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If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Americans

ruby59

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

jordyonbass|1484264279|4114874 said:
ruby59|1484262734|4114868 said:
Thank you , Jordy.

Does everyone pay the same tax or is it based on income?

Is it manageable for the average family?

And to be clear, once you pay that tax, all doctor visits are free?

What about hospitals? If you need surgery?

1. Based on earnings, more you earn the more you pay (that's for all tax, not just what goes to healthcare)

2. Yes, $500 per year is what I pay and I do not even miss it knowing what I am covered for.

3. Yes, all doctor visits are free

4. Free surgery if it is critical. I had a bit of pig's tusk get jammed in my leg once during a hunting trip. All it cost me was the taxi fare home from the hospital and the 6 pack of beers for painkillers :lol:

Irt

I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
 

jordyonbass

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
jordyonbass|1484264279|4114874 said:
ruby59|1484262734|4114868 said:
Thank you , Jordy.

Does everyone pay the same tax or is it based on income?

Is it manageable for the average family?

And to be clear, once you pay that tax, all doctor visits are free?

What about hospitals? If you need surgery?

1. Based on earnings, more you earn the more you pay (that's for all tax, not just what goes to healthcare)

2. Yes, $500 per year is what I pay and I do not even miss it knowing what I am covered for.

3. Yes, all doctor visits are free

4. Free surgery if it is critical. I had a bit of pig's tusk get jammed in my leg once during a hunting trip. All it cost me was the taxi fare home from the hospital and the 6 pack of beers for painkillers :lol:

Irt

I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?

That's kinda hard to answer, for about the same size land mass we only have about 10% of the population of the US however only about 10% of our country is inhabitable. I am confident it would work for any country and not just Australia.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

I am very concerned for my patients. Hoping for the best.
 

Bron357

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Hi from an Aussie.
Our Govt Medicare costs people who earn income, 2% a year. Otherwise it is free. Emergencies in hospitals are free, general doctors visits are usually free but prescriptions aren't free. Things like dental, optical, physio and specialists (outside a hospital settings) aren't free. So most people have private health insurance as well. That is about $600 a month for a family. There is a tax rebate for lower income earners. Pensioners, unemployed, invalids are able to access the "not free" services but they might have to wait for an appointment or not have much choice. They can get their decayed teeth fixed or a set of false teeth or jaw surgery if they have no money but you cant get things like braces for free. They get cheaper prescriptions or free prescriptions but not every drug is on that list.
An example, I broke my foot really badly. I went to the hospital. I had numerous x rays, pain meds and a hospital stay for 3 days, all free. I was sent home with a cast to come back in a week to re check. They were of the opinion it would heal just with plaster for 6 weeks. Meanwhile my mother says, "you need a second opinion", so that's a private specialist orthopaedic. I went and saw him, he saw my x rays etc and said "yes, there's an 80% chance it will heal ok with just plaster, but for a 97% chance of an excellent outcome, you need surgery". So that's a private doctor in a private hospital. Not free. I have private health insurance too but this guy is "the guru doctor" and he charges big $$$$. So, all my private hospital stay was covered by my private health insurance but I was still $5,000 out of pocket on the surgeon costs. My private health insurance covered my physio costs and the x rays etc were free. The blood thinners, the pain meds were like $18 a script. I had a perfect recovery result. I may not have had this result through the free hospital system.
My father has melanoma. He has had the best doctors, the best medications and treatments, pet scans MRIs everything - all free.
My mother had breast cancer. Again all surgery, treatments, medications, support etc - all free.
My breast scans are free, my Pap smears are free, my blood tests are free but my private thyroid specialist of my choice, isn't free, she costs $275 a visit, I am out of pocket about $100 a visit. I can make an appointment and see her in a fortnight. If I was poor, a GP would handle me, for free, or send me to a hospital again free, but I might have to wait 6 months for an appointment and I can't choose my doctor. If it's not "life threatening" the free system means you have to wait your turn. Private doctors mean you can choose not to wait or choose a particular doctor, but you pay for this yourself.
So, no one here dies untreated or unhelped or goes bankrupt just because they got sick. True, our free system doesn't include every treatment and every drug, it can't, but mostly you get the what you need when you need it.
So yes, come to Australia.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.
 

ruby59

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Dancing Fire|1484271215|4114905 said:
ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.


