Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom law"

[House Cat]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Realistically speaking, law or no, a law breaking predator will throw on a dress and lipstick and sit in bathroom if that is his thing. I can see a scenario where there is a man wearing lipstick and a dress and hanging out in a bathroom and there are women using the bathroom anyway, while giving him the side eye, but never saying a word. That is how people are. They see something that is off, but they keep their mouths shut.

From what I understand, and it is very little, sexual predators are driven by a strong internal need. They aren't sitting around waiting for legislation in order to fulfill that need.


Another thing... Transgender people are already using the restrooms of their choice. They have been doing so for years. Get over it.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

The Great American Bathroom Debate pales in comparison to Mississippi's new law https://www.thenation.com/article/why-mississippis-new-anti-lgbt-law-is-the-most-dangerous-one-to-be-passed-yet/

I stated early in this thread that these laws are motivated by religious belief. There is no denying it. A more pressing discussion in this country needs to be about curtailing the insidious effects of religious belief on basic human rights. This religious mindset has to be curtailed. I find it revolting how much religion negatively impacts basic freedoms -- who you love, who you marry, what you do in the privacy of your bedroom and where you can take a shit in public.

WORD. I totally and completely agree.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

They have been doing so for years. Get over it.
___________________________________________

I always shake my head when I see this type of response.

What are those who disagree supposed to get over - our opinion, our concerns, our rights.

I am sure you do not appreciate that response from people who feel bathrooms should be separate and that you should just "get over it."

 

[kenny]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

They have been doing so for years. Get over it.
___________________________________________

I always shake my head when I see this type of response.

What are those who disagree supposed to get over - our opinion, our concerns, our rights.

I am sure you do not appreciate that response from people who feel bathrooms should be separate and that you should just "get over it."

It is not those who embrace the future who should "get over it", but those who cling to the past.

Equality will take time, but because equality is moral it is inevitable.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

They have been doing so for years. Get over it.
___________________________________________

I always shake my head when I see this type of response.

What are those who disagree supposed to get over - our opinion, our concerns, our rights.

I am sure you do not appreciate that response from people who feel bathrooms should be separate and that you should just "get over it."

I get it Ruby. I understand your concerns and make no judgment about your opinion on the issue. I don't share a bathroom with my husband. It was a non-negotiable for me. We have separate bathrooms. I don't appreciate sharing public restrooms. No one should be subjected to the biological sounds and malodorous aromas of others. But I will gladly adapt for issues that I believe are bigger than me and my comfort level. There will still be choices, even if they are more limited choices, to make for those who do not want to use gender-inclusive bathrooms should that be a universally implemented program in the U.S.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

It is not those who embrace the future who must "get over it", but those who embrace the past.

Equality may take time, but because equality is moral it is inevitable.

________________________________________________

I am all for equality. Everyone should live their life as they see fit as long as they do not encroach on someone else's ability to do the same.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I don't share a bathroom with my husband. It was a non-negotiable for me. We have separate bathrooms. I don't appreciate sharing public restrooms. No one should be subjected to the biological sounds and malodorous aromas of others. But I will gladly adapt for issues that I believe are bigger than me and my comfort level. There will still be choices, even if they are more limited choices, to make for those who do not want to use gender-inclusive bathrooms should that be a universally implemented program in the U.S.

___________________________________________________________________
For some of us it goes a bit further then sounds and smells and religious beliefs.

I was not going to put this out there because it is private, but here it is.

I was bothered as a child by a funny uncle. After my dad died, he told me he was going to help me grow up and exposed himself to me.

I am not prejudiced and since my husband and I are Inter faith it is not because of religion.

I, like many other women, would find it traumatizing to have to share a bathroom with a strange man.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I don't share a bathroom with my husband. It was a non-negotiable for me. We have separate bathrooms. I don't appreciate sharing public restrooms. No one should be subjected to the biological sounds and malodorous aromas of others. But I will gladly adapt for issues that I believe are bigger than me and my comfort level. There will still be choices, even if they are more limited choices, to make for those who do not want to use gender-inclusive bathrooms should that be a universally implemented program in the U.S.

___________________________________________________________________
For some of us it goes a bit further then sounds and smells and religious beliefs.

I was not going to put this out there because it is private, but here it is.

