Republicans try to defund Planned Parenthood

[OreoRosies86]

Sure, Republicans. Let's go back to the days of back alley abortions. Give 14 year old girls a coat hanger and tell them good luck. Make sure you push plenty of abstinence, that's always been really realistic. If teens don't respond to that, up the church sermons. Don't educate them about their bodies or the reality of parenthood, tell them their carnal incontinence will result in a permanent stint in hell. And make sure they never have access to condoms, birth control, or reproductive counseling. Ever.

And I'm sorry, did I walk into some vortex and its 1930 again? Sure didn't feel that way when I was getting affordable health screenings.

 

[monarch64]

Sure, Republicans. Let's go back to the days of back alley abortions. Give 14 year old girls a coat hanger and tell them good luck. Make sure you push plenty of abstinence, that's always been really realistic. If teens don't respond to that, up the church sermons. Don't educate them about their bodies or the reality of parenthood, tell them their carnal incontinence will result in a permanent stint in hell. And make sure they never have access to condoms, birth control, or reproductive counseling. Ever.

And I'm sorry, did I walk into some vortex and its 1930 again? Sure didn't feel that way when I was getting affordable health screenings.

Ha! My thoughts exactly.

I grew up in a small town in which abstinence was preached and teen pregnancy rates were sky high. All along the highways (to this day) are billboards with pro-life messages, frequently next to giant, pole-barn megachurches. Of COURSE the message is pro-life--there is MONEY TO BE MADE FOLKS AND WE MUST HAVE ALL THE PARISHIONERS WE CAN POSSIBLY GET TO LINE OUR COFFERS!!!

If those businesses, ahem, I mean CHURCHES, allow their good soldiers to go willy-nilly carnivortin' and fornicatin' and havin' them there abortions, won't be any congregation left, now would there?

Hmmm.

 

[katharath]

Wow, I had no idea that I was practicing eugenics when I used Planned Parenthood to prevent unwanted pregnancies in my late teens/early married days. Crazy!!!

So just to clarify - getting birth control pills and health screenings is practicing eugenics?

 

[Ellen]

By all means we should keep it especially if you subscribe to the PP founder's view - Margaret Sanger. It is population control for those that should not be breeding anyway.

I don't know of one PP that offers eugenics on their list of services.

Sanger represented many of the people of her time:

http://time.com/4081760/margaret-sanger-history-eugenics/

They don't offer it as a service - the very existence and daily operations are fulfilling the plan.

Prove it.

We don't have to, Miss Sanger has done that for us, in her own words.

This woman has read her books and gives references for all quotes.
https://gerardnadal.com/2009/12/30/margaret-sanger-in-her-own-words/

I'll post a few for those who won't read the entire set. I think these sum things up nicely.

“Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race.”

Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.



“Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need … We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock.”


Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.



“The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics.”


Margaret Sanger. “The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda.” Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5



“The third group [of society] are those irresponsible and reckless ones having little regard for the consequences of their acts, or whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Many of this group are diseased, feeble-minded, and are of the pauper element dependent upon the normal and fit members of society for their support. There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.”

Margaret Sanger. Speech quoted in Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do. The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.


What a gal.

And for the cherry on top, an article on her speaking engagement at a Klu Klux Klan rally. Now really, WHY would anyone who isn't trying to exterminate the African American race and who isn't pushing white supremacy, have anything to do with a group whose entire agenda is towards that very purpose?

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/planned-parenthood-founder-spoke-at-ku-klux-klan-rally/

Here's another of her thoughts on African Americans from this article.
“In all fish and reptiles where there is no great brain development, there is also no conscious sexual control. The lower down in the scale of human development we go the less sexual control we find. It is said that the aboriginal Australian, the lowest known species of the human family, just a step higher than the chimpanzee in brain development, has so little sexual control that police authority alone prevents him from obtaining sexual satisfaction on the streets.”

Red put it quite aptly. I'll repeat it.

They don't offer it as a service - the very existence and daily operations are fulfilling the plan.

I don't understand your post, sorry, are you saying that people who use birth control are practicing eugenics?

Are German people today Nazis because their great and parents were nazis? Do they want to exterminate jews today?

