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A thought about Hangout and how it used to be...

december-fire

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Dancing Fire|1485027956|4117652 said:
I am innocent! .. :praise:


And charming and delightful!

You and Kenny must never leave PS. :wavey:
 

diamondseeker2006

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nala|1485026491|4117634 said:
diamondseeker2006|1485026069|4117631 said:
I see no difference between separating Politics from Hangout than I do from separating Colored Stones from Rocky Talky.


If you don't, can you at least counter the arguments that I made?

I don't go into colored stones Bc my interest is in diamonds. But if they were integrated, perhaps I would come upon them and take an interest. I don't actively seek them. Just like some of us don't actively seek a political forum. Yet we don't mind them.

Also DS, as I recall,because you are a very well respected poster here, so I happen to remember your comments, this is not the first time that you say you don't visit hangout and you stick to rt and smtb Bc things can get heated here. I believe you made those comments prior to Politics being brought back to hangout.

Nala, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I was just posting mine and don't intend to debate or argue with anyone. I do have a recollection of making a comment before about not coming to Hangout often anymore, however, I do believe it was after Politics was brought back. I did wait until well after the election to bring this up on purpose.
 

Matata

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canuk-gal|1485026583|4117637 said:
Perhaps you took offense where there was none. NO ONE called you out Matata. In fact NO ONE called you anything at all.

However, you retaliated-- by naming--for a perceived offense when you wrote : coffee klatch, was in context--"Woe is Me", etc. No insinuation there, you stated it outright. How is that tolerant? How does that invite civilized conversation, discussion or debate?

Because one doesn't post on tenacious threads doesn't mean they are not participating. People read and are therefore engaged. Making assumptions--that don't post as they are too delicate--is, well, ......

cheers--Sharon
I didn't take offense. I acknowledged that I am the author of many political threads that some say are driving them away from Hangout. I can't guarantee that I will not ever lose my temper or show disrespect or show intolerance. I will not take responsibility for others' interpretations of what I write. I will take responsibility when I feel I have crossed a line.

From what I've seen these past 2 years, in order to have civilized conversation here, one would have to add a disclaimer to everything one says because there isn't too much anyone can say anymore that doesn't offend someone (apologies if that statement offended someone). So I'm choosing what I consider to be a mature route (disclaimer: not implying that anyone else is immature) and communicate my thoughts as clearly as I can without constant worry that someone may misunderstand.

I will continue to approach discussions with the awareness that the written word can be more easily misinterpreted than oral communication and continue to give the benefit of the doubt to posts that seem at first blush, to me, to be disrespectful or intolerant (disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that what others deem disrespectful and intolerant aren't so, they just may not be so to me). And I will respond to those that don't meet my threshold for civility (disclaimer: not implying that anyone else's threshold for civility is inferior) in a manner in which I feel that poster will most likely relate to.
 

kenny

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december-fire|1485028793|4117661 said:
kenny|1485026586|4117638 said:
So if Hitler got elected you'd still expect discussions about him to keep a 'respectful tone'?
No, Trump's not Hitler, not yet anyway ...
But my point is, staying polite in the face of real real bad things/people is nuts.

We just elected a hateful, bigoted sexual predator to the highest office of the land.

Sometimes outrage and anger are appropriate.
Suppressing an appropriate anger reaction is what children of abusive parents learn.


Expressing outrage and anger is something I've done in the past, present, and expect to do in the future. :))

When discussing a topic with someone, I try to be respectful and not attack the individual on a personal level, but rather discuss facts.

Absolutely, yes.
I try to do that too.
That's my goal and I apologize for failures.

I don't shy away from expressing ideas and my reaction to ideas others present.
Unfortunately the uber-sensitive sometimes takes things personally that were not meant to be personal.
Thick skin comes in handy.
 

the_mother_thing

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Matata|1485030826|4117676 said:
From what I've seen these past 2 years, in order to have civilized conversation here, one would have to add a disclaimer to everything one says because there isn't too much anyone can say anymore that doesn't offend someone (apologies if that statement offended someone).

This is EXACTLY how many on the right (myself included) have felt for quite some time - that every single word is twisted, misconstrued, read into, etc. to project something that was NOT said, intended, or even reasonably inferred. And that is evident by how many on this forum have taken some of Trump's, Pence's, even other PSers' comments, read into it/and twist it up, and respond "so what you mean is ..." NO - I meant what I said.