DF, that is why I was asking questions about Australia, to get an idea of how well populated it is.

And when Jordy said 10% of the US, that is why I posted that I did not think it would work in the US.
 

jordyonbass

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Dancing Fire|1484271215|4114905 said:
ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.

I am not sure why you are drawing that distinction DF, it would work better or equivalent in higher populated areas due to less individual facilities required.

You're also welcome to my backyard cook off :naughty:
 

Bron357

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Population size is irrelevant. It's how money is raised by Govts through taxes etc and how those monies are spent. It's about whether healthcare is "not for profit" run by the govt with sufficient funds allocated to it or run by private enterprises who run (and need to to be viable) for profit or a combination of both systems.
Healthcare is incredibly expensive. All those new drugs cost huge huge money to research and develop, those fancy machines, those buildings, the number and qualifications of the staff needed to operate in these medical facilities. We are talking mega mega dollars.
Here in Australia I think healthcare is our number 1 expense. And unlike the US our defence budget is well, nothing. What we spend in a year, you guys would spend in 30 minutes. But no, I'm not going there or debating that.
The point I'm trying to make it's about available $ resources and the decisions made on how to allocate them. Everyone has a vested interest in their thing. It's who has the most power, the loudest voice who gets their way or most of their way and that's how the money is spent.
We all want perfect free healthcare, we all want perfect free education, we all want our country to be perfectly safe and secure from any and every threat, we all want to do / see amazing things / inventions / events, find cures (cancer) live longer, live better, eat well, no one be hungry, no one without a roof over their head and clothes in their back BUT we can't have it all. No, we can't have it all.
We as groups of people in our various countries decide (mostly / hopefully) by voting in governments to get the best that can be done for us. And no one of us will ever be perfectly happy with what is done, no matter who tries to do it.
The healthly people with kids want less on healthcare and more on education.
The sick with no kids want less on education and more on healthcare.
People who own cars and drive want better roads and more freeways, the people who don't drive want better public transport.
Everyone wants to fly in aeroplanes but no one wants the airport built next or near to their house.
Everyone wants to save the world but we all still want to consume any and every resource if and when we want to.
If it was easy, it would be done, but it's not.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

jordyonbass|1484272428|4114908 said:
Dancing Fire|1484271215|4114905 said:
ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.

I am not sure why you are drawing that distinction DF, it would work better or equivalent in higher populated areas due to less individual facilities required.

You're also welcome to my backyard cook off :naughty:
Thanks, Jordy... :wavey: I love Australian lobster tails... :lickout:
 

jordyonbass

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Dancing Fire|1484273458|4114919 said:
jordyonbass|1484272428|4114908 said:
Dancing Fire|1484271215|4114905 said:
ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.

I am not sure why you are drawing that distinction DF, it would work better or equivalent in higher populated areas due to less individual facilities required.

You're also welcome to my backyard cook off :naughty:
Thanks, Jordy... :wavey: I love Australian lobster tails... :lickout:

Oh nice! I haven't been diving for them in a while but I am sure I could do a couple drops before you get here :mrgreen:
 

AprilBaby

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

My friends mother needed a hip replacement in Australia and waited two years for a public hospital bed to be available. I needed a knee replacement and had it the following week. My out of pocket was $1500 but I didn't wait two years. My friend needed a surgery also, male surgery, and it kept being cancelled because the hospital bumped him for someone else. After three years he gave up and didn't do it. Specialist was $100/visit. I'm not sure that system is really better. At least for me it is not.
 

Snowdrop13

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

I'm in the UK, which also has a taxpayer funded, free at point of use health service. The US spends a huge amount of GDP on healthcare, it would just need political will to use that money differently. You'd have to take on the vested interests of the insurance companies, plus I guess all the staff would need to accept lower salaries (doctors in the US are paid about twice what they are here). Here's an article comparing some of the different healthcare systems, including Europe, US and Australia:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective
 

jordyonbass

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

AprilBaby|1484282322|4114954 said:
My friends mother needed a hip replacement in Australia and waited two years for a public hospital bed to be available. I needed a knee replacement and had it the following week. My out of pocket was $1500 but I didn't wait two years. My friend needed a surgery also, male surgery, and it kept being cancelled because the hospital bumped him for someone else. After three years he gave up and didn't do it. Specialist was $100/visit. I'm not sure that system is really better. At least for me it is not.

