Coward Cop killers in Dallas

[liaerfbv]

Here is information based on facts.

http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.

That is not what is says at all.

Are you sure?

You just said you didn't read it.

1) I said I skimmed it, and 2) I stopped wasting my time when I realized the type of statistics and justifications that were being presented.

 

[AGBF]

I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.

So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".

So much for Constitutional rights! Those Republicans/conservatives/NRA members who loooove the Second Amendment should remember that people have other rights under the Constitution as well as the right to bear arms. If they want to keep claiming a right to bear arms they should be wary about taking away other people's right to free speech and freedom of assembly and the right to due process and a lot of other rights which people are routinely expected to give up in deference to the police if they do not want to be mistreated or, if they are people of color, worse.

 

[redwood66]

Here is information based on facts.

http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

I just briefly skimmed through this, but the main point I took away from it was that because black people commit more crimes than white people do, the instances where law enforcement use deadly force is justified because the statistical analysis of crime shows that black people are arrested more than white people.

If that's not systemic racism at it's finest, I don't know what is.

That is not what is says at all.

Are you sure?

You just said you didn't read it.

1) I said I skimmed it, and 2) I stopped wasting my time when I realized the type of statistics and justifications that were being presented.

Because it doesn't fit a narrative you like? The statistics are what they are.

 

[redwood66]

I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.

So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".

So much for Constitutional rights! Those Republicans/conservatives/NRA members who loooove the Second Amendment should remember that people have other rights under the Constitution as well as the right to bear arms. If they want to keep claiming a right to bear arms they should be wary about taking away other people's right to free speech and freedom of assembly and the right to due process and a lot of other rights which people are routinely expected to give up in deference to the police if they do not want to be mistreated or, if they are people of color, worse.

I never said it was right or fair all the time but it is the truth if you want to go home. And isn't that the most important thing? Most cops don't wake up deciding to kill X,Y,Z in the morning.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here is information based on facts.

http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

Proud to be Asian...

 

[liaerfbv]

Because it doesn't fit a narrative you like? The statistics are what they are.

There is a way to present information and statistics that doesn't draw its own conclusions. It's basically the foundation of non-biased research. I'm happy to read information that conflicts with "my narrative" but I don't want to support click-bait racism.

An excerpt:

"Police take murder very seriously and investigate all cases carefully. Press and judicial system scrutiny are high. Arrest rates for murder therefore track actual crime rates more closely than for any other crime. Murder is probably the crime for which it would be most difficult for police to make “biased” arrests even if they wanted.

Given a population (page B1 of report) that was 32.8 percent white, 22.6 percent black, 28.9 percent Hispanic, and 13.0 percent Asian, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely than a white, and an Asian was twice as likely. These multiples and those for other crimes appear as graphs on the next page. A “shooting” is discharge of a firearm in which a bullet strikes a person.

There is another way to express these disparities. If New York City had been all white in 2014 — and the additional whites committed crimes at the same rates as the city’s actual white residents — there would have been 32 murder arrests instead of 374, 1,844 robbery arrests instead of 10,163, and 16 arrests for shootings rather than 503. These figures would reflect reductions in these crimes of no less than 91, 81, and 97 percent, respectively.

There are race differences in crime rates throughout the United States, but the differences are particularly sharp in New York and other major cities. This is probably because whites who live in urban centers are often relatively wealthy whereas blacks and Hispanics who live in cities are relatively poor."

So:

1 - Draws it's own conclusion that police investigate all cases carefully due to press scrutiny.

2 - Inherently racist to populate a city with "all whites" to show how much crime would have happened during a time period. I'm not even sure the point they are trying to make other than show that other races are "more violent" than whites.

3 - "This is probably because whites who live in urban centers are often relatively wealthy whereas blacks and Hispanics who live in cities are relatively poor." It's fairly poor form in a research paper to draw broad conclusions like this without data for support.

... and then I stopped reading.

 

[redwood66]

That doesn't change the stated statistical data used for the crimes or the race.

 

[AGBF]

I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.