A perfect example is yesterday when Ruby said she practices (paraphrasing) smart "situational awareness"; she was then accused by another PSer of promoting or supporting "rape culture". :roll: Really? Because she and others choose to avoid situations (e.g. dark alleys, going home with strangers, etc) that - to every other, rationally-thinking person - carry an obvious & unnecessary risk?

I was sure someone would take my response about the WH removing the LGBTQ page from the WH.gov website as me being "anti-LGBTQ", which is why I added a disclaimer. Because my experience has been - when you respond in clarification or opposition to ANYTHING from someone on the left - they typically twist it into some UNstated position you never made or meant, and quickly follow it with a label, such as bigot, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.
 

redwood66

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JoCoJenn|1485032234|4117691 said:
Matata|1485030826|4117676 said:
From what I've seen these past 2 years, in order to have civilized conversation here, one would have to add a disclaimer to everything one says because there isn't too much anyone can say anymore that doesn't offend someone (apologies if that statement offended someone).

This is EXACTLY how many on the right (myself included) have felt for quite some time - that every single word is twisted, misconstrued, read into, etc. to project something that was NOT said, intended, or even reasonably inferred. And that is evident by how many on this forum have taken some of Trump's, Pence's, even other PSers' comments, read into it/and twist it up, and respond "so what you mean is ..." NO - I meant what I said.

A perfect example is yesterday when Ruby said she practices (paraphrasing) smart "situational awareness"; she was then accused by another PSer of promoting or supporting "rape culture". :roll: Really? Because she and others choose to avoid situations (e.g. dark alleys, going home with strangers, etc) that - to every other, rationally-thinking person - carry an obvious & unnecessary risk?

I was sure someone would take my response about the WH removing the LGBTQ page from the WH.gov website as me being "anti-LGBTQ", which is why I added a disclaimer. Because my experience has been - when you respond in clarification or opposition to ANYTHING from someone on the left - they typically twist it into some UNstated position you never made or meant, and quickly follow it with a label, such as bigot, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.

Well you stated that much better than I have. I usually just get tired of it and post something "flippant" because I think the crap is so ridiculous.
 

the_mother_thing

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kenny|1485031327|4117680 said:
Unfortunately the uber-sensitive sometimes takes things personally that were not meant to be personal. Thick skin comes in handy.

UGH THE IRONY! :wall:

When I have suggested the same, I (and others on the 'right side of middle') get accused of being insensitive, intolerant, etc. Not by you - Kenny - but others on here, the media, far-left leaners ...
 

lyra

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What if there was a tag or something in the title like: POLITICS. I don't mind if the threads stay in Hangout, because I think what is said on either side of the line is relevant. Maybe having them clearly marked would help those who don't necessarily want to read them, have a way to quickly avoid them. I don't know if this helps. I don't feel like I have any real right to speak on US politics, so I usually don't say anything, but I do read the threads.
 

E B

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Honestly, and I say this with love, those who think the political discourse HERE is too heated may need to wander out into other areas of the internet. It is downright civilized here compared to places with less moderation. And if the places you usually lurk have political debate consisting of people holding hands and agreeing, you may just be in an echo chamber. This isn't football, this is people's lives. Their experiences. Their traumas. Things that affect their families. It. will. get. heated. It should, if it's any good.

That said, I was around for ATW and it didn't matter that it was a different forum, it got shut down because the kitchen was too hot for some, as the saying (kind of) goes. I don't think it'd be any different this time, either. There's a reason the political threads are the most popular in Hangout, and it isn't because people are forced to participate. It's because the people (the very same who say they're exhausted of the political threads!) keep coming back for more. So don't! There are 400 other nooks here to explore, and millions of more lighthearted topics to post about. There can be peaceful coexistence either way.
 

momhappy

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^But that was brought up as part of the issue - that even if some of us choose not to visit political threads, that the overall tone here has become less friendly. Scrolling past political threads, visiting non-political threads, and/or starting nonpolitical threads doesn't necessarily change the overall tone. I don't know, maybe things will die down in a while and it will become a non-issue (in the meantime, however, people may choose to leave here or visit less frequently).
 

E B

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momhappy|1485033942|4117708 said:
^But that was brought up as part of the issue - that even if some of us choose not to visit political threads, that the overall tone here has become less friendly. Scrolling past political threads, visiting non-political threads, and/or starting nonpolitical threads doesn't necessarily change the overall tone. I don't know, maybe things will die down in a while and it will become a non-issue (in the meantime, however, people may choose to leave here or visit less frequently).