I've heard of some joint reconstruction and replacements taking a while to get done due to waiting lists, but any sort of emergency surgery is always tended to immediately. My brother-in-law fell off a horse about a week ago and has required 2 operations in the last week to fix it, it hasn't cost a cent with the taxpayer Healthcare system we have.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't really go to the doctor unless something needs to be reattached or removed from me and I am fine with my tax money going towards the system. It's there for free if I need it but more importantly to me it is there for others thanks to the contribution of everyone. Health insurance premiums are about the same as the tax I pay and I have no plans on fixing my munchers or getting the lumps and bumps out of my hands.

I still stand by my comment that a high tide raises all boats :angel:
 

ksinger

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Snowdrop13|1484293339|4114972 said:
I'm in the UK, which also has a taxpayer funded, free at point of use health service. The US spends a huge amount of GDP on healthcare, it would just need political will to use that money differently. You'd have to take on the vested interests of the insurance companies, plus I guess all the staff would need to accept lower salaries (doctors in the US are paid about twice what they are here). Here's an article comparing some of the different healthcare systems, including Europe, US and Australia:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

We've also heard (from a British doc who was a sailing buddy of my husband) that the BMA is far better at policing its own and hanging them out to dry when necessary, than the AMA is here. The BMA sees this type of policing as necessary to keep their professional cred, and to reduce law suits. Who better to police doctors than doctors? Of course the BMA may be structured differently and have more actual power too, hubs couldn't remember what level of power the BMA had/has. (It's been a while and his buddy has moved to a much better sailing locale. ;-) )
 

Tekate

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Bron357|1484270604|4114900 said:
Hi from an Aussie.
Our Govt Medicare costs people who earn income, 2% a year. Otherwise it is free. Emergencies in hospitals are free, general doctors visits are usually free but prescriptions aren't free. Things like dental, optical, physio and specialists (outside a hospital settings) aren't free. So most people have private health insurance as well. That is about $600 a month for a family. There is a tax rebate for lower income earners. Pensioners, unemployed, invalids are able to access the "not free" services but they might have to wait for an appointment or not have much choice. They can get their decayed teeth fixed or a set of false teeth or jaw surgery if they have no money but you cant get things like braces for free. They get cheaper prescriptions or free prescriptions but not every drug is on that list.
An example, I broke my foot really badly. I went to the hospital. I had numerous x rays, pain meds and a hospital stay for 3 days, all free. I was sent home with a cast to come back in a week to re check. They were of the opinion it would heal just with plaster for 6 weeks. Meanwhile my mother says, "you need a second opinion", so that's a private specialist orthopaedic. I went and saw him, he saw my x rays etc and said "yes, there's an 80% chance it will heal ok with just plaster, but for a 97% chance of an excellent outcome, you need surgery". So that's a private doctor in a private hospital. Not free. I have private health insurance too but this guy is "the guru doctor" and he charges big $$$$. So, all my private hospital stay was covered by my private health insurance but I was still $5,000 out of pocket on the surgeon costs. My private health insurance covered my physio costs and the x rays etc were free. The blood thinners, the pain meds were like $18 a script. I had a perfect recovery result. I may not have had this result through the free hospital system.
My father has melanoma. He has had the best doctors, the best medications and treatments, pet scans MRIs everything - all free.
My mother had breast cancer. Again all surgery, treatments, medications, support etc - all free.
My breast scans are free, my Pap smears are free, my blood tests are free but my private thyroid specialist of my choice, isn't free, she costs $275 a visit, I am out of pocket about $100 a visit. I can make an appointment and see her in a fortnight. If I was poor, a GP would handle me, for free, or send me to a hospital again free, but I might have to wait 6 months for an appointment and I can't choose my doctor. If it's not "life threatening" the free system means you have to wait your turn. Private doctors mean you can choose not to wait or choose a particular doctor, but you pay for this yourself.
So, no one here dies untreated or unhelped or goes bankrupt just because they got sick. True, our free system doesn't include every treatment and every drug, it can't, but mostly you get the what you need when you need it.
So yes, come to Australia.