I don't understand why people are so against Planned Parenthood, the organization does so much good for poor people.

The world has changed since Margaret Sanger first introduced family planning.

This fact check is very interesting reading

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/11/cains-false-attack-on-planned-parenthood/

I'm saying nothing has changed. PP is still the same as it was in 1930. Or did I miss the memo where they have renounced any former association with Miss Sanger and her deplorable, racist views? Did I miss that? I'm being serious here, have I missed that? Because if I haven't, they still stand behind this poor excuse of a woman. And I hear absolutely no outrage.....

Of course I am not saying individuals who practice birth control are willfully or knowingly practicing eugenics. Please..
But PP is.

As for PP "doing good", evil almost always pretends to be good. If it didn't, it wouldn't get away with what it does.


Annette, he is actually doing much better, thank you for asking. I am planning an update here shortly in the Vit. D thread.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Ellen, what "evil" are we talking about here? Abortions? I ask seriously. You seem to often throw those little zingers out and don't back them up.

The controversies regarding Sanger have been widely debunked. But reading is hard. Better for people to find false fault in a cause their religion tells them to find fault in. Or something.

 

[Maria D]

I'm saying nothing has changed. PP is still the same as it was in 1930. Or did I miss the memo where they have renounced any former association with Miss Sanger and her deplorable, racist views? Did I miss that? I'm being serious here, have I missed that? Because if I haven't, they still stand behind this poor excuse of a woman. And I hear absolutely no outrage.....

Of course I am not saying individuals who practice birth control are willfully or knowingly practicing eugenics. Please..
But PP is.

As for PP "doing good", evil almost always pretends to be good. If it didn't, it wouldn't get away with what it does.

Your premise, that modern day Planned Parenthood is practicing, or even condoning, eugenics is so false it is laughable. I've not had the need to ever avail myself of PP services because I've had good health insurance and monetary resources my entire life. However, I know of many, many women of all ages, races, ethnicities and religions who would not have had the same access to quality healthcare were it not for Planned Parenthood. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of them wouldn't have a clue about anything to do with Margaret Sanger.

 

[Ellen]

Ellen, what "evil" are we talking about here? Abortions? I ask seriously. You seem to often throw those little zingers out and don't back them up.

The controversies regarding Sanger have been widely debunked. But reading is hard. Better for people to find false fault in a cause their religion tells them to find fault in. Or something.

Elliot, I am talking about eugenics and racism. It is evil. (it wasn't a zinger, and you're not that dumb). Her comments cannot be "debunked". For crying out loud, SHE SAID THEM. SHE MEANT THEM. There is no denying it (though many of you will continue to try). You can't debunk actual quotes taken in context. But one can try and twist the truth-because it's ugly and people wouldn't like it were they to see it for what it really is.

And for the record, this has nothing to do with religion at the moment. It is about telling the truth, an ugly truth. It's about shining a light on something others would have remain in the dark. It is about trying to get those who refuse to see, to see. But I'm done now. I made the point, and there are those who will get it, and those who won't. And nothing I say from here forward will make one iota of difference to the latter.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I'm still not sure what exactly you think you've uncovered. These things are addressed in depth with references on the PP site for all to see at any given time.

I want to know how churches are solving unwanted pregnancies and helping women access affordable reproductive healthcare.

 

[Tekate]

By all means we should keep it especially if you subscribe to the PP founder's view - Margaret Sanger. It is population control for those that should not be breeding anyway.

I don't know of one PP that offers eugenics on their list of services.

Sanger represented many of the people of her time:

http://time.com/4081760/margaret-sanger-history-eugenics/

They don't offer it as a service - the very existence and daily operations are fulfilling the plan.

Prove it.

These guys seem to think so.

http://blackgenocide.org/planned.html

Well there is no About for this organization - not that I couldn't figure it out, it's run by a bunch of dummies, it's a front for religious nuts who want to force their belief system on others, quite unAmerican and quite usual practice for republicans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_genocide_conspiracy_theory

 

[Tekate]

Ellen, what "evil" are we talking about here? Abortions? I ask seriously. You seem to often throw those little zingers out and don't back them up.