I saw something about that, but maybe I missed a larger example-- have the arguments been bleeding over into non-political topics, or is the issue really that we're afraid we're scaring newcomers to Rocky Talky because of topics in Hangout?

BTW I meant to post that ksinger was dead-on re: ATW. It was the exact same thing over there that people are complaining about here. Some just aren't up for discussing politics in a truly constructive (and that means at times uncomfortable) way, even if they badly want to. Or maybe it takes a little time to get into the deep end. Different strokes.
 

momhappy

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E B|1485034229|4117715 said:
momhappy|1485033942|4117708 said:
^But that was brought up as part of the issue - that even if some of us choose not to visit political threads, that the overall tone here has become less friendly. Scrolling past political threads, visiting non-political threads, and/or starting nonpolitical threads doesn't necessarily change the overall tone. I don't know, maybe things will die down in a while and it will become a non-issue (in the meantime, however, people may choose to leave here or visit less frequently).

I saw something about that, but maybe I missed a larger example-- have the arguments been bleeding over into non-political topics, or is the issue really that we're afraid we're scaring newcomers to Rocky Talky because of topics in Hangout?

No I don't think arguments are bleeding over into other topics (at least that's not been my experience), but I think in some cases, emotions have.
As far as newcomers are concerned, I really don't know - I suppose the politics would appeal to some and not others (not sure how the overall tone might be perceived by newcomers either).
 

E B

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For those who were around during the PS purge of topics we were now no longer allowed to discuss (ATW included), they'll remember that's when participation really dropped. I really only come here for the politics now, but back then, it seemed a lot more dead than it does now.

Someone mentioned that there was 30-odd percent political topics on the front page-- that doesn't seem like it's excessive to me based on what I see elsewhere (but I know, people vary! :cheeky:).
 

Tekate

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diamondseeker2006|1485007654|4117415 said:
I used to enjoy Hangout, but I rarely come here anymore because it is almost all politics. We used to have many interesting, lighthearted, and various other topics here, such as personal issues,etc., but they are mostly absent now.

My wish would be that a Politics forum be reintroduced and have Hangout be politics free. That way we could have Hangout back, and those who enjoy Politics could have their own forum section.

I would stop by sometimes but I don't do my nails, I dont wear perfume except chanel #5, occassionally I would input to someone if I had something to add about marriage etc.. but I much more enjoy it now because it has real substance, Rocky Talk for rocky talk! show me the bling and this are my favs.. I don't go to colored stones as I am not as much a colored stone person as a diamond girl. If one doesn't want to enter the politics then they can skip that thread and move on to cats, perfume and dogs and other things.. I think it's a matter of taste..
 

redwood66

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Tekate|1485035133|4117724 said:
diamondseeker2006|1485007654|4117415 said:
I used to enjoy Hangout, but I rarely come here anymore because it is almost all politics. We used to have many interesting, lighthearted, and various other topics here, such as personal issues,etc., but they are mostly absent now.

My wish would be that a Politics forum be reintroduced and have Hangout be politics free. That way we could have Hangout back, and those who enjoy Politics could have their own forum section.

I would stop by sometimes but I don't do my nails, I dont wear perfume except chanel #5, occassionally I would input to someone if I had something to add about marriage etc.. but I much more enjoy it now because it has real substance, Rocky Talk for rocky talk! show me the bling and this are my favs.. I don't go to colored stones as I am not as much a colored stone person as a diamond girl. If one doesn't want to enter the politics then they can skip that thread and move on to cats, perfume and dogs and other things.. I think it's a matter of taste..

Pish tosh. You just enjoy arguing with me. :mrgreen: I am only kidding of course. I kind of feel the same way if it does not get too nasty.
 

the_mother_thing

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What is/was "ATW"? :confused:
 

redwood66

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JoCoJenn|1485035331|4117726 said:
What is/was "ATW"? :confused:

Around the World
 

Tekate

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diamondseeker2006|1485026069|4117631 said:
I see no difference between separating Politics from Hangout than I do from separating Colored Stones from Rocky Talky. There was formerly a Politics sub-forum here before the topic was banned. I am just suggesting it be reinstated now that political discussions have been allowed again.

To me I would love to see a nail polish subthread, I don't wear it, don't care about it and find it banal.. so I've always skipped over it (and the perfume one)..

