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A thought about Hangout and how it used to be...

december-fire

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Matata|1485021854|4117547 said:
december-fire|1485020896|4117535 said:
I love learning, hearing other people's opinions, etc., but I have no desire to get pounced on or attacked and engage in a never-ending attempt to justify my opinion. Discussions are one thing, but bullying, disrespect, and being tossed into the 'ignorant' bin for disagreeing with another's opinion - no, thanks.

Hmmm, perhaps just showing my age by wishing for a more respectful tone and society. :angel:
I think one of the things that happens in the highly charged discussions here is that we get hung up on how people label themselves. Liberal, liberal-elite, "insert religious belief of your choice", etc. causes people to view a person within the stereotyped definition of that particular label. I often wonder if or how discussions would change if we just stopped with the labeling. Instead of hurling "liberal" or "christian" (of which I'm guilty) at someone as an insult, we just say "I believe" or "I think" and not self-identify an affiliation. As soon as someone calls someone else a conservative or a liberal, the conversation turns ugly as posters rail against, not a particular posters ideas, but the stereotype associated with the label.

Yes, I think labels, and the interpretation of a label, can be an issue.

I've seen someone make a statement - one sentence - and have a label thrown at them. In that case, the person was deemed to be someone who doesn't care about animals. For goodness sakes, people, life isn't so cut and dry that we all fit into rigidly-constructed boxes sorted by specific views and beliefs. We're a wee bit too complex and multi-faceted for that kind of categorization.

This from the person who above assumed it was a 'woman' who called Melania 'fat'. :lol:
Yup, I'm guilty of thinking that some women can be mean and petty towards other women.

Diamondseeker2006,
My apologies for getting off-topic. But when I shook my head at the TV this morning and gave it my opinion, it didn't react. Here, I feel like I might get heard. :angel:
That being said, I'm not about to express the views I made to my TV. All heck would break out with my very-unpopular opinions about what's going on in the World. ;))
 

kenny

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I don't understand.
Just don't open threads you don't like.

I don't like censorship, except for spam and ****.
 

canuk-gal

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HI:

Sorry but KS and Matata makes the point. And it didn't take long.

Labeling, calling out (threads) and name calling.: "Delikate" , Coffee Klatch, etc.

Easiest thing to do--and yet no one here knows a thing about "me".

cheers--Sharon
 

Matata

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JoCoJenn|1485022411|4117560 said:
But more importantly, think about how someone new to PS would feel popping in here for the first time and reading some of the mean-spirited, hateful, bullying things longtime memebers (some being the same also offering diamond/gemstone advice) have posted in these political threads. I do feel it may reflect negatively on the forum as a whole, and consequently, the advertisers; after all, it's natural to wonder about the advice someone might give who just crudely disparaged someone else's beliefs and feelings.
That argument won't hold up to scrutiny. Gypsy had the reputation for being brutally direct, she acknowledges this, and yet she was one of the most valued posters in Rocky-Talky.

And perhaps it was before your time, but some of the discussions in RT and Hangouts wherein Garry (who used to be part-owner of PS, don't know if that is still true) and several of the venders would tear each others throats out about things they disagreed with. It was, to quote our new president, "carnage."

I'm not trying to justify that behavior. Just saying that to those of us who have been here a long time, this place is gentle compared to the past.

I have no issue with those who want discussions to be polite and respectful. So to that end, we should develop definitions of those words that suit the majority here. Otherwise what seems brutal and horrid to some will be seen as straight-shooting from others.
 

kenny

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canuk-gal|1485019834|4117523 said:
Matata|1485019518|4117517 said:
Since I am the one primarily posting political threads, here are my thoughts. What you are really complaining about is the lack of topics that interest you and the enjoyment of others participating in discussions you don't like. So post topics that interest you. If you look at the first 4 or so pages of Hangouts, you can easily see which topics get the most traffic outside of politics -- perfumes, movies, books, pets, nature, nail polish and a few others. So you apparently aren't interested in reading or participating in those topics on a regular basis either.

I just don't understand why those of you who oppose political threads being merged in Hangouts find it difficult to scroll down through any threads you don't like and read/participate in the ones you do like.

And if you want to be fair about it, what of those of us who find it unappealing to see threads that used to dominate Hangouts? Those that go on for pages about some personal/tragic incident befalling a member where there are tons of the same advice repeated over and over and over and all of the participating posters share their own similar experiences and it becomes a giant coffee klatch of woe-is-me from people who seem to have a difficult time dealing with any glitch life throws their way.