So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".

So much for Constitutional rights! Those Republicans/conservatives/NRA members who loooove the Second Amendment should remember that people have other rights under the Constitution as well as the right to bear arms. If they want to keep claiming a right to bear arms they should be wary about taking away other people's right to free speech and freedom of assembly and the right to due process and a lot of other rights which people are routinely expected to give up in deference to the police if they do not want to be mistreated or, if they are people of color, worse.

I never said it was right or fair all the time but it is the truth if you want to go home. And isn't that the most important thing? Most cops don't wake up deciding to kill X,Y,Z in the morning.

I know this. The President knows this. Most people of color know this. But this has to change. That is what the Black Lives Matter movement is about. And that is one point this thread has touched upon. What is the point of having a Second Amendment and a right to bear arms so that the government cannot invade our homes if we must be servile before an authoritarian police force? As Americans, we should be able to speak and move freely, not be held hostage to a police force that operates without rules, outside of the law, killing at will. We should not have to do as we are told or worry that we will not be able to go home at the end of the day. You seem to think that this is acceptable in the United States of America!

AGBF

 

[VirginiaZee]

From the article Redwood posted:
"In the absence of government data, the Washington Post investigated every reported case of a fatal shooting by the police during 2015. It found 990 cases, with the following racial distribution of victims:

White: 50.0 percent (495 victims)
Black: 26.1 percent (25
Hispanic: 17.4 percent (172)
Asian: 1.4 percent (14)
Other/Unknown: 5.2 percent (51)"

The article also notes that:
"The Post’s analysis was intended to throw light on police bias but failed to indicate the races of the officers involved in fatal shootings."

 

[liaerfbv]

That doesn't change the stated statistical data used for the crimes or the race.

You're right. That still doesn't mean that black deaths are justified because their race commits more crimes than others do. That's what I mean by "systemic racism."

 

[redwood66]

I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.

So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".

So much for Constitutional rights! Those Republicans/conservatives/NRA members who loooove the Second Amendment should remember that people have other rights under the Constitution as well as the right to bear arms. If they want to keep claiming a right to bear arms they should be wary about taking away other people's right to free speech and freedom of assembly and the right to due process and a lot of other rights which people are routinely expected to give up in deference to the police if they do not want to be mistreated or, if they are people of color, worse.

I never said it was right or fair all the time but it is the truth if you want to go home. And isn't that the most important thing? Most cops don't wake up deciding to kill X,Y,Z in the morning.

I know this. The President knows this. Most people of color know this. But this has to change. That is what the Black Lives Matter movement is about. And that is one point this thread has touched upon. What is the point of having a Second Amendment and a right to bear arms so that the government cannot invade our homes if we must be servile before an authoritarian police force? As Americans, we should be able to speak and move freely, not be held hostage to a police force that operates without rules, outside of the law, killing at will. We should not have to do as we are told or worry that we will not be able to go home at the end of the day. You seem to think that this is acceptable in the United States of America!

AGBF

I am going to say this in a calm and hopefully straight forward way. Deb - I get people are upset at the videos and what seems to and may very well be excessive use of force. But to use the words I bolded above don't help this situation. It is not rampant that the police are killing innocent people even though the media tries to make us think so. It is a horrendous job they have to do and hard on families who wonder if their spouse/father/mother will come home at night. Day in and day out. Calls for domestic disputes where the boyfriend beat her repeatedly and she will not press charges. Children with bruises all over them. Whole families dead because someone "lost it." Or in my case, being attacked; spit on; having semen, sh*t, or barf thrown on you; responding to a cell where an inmate just bashed his cellmate with a weight and the gray matter is all over the walls.

I do not condone any poor behavior on any cops part but the life is one that most have no idea about or would want to. Yet these officers respond to this daily so I take it personally when someone makes comments like that.

ETA - At least I knew all the people I was dealing with were criminals. Street cops don't have that luxury.

 

[AGBF]

I just posted in the other thread that things had gotten petty and we should take a break. Over there the argument had just grown silly. But now, here, you have thrown me a curve.