The controversies regarding Sanger have been widely debunked. But reading is hard. Better for people to find false fault in a cause their religion tells them to find fault in. Or something.

Elliot, I am talking about eugenics and racism. It is evil. (it wasn't a zinger, and you're not that dumb). Her comments cannot be "debunked". For crying out loud, SHE SAID THEM. SHE MEANT THEM. There is no denying it (though many of you will continue to try). You can't debunk actual quotes taken in context. But one can try and twist the truth-because it's ugly and people wouldn't like it were they to see it for what it really is.

And for the record, this has nothing to do with religion at the moment. It is about telling the truth, an ugly truth. It's about shining a light on something others would have remain in the dark. It is about trying to get those who refuse to see, to see. But I'm done now. I made the point, and there are those who will get it, and those who won't. And nothing I say from here forward will make one iota of difference to the latter.

https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/

there is an About for this site.

I believe that all people wish to know the truth on all subjects but one cannot learn if one does not read, check and read more. I don't read to support my personal beliefs, I have beliefs and I read, if I read something that does not support my belief, I have changed my opinion on capital punishment several times in my life, due to research.

I would say back to you that it does have all to do with religion and it has to do with control of women by men.

 

[ksinger]

Ellen, what "evil" are we talking about here? Abortions? I ask seriously. You seem to often throw those little zingers out and don't back them up.

The controversies regarding Sanger have been widely debunked. But reading is hard. Better for people to find false fault in a cause their religion tells them to find fault in. Or something.

Elliot, I am talking about eugenics and racism. It is evil. (it wasn't a zinger, and you're not that dumb). Her comments cannot be "debunked". For crying out loud, SHE SAID THEM. SHE MEANT THEM. There is no denying it (though many of you will continue to try). You can't debunk actual quotes taken in context. But one can try and twist the truth-because it's ugly and people wouldn't like it were they to see it for what it really is.

And for the record, this has nothing to do with religion at the moment. It is about telling the truth, an ugly truth. It's about shining a light on something others would have remain in the dark. It is about trying to get those who refuse to see, to see. But I'm done now. I made the point, and there are those who will get it, and those who won't. And nothing I say from here forward will make one iota of difference to the latter.

https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/

there is an About for this site.

I believe that all people wish to know the truth on all subjects but one cannot learn if one does not read, check and read more. I don't read to support my personal beliefs, I have beliefs and I read, if I read something that does not support my belief, I have changed my opinion on capital punishment several times in my life, due to research.

I would say back to you that it does have all to do with religion and it has to do with control of women by men.

Yep. There is no way to tease those two things - religion and patriarchy - apart. At least not with the Big Three. Religion run by males, is the traditional justification for control, because the relationship (the power allocation) between men and women is core to how society functions and how the religion is structured. Women who can support themselves and who make their own decisions on who to sleep with really messes lots up all the seemingly elegant old sureties. At least for the boys. Got to put a stop to that, right?

 

[kenny]

Ellen, what "evil" are we talking about here? Abortions? I ask seriously. You seem to often throw those little zingers out and don't back them up.

The controversies regarding Sanger have been widely debunked. But reading is hard. Better for people to find false fault in a cause their religion tells them to find fault in. Or something.

Elliot, I am talking about eugenics and racism. It is evil. (it wasn't a zinger, and you're not that dumb). Her comments cannot be "debunked". For crying out loud, SHE SAID THEM. SHE MEANT THEM. There is no denying it (though many of you will continue to try). You can't debunk actual quotes taken in context. But one can try and twist the truth-because it's ugly and people wouldn't like it were they to see it for what it really is.

And for the record, this has nothing to do with religion at the moment. It is about telling the truth, an ugly truth. It's about shining a light on something others would have remain in the dark. It is about trying to get those who refuse to see, to see. But I'm done now. I made the point, and there are those who will get it, and those who won't. And nothing I say from here forward will make one iota of difference to the latter.

https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/

there is an About for this site.

I believe that all people wish to know the truth on all subjects but one cannot learn if one does not read, check and read more. I don't read to support my personal beliefs, I have beliefs and I read, if I read something that does not support my belief, I have changed my opinion on capital punishment several times in my life, due to research.

I would say back to you that it does have all to do with religion and it has to do with control of women by men.

