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A thought about Hangout and how it used to be...

Matata

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AGBF|1485120592|4118189 said:
My first reaction to any call to get rid of political threads (or to "consolidate" them) is why can't posters avoid them? I do not mean to criticize the posters who don't like them, especially thoughtful women like Sharon and diamondseeker, but since some people think they add value, I wonder why the threads are perceived as such a threat. Last night, however, I was pushed into the other camp. I became disgusted with the people who show up and start threads to start drama and then walk away, leaving chaos is their wake. (And I am not speaking of regulars like Matata who contribute intellectually to many threads.) I did not want to participate in any such threads myself and have decided that if there is an isolated political forum where attention seekers such as those who start those threads have no audience, we will be rid of them. I am willing to pay the price of a far smaller forum to have a more intellectual, less bombastic, forum where people do not generally need to swear or post in capital letters in order to make their points.

AGBF
But that means that you will imprison those who want to have thoughtful political discussions in a forum with those you deem attention seekers. And it won't resolve the issue of non political attention seekers posting outside of a political forum. I'd vote for a "All trolls post here" forum instead :))
 

luv2sparkle

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I would love to see political posts have their own sub-forum. I find it disheartening that there are so many political threads in hangout. I wouldn't be surprised if it is bringing 'hangout' down. I don't read most of them but the times I have read them they seem to get pretty mean spirited pretty quickly. The political ones have a tone to me that says 'if you don't agree with me then you must be an idiot'.

I am weary of all of it on social media. Yes, I can scroll past all of them. There are so many that I think people just may not want to post other things here anymore. Hangout does not seem like a very friendly place any more and it doesn't seem to matter much what side of any issue you are on.
 

AGBF

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Matata|1485121813|4118208 said:
AGBF|1485120592|4118189 said:
My first reaction to any call to get rid of political threads (or to "consolidate" them) is why can't posters avoid them? I do not mean to criticize the posters who don't like them, especially thoughtful women like Sharon and diamondseeker, but since some people think they add value, I wonder why the threads are perceived as such a threat. Last night, however, I was pushed into the other camp. I became disgusted with the people who show up and start threads to start drama and then walk away, leaving chaos is their wake. (And I am not speaking of regulars like Matata who contribute intellectually to many threads.) I did not want to participate in any such threads myself and have decided that if there is an isolated political forum where attention seekers such as those who start those threads have no audience, we will be rid of them. I am willing to pay the price of a far smaller forum to have a more intellectual, less bombastic, forum where people do not generally need to swear or post in capital letters in order to make their points.

AGBF

But that means that you will imprison those who want to have thoughtful political discussions in a forum with those you deem attention seekers. And it won't resolve the issue of non political attention seekers posting outside of a political forum. I'd vote for a "All trolls post here" forum instead :))

You are making my head spin, M. Now I am not sure what I have said. I thought I was saying that trolls would be kept out because only posters with lengthy histories posting here would be allowed to post on the new forum. That doesn't mean I would agree with all the posters who opted to post there, but at least they wouldn't be people just dropping by to start fights.

Deb :wavey:
 

kenny

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Intolerant snobs insist everyone is, and posts, just like them. :knockout:
Not everyone wants/needs/cares to be a "properly-speaking intellectual" all the time.
Shame on you who want to silence those you consider inferior to you.

People vary.
Some don't have a stick up their @ss.
Some posters may want to lighten up and have some fun.
Some may resent the oppressive insistence that we all pause before hitting the post button to proofread our post for adequate intellectual content. :nono:

I welcome everyone posting whatever they want, within TOS of PS.
AFAIC, even low-IQ folks are as welcome here at PS as the geniuses with several advanced degrees from the top universities, and conversational manners befitting posh high afternoon tea at The Ritz, London.

What's next, an IQ test and credential verification before being granted posting privileges in the most rarified intellectual forum on the Internet? :roll:

I'm detecting the foul odor of intolerance and superiority. :knockout:
 

Matata

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AGBF|1485122201|4118211 said:
Matata|1485121813|4118208 said:
AGBF|1485120592|4118189 said:
My first reaction to any call to get rid of political threads (or to "consolidate" them) is why can't posters avoid them? I do not mean to criticize the posters who don't like them, especially thoughtful women like Sharon and diamondseeker, but since some people think they add value, I wonder why the threads are perceived as such a threat. Last night, however, I was pushed into the other camp. I became disgusted with the people who show up and start threads to start drama and then walk away, leaving chaos is their wake. (And I am not speaking of regulars like Matata who contribute intellectually to many threads.) I did not want to participate in any such threads myself and have decided that if there is an isolated political forum where attention seekers such as those who start those threads have no audience, we will be rid of them. I am willing to pay the price of a far smaller forum to have a more intellectual, less bombastic, forum where people do not generally need to swear or post in capital letters in order to make their points.

