Help with a 5ct+ ring

[diamondseeker2006]

For that matter, here's a 5 ct ugly modern cushion at $94k

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/5.01-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-323257

Makes that AVC look better and better! 5 ct diamonds are expensive!

 

[bpc]

You're not concerned about all the black at the top of the image?

My worry is this:

When confirming the sale of the rough to me the seller noted that it was expected to be a I-J/VS stone. Recently though, he told me that AGS was debating between I-J/SI, and at time of sale it was expected to be H-I/SI which contradicts our original emails stating I-J/VS.

I actually don't know anything about the fluorescence if any, in fact I don't know anything besides that it was expected to be I-J/VS.

The pricing isn't very transparent, it's taken months to get to this point with multiple delays, and they managed to lose the first stone which I haven't gotten an explanation for yet.

Thanks

 

[pyramid]

No, specialty cuts usually sell a little above RAP. The asscher was a killer deal..it sold for much less than it could have, partly because fluorescence is looked down on by many jewelers, and the seller wanted to get rid of it. It's not a fair comparison.

Realistic pricing....5 ct I VVS asscher $98k

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/5.01-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-228780

He got a killer deal on the asscher he bought. Wish I could have bought that one!

The one linked makes the AVC price more understandable and not unreasonable at all.

VVS clarity would be very rare at 5 ct so that would bump the price up a lot I would think. Does cut really cost as
much as rare color and clarity? I know ideal cut is rare but is it really a worldly known thing in the same way color and clarity is? Some jewellers still have diagrams showing cut just as a drawing with light return or even sometimes just as a shape like pear, princess, oval etc. In the UK jewellers speak of color and clarity but never cut. More towards nature's rarity than human work carried out on a rare stone. Is it not just on this forum that cut is seen as something people want to have? Don't hear about it much in the world except in brands like Hearts on Fire and they are just brands. Tiffany don't even promote it as much as color and clarity I believe.

 

[pyramid]

For instance when we see people present their very poorly cut sometimes diamonds, well very poor in symmetry to Brian Gavin for him to analyse if they can be recut, it does not seem to cost very much to get them recut to look practically like those we see sold here under the idealscope and Asset. I would think Color and Clarity would cost a lot more. Especially vvs clarity for example on a 5 carat stone compared with a recut on a 5 carat. Maybe I am wrong, just wonder though?

 

[Skhii]

You're not concerned about all the black at the top of the image?

My worry is this:

When confirming the sale of the rough to me the seller noted that it was expected to be a I-J/VS stone. Recently though, he told me that AGS was debating between I-J/SI, and at time of sale it was expected to be H-I/SI which contradicts our original emails stating I-J/VS.

I actually don't know anything about the fluorescence if any, in fact I don't know anything besides that it was expected to be I-J/VS.

The pricing isn't very transparent, it's taken months to get to this point with multiple delays, and they managed to lose the first stone which I haven't gotten an explanation for yet.

Thanks

bpc, do you have the ASET and Idealscope images?

Regarding the expected grading, you can remind Jon what it was supposed to be with the original emails. He probably just forgot with all the other stones he custom cuts for clients. It's really unfortunate that you've had multiple set-backs. Hopefully GOG will deliver a stone that satisfies your original requirements.

Regarding pricing transparency issues, are you saying they kept what you paid them for the first AVC without telling you what would happen if your second AVC does not result in the same specs as the first one?

 

[bpc]

No ASET or Idealscope yet. On pricing, yes - the price was the price of the original stone which went missing. Nothing was refunded, we just carried the same amount over to the replacement rough. They found a replacement with the stated characteristics, but I'm not sure how the pricing will work if it ends up with significantly lower clarity than VS.

To recap:
Stone lost in shipping: J/VS1, 5.04 carat
Replacement rough, estimated at time of purchase: I-J/VS, 5+ carat
AGS, after cutting replacement: I-J/SI
GoG recollection of the rough I bought: H-I/SI, 5+ carat

I will point out the discrepancy and see what they say. I assume when they leave out the number after VS or SI it means either 1 or 2? Regardless it seems a real step down in quality versus the lost stone, how should that impact pricing?

Thanks again

 

[bpc]

Bad news.

AGS came back J/SI2, which is much worse than what I thought I was buying (I-J/VS) and what they're now claiming I bought (H-I/VS2/SI1)

I've asked for a refund, hopefully they'll process it without too much more hassle. Three months after the original purchase I am still diamond-less.

 

[ac117]

Oh no that's awful, sorry bpc! Custom cutting is so unpredictable...people have recently had some great luck but things like this are bound to happen from time to time. Hopefully they could refund your money in a timely fashion.