I want to respond to your allegation that although you, yourself, have said people have to do exactly as the police tell them if they want to remain alive, that we are not giving up our Constitutional rights. But I will not do so now. In the interests of peace.

Deb

 

[redwood66]

Thank you and yes it has gotten heated on all sides. I just have to speak up though when my POV and experience is relevant to the discussion. It is common sense to someone like me that you don't argue with a cop and make a situation worse. That is not the time for an argument.

 

[VRBeauty]

I think part of the question is whether police use lethal force too readily, when there might be other alternatives. A few years ago there was a slew of police lethal force incidents in and around my town. One started across the street from where I live and ended a few blocks away - a deranged man got upset by something that apparently happened in a nearby grocery store, and started walking down the street threatening people and buildings with a baseball bat. (This is near a major employer at quitting time, so there were probably a lot of pedestrians around.) A policeman walked along-side him for awhile trying to talk him down and when he could not, he shot and killed him, a man armed with only a baseball bat. Yes, I realize I wasn't there and shouldn't try to second-guess the policeman, but... it's hard to believe there might not have been a better way to handle that, one that didn't involve killing the suspect.

There were also at least two standoff situations at about the same time, as I recall, where a suspect barricaded himself in a home. One resulted in the suspect's death after the police lobbed several highly incendiary smoke devices into the house, and one caused the home to go up in flames. In the second, the police essentially just waited it out until the suspect gave himself up. (I think there was a third instance that resulted in the suspect's death but don't recall any details about that.) We've also had recent incidents of police shooting and killing mentally ill people - based on news accounts - did not pose a direct threat, but for some reason did not respond to police commands as the officers wanted them to. In two cases I can think of it was family members who called for help, certainly not thinking that doing so would result in the death of their loved one.

My point is that it seems that police sometimes use lethal force too readily, rather than using is as a last resort. And yes, I know I'm armchair quarterbacking, and that the police are putting their lives at risk daily, and I fully realize that the police make thousands if not millions of good calls for every questionable call that results in a death or a headline. It just doesn't seem that shooting is always reserved as the option of last resort.

 

[Matata]

Statistics from the other thread: http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015/

 

[redwood66]

I would rather see data that shows the crimes than just a list of police departments that "killed" people. What were the circumstances? That is a anti police click bait site IMHO.

 

[Laila619]

I think part of the question is whether police use lethal force too readily, when there might be other alternatives.

Yes, so true. This "shoot first, ask questions later" BS isn't working out so well. If these officers are SO FEARFUL for their lives because of a black man reaching into his pocket to remove his license, then perhaps they shouldn't be cops in the first place. In Castile's case, his girlfriend and a CHILD were in the car with him.I don't understand what could have possibly warranted him getting shot.

 

[redwood66]

This comment by the Dallas Police Chief just made me burst into tears.

"We (the PD) do not feel support most days. Lets not let today be most days."

 

[ruby59]

It is common sense to someone like me that you don't argue with a cop and make a situation worse. That is not the time for an argument.
______________________________________________

I was just going to post the exact same thing until I saw your comment.

And yes it is obvious to most law abiding citizens.

 

[Matata]

I am going to say this in a calm and hopefully straight forward way. Deb - I get people are upset at the videos and what seems to and may very well be excessive use of force. But to use the words I bolded above don't help this situation. It is not rampant that the police are killing innocent people even though the media tries to make us think so. It is a horrendous job they have to do and hard on families who wonder if their spouse/father/mother will come home at night. Day in and day out. Calls for domestic disputes where the boyfriend beat her repeatedly and she will not press charges. Children with bruises all over them. Whole families dead because someone "lost it." Or in my case, being attacked; spit on; having semen, sh*t, or barf thrown on you; responding to a cell where an inmate just bashed his cellmate with a weight and the gray matter is all over the walls.

I do not condone any poor behavior on any cops part but the life is one that most have no idea about or would want to. Yet these officers respond to this daily so I take it personally when someone makes comments like that.