AGBF

But that means that you will imprison those who want to have thoughtful political discussions in a forum with those you deem attention seekers. And it won't resolve the issue of non political attention seekers posting outside of a political forum. I'd vote for a "All trolls post here" forum instead :))

You are making my head spin, M. Now I am not sure what I have said. I thought I was saying that trolls would be kept out because only posters with lengthy histories posting here would be allowed to post on the new forum. That doesn't mean I would agree with all the posters who opted to post there, but at least they wouldn't be people just dropping by to start fights.

Deb :wavey:

My head is spinning too; hopefully in the opposite direction to yours so we don't cause a rift in the force. LOL. I misunderstood the sentence I bolded in your post -- read to mean that you wanted to confine trolls within a political forum. Sorry.
 

AGBF

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kenny|1485122505|4118212 said:
Intolerant snobs insist everyone is, and posts, just like them. :knockout:
Not everyone wants/needs/cares to be a "properly-speaking intellectual" all the time.
Shame on you who want to silence those you consider inferior to you.

People vary.
Some don't have a stick up their @ss.
Some posters may want to lighten up and have some fun.
Some may resent the oppressive insistence that we all pause before hitting the post button to proofread our post for adequate intellectual content. :nono:

I welcome everyone posting whatever they want, within TOS of PS.
AFAIC, even low-IQ folks are as welcome here at PS as the geniuses with several advanced degrees from the top universities, and conversational manners befitting posh high afternoon tea at The Ritz, London.

What's next, an IQ test and credential verification before being granted posting privileges in the most rarified intellectual forum on the Internet? :roll:

I'm detecting a foul odor of intolerance and superiroty. :knockout:

People vary, kenny. Some of us like to speak intellectually. Do you hate us for that? Can we have a place to write here on Pricescope? Or should we have posters make faces at us for our nature?

AGBF
 

AGBF

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I'm returning here to clarify something. When I wrote about people who start threads to seek attention I was most certainly not thinking of people who start threads, including political threads, to enliven Pricescope. If I was unclear about that I understand why kenny would have felt the need to say that sometimes people just want to have fun here. Threads started by Dancing Fire and kenny have been, in my opinion, not only the funniest, but also the most valuable threads on Pricescope. I was not alluding to those; I was thinking of something else entirely. I do not wish to be negative now and spell out what I meant, however.

AGBF
 

E B

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Calliecake|1485117096|4118151 said:
E B|1485114770|4118134 said:
All due respect, ruby, it sounds like you just don't want to see anti-Trump threads. First, it was "can we condense Trump topics?" and now, that there IS a condensed Trump topic (which she doesn't post daily, btw, even if she does label the date she creates it), it's "I don't want to see the word Trumpet," assuming any Trump threads are just meant to "start trouble." Not exactly a reason to ban it/them. Having multiple threads for accessories/pets/photos/personal experiences and just one for everything political/Trump related would be a little crazy.

Trumpet's pretty clever, actually, as it means "to proclaim widely." It's punny.

+1000. EB I love all your posts!!!!

I feel the same about yours! :))
 

Arcadian

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I don't mind political threads...until folk start causing a ruckus. Now, the ruckus I'm taking about has to do with some pretty major baiting. it happens on both sides, not just one, and I'm not taking sides, just stating what I see. The 2 things that get people emotional and crazy is religion and politics... and since we can't discuss religion so politics it is!

Healthy debate is good IMO, I just want the threads to not devolve into some truly nasty stuff like I saw last evening. We have got to do better.

On and I do indeedy read the daily trumpet. those threads are entertaining but informative thanks for starting them Matata.
 

missy

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Matata, just realized I never said thanks for the Daily Trumpet. I enjoy it and look forward to reading it every day. So thank you.
 

the_mother_thing

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kenny|1485122505|4118212 said:
Intolerant snobs insist everyone is, and posts, just like them. :knockout:
Not everyone wants/needs/cares to be a "properly-speaking intellectual" all the time.
Shame on you who want to silence those you consider inferior to you.

People vary.
Some don't have a stick up their @ss.
Some posters may want to lighten up and have some fun.
Some may resent the oppressive insistence that we all pause before hitting the post button to proofread our post for adequate intellectual content. :nono:

I welcome everyone posting whatever they want, within TOS of PS.
AFAIC, even low-IQ folks are as welcome here at PS as the geniuses with several advanced degrees from the top universities, and conversational manners befitting posh high afternoon tea at The Ritz, London.