Sounds wonderful, doable, and fair. :) thanks for your post, I've been to Australia and it's beautiful too. :)
 

Tekate

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Dancing Fire|1484271215|4114905 said:
ruby59|1484264566|4114875 said:
I am not that familiar with Australia. But is it densely populated?

Would that even work in the US?
Some health care system may work well in small populated countries, but not here in the U.S., so it is ridiculous to compare small populated countries to the U.S. with 330 million people.

Why? why can't it work? Maybe if people had more preventive care, access to B/C. We could CUT costs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/01/13/what-liberals-get-wrong-about-single-payer/

doctors are paid toooo much. drugs are toooooooo expensive. We need a better way, and single payer would help.
 

chrono

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

It feels wrong in my head that our healthcare costs and procedure approvals are at the mercy of private insurance companies that are only concerned with making a profit for their shareholders (probably us!).
 

Tekate

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

AprilBaby|1484282322|4114954 said:
My friends mother needed a hip replacement in Australia and waited two years for a public hospital bed to be available. I needed a knee replacement and had it the following week. My out of pocket was $1500 but I didn't wait two years. My friend needed a surgery also, male surgery, and it kept being cancelled because the hospital bumped him for someone else. After three years he gave up and didn't do it. Specialist was $100/visit. I'm not sure that system is really better. At least for me it is not.

Anecdotal. Hip replacement is elective, I should know as I've had both my hips replaced. On my first hip I waited years too long, to the point of not being able to walk, it's major surgery and it's expensive and recovery is a pain, my second one I waited half as long.. If someone breaks their hip do they wait years in Australia, I doubt it.. With osteoarthritis of the hip(s) you don't wake up one morning and need a replacement, I went to my hip guy for 3 years before I did scheduled surgery, I tried P/T, Drugs (loved them :) ) but eventually my surgeon and I came to the conclusion I would never get better and I had surgery 2010, and it was scheduled with a 3 mos wait period in Austin TX.. I don't know about Australia per se, but if a person can't walk then they would need canes, drugs, assistance etc till their operation, losing weight is the single best thing one can do to avoid surgery on hip or knee (my doc says :) )

To judge any health care in any country one has to live there. My SIL is from Vancouver, her mother needs 2 hip replacements and refuses, we don't just wake up on Friday a.m. with pain, unless one breaks their hip or something like that. My SIL mom can schedule her operation at anytime in Canada.

You do not know what the system would be for you in Australia, France, England or Canada. I would agree wait times are longer for elective surgery in countries that have national healthcare. Not sure about cancer treatments.. All countries have their boomers up on plate and moving thru the healthcare system.. tough times for all.

Physicians need to take a pay cut, just like middle income Americans did. Hospitals need to advertise pricing, so we have the Free Market! hospital would really hate that.

from 2012:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/june/5-myths-about-canada%E2%80%99s-health-care-system

Am I willing to wait two years for surgery? probably if I could live with it (and I did, over two years at least 7 years of pain, increasingly painful)..

I wish our system were like Australia's.

10 Healhiest countries (no USA) http://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/news/top-10-healthiest-countries-in-the-world/

USA doesn't rank well.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/u-s-health-care-system-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-efficient

Preventive healthcare is very important, checkups, being able to see a physician without it costing 180.00$ to walk in the door. We need something much better.
 

Rhea

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

I live in the UK.

I waited about 18 months for a surgery. I had fibroids and their growth was causing pressure symptoms and starting to cause incontinence toward the end of my wait. It was not a medical emergency so I was pushed behind medical emergencies. Non-life threatening surgery is considered cosmetic and while it was a huge pain, there were no serious or lasting problems it was causing. If I'd wanted quicker surgery I could have gone private. I didn't think I could afford to (I was wrong) so I didn't. I used the NHS, a tax-payer paid for system which benefits everyone, not just the rich.

A friend also had fibroids and her tests and treatments started the same way mine did. Shortly after the start of these tests the doctors found an abnormality. She was in surgery, having the same operation I had, within 2 days, not the 18 month wait I had. Hers was an emergency.