ETA - At least I knew all the people I was dealing with were criminals. Street cops don't have that luxury.

First -- you cannot be truthful if you deny the unspoken rule among police that they protect their own at all costs; that there is fear and intimidation in departments for those who would speak out against bad behavior by police or against bad police; you cannot deny there are bad officers; you cannot deny that there are decades of bad behavior perpetrated against minorities by police and officers have not been held accountable; you cannot deny that there is a systemic illness among police departments in this nation that needs to be addressed. I have detectives in my family and the stories they have shared about their brand of justice for some perps is horrific. The stuff they see is as bad as what you described but the result shouldn't be murderers who are protected by a shield on their chests.

That said, what police endure on a daily basis is appalling. I can understand where it could twist their psyches, where they would merge the color of skin into the reason for the crime and lose the ability to distinguish that there is a difference between the two.

I don't know what police departments do to help officers -- is there continued counseling and psychological testing to determine if any are suffering from PTSD? Do assignments get rotated so officers get a break from the worst of the worst? Is there psychological testing for recruits to screen out those who are already at-risk for abusing their potential authority?

Whether we like it or not, the responsibility for restoring public trust in those who have chosen to be police officers rests with police departments working with community organizations. There are police departments that have managed to do this so there are models out there from which to learn.

 

[Niel]

I get you're arguing a cops job is hard to defend good cops. You want people to understand the stress put on cops and that most cops are good cops. But when you use that defense towards cops that have murdered it sounds like making excuses for bad cops and justifying their crimes/incompetency

 

[ame]

I am not saying to not be upset about alleged police shootings. I am saying don't indict until all the facts are known. That is how justice works, innocent until proven guilty. You are deciding beforehand by calling it "murder."

ETA - Just one day in my career. Quite graphic so be forewarned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6kMZjmM60k

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

I am retired law enforcement and the video was posted because I was there that day in that mess. I wasn't inferring anything, that is how criminals are and none of my thoughts in sharing it were race involved. You have your life with your experiences and that was a glimpse into mine. I come to this discussion with a completely different view than the people on the other thread who are making judgments on videos of only part of what happened. If the officers in the video were in the wrong that will come out.

I understand people are fearful but to live in fear that any cop might just shoot you out of the blue is outrageous. Do what a cop tells you no matter if you think it is wrong or not. It will get sorted out and you can complain to the superiors later. At least you will walk away 99.9% of the time.

I am not at all fearful that a cop will shoot me out of the blue. I am a middle-aged white woman in America. I think I am pretty much invisible to cops actually. Where did you get the idea that most people fear this? One can, at the same time, feel completely safe around law enforcement in general and be outraged and horrified by violence perpetrated by cops or against cops. The peaceful protestors in Dallas were there WITH local law enforcement.

"That is how criminals are" is not on point in this discussion. This is America. We won't stand for executing people in the street because "that is how criminals are."

Your last 3 sentences are ridiculous. I'm sorry, I tried to think of a more diplomatic way to put it but I just can't. "It will get sorted out and you can complain to superiors later." Really?? When you're DEAD? These sentences are just sad irony. Castile did what he was told to do. (Why he thought the 2nd Amendment was for black men, I'll never understand.) Oh well, I guess it just sucks to be the 0.1%.

Who is indicting before the facts are known? Citizens are being shot and killed without being charged with committing a crime. These are facts recorded on videotape. The perpetrators of these crimes should absolutely be charged. The evidence should be examined in a trial by jury. Isn't that supposed to be a basic tenet of the freedom we enjoy as Americans? Or is it only for certain Americans, like the ones whose ethnicities are NOT represented by the criminals shown in the video you link to.

What is it you are trying to infer with this video? Is it that Hispanic and African American gang members cause riots in prison therefore a cop in Minnesota or Baton Rouge should be very wary of a black man if his taillight is busted or if he is selling CDs? The cop should automatically assume his life is in danger and fire his weapon? Does the fear of gang violence in your video trickle down to fear of a black woman who is smoking a cigarette when being pulled over for failing to use a turn signal?