Why don't you try IDJ again? I'm sure Yekutiel would be dedicated to finding you another perfect stone!

 

[distracts]

On other people's custom stones, when they have come back less than the grade you paid for, GOG has refunded the difference. Is that not possible for you, to just get a refund for the difference and go with the stone anyway?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am so very sorry to hear this! I am sure Jon will work with you to make you happy. All I can say is, if this stone doesn't work out, I hope you will allow Jon to source a 5 ct diamond for you, because I am sure he will take a huge loss on this one. I am 100% sure he will find you a great stone. He knows so much about cut and can help you find a really nice one if this stone does not meet your expectations. Cut wise, I am sure it is an outstanding stone. The real question is the clarity.

 

[poshmommy]

So sorry to hear about the stats on the custom cut. That is disappointing. If the rough was sold to you as a VS, than an SI2 is more than one grade lower than a VS2 and the deal should be over if you want it over. I hope for a quick resolution for you either way.

 

[bpc]

he's offering a 27.5k refund. i think it's still expensive relative to what it should have been though. maybe i'll wait for some images to decide. leaning towards full refund

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Definitely wait and see it in photos/video before you decide. Then you can move on to looking at existing stones if this one doesn't work. I hope you will let him help you find one, because great cut is so important and not all jewelers are into that at all.

 

[Resonance.Of.Life]

That's a really unfortunate incident both with the original lost stone (sucks that it just disappeared) and the new replacement not meeting the predicted outcomes. I'd be leaning towards a full refund as well. I considered going the custom diamond route too, when I was looking for an upgrade, but ended up chickening out because of the uncertain outcomes (mine would have been for a particular faceting pattern not just color). I hope the eventual outcome of this situation is to your liking; 72k seems a lot to swallow for those specs as full rap pricing for 5 carat cushion GIA J SI2 is 56k.

 

[bpc]

This is the diamond:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/august-vintage-cushion-18332

 

[bpc]

Where do you get RAP pricing? Where do you think this should be priced in relation to that?

 

[EvaEvans]

The shape of the diamond is absolutely gorgeous! I like these soft curves of the cushion! Unfortunately, SI2 clarity does not work for you...

 

[ac117]

It's a very pretty shape but I wouldn't want a 5 carat diamond that has that big inclusion on the table especially in an SI2....if it were off to the side, maybe I'd consider it. You have the budget to get what you want so I say don't settle!

 

[vintagelover229]

https://www.estatediamondjewelry.com/product/estate-5-carat-cushion-diamond-ring/

This is priced in CND so much less USD
https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/janesich-516-carat-h-vs2-gia-old-cushion-brilliant-diamond-ring/id-j_51144/

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/brilliant-cushion-cut-gia-cert-diamond-platinum-engagement-ring/id-j_237934/

Both have make offer buttons too, sure you could get it into your budget if needed

Leon has a few 5+ carat cushions in stock, pics aren't the greatest so can't say they are pretty or not
https://www.leonmege.com/true-antique-cushion-diamond?carat-loft=0.20&carat-rot=15.00&carat-left=0.20&carat-right=15.00&carat-lefts=0&carat-rights=96&color=D+-+Z&color-extra=D+-+Z&color-left=D&color-right=Z&clarity=FL+-+I2&clarity-extra=FL+-+I2&clarity-left=FL&clarity-lefts=0&clarity-rights=9&clarity-rights-check=I2&clarity-right=0%2C1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C5%2C6%2C7%2C8%2C9&search=&limitstart=0&filter_order=ct&filter_order_Dir=desc&task=&boxchecked=0&6e27ff6012422c6172237f637b07a7bb=1

 

[SandeepNischal]

Hello

I've checked all your choices but I like https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Pear/GIA-Certified-6-02-Carat-D-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-2NFCG3 this the most. Go for it. This will looks fine.

 

[vintagelover229]

From the video, can't say the diamond is not beautiful though. Someone will certainly buy it. I think unless someone looking for the crystal and knowing it is there that no one would notice it. Looks lovely.

I think we are looking at it with the most critical of eyes though-the inclusion we are looking for, where's most people wouldn't SEE it at all. Without being SI that stone would be MUCH MUCH more money-when I was hunting for a VS 5 carat + cushion (even antique) they were close to 250-300k which is more than double OP budget. I can almost say without certainly that anyone who see's it in person won't notice that small birth mark. A custom cut isn't as easy as baking-where you have the recipe and the right temp and it comes out perfect every time. We're talking about a piece of rough here, probably super hard to find in this size and with a certain budget. I'm sure the cutter didn't KNOW it was there or if he did he thought it would be cut out during the cutting process. An AVC of this size, small birth mark or not-will be a show stopper that almost no diamond will be able to match. Is it a shame it has a small inclusion that we can see in a HIGH DEF video that WE ARE LOOKING FOR-yes, it is. But if it was put in a temp setting or holder-the video taken from a normal viewing distance in lighting that it would normally be viewed in I can say that almost all of us, wouldn't be able to see it at all. I was hunting for a 5 carat AVC video on youtube and found the video, thought it would be good to share it but I realize I made an error as it was just posted and the client hadn't even viewed it yet. I'm requesting it be taken down out of respect to the OP who hasn't even seen it yet.