What's next, an IQ test and credential verification before being granted posting privileges in the most rarified intellectual forum on the Internet? :roll:

I'm detecting the foul odor of intolerance and superiority. :knockout:

I agree with Kenny that not everyone has ample time or desire to research stats, history, provide footnotes, etc. when they post something to every or any thread. Sometimes, it's just an observation, opinion, and that's it; nothing meant to be taken as offense nor groundwork for a constitutional amendment. I sometimes get put-off (not to the point of losing sleep, mind you) when someone is insistent about such sources. That does not mean I personally don't think others can't or shouldn't, nor does it mean I have a negative view of those who do (quite the opposite, actually). Sometimes I pop in to discuss something of importance; other times I just want to give my brain a break from work, tv, or kill time till it warms up to play golf.

But this is HANGOUT; it's not a college class nor a courtroom, and the mods make the rules; not the participants. It's more like a cafeteria - today, I want to sit at the nerd's table; tomorrow, I might sit with the brainiacs. I might skip school Tuesday, return Wednesday, and hang out with the junkies. I am just appreciative to the mods to make room for and tolerate all us hellions. They deserve a medal for providing the service.
 

Calliecake

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Jenn, Your last paragraph had me laughing out loud. So true!
 

the_mother_thing

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This thread is quite ironic to read, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and current events (both in our country and on this board). And I see both sides, as someone who posts in the political threads and someone who agrees with the original request to break those threads out.

We have a group of people who have quite respectfully said, "I don't feel as welcome in hangout because the political threads have really grown so much in numbers and made the community a bit hostile; could they possibly be broken out to a sub-forum on PS/Cafe." And there is another group who have replied "You're trying to exclude me/hamper free speech; it's not as bad as it used to be; it may suck for you now but it could be so much worse; just don't read it if you don't like it."

Consider this:

If a few people who were hearing impaired popped in to where we were all gathered (say, a conference room with 50 people carrying on four different cross-conversations and no open seats) popped in to participate, and they politely asked, "Would it be possible to maybe break out the multiple conversations to two conference rooms vs one so we might be able to sit, hear & participate more", would any one of you (besides Kenny :D ) really respond with "suck it up, it was a LOT worse back when we had 100 people crammed in here; if you don't like it, don't come in; go somewhere else"?

I don't see the two scenarios being all that different, and considering several who have opposed this reasonable request have also preached about inclusion, compassion, tolerance, etc. in other threads, it's actually kind of shocking reading the responses and unwillingness to compromise at all. "My way or no way". :hand:

And as someone who does partake in the political threads, I feel bad that these discussions have made others feel unwelcome; it's a community, not any one's personal pool party. I don't mind (if the mod chooses) making the accommodation in the least. No one is being silenced, having their free speech hampered, being excluded, etc., because you COULD easily come into hangout and read about the latest nail polish/fragrance/celebrity meltdown/etc. at any time.

Just because the Internet affords you the opportunity to be rude doesn't mean you should. I would like to think we are ALL better than that.

$0.02
 

AGBF

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JoCoJenn|1485139695|4118326 said:
This thread is quite ironic to read, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and current events (both in our country and on this board). And I see both sides, as someone who posts in the political threads and someone who agrees with the original request to break those threads out.

We have a group of people who have quite respectfully said, "I don't feel as welcome in hangout because the political threads have really grown so much in numbers and made the community a bit hostile; could they possibly be broken out to a sub-forum on PS/Cafe." And there is another group who have replied "You're trying to exclude me/hamper free speech; it's not as bad as it used to be; it may suck for you now but it could be so much worse; just don't read it if you don't like it."

Consider this:

If a few people who were hearing impaired popped in to where we were all gathered (say, a conference room with 50 people carrying on four different cross-conversations and no open seats) popped in to participate, and they politely asked, "Would it be possible to maybe break out the multiple conversations to two conference rooms vs one so we might be able to sit, hear & participate more", would any one of you (besides Kenny :D ) really respond with "suck it up, it was a LOT worse back when we had 100 people crammed in here; if you don't like it, don't come in; go somewhere else"?

I don't see the two scenarios being all that different, and considering several who have opposed this reasonable request have also preached about inclusion, compassion, tolerance, etc. in other threads, it's actually kind of shocking reading the responses and unwillingness to compromise at all. "My way or no way". :hand:

And as someone who does partake in the political threads, I feel bad that these discussions have made others feel unwelcome; it's a community, not any one's personal pool party. I don't mind (if the mod chooses) making the accommodation in the least. No one is being silenced, having their free speech hampered, being excluded, etc., because you COULD easily come into hangout and read about the latest nail polish/fragrance/celebrity meltdown/etc. at any time.

Just because the Internet affords you the opportunity to be rude doesn't mean you should. I would like to think we are ALL better than that.

$0.02

I agree with every word of this. I have been stumbling around saying that I would be able to accept either solution: remaining in Hangout or being separated again. ksinger told me that the latter course (separation) was a solution in search of a problem because she didn't see the people complaining about Trump threads as having a valid point. But I have, from the beginning, felt that everyone could be happy. Why not? Jenn put it well. For once I agree with her completely.