Do people who think those posts are boring or too personal and revealing consistently whine about them or make harsh comments in them? I can tell you that there were times I wanted to scream from the inaneness of some of them. So guess what I did? I stopped reading them, scrolled right past them, and respected the choices of others to post stuff I didn't like and wasn't interested in.



Matata: for a long while there was a political forum here on PS--why not entreat the Mods to reinstate it? What could be the objection?

cheers--Sharon

Fewer eyeballs ............ translation: Boring!
 

the_mother_thing

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kenny|1485023111|4117583 said:
I don't like censorship, except for spam and ****.

It's not censorship; it's "community organizing". :D
 

Matata

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canuk-gal|1485023177|4117584 said:
HI:

Sorry but KS and Matata makes the point. And it didn't take long.

Labeling, calling out (threads) and name calling.: "Delikate" , Coffee Klatch, etc.

Easiest thing to do--and yet no one here knows a thing about "me".

cheers--Sharon

Definition: coffee klatch. or coffee klatsch also kaf·fee·klatsch (kŏf′ē-klăch′, -kläch′, kô′fē-) n. A casual social gathering for coffee and conversation.

You find that offensive?! :-o
 

kenny

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ksinger|1485019969|4117525 said:
... the real goal here is to get those who disagree with them, to just shut up.

screen_shot_2017-01-21_at_3.png
 

the_mother_thing

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kenny|1485023467|4117594 said:
ksinger|1485019969|4117525 said:
... the real goal here is to get those who disagree with them, to just shut up.

I didn't see anyone suggest that political discussions cease. :confused:
 

Dee*Jay

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I have always thought of Hangout as a forum of discussion for topics other than diamonds and bling (as that is what RT and SMTB are primarily for) that were of interest to us. As we are in a heated political time it is only natural that the the topics of interest to many of us right now are political in nature. There is nothing preventing someone from posting or participating in threads of others topics and there is also nothing forcing people to open or participate in threads they find (or believe they will find) to be distressing.

As an aside, there is a Family and Home sub-forum and a Healthy Lifestyle sub-forum but I have seen several threads in Hangout related to those areas and I don't recall anyone complaining about that.
 

december-fire

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kenny|1485023467|4117594 said:
ksinger|1485019969|4117525 said:
... the real goal here is to get those who disagree with them, to just shut up.


I'll get another coffee and see if my brain wakes up, but for now I'm confused.

I actually had to go back and read ksinger's post a couple of times to find that quoted piece.

Someone having an opinion or making a suggestion is not the same as saying 'being quiet'.
 

kenny

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People talk about what's important to them.

The political storm in American is a huge deal.
It affects us all and was a total surprise.
Naturally people are going to talk about it.

I want to hear what people have to say.
I want to say what I have to say.
IMO nothing could be more interesting and important ... at least to thoughtful people who care.

It's so very important that people get passionate.
I do not want to censor HO, or move politics to another forum since fewer eyeballs means it will just die or evaporate down to 2 or 3 posters.

Sure, people get wound up.
So what?
That doesn't knock me off my bicycle.
In fact, it makes for reading that is more interesting, not reading that repels me.
Do you really have to control others around you so HO turns into idealized robots like in that film, The Stepford Wives?
Do we really have to turn into the characters on those 50s family shows, Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, The Donna Reed Show?
Why does it upset people that people are upset about something real and important?
I don't get it.

I just can't understand how people get upset about upset people posting.
 

ruby59

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Matata|1485023185|4117585 said:
JoCoJenn|1485022411|4117560 said:
But more importantly, think about how someone new to PS would feel popping in here for the first time and reading some of the mean-spirited, hateful, bullying things longtime memebers (some being the same also offering diamond/gemstone advice) have posted in these political threads. I do feel it may reflect negatively on the forum as a whole, and consequently, the advertisers; after all, it's natural to wonder about the advice someone might give who just crudely disparaged someone else's beliefs and feelings.
That argument won't hold up to scrutiny. Gypsy had the reputation for being brutally direct, she acknowledges this, and yet she was one of the most valued posters in Rocky-Talky.

And perhaps it was before your time, but some of the discussions in RT and Hangouts wherein Garry (who used to be part-owner of PS, don't know if that is still true) and several of the venders would tear each others throats out about things they disagreed with. It was, to quote our new president, "carnage."