I was bothered as a child by a funny uncle. After my dad died, he told me he was going to help me grow up and exposed himself to me.

I am not prejudiced and since my husband and I are Inter faith it is not because of religion.

I, like many other women, would find it traumatizing to have to share a bathroom with a strange man.

And I get this too. My dad molested me when I was nine. When I was eleven, I was knocked unconscious and raped by a cousin's husband. I grew up amid violence, and especially violence toward women. I was determined I would not let what happened to me define me or deter me from living life on my terms. I struggled for decades to put my demons in sleep mode. They're still there though. I am in no way suggesting that my way of confronting sexual abuse is appropriate for you or anyone else. It will be interesting to see how the various needs of all traumatized individuals can be met should gender-inclusive bathrooms become the norm.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Matata you are one of my favorite people on PS.

Ruby and Matata I am so very sorry you were the subjects of sexual assault, as children or otherwise. I was not as assaulted.as a child, but was raped in my early twenties. As someone said in this thread, the discussion SHOULD be about the pervasive problem of sexual assault in our country.. Not about the transgender population. It's a red herring.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

As someone said in this thread, the discussion SHOULD be about the pervasive problem of sexual assault in our country.. Not about the transgender population. It's a red herring.

That was me. And yup, the discussion has really nothing to do with ~.03% of the population. It has everything to do with males growing up thinking that everything, including other people's bodies, are there for THEIR taking. And there is still this backwards perception that females provoke males into assault just by their bodies being visible.

Modesty is one thing when you're worried about exposing skin in inclement weather or not wanting a sunburn. It is a whole other can o' worms when it boils down to religious nonsense that men have used to keep control over women for thousands of years. It is because of man's interpretation of religious teachings or history that we have such a continued problem with sexual assault. Making laws about bathrooms and gender is nothing but a BAND-AID, bottom line.

 

[E B]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Replace bathrooms with guns and I'm infringing on your rights.

That's a bingo! It's easy for so many justify this because it targets such a tiny population, but oh, man, when the majority's rights are threatened?

I'm glad to see that we've had 5 pages of discussion so far on this topic, but I would like to see more from those who support HB2 given all the holes poked in the basic defense. I'm not calling you out to be confrontational, but if you're going to put a group of people who are at a greater risk of being assaulted in harm's way to protect young women from possible perverts (who are stupid enough to think that a wig and lipstick in a woman's bathroom is the best and safest (for them) way to gain access to young children), you better have an ironclad defense. Not "but the perverts might..." or a couple of outlier examples, because we could apply that kind of thinking to a host of other issues like the one Niel listed. The fact that this, the "bathroom law" (smokescreen) wasn't an issue until this law made it an issue is telling enough.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

People who are born in women's' bodies also transition. I would be fine with a trans person in the men's room. It is the peeing and washing the hands that is most important. I don't think that there are standing urinals in women's restrooms that a pre-op transperson can just whip it out and wave it at the 10 year old girls. Dont women assault women? men assault men? How about a third restroom for assaulters so that people who identify as women can use the womens room, people who identify as men can use the men's room, and people who are assaulters of any gender can have their free for all, or just mind their own business and get on with life as the vast majority does daily? If one is in the restroom, checking out a strangers junk to be able to determine their birth gender, one should be looking within at one's own psyche's junk.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

True Gypsy. So many factors contribute to sexual violence and I believe that the strongest defense against it should start with families although I have no idea how it would work. Families working in partnership with schools.

My situation is a textbook case of violence begets violence. My paternal grandmother raised my dad and his 3 siblings alone. At one point she had to place her 3 boys in an orphanage and took her daughter with her while she worked at any job she could to raise enough money to provide a home for her family. The boys were in that orphanage for 5 years. My dad hinted at terrible things that were done to boys there but never got specific. My surviving uncle said my grandmother came to get them on a Christmas eve.

My grandfather abandoned her right after the birth of their last child. No one talked much about it when I was growing up but the results of family hardship were easy to see -- my father and his older brother were alcoholics by ages 14 & 16 -- seeking solace in the numbing effects of liquor. My father was drunk when he molested me. My aunt and her younger brother became devout Christians as did my grandmother. Hoping their faith would rescue them. My aunt devoted her life to caring for my grandmother and her alcoholic sons. She never married and died a bitter old woman. My dad and mother split when I was 9 and he and his older brother lived with my aunt and their mother until they died. The younger brother became an ordained minister and went to Africa. The minister was the only one who managed to lead a relatively normal life. He is also the only one in the family who got a college education. My aunt graduated high school. My dad lied about his age and joined the Navy at 16. He and his brother stopped going to school in 8th grade.