Yep. There is no way to tease those two things - religion and patriarchy - apart. At least not with the Big Three. Religion run by males, is the traditional justification for control, because the relationship (the power allocation) between men and women is core to how society functions and how the religion is structured. Women who can support themselves and who make their own decisions on who to sleep with really messes lots up all the seemingly elegant old sureties. At least for the boys. Got to put a stop to that, right?

IOW, "You can do anything you want .. Grab 'em by the pussy! ... well, according to the, soon-to-be, leader of the free world.

When Trump meets Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, he'll probably grab her by the pussy, refined diplomatic statesman that he is.
He'll best even our glorious GWB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTQY1Aw9zcs

 

[Ellen]

I am coming back to clarify one thing. You all are so hung up on the religious aspect, that you missed the meaning of my "religion" statement. What I was saying was, FOR ME, right now, discussing the glaring truth that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist, has nothing to do with religion. I, ME PERSONALLY, am simply looking at the situation from a human decency perspective, not a "religious" perspective. Get it?

 

[lovedogs]

I'm saying nothing has changed. PP is still the same as it was in 1930. Or did I miss the memo where they have renounced any former association with Miss Sanger and her deplorable, racist views? Did I miss that? I'm being serious here, have I missed that? Because if I haven't, they still stand behind this poor excuse of a woman. And I hear absolutely no outrage.....

Of course I am not saying individuals who practice birth control are willfully or knowingly practicing eugenics. Please..
But PP is.

As for PP "doing good", evil almost always pretends to be good. If it didn't, it wouldn't get away with what it does.

Your premise, that modern day Planned Parenthood is practicing, or even condoning, eugenics is so false it is laughable. I've not had the need to ever avail myself of PP services because I've had good health insurance and monetary resources my entire life. However, I know of many, many women of all ages, races, ethnicities and religions who would not have had the same access to quality healthcare were it not for Planned Parenthood. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of them wouldn't have a clue about anything to do with Margaret Sanger.

How can you possibly say that nothing has changed since 1930??? I'm sorry, but the premise that planned parenthood is "evil" because one person was *maybe* racist is absolutely ridiculous. If that is your premise, then I assume you think the Catholic Church is evil because of the existence of pedophile priest, the republican party is evil because there are racist members, etc etc. I'm honestly confused that you think the existence of PP somehow stands for racism and eugenics. EDIT: Most of the claims about Sanger have been debunked, so this entire conversation is silly. But even IF she were racist, it STILL doesn't make PP "evil" 80-some years later.

And as Maria pointed out, a vast majority of people who use PP have no idea that Sanger ever existed. But regardless, I found this on the PP site--which directly responds to all of the criticisms. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/8013/9611/6937/Opposition_Claims_About_Margaret_Sanger.pdf?_ga=1.17062009.1156949828.1476207845


And although it's true that PP obviously wants to defend itself, an article by NPR clarifies a great deal about her beliefs. http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/14/432080520/fact-check-was-planned-parenthood-started-to-control-the-black-population

 

[Tekate]

I am coming back to clarify one thing. You all are so hung up on the religious aspect, that you missed the meaning of my "religion" statement. What I was saying was, FOR ME, right now, discussing the glaring truth that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist, has nothing to do with religion. I, ME PERSONALLY, am simply looking at the situation from a human decency perspective, not a "religious" perspective. Get it?

Alexander Graham Bell - noted eugenics sponsor and believer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell#Eugenics

Eugenics
Bell was connected with the eugenics movement in the United States. In his lecture Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human race presented to the National Academy of Sciences on November 13, 1883, he noted that congenitally deaf parents were more likely to produce deaf children and tentatively suggested that couples where both parties were deaf should not marry.[156] However, it was his hobby of livestock breeding which led to his appointment to biologist David Starr Jordan's Committee on Eugenics, under the auspices of the American Breeders' Association. The committee unequivocally extended the principle to humans.[157] From 1912 until 1918 he was the chairman of the board of scientific advisers to the Eugenics Record Office associated with Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York, and regularly attended meetings. In 1921, he was the honorary president of the Second International Congress of Eugenics held under the auspices of the American Museum of Natural History in New York. Organizations such as these advocated passing laws (with success in some states) that established the compulsory sterilization of people deemed to be, as Bell called them, a "defective variety of the human race". By the late 1930s, about half the states in the U.S. had eugenics laws, and California's compulsory sterilization law was used as a model for that of Nazi Germany.[158]

Should we not use phones?