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. People are rightfully outraged and downright scared by ALL of these horrific events. The protestors in Dallas were not protesting against all cops. NO ONE IS.

So I have to do whatever a cop tells me to, no matter what, so I won't get shot?

So much for "protect and serve".

Maria, both of your postings are right on target. You absolutely nail every point I would have liked to make. Thank you for writing it all out.

Deb

Could not agree more with Maria, KSinger and Deb right here. Right.On.Target. I'd also like the exonerated man to stop having his image spread around as if he is the guilty shooter. He's just getting a target on his head and he did nothing wrong except be black, legally carry his firearm, and get profiled while he marched in the protest peacefully.

 

[redwood66]

I am going to say this in a calm and hopefully straight forward way. Deb - I get people are upset at the videos and what seems to and may very well be excessive use of force. But to use the words I bolded above don't help this situation. It is not rampant that the police are killing innocent people even though the media tries to make us think so. It is a horrendous job they have to do and hard on families who wonder if their spouse/father/mother will come home at night. Day in and day out. Calls for domestic disputes where the boyfriend beat her repeatedly and she will not press charges. Children with bruises all over them. Whole families dead because someone "lost it." Or in my case, being attacked; spit on; having semen, sh*t, or barf thrown on you; responding to a cell where an inmate just bashed his cellmate with a weight and the gray matter is all over the walls.

I do not condone any poor behavior on any cops part but the life is one that most have no idea about or would want to. Yet these officers respond to this daily so I take it personally when someone makes comments like that.

ETA - At least I knew all the people I was dealing with were criminals. Street cops don't have that luxury.

First -- you cannot be truthful if you deny the unspoken rule among police that they protect their own at all costs; that there is fear and intimidation in departments for those who would speak out against bad behavior by police or against bad police; you cannot deny there are bad officers; you cannot deny that there are decades of bad behavior perpetrated against minorities by police and officers have not been held accountable; you cannot deny that there is a systemic illness among police departments in this nation that needs to be addressed. I have detectives in my family and the stories they have shared about their brand of justice for some perps is horrific. The stuff they see is as bad as what you described but the result shouldn't be murderers who are protected by a shield on their chests.

That said, what police endure on a daily basis is appalling. I can understand where it could twist their psyches, where they would merge the color of skin into the reason for the crime and lose the ability to distinguish that there is a difference between the two.

I don't know what police departments do to help officers -- is there continued counseling and psychological testing to determine if any are suffering from PTSD? Do assignments get rotated so officers get a break from the worst of the worst? Is there psychological testing for recruits to screen out those who are already at-risk for abusing their potential authority?

Whether we like it or not, the responsibility for restoring public trust in those who have chosen to be police officers rests with police departments working with community organizations. There are police departments that have managed to do this so there are models out there from which to learn.

I can only speak for my 25+ years of experience. My first thought is to my partners and their safety. There likely are departments out there where management foments or allows bad behavior. But that is not my personal experience across 3 prisons and hundreds of employees and over 25 years. Plus dozens of friends in local police and sheriff departments. I am sorry you have officers in your family that have who have done or seen bad things. I could not tell by your post.

It is a difficult life and one that most could never imagine. It affects everything you do. The negative outlook you develop is almost unbearable. And may very well be unbearable by some. A high percentage of cops die within a couple of years after retirement. Suicide is high. I hope I make it more than a couple years.

 

[Niel]

I am going to say this in a calm and hopefully straight forward way. Deb - I get people are upset at the videos and what seems to and may very well be excessive use of force. But to use the words I bolded above don't help this situation. It is not rampant that the police are killing innocent people even though the media tries to make us think so. It is a horrendous job they have to do and hard on families who wonder if their spouse/father/mother will come home at night. Day in and day out. Calls for domestic disputes where the boyfriend beat her repeatedly and she will not press charges. Children with bruises all over them. Whole families dead because someone "lost it." Or in my case, being attacked; spit on; having semen, sh*t, or barf thrown on you; responding to a cell where an inmate just bashed his cellmate with a weight and the gray matter is all over the walls.