My mother's side of the family were, as my father's, mired in poverty but alcohol wasn't a factor there. My maternal grandparents were Italian immigrants and ruled their kids with an iron hand. My mother didn't go on a date unaccompanied by one of her brothers until she was 25. LOL. And look what good that did, marrying an alcoholic who beat her.

The man who raped me was an alcoholic, drug-addicted Vietnam vet with PTSD and an explosive temper. He too was raised by a single mom in appalling circumstances. He was an in-law on my mother's side.

I am still filled with sadness at the lives of those two men. What they endured as children and young adults irrevocably damaged them. They lived lives filled with instability and violence and died sad deaths.

They lost their innocence and sense of safety when they were young. I believe their rage and subsequent behavior towards me was a result of their resenting innocence in others. Theirs was stripped away unmercifully, they hated seeing innocence in others, and probably felt it would bring them relief to strip others of their innocence.

I felt the same way for years after the abuse. I would get filled with near blinding rage when I saw kids with 2 parents who had jobs and could afford safe housing, clothes, and toys for their kids. I wanted to hurt those kids. Not because of their material possessions, but because they were safe from what I knew and experienced. I've said it before in other similar discussions on PS, I'm glad I never had a maternal instinct because I've always feared I would be an abusive parent.

So, to end this encyclopedia (and with gratitude and apologies to anyone who has read thus far), poverty, lack of education and opportunity, abusive childhoods contributed to what happened to me. It was and still is a fairly common scenario in the ghetto. I don't have experience with the factors that motivate people of privilege toward sexual violence but I'd still bet that education is a key in that socio-economic strata also. By education I mean teaching respect, gender role play, how channel bad feelings into productive ones, et al.

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Matata and Ruby, I am so sorry you went through such horrendous experiences and endured all that you have.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Just me, but I agree with Momhappy, Diamondseeker, and Ruby59

You are in the minority group ...

 

[packrat]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Not a fan of the get over it thing. That goes a long way toward causing hackles to rise and heels to dig in which does nothing to help cause further dialogue. Common sense and common courtesy toward others who share a differing thought opinion or belief goes a long way toward bringing people together and bridging divides. And isn't that what we want? Or is it better to say "I have guns get over it" "I'm an atheist and there is no such thing as God. Get over it". I changed my opinion and beliefs on gay people and religion and other things when I was in my early 20s. It didn't happen bc someone said get over it.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Matata,

That's interesting. My rape happened from the other side of the spectrum. He was a good friend of a friend. Very affluent family, Ivy League education, and a frankly misogynistic cultural background (but then I'm Iranian, so I am used to such a culture and didn't realize how dangerous it was). He offered, as a friend, for me to stay with him for a weekend while I visited the city he lived in. My friend always stayed with him and said he was a great host and he loved to entertain. I trusted her.

When I got there he put me in several uncomfortable situations. One after the next. And I shot him down and made it clear I was not interested in anything beyond friendship. At first politely. And then more firmly. It culminated in him being a 'gentleman' and offering me the bedroom instead of the couch, where I had been planning on crashing for the night. He was very firm that I should take the bed, to the extent that he just put my stuff in there and walked out locking the door behind him. Then once I was in bed, 'surprising me' by joining me there. Apparently he had a key (it was his place).

It was pretty much straight date rape. Except for the fact that I didn't even consider us on a date at any point. Once I got over the shock of it (I ended up locking myself in the bathroom after for a while), I railed at him and told him exactly what I thought of him for about an hour. I was raging and I called him every name in the book. But most of all 'rapist' and enjoyed every flinch on his face each time I said it.

I went to a hotel immediately after. And I called my friend. She didn't believe me that he raped me. She said I was flirtatious and said I must have led him on and that it was likely a misunderstanding.

That didn't help. I decided denial was the way to go. And acted out as a result of inability to process. It took a long time for me to get to a reasonably healthy place about it.