Other noted people who supported eugenics in some for or another, including famous black Americans.

http://listverse.com/2015/07/10/10-widely-admired-people-who-supported-eugenics/

 

[Calliecake]

Ellen, You speak of common decency. How does providing health care and birth control for women who can not afford it not fall into the common decency category? I really am trying to understand. Your posts above baffled me. Have you ever spoke to a woman who has used Planned Parenthood services and heard what their experience was?

 

[katharath]

After Texas cut PP funding, maternal mortality rates doubled to become the highest seen in developed nations. (2011/2012)

In Indiana, Mike Pence raged against PP and succeeded in slashing their funding by @half - in 2013 this directly led to clinics closing down (some of which never even offered abortions). What they DID offer was HIV testing; when he shut those clinics down, Indiana entered into a state of medical emergency due to the numbers of new people infected with HIV/AIDS. Then instead of doing anything about it, Pence suggested that we pray. Yes, all of this happened. It was a huge scandal and Pence is well known for his extreme stance on simply being gay; yet somehow people thought it would be a good idea to have an on the record bigot in office. But of course that's a whole other thing...

Please open your eyes and look past whatever prejudices you may have and try to see the actual WORK that PP
does. They literally save lives with testing, maternal care, and cancer screenings, etc. Some clinics don't even offer abortions!! Gov't money doesn't actually go to pay for abortions! But the ones that do offer it, it is the choice of the woman; not the choice of the gov't.

I have been to PP multiple times (across different states, when I was in high school and college); although this was many years ago, I've only ever received very professional, kind, caring medical help there. It's incredibly sad to see people (especially other women) demonizing it. It makes me wonder, it is just another thing that the privileged never needed so don't understand why it's necessary?

 

[ruby59]

As I posted before, my SIL gave birth to a daughter born without a brain - just a brain stem.

It was not a matter of IF but WHEN she was going to die.

The doctor told her there was nothing he could do, but for her to have the baby.

And the only so called help her pediatrician gave was that next time the baby was in crisis, put on loud music and just let nature take its course.

Yes, everyone is there before the baby is born espousing advice, but afterwards, you are all alone.

Too bad she did not know about planned parenthood at the time. It would have saved her, our family, and that poor baby a lot of heartache and pain instead of watching her die day by day, slowly a little bit at a time, each time that awful machine went off signaling she had stopped breathing, which was a daily and nightly occurrence.

It practically destroyed my SIL and brother.

 

[katharath]

As I posted before, my SIL gave birth to a daughter born without a brain - just a brain stem.

It was not a matter of IF but WHEN she was going to die.

The doctor told her there was nothing he could do, but for her to have the baby.

And the only so called help her pediatrician gave was that next time the baby was in crisis, put on loud music and just let nature take its course.

Yes, everyone is there before the baby is born espousing advice, but afterwards, you are all alone.

Too bad she did not know about planned parenthood at the time. It would have saved her, our family, and that poor baby a lot of heartache and pain instead of watching her die day by day, slowly a little bit at a time, each time that awful machine went off signaling she had stopped breathing, which was a daily and nightly occurrence.

It practically destroyed my SIL and brother.

I do remember seeing you post about that. That is heartbreaking and I'm so sorry for your family.

And just to clarify my post wasn't directed at any one person, just a general post for all to see.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

P.P. was not established for poor women. It was for everyone wo wanted family planning and didn't want 13 children as in my dads family. PP functioned very well wit out Gov't assistance and people paid out of pocket as most middle class people didn't ave te benefit of insurance.(MY letter wont work, sorry).

T ere are many oter alternatives to PP. poor women can go to teir own doctors to get birt-control for 2-3 $ a mont. Public clinics are available ., . My point, wen you take Gov't funds, you are beolden. Don't take te funds and it can do wat ever it wants.
Fund PP yourselves. Poor women don't need it.


Annette