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Bad news from Jerry Newman- what to do?

Logan Sapphire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
2,405
Jerry received my sapphire and emailed with bad news. The stone apparently is way too shallow and the window takes up almost the entire table, which is much worse than I think he or I had anticipated (I guess being set closed up the appearance of the window somewhat?).

He said he could do a drastic recut to make it into a much better stone, but that would mean going from a 1.41ct to definitely under 1 ct and clearly unable to fit back into its halo setting. Or, he could cut it as best as he could to keep the same face up size, but would mean a window would still be visible when the stone was tilted beween 1/2 to 3 degrees (depending on how he can cut it). He said he'd be able to tell very quickly if the compromised angles will work or not, at which point I'd be able to give the green light for the more drastic recut.

The cost of doing the drastic recut would obviously increase, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm just torn on what to do.

Thoughts?

ETA- here are two pics of the loose stone- you can see the sizeable window.

_17714.jpg

_17715.jpg
 

endless_summer

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 15, 2013
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1,103
Honestly, I would ask him what he advises. I would think that a tilt window at a 1/2 to 3 degrees means that you'd be looking at a window from anytime that the stone moved. Maybe there is a compromise somewhere in between? When I sent my stone off, I had sent pics of the loose stone face-up and profile, we corresponded about it beforehand, and he suggested that we could compromise on the stone's pavillion angles by a couple of degrees to maintain the stone's face-up size if we needed to. He and I were both very pleased with the result (and, by pleased, I mean I was over the moon), but I don't know how much he needed to compromise, nor do I know exactly how much my stone has to tilt before it shows a tilt window to give you a frame of reference. I have no doubt that given the opportunity to fully re-cut your stone that it would turn out beautifully.

If you have dramatic tilt windows, will you wish that you had moved forward on a more drastic cut? Will your halo setting cup to stone to reduce how apparent the tilt windows would be? It's really a question of prioritizing cut v. size on your part, and only you know how you come out on that.

I want to think that selling the stone or setting was also a thought, so if loss of weight for those purposes is a concern, I would think that you'd be fine either way. Some folks are not gonna care about the window and just want the size - bonus, you can pop it back into the setting and sell the ring. Others will be more discerning about cut and not want to go anywhere near it with the window. But, then you'd be looking at selling the setting and stone separately, which may be more difficult/time-consuming and result in less money to you.

I wish I had a clear answer for you, but these are the things that I would be thinking about.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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38,364
A full recut is definitely out of the question if I owned the sapphire. There is a significant price drop when the stone is under 1 carat in addition to the higher cutting fee for the major reconstruction. I would either leave it or tweak it to balance carat/size and cut. If you are selling the sapphire in the setting, I would leave it as is. If you are selling the sapphire loose, it would look more attractive with a minor cut adjustment.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
the window is too much for me. perhaps I'd have it recut to under a carat and have it made into a pendant? or a stacker ring.

and Chrono is right: those less discerning won't even care about a window if you put it back into the setting and sell it.
 

Michael_E

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,290
Logan Sapphire|1399295724|3666484 said:
Or, he could cut it as best as he could to keep the same face up size, but would mean a window would still be visible when the stone was tilted beween 1/2 to 3 degrees (depending on how he can cut it). He said he'd be able to tell very quickly if the compromised angles will work or not, at which point I'd be able to give the green light for the more drastic recut.

The cost of doing the drastic recut would obviously increase, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm just torn on what to do.

Thoughts?

If he can cut it so that there is no window when not tilted, then do it. A tilt of a couple of degrees to show a tilt window automatically cuts the size of the window that you see in half. If he re-cuts the crown so that the table is dramatically smaller it will also reduce the tilt window dramatically. These things can be modeled in a good rendering program before any cuts are made and so there is no guessing about what the end result will be and no risk. Jerry probably doesn't use this sort of software since it used mostly by metalsmiths to show people rendered CAD models of their jewelry, (but it works just as well for "cutting" stones without actually cutting them). If you can post the size numbers of the stone and a good end view, (not side view), picture, (meaning a silhouette with the stone held with tweezers), I can show you what I mean with before and after renders. No, I don't want to steal Jerry's job or do re-cut work, this is just for fun.
 

Logan Sapphire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
2,405
Michael_E|1399342626|3666938 said:
Logan Sapphire|1399295724|3666484 said:
Or, he could cut it as best as he could to keep the same face up size, but would mean a window would still be visible when the stone was tilted beween 1/2 to 3 degrees (depending on how he can cut it). He said he'd be able to tell very quickly if the compromised angles will work or not, at which point I'd be able to give the green light for the more drastic recut.

The cost of doing the drastic recut would obviously increase, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm just torn on what to do.

Thoughts?

If he can cut it so that there is no window when not tilted, then do it. A tilt of a couple of degrees to show a tilt window automatically cuts the size of the window that you see in half. If he re-cuts the crown so that the table is dramatically smaller it will also reduce the tilt window dramatically. These things can be modeled in a good rendering program before any cuts are made and so there is no guessing about what the end result will be and no risk. Jerry probably doesn't use this sort of software since it used mostly by metalsmiths to show people rendered CAD models of their jewelry, (but it works just as well for "cutting" stones without actually cutting them). If you can post the size numbers of the stone and a good end view, (not side view), picture, (meaning a silhouette with the stone held with tweezers), I can show you what I mean with before and after renders. No, I don't want to steal Jerry's job or do re-cut work, this is just for fun.

Thanks for your very generous offer to show before and after mockups, but I don't have any pics of the stone like that, unfortunately, or else I'd love to take you up on it. I only have face-on pictures.

Jerry recommended at least trying for the compromise angles, so we'll see what happens! I might try to sell the setting separately.
 
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