So my assault was a result of a number of factors. Poverty and ignorance were none of them though. His sense of entitlement, his culture's disrespect of women, his opinion that he was 'due' access to my body because I was in his bed and staying with him.

What strikes a cord with me in today's campaigns against rape that focus on men, not women. It's a refreshing change.

It does start with families and extends to schools. Women have to stop being blamed for their rape in our culture. And I am so happy that in my lifetime there are PSA's like this one: http://www.takepart.com/video/2014/04/29/james-bond-same-page-president-obama-incredible-sexual-assault-psa

 

[AGBF]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I think it's pretty obvious that the people of Poise and Depends are behind this.

This is making me laugh. I am an older woman. I am 65 now. First, I have no idea what Poise is. Second, I only wish I could have more modesty in my life. Lately my father, who is 95, but will be 96 if he lives until October, has started wearing adult diapers. That does not seem to stop the problems, however.

I am his daughter, not his wife. It is true that I was a nurse's aide when I was 18. Back then I wanted to become a doctor, so I kept taking jobs in hospitals. But it didn't prepare me for seeing my father wet his pants; take them off and throw them on the floor; throw his diapers on the floor; walk around naked from the waist down-forgetting his walker and inviting a fall; and so forth. I cannot tell you how many times a day I have to steer him to a bed a chair and find a new diaper or pair of underpants and pajama bottoms for him, then pull them up because he doesn't have the strength (while he stands and clings to his walker).

It is my belief that this nefarious law was passed by bad southern men. They want to control women's bodies (abortion or no abortions) and bathrooms. It isn't elderly women like Ruby (who may not be elderly like me) and me who are to blame for nastiness towards others!

I am the universal mother.

Deb

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Gypsy, sorry I missed this before. I am so sorry about that horrible experience you went through and (((hugs))) and love to you.


Deb, I agree. Men are the root of all (or at least most) of the evil behavior that exists in the world and GRrrrr it makes me so angry sometimes. How dare they pass laws that hurt so many people. Of course I am thinking of our pro choice fight right this minute but it applies to so many other issues. I agree with you even if you are posting a bit tongue and cheek. And well so am I...at least somewhat because truth does ring in that statement at least a little...


And Monnie, LOL. Funny girl.

I think it's pretty obvious that the people of Poise and Depends are behind this.

This is making me laugh. I am an older woman. I am 65 now. First, I have no idea what Poise is. Second, I only wish I could have more modesty in my life. Lately my father, who is 95, but will be 96 if he lives until October, has started wearing adult diapers. That does not seem to stop the problems, however.

I am his daughter, not his wife. It is true that I was a nurse's aide when I was 18. Back then I wanted to become a doctor, so I kept taking jobs in hospitals. But it didn't prepare me for seeing my father wet his pants; take them off and throw them on the floor; throw his diapers on the floor; walk around naked from the waist down-forgetting his walker and inviting a fall; and so forth. I cannot tell you how many times a day I have to steer him to a bed a chair and find a new diaper or pair of underpants and pajama bottoms for him, then pull them up because he doesn't have the strength (while he stands and clings to his walker).

It is my belief that this nefarious law was passed by bad ---- men. They want to control women's bodies (abortion or no abortions) and bathrooms. It isn't elderly women like Ruby (who may not be elderly like me) and me who are to blame for nastiness towards others!

I am the universal mother.

Deb

 

[monarch64]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I think it's pretty obvious that the people of Poise and Depends are behind this.

This is making me laugh. I am an older woman. I am 65 now. First, I have no idea what Poise is. Second, I only wish I could have more modesty in my life. Lately my father, who is 95, but will be 96 if he lives until October, has started wearing adult diapers. That does not seem to stop the problems, however.

I am his daughter, not his wife. It is true that I was a nurse's aide when I was 18. Back then I wanted to become a doctor, so I kept taking jobs in hospitals. But it didn't prepare me for seeing my father wet his pants; take them off and throw them on the floor; throw his diapers on the floor; walk around naked from the waist down-forgetting his walker and inviting a fall; and so forth. I cannot tell you how many times a day I have to steer him to a bed a chair and find a new diaper or pair of underpants and pajama bottoms for him, then pull them up because he doesn't have the strength (while he stands and clings to his walker).

It is my belief that this nefarious law was passed by bad southern men. They want to control women's bodies (abortion or no abortions) and bathrooms. It isn't elderly women like Ruby (who may not be elderly like me) and me who are to blame for nastiness towards others!