It's anecdotal but that's how the UK system works. You need it, you get it quickly. If it improves your life, but is not life saving, you wait behind those whose lives are being saved. Same goes for seeing a GP or specialist or going to A&E (ER). I've both received within the hour appointments and waited 3 weeks to see my doctor (not A doctor, but MY doctor) depending on the nature of my requirements.

Yes, the US is a large country, but there's no reason it couldn't work. A significant number of developed countries have their medical care organised this way. It's not 100%. It's not without fail. It's not without it's problems. But "a high tide raises all boats" =)
 

ruby59

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

And what happens if you have a chronic condition?

Not emergency, but life enhancing?

That is why I do not like what I have read about he 1 payer system.
 

arkieb1

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I've had relatives fall and break a hip so yes that is free and seen too immediately. Anything life threatening is seen to here immediately anything that is deemed non urgent and "elective" can in some instances take years if you want it done for free, good examples are some eye surgeries as you age and joint replacements etc. So if you are happy to wait or you are poor and can't afford private health care, you go on an elective waiting list and wait your turn.

We have one of the highest tax rates in the world, that is what pays for it, it's a sliding scale the rich pay more the poor pay less. If you want immediate medical care you can elect to see various specialists and there are large out of pocket fees you pay yourself for private hospitals and private doctors. Private health care in this country that helps to also cover those costs is expensive but our government encourages people to get it if they can afford it with rebates you get back when you pay tax. If you don't want to pay for private health care and you are still sick you can just pay for private doctors if you don't want to wait.

I've seen both systems the Australian and the American and ours by in large works better for poorer people, has better safety nets for the vulnerable so to speak.

We have an ageing population here so the government has tried and failed numerous times to increase the costs of everything here that is currently free.
 

Snowdrop13

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Ruby59, Do you mean something like diabetes, or rheumatoid arthritis? These would get seen by the family doctor then referred to a specialist. A condition like diabetes, which can be life threatening would be seen immediately. There may be more of a wait to be diagnosed with say, a skin condition. Prescription charges for drugs are held at a low level too (in fact they are free where I live) so there is not a huge financial burden in needing to take medication regularly.

But our highest earners pay 45% tax.
 

jordyonbass

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

ruby59|1484530355|4115591 said:
And what happens if you have a chronic condition?

Not emergency, but life enhancing?

That is why I do not like what I have read about he 1 payer system.

We don't have that system here in Australia, it's almost the best of both to be honest. You can get private health cover and get those issues fixed virtually immediately or wait for a bit and get it for free. Either way you can get it fixed and have choice in how and when if you pay.

And as mentioned previously anything perceived as life threatening etc is seen to immediately, the healthcare someone has is an after thought as a life is viewed more precious than a policy.

As far as my most recent medical history it has basically all been accidents; I got electrocuted in 2012 and went to hospital, was scanned and tested for heart damage and other issues as well as the burn it caused. I have also been in to get foreign objects removed (don't ask, pig hunt gone awry once and a few fishing mishaps on others) which involved multiple follow up visits for dressings changes etc. I come out of all visits with a clean bill of health and no money out of my pocket without any health cover. As I mentioned previously I don't typically go to the doctor unless something needs to be put back on or taken out of me and I still have to go in occasionally to get myself fixed up.

I'm a walking, breathing cadaver, whatever doesn't kill me only makes me scarred and tell a good story :lol: :lol:
 

nkarma

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

To clarify, Australia isn't the only place with single payer healthcare. Every other "wealthy" /industrialized country in the world has one besides the U.S. These countries vary in population and geography but up to 70 million people.

The sole reason healthcare is not universal in the U.S. is because it's a means for corporations to force their employees to work (enslave). How many people do you know who work for the insurance and not for the paycheck?!!!

As an American living in the UK for the last 4 years, I pay the same percentage of my income in taxes as I did in California and have access to the NHS (UK single payer system). I also have private insurance through my employer exactly as I did in US. This is typical for working professionals to have both.