Not to put you down at all but this to me is control, trying to control others because they want it 'their' way (whether mine or yours).. I never even knew about Hangout till I read everything every day and started exploring, and I was thrilled to find funny people with very important things to say, things I learned from others..
 

Tekate

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redwood66|1485035220|4117725 said:
Tekate|1485035133|4117724 said:
diamondseeker2006|1485007654|4117415 said:
I used to enjoy Hangout, but I rarely come here anymore because it is almost all politics. We used to have many interesting, lighthearted, and various other topics here, such as personal issues,etc., but they are mostly absent now.

My wish would be that a Politics forum be reintroduced and have Hangout be politics free. That way we could have Hangout back, and those who enjoy Politics could have their own forum section.

I would stop by sometimes but I don't do my nails, I dont wear perfume except chanel #5, occassionally I would input to someone if I had something to add about marriage etc.. but I much more enjoy it now because it has real substance, Rocky Talk for rocky talk! show me the bling and this are my favs.. I don't go to colored stones as I am not as much a colored stone person as a diamond girl. If one doesn't want to enter the politics then they can skip that thread and move on to cats, perfume and dogs and other things.. I think it's a matter of taste..

Pish tosh. You just enjoy arguing with me. :mrgreen: I am only kidding of course. I kind of feel the same way if it does not get too nasty.


I WAS on the debate team in college :wavey: :wavey:
 

the_mother_thing

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redwood66|1485035387|4117728 said:
JoCoJenn|1485035331|4117726 said:
What is/was "ATW"? :confused:

Around the World

TY :wavey:


Tekate|1485036215|4117739 said:
Not to put you down at all but this to me is control, trying to control others because they want it 'their' way (whether mine or yours).

I disagree, and I do participate in these threads (when I have the time). I agree the tone is at times harsh, things get heated, people aren't always civil and sometimes are downright rude & disrepectful, etc., and I enjoy the discussions most of the time; however, I am also considerate of others' and wouldn't want something I enjoy to drive others away or make them feel unwelcome. Shifting politics to a HO sub-forum (if the mods choose) is a reasonable compromise to accommodate the community as a whole that does not restrict anyone's ability to participate if they choose.

It's an opportunity to demonstrate tolerance, respect & compromise, as frequently noted in these very discussions. :D
 

Matata

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JoCoJenn|1485039973|4117770 said:
I disagree, and I do participate in these threads (when I have the time). I agree the tone is at times harsh, things get heated, people aren't always civil and sometimes are downright rude & disrepectful, etc., and I enjoy the discussions most of the time; however, I am also considerate of others' and wouldn't want something I enjoy to drive others away or make them feel unwelcome. Shifting politics to a HO sub-forum (if the mods choose) is a reasonable compromise to accommodate the community as a whole that does not restrict anyone's ability to participate if they choose.

It's an opportunity to demonstrate tolerance, respect & compromise, as frequently noted in these very discussions. :D
Or Hangout could be moved to "pricescope cafe" or even easier for the mods, do away with everything non jewelry related and take PS back to a jewelry-only discussion format. Considering what a headache it must be to monitor all these other categories, I'm surprised they haven't done so already.
 

the_mother_thing

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Matata|1485041793|4117794 said:
Or Hangout could be moved to "pricescope cafe" or even easier for the mods, do away with everything non jewelry related and take PS back to a jewelry-only discussion format. Considering what a headache it must be to monitor all these other categories, I'm surprised they haven't done so already.

You are correct; that's what I meant (cafe); I forgot the site hierarchy. :D

On your second point, I also agree, unless if clicks = ad revenue, in which case, it must be quite lucrative after this election! :lol: :lol:
 

Calliecake

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Dancing Fire|1485027956|4117652 said:
I am innocent! .. :praise:

Honey, You are a lot of things but innocent isn't one of them!
 

canuk-gal

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Matata|1485041793|4117794 said:
JoCoJenn|1485039973|4117770 said:
I disagree, and I do participate in these threads (when I have the time). I agree the tone is at times harsh, things get heated, people aren't always civil and sometimes are downright rude & disrepectful, etc., and I enjoy the discussions most of the time; however, I am also considerate of others' and wouldn't want something I enjoy to drive others away or make them feel unwelcome. Shifting politics to a HO sub-forum (if the mods choose) is a reasonable compromise to accommodate the community as a whole that does not restrict anyone's ability to participate if they choose.