I do not condone any poor behavior on any cops part but the life is one that most have no idea about or would want to. Yet these officers respond to this daily so I take it personally when someone makes comments like that.

ETA - At least I knew all the people I was dealing with were criminals. Street cops don't have that luxury.

First -- you cannot be truthful if you deny the unspoken rule among police that they protect their own at all costs; that there is fear and intimidation in departments for those who would speak out against bad behavior by police or against bad police; you cannot deny there are bad officers; you cannot deny that there are decades of bad behavior perpetrated against minorities by police and officers have not been held accountable; you cannot deny that there is a systemic illness among police departments in this nation that needs to be addressed. I have detectives in my family and the stories they have shared about their brand of justice for some perps is horrific. The stuff they see is as bad as what you described but the result shouldn't be murderers who are protected by a shield on their chests.

That said, what police endure on a daily basis is appalling. I can understand where it could twist their psyches, where they would merge the color of skin into the reason for the crime and lose the ability to distinguish that there is a difference between the two.

I don't know what police departments do to help officers -- is there continued counseling and psychological testing to determine if any are suffering from PTSD? Do assignments get rotated so officers get a break from the worst of the worst? Is there psychological testing for recruits to screen out those who are already at-risk for abusing their potential authority?

Whether we like it or not, the responsibility for restoring public trust in those who have chosen to be police officers rests with police departments working with community organizations. There are police departments that have managed to do this so there are models out there from which to learn.

I can only speak for my 25+ years of experience. My first thought is to my partners and their safety. There likely are departments out there where management foments or allows bad behavior. But that is not my personal experience across 3 prisons and hundreds of employees and over 25 years. Plus dozens of friends in local police and sheriff departments. I am sorry you have officers in your family that have who have done or seen bad things. I could not tell by your post.

It is a difficult life and one that most could never imagine. It affects everything you do. The negative outlook you develop is almost unbearable. And may very well be unbearable by some. A high percentage of cops die within a couple of years after retirement. Suicide is high. I hope I make it more than a couple years.

Many of your points are valid.

But they should not be used to take away the problems the black community faces.

 

[ame]

The more I read from you, redwood, the more I feel this video is directed towards you. You may have seen some things, but your vision is most definitely black vs white. And it's disturbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hBxxkgJCCQ

 

[redwood66]

I am not taking anything away from anyone. I am posting another opinion.

 

[Matata]

I am not taking anything away from anyone. I am posting another opinion.

What are your thoughts about things that should be done for officers to help cope with the rigors of the job? Are there programs of any sort or are they treated the same as military veterans which is pretty much "thank you for putting your life on the line for our country but you're on your own now"?

 

[redwood66]

The more I read from you, redwood, the more I feel this video is directed towards you. You may have seen some things, but your vision is most definitely black vs white. And it's disturbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hBxxkgJCCQ

Are you accusing me of being racist? Have I written anything about race at all? I am talking about cops. I feel for that woman in the video and I feel her pain!!! How dare you accuse me of being racist!

ETA - I am seething about this comment. You have no idea who I am.

 

[redwood66]

I am not taking anything away from anyone. I am posting another opinion.

What are your thoughts about things that should be done for officers to help cope with the rigors of the job? Are there programs of any sort or are they treated the same as military veterans which is pretty much "thank you for putting your life on the line for our country but you're on your own now"?

There are programs like EAP (Employee Assistance Prog.) while you are working but it isn't considered being tough to get help. Most of my coworkers were men and we tried to help each other and decompress but it just gets to you.

 

[Matata]

There are programs like EAP (Employee Assistance Prog.) while you are working but it isn't considered being tough to get help. Most of coworkers were men and we tried to help each other and decompress but it just gets to you.

This is an example of problems I spoke about in police culture. It is a notion that has to change. People can be tough as nails, still seek assistance for problems, still be compassionate toward others. You must have some opinions/ideas about what can be done to help officers cope with the horrors of the job. I would love to hear them.