I'm not trying to justify that behavior. Just saying that to those of us who have been here a long time, this place is gentle compared to the past.

I have no issue with those who want discussions to be polite and respectful. So to that end, we should develop definitions of those words that suit the majority here. Otherwise what seems brutal and horrid to some will be seen as straight-shooting from others.

I thought it was the opposite in the olden days, especially under the other owners. One wrong word and you were gone forever.
You had to be so careful with everything you posted here.
 

Matata

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missy|1485022749|4117575 said:
Matata|1485021854|4117547 said:
december-fire|1485020896|4117535 said:
I love learning, hearing other people's opinions, etc., but I have no desire to get pounced on or attacked and engage in a never-ending attempt to justify my opinion. Discussions are one thing, but bullying, disrespect, and being tossed into the 'ignorant' bin for disagreeing with another's opinion - no, thanks.

Hmmm, perhaps just showing my age by wishing for a more respectful tone and society. :angel:
I think one of the things that happens in the highly charged discussions here is that we get hung up on how people label themselves. Liberal, liberal-elite, "insert religious belief of your choice", etc. causes people to view a person within the stereotyped definition of that particular label. I often wonder if or how discussions would change if we just stopped with the labeling. Instead of hurling "liberal" or "christian" (of which I'm guilty) at someone as an insult, we just say "I believe" or "I think" and not self-identify an affiliation. As soon as someone calls someone else a conservative or a liberal, the conversation turns ugly as posters rail against, not a particular posters ideas, but the stereotype associated with the label.

Yes labeling people can be inflammatory.

Matata said:
Since I am the one primarily posting political threads, here are my thoughts. What you are really complaining about is the lack of topics that interest you and the enjoyment of others participating in discussions you don't like. So post topics that interest you. If you look at the first 4 or so pages of Hangouts, you can easily see which topics get the most traffic outside of politics -- perfumes, movies, books, pets, nature, nail polish and a few others. So you apparently aren't interested in reading or participating in those topics on a regular basis either.

I just don't understand why those of you who oppose political threads being merged in Hangouts find it difficult to scroll down through any threads you don't like and read/participate in the ones you do like.

And if you want to be fair about it, what of those of us who find it unappealing to see threads that used to dominate Hangouts? Those that go on for pages about some personal/tragic incident befalling a member where there are tons of the same advice repeated over and over and over and all of the participating posters share their own similar experiences and it becomes a giant coffee klatch of woe-is-me from people who seem to have a difficult time dealing with any glitch life throws their way.

Do people who think those posts are boring or too personal and revealing consistently whine about them or make harsh comments in them? I can tell you that there were times I wanted to scream from the inaneness of some of them. So guess what I did? I stopped reading them, scrolled right past them, and respected the choices of others to post stuff I didn't like and wasn't interested in.

I think (see what I did there) this is a labeling and a contemptuous one at that. That is the feeling I got from reading what you wrote Matata.

Yes, so you get the part of the point I was trying to make. I'm not particularly happy having people say that Hangout is dying because of the proliferation of political threads (which I took as a direct message to me because I'm the generator of most of them) so I gave my reaction to what I feel about some of the other topics. But I have never suggested that those topics be expunged or that we create a "personal issues" forum or that Hangout is dying because of the other topics or that I don't come here because of those topics. I stopped coming to Hangout for months because I found nothing I wanted to participate in and lacked the interest to start threads, but I didn't advertise it. What is the point of that? I just stayed away. The important part of the point I tried to make is bolded and italicized above.
 

Kaleigh

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I agree Diamondseeker. I don't love the politics either. I think we have to make an effort to put up more threads like we used to have. But if people are clearly more interested in all things political, then that what it is....
 

nala

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I am of the opposite opinion and I hope mods do not revert back to another forum for politics.

I actually enjoy reading these threads Bc they provoke me to challenge my own views. It's difficult to discuss politics with actual people Bc of the emotions, but regardless of how heated and nasty some may say it can get here, it's better than having these discussions in person. This forum allows many of us to vent safely.

You might argue that I could search these topics in a different forum. But that's the thing; I doubt many would follow, especially since the pattern for these threads seems to be the same posters (love you Matata!!!!) and the same dissenters who go out of their way to say they didn't vote for Trump yet find every thread to show positive support for him ( you know who you are, no doubt you will be biting my head off in a few) and then there are people like me, who occasionally are inspired and provoked to comment ( the lurkers). So my fear is that changing the forum will result in changing the participants Bc two of these three seem to come upon these threads and then participate, while only one group is great at creating threads that, judging by the numbers, many of us enjoying reading.

