think by then its okay.

But you know her better than anyone. go with your heart.. and GOOD LUCK

 

[pebbles]

Trust me, you will find a way to surprise her!

In all the years I have been with my husband, he has only managed to surprise me once...with a proposal. I knew if he had taken me to the place where we had our first date or our first kiss or somewhere really romantic, I would have completely guessed what he was up to. It doesn''t help that he can hardly keep a straight face when he''s trying to be romantic.

How he proposed to me (and I''m not saying this is how you should, just to give you an example of how he surprised me) was probably not your typical proposal story. We were at his grandmother''s house to pick up his grandma to go out for hers and my birthdays (which are days apart). My now-hubby bought me a new set of golf clubs earlier that day as a birthday present so I really wasn''t expecting anything at all. When we got into the car to leave (it was at sunset) he asked me to hand him his sunglasses from the glove compartment. Inside the compartment was a box. I said (like a dork) "Did you get me those earings I wanted?" He, acting totally giddy, said "Open the box!" and inside there was an engagement ring. Me, still being a complete dork, said "Is this an engagement ring?" He then proceded to ask me to marry him. Well I was screaming and crying (and somewhere in all that I said yes) and was just completely blown away. Was it the most romantic setting?...No. Would I change it for anything in the world?....absolutely not.

He said if he had planned anything "mushy" (as he calls it

) then I would have figured out what was up.

Don''t put too much pressure on yourself. You will come up with something.

 

[ellewoods]

Hi again Planning.

I am very sorry if my response offended you in any way. I totally understood from your first post that you are absolutely crazy about your girlfriend and cannot wait to make her your wife, thus you want to give her the most surprising, amazing, memorable, romantic and special proposal possible. I think that you are an amazing boyfriend/partner in life to understand that women really cherish the romantic stuff in life (esp. the proposal) and you are working so hard to come up with something amazing.

I don''t think that tricking her in some way is totally awful. I think it could work really well. I just think if you tried it from your first approach, your GF may react very badly (even if she doesn''t show it on the outside), and she may be really upset and of course you don''t want her to go through that, even if there will be a proposal in the next 10 minutes.

That''s why I think you can keep the surprise of it all if you do something like plan a romantic night that she knows about. So she''ll be expecting the proposal then (or at least thinking about it, or hoping for it). But BEFORE that romantic night you''ve planned, you propose in some other wonderful, romantic way. That way she won''t be thinking about a proposal -- since she expects it on the romantic night in the next couple of days. My approach isn''t perfect either, but something along those lines would still allow for a big surprise, yet not have to go through the short period of time where your GF may be upset about the lack of a proposal from the first approach.

I''m sorry I can''t think of something perfect, but I have not been proposed to yet so I don''t have any great examples.

I did see a GREAT proposal idea on the news the other night....It may not work for you for a variety of reasons, but I''ll tell about it anyway.

I live in New York, and in Central Park there are many (probably thousands?) of pretty benches. Some are in high traffic areas, some in secluded areas, they''re all around. Well the non-profit organization that runs Central Park is raising money by allowing people to "adopt" a bench. I think it''s about $2,800. Yes very expensive, I know, probably out of the realm of what most people would spend. But anyway....when you adopt a bench they place a small gold plaque on the bench and they''ll engrave it with anything you want. Many people adopt a bench in honor of a relative or friend who has passed on, etc. Ed Koch adopted one in honor of the people of NY. Etc.

Well on the news story a man adopted a bench. He and his girlfriend live in New York and often walk in Central Park. One day they took a walk through the park on a Sunday afternoon, just a normal part of their routine. He led her to the bench he adopted and they sat down. Then he started saying all sorts of romantic sweet things to her, and after he was done he pointed to the plaque, where it said "GIRLFRIEND, WILL YOU MARRY ME?" and it had their names inscribed, and the date. I thought that was sooo cute! And different, and special. And now forever they have that bench to remind them.

 

[PlanningForGreatness]

Elle,
Your reply did not offend at all. I got very negative response to the idea, and that''s ok. I wasn''t looking for rote acceptance, I was trying to survey the female perspective, and I realized very quickly that with most women it would not go over well, and as a matter of fact, your specific reply, and listed emotions that you would go through mirrored exactly what my girlfriend would have gone through (so identically in fact that I checked JUST TO MAKE SURE I wasn''t sharing any of my supersecret proposal ideas with the girl herself - but alas she is not from New York, so I''m safe).

I like your suggestions, I''m just kinda looking for bigger, but the longer I think about it, perhaps bigger is not better. Or perhaps it is. When I was younger I''d heard the idea of a romantic scavenger hunt through the couple''s history and I liked that idea for all the grandeur it provided, but was just trying to find ways to keep the surprise longer than 5 minutes.

The night before idea would have all the surprise, but less of the grandeur.