The most obvious to your eyes result of living in a country with universal healthcare is the lack of poverty, drug abuse, and crime. There are very very very few homeless people in the UK because everyone has access to medical and mental health care. As you know there are many veterans or unlucky people with severe mental health issues living in the streets all over America. Every non-American I've spoken to who has travelled there, the first thing out of their mouth is how much poverty there is in the US compared to where they're from.
 

ksinger

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Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

nkarma|1484567324|4115665 said:
To clarify, Australia isn't the only place with single payer healthcare. Every other "wealthy" /industrialized country in the world has one besides the U.S. These countries vary in population and geography but up to 70 million people.

The sole reason healthcare is not universal in the U.S. is because it's a means for corporations to force their employees to work (enslave). How many people do you know who work for the insurance and not for the paycheck?!!!

As an American living in the UK for the last 4 years, I pay the same percentage of my income in taxes as I did in California and have access to the NHS (UK single payer system). I also have private insurance through my employer exactly as I did in US. This is typical for working professionals to have both.

The most obvious to your eyes result of living in a country with universal healthcare is the lack of poverty, drug abuse, and crime. There are very very very few homeless people in the UK because everyone has access to medical and mental health care. As you know there are many veterans or unlucky people with severe mental health issues living in the streets all over America. Every non-American I've spoken to who has travelled there, the first thing out of their mouth is how much poverty there is in the US compared to where they're from.

I find it interesting, (and very myopic) to complain about the additional taxes for the ACA, or a full single payer system, when you add up what you pay in premiums every year under the current horror we have. Without employer subsidy, I am paying $600 a month in premiums for just me. (I was paying about $250 a month with my employer contribution) That doesn't include the co-pays, etc. If people would consider this in the same light as taxes that they have been conditioned to hate reflexively, they'd see that the real hit to their pocket book, comes from the premiums.

But then this is not about healthcare for all, and never has been. As you say, it's about being able to tether those who work, and especially those with high-level skills, to their jobs. My husband sailed with a guy who was high executive level in a large company (I want to say oil, but right now I've forgotten what business...grrr. This guy was an amoral shark, I do remember that.). He was very matter of fact about how they had done the math and knew exactly how much they could depress salaries, knowing how hard it would be for someone to quit due to the spectre of losing insurance. (This was probably pre-COBRA, but maybe not.)

It's also about ensuring that the "undeserving" don't get something good. There's the real fount of our collective lack of political will insure everyone.
 

missy

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53,978
Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

And today is Martin Luther King Jr day and I find it haunting and sad that we are still where we are in the struggle for equal rights for all.

And yes we have a crappy unjust health care system in the USA and I am acutely aware of it more than ever before.

The Australian (and others) healthcare system sounds pretty darn good and even if you don't have an urgent health care issue if you want to take care of it more quickly just go privately. Really it's a win win and everyone deserves proper and good healthcare. Just makes me so angry we are still dealing with such an inequality and that people in this country are literally dying for lack of adequate healthcare.

:cry: :cry: :cry:
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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7,570
Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

missy|1484571875|4115677 said:
And today is Martin Luther King Jr day and I find it haunting and sad that we are still where we are in the struggle for equal rights for all.

And yes we have a crappy unjust health care system in the USA and I am acutely aware of it more than ever before.

The Australian (and others) healthcare system sounds pretty darn good and even if you don't have an urgent health care issue if you want to take care of it more quickly just go privately. Really it's a win win and everyone deserves proper and good healthcare. Just makes me so angry we are still dealing with such an inequality and that people in this country are literally dying for lack of adequate healthcare.

:cry: :cry: :cry:


:appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

Dee*Jay

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Messages
15,104
Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

jordyonbass|1484557846|4115656 said:
ruby59|1484530355|4115591 said:
And what happens if you have a chronic condition?

Not emergency, but life enhancing?

That is why I do not like what I have read about he 1 payer system.

We don't have that system here in Australia, it's almost the best of both to be honest. You can get private health cover and get those issues fixed virtually immediately or wait for a bit and get it for free. Either way you can get it fixed and have choice in how and when if you pay.

And as mentioned previously anything perceived as life threatening etc is seen to immediately, the healthcare someone has is an after thought as a life is viewed more precious than a policy.

As far as my most recent medical history it has basically all been accidents; I got electrocuted in 2012 and went to hospital, was scanned and tested for heart damage and other issues as well as the burn it caused. I have also been in to get foreign objects removed (don't ask, pig hunt gone awry once and a few fishing mishaps on others) which involved multiple follow up visits for dressings changes etc. I come out of all visits with a clean bill of health and no money out of my pocket without any health cover. As I mentioned previously I don't typically go to the doctor unless something needs to be put back on or taken out of me and I still have to go in occasionally to get myself fixed up.