As to the hostile nature of this forum. I'm by no means an old timer, but unless a thread is about Kitties or one that Missy and Junebug( I love you ladies! You are the epitome of kind!) are starting, any thread can get nasty here. The nature of the beast. To pile on each other if someone disagrees. Even if it is a personal advice thread.

So Ella, I do hope you consider my view before you switch forums, Bc I may be the only lurker who is posting. Also, please keep in mind that many women who are political might be busy with women's marches today!!!! So they are not exactly reading this thread!!!
 

Matata

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Let's all stop and think for a minute about how difficult it is for PS owners and mods to try to satisfy the differing needs and points of view of all its members. I am grateful that they have accommodated us in so many different ways over the years.

I don't know that the solution to who is offended by what is. I truly don't. Because I am perplexed by what some think is offensive and others think is ok. I am equally perplexed by the shifting roles of the accusers and the accused.
 

AGBF

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Matata|1485019518|4117517 said:
Since I am the one primarily posting political threads, here are my thoughts. What you are really complaining about is the lack of topics that interest you and the enjoyment of others participating in discussions you don't like. So post topics that interest you. If you look at the first 4 or so pages of Hangouts, you can easily see which topics get the most traffic outside of politics -- perfumes, movies, books, pets, nature, nail polish and a few others. So you apparently aren't interested in reading or participating in those topics on a regular basis either.

I just don't understand why those of you who oppose political threads being merged in Hangouts find it difficult to scroll down through any threads you don't like and read/participate in the ones you do like.

And if you want to be fair about it, what of those of us who find it unappealing to see threads that used to dominate Hangouts? Those that go on for pages about some personal/tragic incident befalling a member where there are tons of the same advice repeated over and over and over and all of the participating posters share their own similar experiences and it becomes a giant coffee klatch of woe-is-me from people who seem to have a difficult time dealing with any glitch life throws their way.

Do people who think those posts are boring or too personal and revealing consistently whine about them or make harsh comments in them? I can tell you that there were times I wanted to scream from the inaneness of some of them. So guess what I did? I stopped reading them, scrolled right past them, and respected the choices of others to post stuff I didn't like and wasn't interested in.

I love your post, M, but isn't it "inanity"? Perhaps "inaneness" is also allowed. I will go look it up. I do enjoy grammar threads a lot. We haven't had many of those lately. ;))

Deb :wavey:
 

diamondseeker2006

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december-fire|1485020896|4117535 said:
diamondseeker2006,

I only know you though reading your posts on PS, and you've always given me the impression of being a considerate, thoughtful, knowledgeable and respectful individual. You and others like you are why I've enjoyed PS so much.

I would love to see more non-political threads in Hangout, or have the political ones grouped so that its easier to zoom in on them or ignore them, based on one's preference.

I've read the obvious response of 'if you don't like it, don't read it' and, yes, that's true.

Also true that if I want to see more non-political threads then I'm free to start such threads.

Whether the topic is politics or not, what I find sad and disheartening are comments in PS and the media that I perceive as bullying, intolerance for differing opinions, and disrespect. Earlier this morning, I read a nasty article in the media about the dress worn by Mrs. Pence. Honestly, what is wrong with people? What would make a person think its appropriate to write such a hurtful thing - and about a non-issue; by the way, the article was written by a woman.

I love learning, hearing other people's opinions, etc., but I have no desire to get pounced on or attacked and engage in a never-ending attempt to justify my opinion. Discussions are one thing, but bullying, disrespect, and being tossed into the 'ignorant' bin for disagreeing with another's opinion - no, thanks.

Hmmm, perhaps just showing my age by wishing for a more respectful tone and society. :angel:

Thank you! And I am 100% in agreement in regard to your last sentence, especially (and everything else)!!!!
 

nala

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I want to add that I don't think it's an effort to scroll past threads that you don't like, nor is it an effort to enter another forum. I think is funny how some portray these actions as Herculean efforts. My concern is that many newbies who come to PS do so Bc of diamonds. Those who stay, eventually explore and wind up in hangout Bc it is not labeled! And some, who might have been raised to avoid discussing politics bc of the heated emotions, might never venture into that forum. It's a lot more inviting to just come upon these threads and to read others views. So I reiterate, changing forums might bring down participation and I think that is a steeper price to pay than asking some to scroll down and ignore.
And yes, there is plenty positive in smtb, and plenty of space to start your own thread!
 

diamondseeker2006

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I see no difference between separating Politics from Hangout than I do from separating Colored Stones from Rocky Talky. There was formerly a Politics sub-forum here before the topic was banned. I am just suggesting it be reinstated now that political discussions have been allowed again.
 

kenny

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diamondseeker2006|1485026069|4117631 said:
I see no difference between separating Politics from Hangout than I do from separating Colored Stones from Rocky Talky.