So I''ve still got a couple ideas which are less of coherent schemes than random ideas I might include:
first the progressive gift scheme:
My beloved loves the combination of brown and aqua. LOVES it. So I make custom brown boxes, perhaps of varnished wood and tie them with aqua (turquoise?) ribbons. Throughout the night we keep discovering boxes, which get smaller and smaller, but which contents get more valuable, each with either gifts or appropriate items in it - i.e. the first box will be large and contain a picnic kit after we complete the kit and go for a walk we discover another box this time perhaps containing a blanket or a quilt that my mom could make (she makes quilts... haven''t asked her to do that for me yet... I''m making this up as I go along..) you get the idea, boxes get smaller, until the last box I draw from my coat, drop one knee and ask the question, and let her untie the ribbon and open the box to reveal the ring.

Second idea (not sure if this is even possible - if it IS possible could be coordinated with the boxes idea... but the whole idea would require clearance and perhaps the greasing of palms), My girlfriend LOVES lighthouses. One of our best trips was a tour of North Carolina lighthouses. Unfortunately we live 500 miles from the nearest coast. In this idea I MAKE her a lighthouse. I have been pondering how exactly to do that and I have what I think is a spectacular idea if I can get permission. We go to the little airport nearby - not the big international one that''s near by, but the much smaller one, where I''ve pre-arranged to not only be let into the traffic control tower, but if possible (and I know this is a HUGE "if") I''ve been allowed to do one of the following to make the tower look more like a lighthouse: 1) Using a floodlight and a custom shade, project the pattern of light and dark onto the tower to make it look like the Cape Hatteras lighthouse, or 2) similarly, hang THOUSANDS of christmas lights in a spiraling pattern around the tower to create the same effect. Once in the tower, while holding each other tight (it will be cold) and looking out at the planes taking off and landing I add to the effect by producing my ipod on which I have programmed ocean sounds... with a twist. After about 6-10 seconds of just ocean sounds I will have my own voice recorded asking "will you marry me?" I will of course know the second in the recording in which the question is asked and will already be on a knee with ring presented. OK so, I know that idea''s very complicated to arrange and flight control towers aren''t known in general for their hospitality for obvious security reasons, but it''s the closest to an inland lighthouse that I could think of. If anyone has any idea of alternative inland "lighthouses" I could use I would be VERY interested to hear them!

Other ideas I am tossing around include roadside slow dancing (just pulling over and slow dancing on the shoulder when they play our song... which I will have requested in advance, of course; we''ve done it before so it wouldn''t give away the surprise) revisiting the site of our first kiss as mentioned before, and buying her a kitten (I HATE cats, and she loves them, and by buying her a kitten, I''m showing I''m willing to sacrifice for the long haul). These of course are all snippets of ideas and not plans in and of themselves.

I know that everyone loves hearing a good true story so I will close with the way my best friend proposed to his bride of 7 months. His beloved absolutely adored movies. The word obsessed comes to mind. So my creative and artistic friend actually made a film in Flash complete with a MPAA warning (where the film was rated SC for super cheesy) and a message to go get yourself a snack from the snack bar. He told her that they were going to this new drive in he had heard about, and like some of Elle Woods'' ideas, it was the night before a big trip where she would have probably expected a proposal. She didn''t exactly know what was going on when they pulled into a parking lot of a tiny little country church where when they pulled around the church he had set up a white bed sheet as a projector screen and had a projector with his movie ready as well as ice cold coca colas and hot buttery popcorn. After watching the first half of the movie which was pictures of them growing up and the early years of them dating (they dated briefly in HS, broke up for 3 years of college, the whole time he pined for her, and then he re-wooed her their junior year of college). the screen went grey, and he actually had the guts to whip out a guitar and sing Coldplay''s Green Eyes to her, or perhaps it was Dave Barnes "Nothing Fancy" or perhaps both. Then the screen said something to the effect of "this film showed our past, but I believe much more lies in our future". And he dropped the knee and proposed. (she obviously said yes). The only thing she was a bit peeved about, and obviously only playfully so, is that he had invited all of her friends and his friends to his house for an engagement party and because she was completely surprised she hadn''t dressed up, even though he dropped hints like "I know it''s just the movies but we should make it like a real date".

Hope you enjoyed the stories. I''m a little nervous about sharing data about my girlfriend on this forum, JUST in case she reads it. I''m hoping she doesn''t, and I don''t think it''s likely. If she does I''m so TOTALLY found out.

 

[Rhapsody]

I really like door knob solitares idea of giving her little gifts over a few days or so. She might start to suspect that the proposal is coming, but she wont know exactly when. You could even include all the places that are meaningful to you that way, take her to a different spot every day, but keep is casual and obvious so she doesnt think too much of it. It does compromise some of the element of surprise but it may be worth it, and the final proposal would be somewhat protected since you had been doing little things all week or month or whatever time frame works.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/2/2005 1:00:08 AM
Author: Rhapsody

I really like door knob solitaire''s idea of giving her little gifts over a few days or so.

Building expectations sounds better than a heart attack! You know... romantic drama, not a thriller

Besides, a few small attentions over a couple of consecutive days would not be all that expensive either. And you will get to express commitment without having to live with a cat for a decade henceforth ...


Don''t worry, the fact that you are asking her is the great thrill anyway. I don''t think you can possibly either improve on it much or spoil the moment. Just don''t leave for a beer 30 seconds afterwards leaving her in the cold (someone else recorded the horror on another thread here

), and it will be great.

Just a random thought, of course...