AGBF
 

the_mother_thing

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AGBF|1485140299|4118334 said:
Jenn put it well. For once I agree with her completely.

AGBF

Quoted for posterity. :D

:wavey:
 

pinkjewel

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luv2sparkle|1485121297|4118199 said:
I would love to see political posts have their own sub-forum. I find it disheartening that there are so many political threads in hangout. I wouldn't be surprised if it is bringing 'hangout' down. I don't read most of them but the times I have read them they seem to get pretty mean spirited pretty quickly. The political ones have a tone to me that says 'if you don't agree with me then you must be an idiot'.

I am weary of all of it on social media. Yes, I can scroll past all of them. There are so many that I think people just may not want to post other things here anymore. Hangout does not seem like a very friendly place any more and it doesn't seem to matter much what side of any issue you are on.

"This" exactly! I rarely come to hangout anymore. I am totally disheartened by the tone which is quickly established in the abundance of political threads...and there are so many of them.

I would love to see a sub forum for politics. Thanks DS for bringing it up!
 

siv1

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A lot of times, you don't know if a post is political from the subject line. Therefore, you can't avoid them. I also think it should be separated. Or everyone that wants to post something political, whether it is jokes or actual news, put POLITCAL in the subject line. That way, it can be skipped over.
 

Matata

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JoCoJenn|1485139695|4118326 said:
This thread is quite ironic to read, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and current events (both in our country and on this board). And I see both sides, as someone who posts in the political threads and someone who agrees with the original request to break those threads out.

We have a group of people who have quite respectfully said, "I don't feel as welcome in hangout because the political threads have really grown so much in numbers and made the community a bit hostile; could they possibly be broken out to a sub-forum on PS/Cafe." And there is another group who have replied "You're trying to exclude me/hamper free speech; it's not as bad as it used to be; it may suck for you now but it could be so much worse; just don't read it if you don't like it."

Consider this:

If a few people who were hearing impaired popped in to where we were all gathered (say, a conference room with 50 people carrying on four different cross-conversations and no open seats) popped in to participate, and they politely asked, "Would it be possible to maybe break out the multiple conversations to two conference rooms vs one so we might be able to sit, hear & participate more", would any one of you (besides Kenny :D ) really respond with "suck it up, it was a LOT worse back when we had 100 people crammed in here; if you don't like it, don't come in; go somewhere else"?

I don't see the two scenarios being all that different, and considering several who have opposed this reasonable request have also preached about inclusion, compassion, tolerance, etc. in other threads, it's actually kind of shocking reading the responses and unwillingness to compromise at all. "My way or no way". :hand:

And as someone who does partake in the political threads, I feel bad that these discussions have made others feel unwelcome; it's a community, not any one's personal pool party. I don't mind (if the mod chooses) making the accommodation in the least. No one is being silenced, having their free speech hampered, being excluded, etc., because you COULD easily come into hangout and read about the latest nail polish/fragrance/celebrity meltdown/etc. at any time.

Just because the Internet affords you the opportunity to be rude doesn't mean you should. I would like to think we are ALL better than that.

$0.02

ADA law guarantees protections for the physically impaired and requires reasonable accommodations to be made to ensure access due in part to the fact that their impairments otherwise limit their options to take actions for themselves. If you are implying that the PSers who want political discussions moved to a sub-forum or those who feel unwelcome because PS seems unfriendly to them are impaired in some way, I acknowledge only that there are people here who are more sensitive to heated discussions than those who are not. And they have options, as has been repeatedly stated, to avoid those threads.

As far as the bigger picture, the unwelcomeness or unfriendly atmosphere that some are feeling has less to do with the topics of discussions than how people respond to them. So the real issue is not the topic, it is the posters. Posters whose style is blunt will post the same way regardless of the topic which means any discussion here can turn heated and there will be those who feel unwelcome. How do I know this? It happens all the time. There are a lot of examples in Hangout and sub forums where threads where the original topic is relatively benign morph into a heated discussion and we have this eternal cycle of people stating they are staying away or leaving because they feel unwelcome and PS is unfriendly.

I think, though some will disagree, that the most feasible solution is for us to remind ourselves that we are adults with varying tolerances sharing a world populated by people who will disappoint us, appall us, make us angry and the only control and protection we have against that is ourselves and how we choose to react.