When was your last eye exam? :sun:
 

nala

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diamondseeker2006|1485026069|4117631 said:
I see no difference between separating Politics from Hangout than I do from separating Colored Stones from Rocky Talky.


If you don't, can you at least counter the arguments that I made?

I don't go into colored stones Bc my interest is in diamonds. But if they were integrated, perhaps I would come upon them and take an interest. I don't actively seek them. Just like some of us don't actively seek a political forum. Yet we don't mind them.

Also DS, as I recall,because you are a very well respected poster here, so I happen to remember your comments, this is not the first time that you say you don't visit hangout and you stick to rt and smtb Bc things can get heated here. I believe you made those comments prior to Politics being brought back to hangout.
 

canuk-gal

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Matata|1485024514|4117611 said:
missy|1485022749|4117575 said:
Matata|1485021854|4117547 said:
december-fire|1485020896|4117535 said:
I love learning, hearing other people's opinions, etc., but I have no desire to get pounced on or attacked and engage in a never-ending attempt to justify my opinion. Discussions are one thing, but bullying, disrespect, and being tossed into the 'ignorant' bin for disagreeing with another's opinion - no, thanks.

Hmmm, perhaps just showing my age by wishing for a more respectful tone and society. :angel:
I think one of the things that happens in the highly charged discussions here is that we get hung up on how people label themselves. Liberal, liberal-elite, "insert religious belief of your choice", etc. causes people to view a person within the stereotyped definition of that particular label. I often wonder if or how discussions would change if we just stopped with the labeling. Instead of hurling "liberal" or "christian" (of which I'm guilty) at someone as an insult, we just say "I believe" or "I think" and not self-identify an affiliation. As soon as someone calls someone else a conservative or a liberal, the conversation turns ugly as posters rail against, not a particular posters ideas, but the stereotype associated with the label.

Yes labeling people can be inflammatory.

Matata said:
Since I am the one primarily posting political threads, here are my thoughts. What you are really complaining about is the lack of topics that interest you and the enjoyment of others participating in discussions you don't like. So post topics that interest you. If you look at the first 4 or so pages of Hangouts, you can easily see which topics get the most traffic outside of politics -- perfumes, movies, books, pets, nature, nail polish and a few others. So you apparently aren't interested in reading or participating in those topics on a regular basis either.

I just don't understand why those of you who oppose political threads being merged in Hangouts find it difficult to scroll down through any threads you don't like and read/participate in the ones you do like.

And if you want to be fair about it, what of those of us who find it unappealing to see threads that used to dominate Hangouts? Those that go on for pages about some personal/tragic incident befalling a member where there are tons of the same advice repeated over and over and over and all of the participating posters share their own similar experiences and it becomes a giant coffee klatch of woe-is-me from people who seem to have a difficult time dealing with any glitch life throws their way.

Do people who think those posts are boring or too personal and revealing consistently whine about them or make harsh comments in them? I can tell you that there were times I wanted to scream from the inaneness of some of them. So guess what I did? I stopped reading them, scrolled right past them, and respected the choices of others to post stuff I didn't like and wasn't interested in.

I think (see what I did there) this is a labeling and a contemptuous one at that. That is the feeling I got from reading what you wrote Matata.

Yes, so you get the part of the point I was trying to make. I'm not particularly happy having people say that Hangout is dying because of the proliferation of political threads (which I took as a direct message to me because I'm the generator of most of them) so I gave my reaction to what I feel about some of the other topics. But I have never suggested that those topics be expunged or that we create a "personal issues" forum or that Hangout is dying because of the other topics or that I don't come here because of those topics. I stopped coming to Hangout for months because I found nothing I wanted to participate in and lacked the interest to start threads, but I didn't advertise it. What is the point of that? I just stayed away. The important part of the point I tried to make is bolded and italicized above.


Perhaps you took offense where there was none. NO ONE called you out Matata. In fact NO ONE called you anything at all.