It's an opportunity to demonstrate tolerance, respect & compromise, as frequently noted in these very discussions. :D
Or Hangout could be moved to "pricescope cafe" or even easier for the mods, do away with everything non jewelry related and take PS back to a jewelry-only discussion format. Considering what a headache it must be to monitor all these other categories, I'm surprised they haven't done so already.


Good idea. Keeping within the coffee klatch theme would be a relief for simpletons and those with hangovers. Disclamer: not suggesting anyone who posts here does so carelessly, or drinks alcoholic beverages.

cheers--Sharon
 

texaskj

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Calliecake|1485045541|4117827 said:
Dancing Fire|1485027956|4117652 said:
I am innocent! .. :praise:

Honey, You are a lot of things but innocent isn't one of them!

How many years has it been since you were, DF? :naughty:

Since I work at a newspaper, I've had all the politics I can take.
Pa
too
ie
 

Dancing Fire

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kenny|1485031327|4117680 said:
I don't shy away from expressing ideas and my reaction to ideas others present.
Unfortunately the uber-sensitive sometimes takes things personally that were not meant to be personal.
Thick skin comes in handy.
:praise: :lol:
 

Dancing Fire

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Matata|1485041793|4117794 said:
It's an opportunity to demonstrate tolerance, respect & compromise, as frequently noted in these very discussions. :D[/b]
Or Hangout could be moved to "pricescope cafe" or even easier for the mods, do away with everything non jewelry related and take PS back to a jewelry-only discussion format. Considering what a headache it must be to monitor all these other categories, I'm surprised they haven't done so already.[/quote]


then where do we go to argue about politics?.. :bigsmile:
 

Dancing Fire

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texaskj|1485047197|4117837 said:
Calliecake|1485045541|4117827 said:
Dancing Fire|1485027956|4117652 said:
I am innocent! .. :praise:

Honey, You are a lot of things but innocent isn't one of them!

How many years has it been since you were, DF? :naughty:
:shhh: ..Before you were born???... :wink2: :lol:
 

t-c

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momhappy|1485034653|4117719 said:
No I don't think arguments are bleeding over into other topics (at least that's not been my experience), but I think in some cases, emotions have.
As far as newcomers are concerned, I really don't know - I suppose the politics would appeal to some and not others (not sure how the overall tone might be perceived by newcomers either).

Newcomer here (my first post!); I signed up because of the political threads. I'm glad to have found a place where posts had not completely devolved into name-calling or argument just for the sake of argument. There is still actual discussion here: people directly addressing posts, asking questions, not just talking/posting past each other. Oh sure, sometimes it gets tetchy, but for the most part posts have stayed civil.

I frankly don't know if I would have found these threads if they were sequestered in a sub-sub-forum. It was sheer luck that I clicked on "Diamond Hangout". I've spent the past few days reading through the many threads, and I've enjoyed the wit and banter tremendously. So (having no illusion that my opinion carries any sort of weight here) I don't think the threads on politics should be moved out of Hangout.
 

ericad

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To me, Hangout should be a reflection of whatever people what to talk about which isn't covered by the jewelry sub-forums. I often see many Family/Home/Healthy Lifestyle/Shopping threads posted in hangout, and not in PS Cafe - people don't take the time to search through the underlying drop downs - put politics in there and it will lack visibility, and then the mods will need to also better police Hangout and move anything related to family/health/home/shopping to its appropriate spot in Cafe - what would be left lol? I don't see that really happening now, so only the politics threads would get policed, which would be unfair. The more complex the hierarchy, the less people will participate.

I regularly skip right on past thread titles that don't interest me. That's much simpler than having to search 7 different sub-forums for something of interest. I'm more into inclusion than divisiveness and Hangout has always been a reflection of what's going on in the media, the popular culture and the world.

If people really want separation, my suggestion is to replace the word "Cafe" with "Hangout", eliminating hangout as it's own forum, and then have Hangout sub-forums for everything, including politics and threads asking for prayers. Like Family, Health, Home, Shopping, Prayer/Healing, Politics, Pets, In the News, Entertainment, etc. That way, for every new thread one must decide what section it belongs in (omit all vague or "catch all" forums), and when we want to read in Hangout, we can go to the subject matter that interests us.

The alternative, to me, would be to eliminate all of the Cafe sub-forums and just put everything non-jewelry into a catch all forum called "Hangout". By eliminating the sub-forums, there will be lots for people to scroll through and choose from.
 
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