Some posters have stated they come here to escape from the harsh realities of their world. We carry our world with us where ever we go and asking that the mods and posters keep everything sweetness and light is asking the impossible.
 

the_mother_thing

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Matata|1485190353|4118556 said:
ADA law guarantees protections for the physically impaired and requires reasonable accommodations to be made to ensure access due in part to the fact that their impairments otherwise limit their options to take actions for themselves. If you are implying that the PSers who want political discussions moved to a sub-forum or those who feel unwelcome because PS seems unfriendly to them are impaired in some way, I acknowledge only that there are people here who are more sensitive to heated discussions than those who are not. And they have options, as has been repeatedly stated, to avoid those threads.

As far as the bigger picture, the unwelcomeness or unfriendly atmosphere that some are feeling has less to do with the topics of discussions than how people respond to them. So the real issue is not the topic, it is the posters. Posters whose style is blunt will post the same way regardless of the topic which means any discussion here can turn heated and there will be those who feel unwelcome. How do I know this? It happens all the time. There are a lot of examples in Hangout and sub forums where threads where the original topic is relatively benign morph into a heated discussion and we have this eternal cycle of people stating they are staying away or leaving because they feel unwelcome and PS is unfriendly.

I think, though some will disagree, that the most feasible solution is for us to remind ourselves that we are adults with varying tolerances sharing a world populated by people who will disappoint us, appall us, make us angry and the only control and protection we have against that is ourselves and how we choose to react.

Some posters have stated they come here to escape from the harsh realities of their world. We carry our world with us where ever we go and asking that the mods and posters keep everything sweetness and light is asking the impossible.

Matata - With all due & sincere respect, I think you missed my point. Years ago, there was no ADA, and those with disabilities essentially had to "suck it up". Now we have the ADA, people have legal protections and their lives are better off, as is our workforce & country, are they not?

Maybe a more relative example would be those who champion for the Equal Rights Amendment or the Affordable Care Act; would you tell them to "suck it up; the constitution/laws/healthcare in place are good enough; if you can't afford it/don't feel protected by the law, that's your problem because most of us are covered"?

I somehow don't believe you would.


Disclaimers: 1) I am not implying that those who have expressed their feelings re: political threads are in any way "disabled". 2) My use of the scenarios above do NOT reflect my personal view/opinion about the ERA or ACA, but are intended to illustrate the conversation.
 

Matata

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JoCoJenn|1485192440|4118570 said:
Matata - With all due & sincere respect, I think you missed my point. Years ago, there was no ADA, and those with disabilities essentially had to "suck it up". Now we have the ADA, people have legal protections and their lives are better off, as is our workforce & country, are they not?

Maybe a more relative example would be those who champion for the Equal Rights Amendment or the Affordable Care Act; would you tell them to "suck it up; the constitution/laws/healthcare in place are good enough; if you can't afford it/don't feel protected by the law, that's your problem because most of us are covered"?

I somehow don't believe you would.


Disclaimers: 1) I am not implying that those who have expressed their feelings re: political threads are in any way "disabled". 2) My use of the scenarios above do NOT reflect my personal view/opinion about the ERA or ACA, but are intended to illustrate the conversation.

Jenn I got your point. I don't perceive the gravity of the issues here with the gravity of your examples to be analogous. You are asking me if I view basic human rights on equal terms with people who say they feel unwelcome here due to an unfriendly atmosphere. I do not view them the same.
 

ksinger

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Matata|1485190353|4118556 said:
JoCoJenn|1485139695|4118326 said:
This thread is quite ironic to read, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and current events (both in our country and on this board). And I see both sides, as someone who posts in the political threads and someone who agrees with the original request to break those threads out.

We have a group of people who have quite respectfully said, "I don't feel as welcome in hangout because the political threads have really grown so much in numbers and made the community a bit hostile; could they possibly be broken out to a sub-forum on PS/Cafe." And there is another group who have replied "You're trying to exclude me/hamper free speech; it's not as bad as it used to be; it may suck for you now but it could be so much worse; just don't read it if you don't like it."

Consider this:

If a few people who were hearing impaired popped in to where we were all gathered (say, a conference room with 50 people carrying on four different cross-conversations and no open seats) popped in to participate, and they politely asked, "Would it be possible to maybe break out the multiple conversations to two conference rooms vs one so we might be able to sit, hear & participate more", would any one of you (besides Kenny :D ) really respond with "suck it up, it was a LOT worse back when we had 100 people crammed in here; if you don't like it, don't come in; go somewhere else"?

I don't see the two scenarios being all that different, and considering several who have opposed this reasonable request have also preached about inclusion, compassion, tolerance, etc. in other threads, it's actually kind of shocking reading the responses and unwillingness to compromise at all. "My way or no way". :hand:

And as someone who does partake in the political threads, I feel bad that these discussions have made others feel unwelcome; it's a community, not any one's personal pool party. I don't mind (if the mod chooses) making the accommodation in the least. No one is being silenced, having their free speech hampered, being excluded, etc., because you COULD easily come into hangout and read about the latest nail polish/fragrance/celebrity meltdown/etc. at any time.