I'm a walking, breathing cadaver, whatever doesn't kill me only makes me scarred and tell a good story :lol: :lol:

What you wrote there Jordy really struck a chord with me -- this is as it SHOULD be!
 

Dee*Jay

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15,104
Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

ksinger|1484569820|4115669 said:
nkarma|1484567324|4115665 said:
To clarify, Australia isn't the only place with single payer healthcare. Every other "wealthy" /industrialized country in the world has one besides the U.S. These countries vary in population and geography but up to 70 million people.

The sole reason healthcare is not universal in the U.S. is because it's a means for corporations to force their employees to work (enslave). How many people do you know who work for the insurance and not for the paycheck?!!!

As an American living in the UK for the last 4 years, I pay the same percentage of my income in taxes as I did in California and have access to the NHS (UK single payer system). I also have private insurance through my employer exactly as I did in US. This is typical for working professionals to have both.

The most obvious to your eyes result of living in a country with universal healthcare is the lack of poverty, drug abuse, and crime. There are very very very few homeless people in the UK because everyone has access to medical and mental health care. As you know there are many veterans or unlucky people with severe mental health issues living in the streets all over America. Every non-American I've spoken to who has travelled there, the first thing out of their mouth is how much poverty there is in the US compared to where they're from.

I find it interesting, (and very myopic) to complain about the additional taxes for the ACA, or a full single payer system, when you add up what you pay in premiums every year under the current horror we have. Without employer subsidy, I am paying $600 a month in premiums for just me. (I was paying about $250 a month with my employer contribution) That doesn't include the co-pays, etc. If people would consider this in the same light as taxes that they have been conditioned to hate reflexively, they'd see that the real hit to their pocket book, comes from the premiums.

But then this is not about healthcare for all, and never has been. As you say, it's about being able to tether those who work, and especially those with high-level skills, to their jobs. My husband sailed with a guy who was high executive level in a large company (I want to say oil, but right now I've forgotten what business...grrr. This guy was an amoral shark, I do remember that.). He was very matter of fact about how they had done the math and knew exactly how much they could depress salaries, knowing how hard it would be for someone to quit due to the spectre of losing insurance. (This was probably pre-COBRA, but maybe not.)

It's also about ensuring that the "undeserving" don't get something good. There's the real fount of our collective lack of political will insure everyone.

I think this is very true. The company I currently work for (in the financial industry) pays for 100% of our health insurance, including dental and vision, and that goes for both single people and families. We have the best coverage I've ever seen. It is a Blue Cross/Blue Shield PPO with a $500/year deductible (I don't know that the deductible is for families). I've used it a number of times in the past three years, most recently in October when I went to the emergency room. The amount I ended up paying after all the claims were processed was right around $15 (I had not met the deductible for the year either, this was the only time I used the insurance aside from a routine physical last spring). Fifteen dollars. When I have conversations with headhunters and we get to the part about benefits there is usually dead silence on the phone or they think I'm joking when I tell them about our plan and what we (don't) pay for it.

But I got sidetracked there for a minute -- the point I'm trying to make is I've heard conversations among staff (most frequently among our executive assistants, but sometimes at other levels) about the very point you make. Our coverage is so good and so cheap (FREE!) that I'm sure people stay for this very reason, especially people with families or medical conditions that would be otherwise expensive out of pocket. And I don't know what anyone else in the firm makes but now I have to wonder if it's true that we "underpay" (or pay as little as we reasonably can) due to the benefits (including a 3% 401(k) match and a 12% pension contribution annually) that we provide.
 

redwood66

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7,329
Re: If ACA is repealed what will happen to millions of Ameri

Dee Jay you might look at it from the other perspective of how much it costs the employer to provide that expensive plan. You pay nothing for it but it probably costs them quite a bit per person to provide it. People do remain at positions for reasons other than pay and excellent benefits is one of them. I am one of those people. The hours of work, flexible time off and retirement were more important than a few dollars an hour to me.
 
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