However, you retaliated-- by naming--for a perceived offense when you wrote : coffee klatch, was in context--"Woe is Me", etc. No insinuation there, you stated it outright. How is that tolerant? How does that invite civilized conversation, discussion or debate?

Because one doesn't post on tenacious threads doesn't mean they are not participating. People read and are therefore engaged. Making assumptions--that don't post as they are too delicate--is, well, ......

cheers--Sharon
 

kenny

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So if Hitler got elected you'd still expect discussions about him to keep a 'respectful tone'?
No, Trump's not Hitler, not yet anyway ...
But my point is, staying polite in the face of real real bad things/people is nuts.

We just elected a hateful, bigoted sexual predator to the highest office of the land.

Sometimes outrage and anger are appropriate.
Suppressing an appropriate anger reaction is what children of abusive parents learn.
 

AGBF

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Frankly, I wish everyone could be happy. I do not, personally, mind whether politics remains in Hangout or is separated again. I just wish that people were not so dissatisfied with the current situation in Hangout. It makes me unhappy that others are unhappy. I would rather go elsewhere than to leave a mass of Pricescopers unhappy because I enjoy discussing politics. I think that diamondseeker's writing on the subject, and Sharon's, is very well put.

However, nala's postings have given me pause. I think they are very well-written and thoughtful. If I were a newcomer, the political threads would certainly draw me into Pricescope! I guess it is a good thing I am not the owner of the website or the moderator.

Hi, Andrey! (Hi, Ella!)

Deb :wavey:
 

Phoenix

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I, too, have noticed a recent slowdown of traffic in HO specifically and in PS in general. I don't know if the slowdown is caused by the proliferation of political threads in HO these days; perhaps it is, perhaps because of the perceived "negative tone", perhaps it isn't - who knows?!

Whilst I agree with December-fire and wish for more respect and tolerance, I have always enjoyed (though not participated in) political threads. Furthermore, like Kenny said, there's a political storm brewing. What's going on now affects, hugely, not just America but the rest of the world and I read these political threads and other news elsewhere with great interest. It is natural that some people get upset and discussions get heated, when it comes to politics and particularly now.

I like that I can go to HO and read about things like nails, beauty, kittens etc and at the same time satisfy my thirst for political discussions. I suspect I'm not the only one.

So, I love you, DS; but moving politics to another sub-forum would result in "fewer eyeballs" (per Kenny). My vote is a nay on moving politics elsewhere.
 

december-fire

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nala|1485025588|4117625 said:
I want to add that I don't think it's an effort to scroll past threads that you don't like, nor is it an effort to enter another forum. I think is funny how some portray these actions as Herculean efforts. My concern is that many newbies who come to PS do so Bc of diamonds. Those who stay, eventually explore and wind up in hangout Bc it is not labeled! And some, who might have been raised to avoid discussing politics bc of the heated emotions, might never venture into that forum. It's a lot more inviting to just come upon these threads and to read others views. So I reiterate, changing forums might bring down participation and I think that is a steeper price to pay than asking some to scroll down and ignore.
And yes, there is plenty positive in smtb, and plenty of space to start your own thread!

nala,

That's an interesting observation, and one that would never have occurred to me. I was never discouraged from debating or questioning ideas or beliefs, regardless of the topic. Factual, logical discussions, expressing different opinions or conclusions were fine. Discussions were respectful and didn't disintegrate into unproductive name-calling or rudeness. Strong opinions and heated, emotional debates don't have to deteriorate and become personal attacks.

I confess that your observation, while quite valid, had me imagining men of ancient times talking about ladies being too delicate to discuss such matters as politics and finance. I suddenly felt quite youthful! :lol:

I'm not making fun of your comment.

And for the record, I don't believe that women in history were delicate or incapable.
 

Dancing Fire

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I am innocent! .. :praise:
 

december-fire

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kenny|1485026586|4117638 said:
So if Hitler got elected you'd still expect discussions about him to keep a 'respectful tone'?
No, Trump's not Hitler, not yet anyway ...
But my point is, staying polite in the face of real real bad things/people is nuts.

We just elected a hateful, bigoted sexual predator to the highest office of the land.

Sometimes outrage and anger are appropriate.
Suppressing an appropriate anger reaction is what children of abusive parents learn.


Expressing outrage and anger is something I've done in the past, present, and expect to do in the future. :))

When discussing a topic with someone, I try to be respectful and not attack the individual on a personal level, but rather discuss facts.
 
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