Just because the Internet affords you the opportunity to be rude doesn't mean you should. I would like to think we are ALL better than that.

$0.02

ADA law guarantees protections for the physically impaired and requires reasonable accommodations to be made to ensure access due in part to the fact that their impairments otherwise limit their options to take actions for themselves. If you are implying that the PSers who want political discussions moved to a sub-forum or those who feel unwelcome because PS seems unfriendly to them are impaired in some way, I acknowledge only that there are people here who are more sensitive to heated discussions than those who are not. And they have options, as has been repeatedly stated, to avoid those threads.

As far as the bigger picture, the unwelcomeness or unfriendly atmosphere that some are feeling has less to do with the topics of discussions than how people respond to them. So the real issue is not the topic, it is the posters. Posters whose style is blunt will post the same way regardless of the topic which means any discussion here can turn heated and there will be those who feel unwelcome. How do I know this? It happens all the time. There are a lot of examples in Hangout and sub forums where threads where the original topic is relatively benign morph into a heated discussion and we have this eternal cycle of people stating they are staying away or leaving because they feel unwelcome and PS is unfriendly.

I think, though some will disagree, that the most feasible solution is for us to remind ourselves that we are adults with varying tolerances sharing a world populated by people who will disappoint us, appall us, make us angry and the only control and protection we have against that is ourselves and how we choose to react.

Some posters have stated they come here to escape from the harsh realities of their world. We carry our world with us where ever we go and asking that the mods and posters keep everything sweetness and light is asking the impossible.

Thank you Matata. My internet sangfroid is pretty good these days, but yours always eclipses mine. It's better right now that you lead, and I follow.

Yes, what she said. To which I add...

Wanting everyone to be happy, does not take into account human nature for one thing, and assuming that anyone here on PS doing X, can "make" them so, also shows that a lot of people, don't really believe the conventional pop-psych mantra that "Happiness is an inside job". Or they do, but only until the going gets a bit rough.

Back in the day, I confess I used to find myself getting pretty wrapped around the axle at times, by stuff that was said on here. But even at the worst of those times, I NEVER blamed any poster or topic for my emotional state. No once. I owned that, and I darn well knew it, on several levels. If it got too intense, I exited for a while and did some navel gazing about why I was reacting so strongly. It was always instructive, and dare I say it, often uncomfortable and humbling. In more recent times, exiting from sheer boredom has been more the flavor. (Until The Trumpet of course. ;)) ) I never blamed any person or topic for my decisions to break from PS, and it wasn’t ever because I felt unwelcome, even during the most contentious periods here. I certainly did not require that everyone change for me to increase my comfort. I simply said tootles for a while because I wanted to, completely of my own volition. I may have felt angry, hurt, disgusted or any combination of feelings, but no one “made me” feel any of those things. I captain that ship, thanks.

When your happiness and comfort in a voluntarily visited internet forum demands that I (the general I) shield you from all discomfort by changing where I can open certain topics, how many I can open, and restricting the very words that I use to title them, something is badly askew, and it probably isn't the forum layout. I see this push to not have to deal with discomfort (aka inconvenience) of scrolling past stuff you aren't interested in or that might upset you, as not substantively different from the demands of supposedly over-coddled college students who are regularly trashed for demanding a safe space and trigger words. When this is the goal, you are wanting cheerleaders, not challenge. You don't want to actually be in the arena of ideas, you want to declaim from a pulpit, where everyone politely nods and no one asks uncomfortable questions. Democracy is messy, and contentious and always has been. Demanding contentious anything go away, is not wanting to attend the conference and being shut out, it’s wanting to dictate the terms of the conference. It's wanting democracy with its free speech, without the messy and contentious mechanism of actual free speech.

I'm with Matata (no surprise there) on this, be a grown up and take responsibility for your own interior state and reading choices.
 

kenny

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Ksinger :appl:
 

ksinger

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kenny|1485196459|4118596 said:

Yeah, who know we'd end up as besties? ;)) Certainly not us, I bet.

Thanks Kenny, and I mean that a lot. We've not always agreed, but believe me when I say I've learned some valuable things from you over the years.
 

the_mother_thing

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I wonder if some of these opinions were similar to those prior to the Civil Rights Act, ADA, ACA, etc., people who - at the time - didn't see a need for any 'accommodations' because they didn't see/feel/experience/understand what others did. Perhaps it's also shared by the "misogynists" who feel women have ample rights and don't need an ERA; the "xenophobes" who want America safe with common sense security measures; the "homophobes" who say LGBTQ individuals "voluntarily choose" their lifestyle.


For those who have felt uncomfortable or unwelcome in HO due to the political threads, I will pledge to preface any such threads I start with "Political", and I sincerely apologize if any of my posts have contributed toward you feeling unwelcome in HO.