 

[Tourmaline]

It's an SI2. I strongly disagree with posters who say people wouldn't see it.

 

[EvaEvans]

I saw the video, the diamond is so white and sparkling! For someone, that has lower budget but don't mind the SI2 clarity this is an opportunity to get custom cut huge 5+ct! Diamond is beautiful!

 

[bpc]

Is anyone in New York and able to see the stone in person?

They offered an additional discount but based on the images the inclusion seems quite visible and is reflected a few times making it more obvious. Doesn't show in the red green ASET image though it seems. I guess I'm not that good at reading the images.

What would y'all think is a reasonable price for this rock?

Thanks!

 

[Tourmaline]

The inclusion would be a total deal breaker for me. I realize that's not the question, but I would not buy an SI2 diamond.

 

[vintagelover229]

Is anyone in New York and able to see the stone in person?

They offered an additional discount but based on the images the inclusion seems quite visible and is reflected a few times making it more obvious. Doesn't show in the red green ASET image though it seems. I guess I'm not that good at reading the images.

What would y'all think is a reasonable price for this rock?

Thanks!

There are a few PSers in the area. I am not sure who they are, but I know a few of them have visited GOG and you could trust to give their unbiased and honest opinions. For some, being an SI2 would be a deal breaker-but MANY stones-including of this size-have a lot lesser quality cut and still have inclusions. While it's not ideal-for me it wouldn't be a deal breaker. You could always have an appraiser take a look at it for you, Dave Atlas comes to mind. He would give you an honest opinion as well as able to give you a fair price to pay for the stone.

You could also start a new thread asking which PSer were in the GOG area and would be willing to take a look at it for you, I'm sure a few wouldn't mind going to visit a 5 carat AVC in person

 

[vintagelover229]

There is a members only section and they had a NYC meet up. I would see if Circe would be willing to check the stone out for you-she has a TON of experience and would be able to give you honest feedback.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/members-only-gtg/nyc-gtg-take-2-t165958.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/members-only-gtg/nyc-gtg-take-2-t165958.html[/URL]

You can contact her here
http://www.otherwise-engaged.com/

She's owned many a vintage stones, has been in the business/family in the business for years. If anyone could give you a fair opinion but also not throw the 'baby out with the bath water' per say bc of the inclusion it would be her.

 

[bpc]

Thanks, very helpful. I've reached out to Dave Atlas and Circe both. Failing that will post a new thread.

 

[PintoBean]

Hi bpc!

You're in luck - there was a sale at an arts and crafts store that brought me closer to Good Old Gold (half way), so I decided to pop in there after buying an arm load of yarn .

With regard to my taste, I love old cuts from 3 carats on lololol! (time to change my PS handle from PintoBean to BurritoGrande ). Old cuts get chunkier the larger the stone, so at first glance, I LOVE the faceting of the 5 carat AVC.

Color - the J is a warmer J to me, but I have to keep in mind that the bulbs above are warmer white in the store (to me). However, to me, when I have it in the ring holder on my pinky, it looks white enough - not cold blue white, but a warmer white. However, against white (which you see below), you can for sure see the body color. Just for reference, my skin tone runs beige neutral.

Clarity - oy ve. I see the bugger. I see it. It's right smack on the table staring back at me, taunting me, like nah nah nah here I am amongst the beautiful facets nah nah nah . As you turn the stone in different directions, it multiplies. I've decided that it's a black bunny inside the AVC because of the way it multiples, especially when you turn the AVC on it's face with it's butt in the air. Doesn't procreation start with the waving of a butt, which leads to more bunnies?
BUT it's such a gorgeous stone I'd consider inquiring about clarity enhancement, and how that would impact the stone and "eye-clean-ness"

I'm assuming that you can zoom in on the photos. If you need me to zoom in on a picture and screenshot it and upload it, let me know. It may lose some clarity if I do this, though.

I also made a video, and if you'd like, I can send it to GOG and ask them to e-mail/text it to you.

Under spotlighting in a gray holder - see how the holder looks beige in my pic? That is a combo of the overhead lights and my iphone not color balancing.

 

[PintoBean]

In a ring holder on my pinky.