I am the universal mother.

Deb

Haha, I'm glad someone got the joke. Adult incontinence products are marketed towards all kinds of people, not just the elderly. Astronauts wear them. Poise pads are marketed to women who have developed bladder leakage issues due to carrying/birthing children. I was just pointing out that maybe these companies will find new markets if they think people are going to start boycotting restrooms because they're making a political statement or because they refuse to share bathrooms with anyone but their own gender. Sometimes I forget that PS is a VERY. SERIOUS. WEBSITE.

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Well now Monarch, you went and opened up a whole new can of worms -- equal rights for those who wear different underwear. So now we'll have to build bathrooms for those who leak between goes because their panties, are, GASP, different from mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxML8iusaqo

 

[monarch64]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Well now Monarch, you went and opened up a whole new can of worms -- equal rights for those who wear different underwear. So now we'll have to build bathrooms for those who leak between goes because their panties, are, GASP, different from mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxML8iusaqo

SEE?!

 

[Matata]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Two of my fav signages

 

[AGBF]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Well now Monarch, you went and opened up a whole new can of worms -- equal rights for those who wear different underwear. So now we'll have to build bathrooms for those who leak between goes because their panties, are, GASP, different from mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxML8iusaqo

I didn't know this movement existed. How cool!

 

[autumngems]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Now Ringo Starr and Cindy Lauper, give me a break!!!
Yes speak out and tell your feelings about it, your a celebrity and people will listen! But cancelling tours to prove a point is not the way to go in my opinion. Just alienating any fans you had that had already made travel plans that can't be cancelled and such.

 

[autumngems]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Now Ringo Starr and Cindy Lauper, give me a break!!!
Yes speak out and tell your feelings about it, your a celebrity and people will listen! But cancelling tours to prove a point is not the way to go in my opinion. Just alienating any fans you had that had already made travel plans that can't be cancelled and such.

 

[ruby59]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

It isn't elderly women like Ruby (who may not be elderly like me) and me who are to blame for nastiness towards others!
________________________________________________

Thank you. Also to Gypsy and Missy for your kind words.

And Matata I am so sorry what you had to endure.

I am around 10 years younger then you, AGBF. " Live and let live and who am I to judge you", was how I was raised and how I brought up my children as well.

But there are some here judging us. They claim jokingly, but I believe you do not joke about what you are not thinking.

Yes, I am part of the poise patrol, and have been for a while thanks to 3 pregnancies, 2 total episiotomies, and a prolapsed cervix.
And I was only in my 40s when it started.

I also have an other issue as I stated upthread.

So please do not lump people like me into the religious fanatics or those that should just get over it.

If you are all about equal rights, that should mean all of us. We are not nasty, just dealing with our own issues. And please do not negate us by telling us they are no big deal or that in comparison with trans people, it is not nearly as bad.

It is not one or the other.

 

[missy]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

Good point Ruby. It reminds me of the saying (one I wholeheartedly believe in) "don't judge a person till you have walked a mile in their shoes". So true. And also another one of my faves: "Be kind to everyone you meet because you don't know what battle they are fighting" (Please excuse the inexact quote I am paraphrasing).

However I also embrace the do what you want to do as long as it doesn't negatively impact me in any way. Tongue in cheek of course but as with many sayings there is much truth to it. I just look at it this way. The transgender individual deserves to be true to their gender identity. It seems much more unfair not to let them use the gender restroom they identify with than it seems to be unfair to the people who are against it. That is there really is no harm in letting them use the right restroom for them. While I do see the other points of view I just feel it is more fair to let them live as they feel they were born to live. Because goodness knows they have been fighting a hard battle and deserve a break. IMO.

So while it is not entirely based upon religion you have to admit religion is pervasive in our society to the point of controlling many things and I, for one, am against religion being in our politics and other places I feel they have no reason to be. I have no problem with people who are religious until those people want to tell me what I should do. So live and let live is a theme many religions could use a good lesson in IMO.

 

[kenny]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxML8iusaqo

 

[LAJennifer]

Re: Bruce Springsteen cancels concert in NC over "bathroom l

I have used the men's room more times than I can count. When there is a long line for the women's room, I'm not going to wait for very long.