Disclaimer: My use of the scenarios above do NOT reflect my personal views/opinions, but are intended to illustrate the conversation.
 

kenny

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ksinger|1485197491|4118598 said:
kenny|1485196459|4118596 said:

Yeah, who know we'd end up as besties? ;)) Certainly not us, I bet.

Thanks Kenny, and I mean that a lot. We've not always agreed, but believe me when I say I've learned some valuable things from you over the years.


Likewise.

I've always admired you as a very fine person.
You are very bright and, most importantly, think for yourself instead of employing the gang-think so common here. :knockout:
You are not afraid.
I admire that.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I have already stated my views on this, but wish to add one other thing.

At the time that political posts were allowed back on Hangout, Hangout itself was faltering. It is my supposition(aka, Sherlock). that the reintroduction of political threads was made to reinvigorate hangout. I seem to remember the thanks that Andrey got for this move. My feeling is they thought to give it try. I think if they withdraw politics from hangout, it will not suddenly flourish with a new wave of old and new posters, but will revert back to a sparse choice of topics and posters. Only a few people post new topics.The complainers could always start new topics , but magically think they will just appear.

Of course, its up to Andrey. I wish all could be happy, but that isn't possible.

I'm one of the people who call others out at times. When behavior goes beyond rude, someone should call it out. How we are ever to stop the rudeness?

Annette
 

canuk-gal

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ksinger|1485194764|4118585 said:
Matata|1485190353|4118556 said:
JoCoJenn|1485139695|4118326 said:
This thread is quite ironic to read, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture and current events (both in our country and on this board). And I see both sides, as someone who posts in the political threads and someone who agrees with the original request to break those threads out.

We have a group of people who have quite respectfully said, "I don't feel as welcome in hangout because the political threads have really grown so much in numbers and made the community a bit hostile; could they possibly be broken out to a sub-forum on PS/Cafe." And there is another group who have replied "You're trying to exclude me/hamper free speech; it's not as bad as it used to be; it may suck for you now but it could be so much worse; just don't read it if you don't like it."

Consider this:

If a few people who were hearing impaired popped in to where we were all gathered (say, a conference room with 50 people carrying on four different cross-conversations and no open seats) popped in to participate, and they politely asked, "Would it be possible to maybe break out the multiple conversations to two conference rooms vs one so we might be able to sit, hear & participate more", would any one of you (besides Kenny :D ) really respond with "suck it up, it was a LOT worse back when we had 100 people crammed in here; if you don't like it, don't come in; go somewhere else"?

I don't see the two scenarios being all that different, and considering several who have opposed this reasonable request have also preached about inclusion, compassion, tolerance, etc. in other threads, it's actually kind of shocking reading the responses and unwillingness to compromise at all. "My way or no way". :hand:

And as someone who does partake in the political threads, I feel bad that these discussions have made others feel unwelcome; it's a community, not any one's personal pool party. I don't mind (if the mod chooses) making the accommodation in the least. No one is being silenced, having their free speech hampered, being excluded, etc., because you COULD easily come into hangout and read about the latest nail polish/fragrance/celebrity meltdown/etc. at any time.

Just because the Internet affords you the opportunity to be rude doesn't mean you should. I would like to think we are ALL better than that.

$0.02

ADA law guarantees protections for the physically impaired and requires reasonable accommodations to be made to ensure access due in part to the fact that their impairments otherwise limit their options to take actions for themselves. If you are implying that the PSers who want political discussions moved to a sub-forum or those who feel unwelcome because PS seems unfriendly to them are impaired in some way, I acknowledge only that there are people here who are more sensitive to heated discussions than those who are not. And they have options, as has been repeatedly stated, to avoid those threads.

As far as the bigger picture, the unwelcomeness or unfriendly atmosphere that some are feeling has less to do with the topics of discussions than how people respond to them. So the real issue is not the topic, it is the posters. Posters whose style is blunt will post the same way regardless of the topic which means any discussion here can turn heated and there will be those who feel unwelcome. How do I know this? It happens all the time. There are a lot of examples in Hangout and sub forums where threads where the original topic is relatively benign morph into a heated discussion and we have this eternal cycle of people stating they are staying away or leaving because they feel unwelcome and PS is unfriendly.

I think, though some will disagree, that the most feasible solution is for us to remind ourselves that we are adults with varying tolerances sharing a world populated by people who will disappoint us, appall us, make us angry and the only control and protection we have against that is ourselves and how we choose to react.

Some posters have stated they come here to escape from the harsh realities of their world. We carry our world with us where ever we go and asking that the mods and posters keep everything sweetness and light is asking the impossible.

Thank you Matata. My internet sangfroid is pretty good these days, but yours always eclipses mine. It's better right now that you lead, and I follow.

Yes, what she said. To which I add...

Wanting everyone to be happy, does not take into account human nature for one thing, and assuming that anyone here on PS doing X, can "make" them so, also shows that a lot of people, don't really believe the conventional pop-psych mantra that "Happiness is an inside job". Or they do, but only until the going gets a bit rough.

Back in the day, I confess I used to find myself getting pretty wrapped around the axle at times, by stuff that was said on here. But even at the worst of those times, I NEVER blamed any poster or topic for my emotional state. No once. I owned that, and I darn well knew it, on several levels. If it got too intense, I exited for a while and did some navel gazing about why I was reacting so strongly. It was always instructive, and dare I say it, often uncomfortable and humbling. In more recent times, exiting from sheer boredom has been more the flavor. (Until The Trumpet of course. ;)) ) I never blamed any person or topic for my decisions to break from PS, and it wasn’t ever because I felt unwelcome, even during the most contentious periods here. I certainly did not require that everyone change for me to increase my comfort. I simply said tootles for a while because I wanted to, completely of my own volition. I may have felt angry, hurt, disgusted or any combination of feelings, but no one “made me” feel any of those things. I captain that ship, thanks.

When your happiness and comfort in a voluntarily visited internet forum demands that I (the general I) shield you from all discomfort by changing where I can open certain topics, how many I can open, and restricting the very words that I use to title them, something is badly askew, and it probably isn't the forum layout. I see this push to not have to deal with discomfort (aka inconvenience) of scrolling past stuff you aren't interested in or that might upset you, as not substantively different from the demands of supposedly over-coddled college students who are regularly trashed for demanding a safe space and trigger words. When this is the goal, you are wanting cheerleaders, not challenge. You don't want to actually be in the arena of ideas, you want to declaim from a pulpit, where everyone politely nods and no one asks uncomfortable questions. Democracy is messy, and contentious and always has been. Demanding contentious anything go away, is not wanting to attend the conference and being shut out, it’s wanting to dictate the terms of the conference. It's wanting democracy with its free speech, without the messy and contentious mechanism of actual free speech.

I'm with Matata (no surprise there) on this, be a grown up and take responsibility for your own interior state and reading choices.


Oh very well done; yet I am disappointed. (not surprised?? I guess my inside job is bigger than I supposed) Everyone knows that Internet bullying/armchair psychoanalysis isn't complete without an accompanying cry baby picture--I know there are several somewhere here on PS. Kick one up for me please?? Put my name next to it. :))
 

Matata

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canuk-gal|1485200714|4118625 said:
Oh very well done; yet I am disappointed. (not surprised?? I guess my inside job is bigger than I supposed) Everyone knows that Internet bullying/armchair psychoanalysis isn't complete without an accompanying cry baby picture--I know there are several somewhere here on PS. Kick one up for me please?? Put my name next to it. :))

Some of us are endeavoring here today to change what you and others have called out as rude, unfriendly, unwelcome and your contribution is to fan the flames of negativity? I'm sure you'll correct me if I misinterpreted your post as sarcastic and insulting. You've said twice now that you're ready to leave PS because of this negativity and yet here you are adding to the pile.
 

canuk-gal

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Matata|1485201940|4118632 said:
canuk-gal|1485200714|4118625 said:
Oh very well done; yet I am disappointed. (not surprised?? I guess my inside job is bigger than I supposed) Everyone knows that Internet bullying/armchair psychoanalysis isn't complete without an accompanying cry baby picture--I know there are several somewhere here on PS. Kick one up for me please?? Put my name next to it. :))

Some of us are endeavoring here today to change what you and others have called out as rude, unfriendly, unwelcome and your contribution is to fan the flames of negativity? I'm sure you'll correct me if I misinterpreted your post as sarcastic and insulting. You've said twice now that you're ready to leave PS because of this negativity and yet here you are adding to the pile.


Hello cruel world. :cheeky:

I know you don't care about me or my opinion--can't advise you on how you feel.

I truly did miss where "us" are endeavoring to institute change. In my original post I asked what the "objection" to reinstating the ATW forum. You stated you had none. Yet every single post hence, as been to belittle and negate (inside job, grow up, etc etc) and I sincerely don't see any flexibility or new ideas in your posts.
 

kenny

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IMO we should not be attempting to form a posting-manner code.
We vary too much, and you can't herd cats.

When I think a post may violate PS policy I'll report it.
That's it.

I do post my disagreement with ideas, but I never want to censor or change posters (or what or HOW they post) like some here clearly want.
If someone greatly annoys me repeatedly I just quietly put them on ignore.

I'm not going to get on a high horse and hide behind universal morality universal decency or universal manners to try to make PS reflect what is actually no more than my OWN opinion.
 
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