Help with OEC from local jeweler

[eh613c]

Hi! I stopped by a local jeweler to browse their estate jewelry and saw a 2ct OEC. I checked it out and it's very lively in natural lighting. There's a flower pattern under the table and a small culet. Lots of sparkles. It's not certed but their gemologist estimates the color to be I and clarity SI1. It is in a yellow gold split shank setting so that may make it warmer? It's about 8.5mm with a table of 47.5% and 63% depth. The price is about $12k including taxes. I looked at comps at OWD and it looks like it is a good deal but OWD comps are certed.

What do you think? Good deal?

 

[arkieb1]

Hi! I stopped by a local jeweler to browse their estate jewelry and saw a 2ct OEC. I checked it out and it's very lively in natural lighting. There's a flower pattern under the table and a small culet. Lots of sparkles. It's not certed but their gemologist estimates the color to be I and clarity SI1. It is in a yellow gold split shank setting so that may make it warmer? It's about 8.5mm with a table of 47.5% and 63% depth. The price is about $12k including taxes. I looked at comps at OWD and it looks like it is a good deal but OWD comps are certed.

What do you think? Good deal?

Is it eyeclean? You need an independent appraiser to look at it for you. Generally their own in house people over estimate colour by one or two shades if you are really lucky and clarity by one grade if you are lucky. I also don't really follow how a 2 carat (unless it is more than 2 carats and that is only an estimate) with a table of 47.5% is 8.50mms. If the stone is as deep as you say with a tiny table it should in theory be smaller than that in mms unless of course the 2 weight is only an estimate in which case the stone is bigger than 2.00 carats.

It is probably cheaper than OWD, but difficult to say if you are getting a good deal or not because without a completely independent appraisal you don't know exactly what you are buying.

 

[missy]

I agree with arkieb. I recommend getting it certed before buying. Ask the jeweler if he/she is willing to send it to GIA and if it meets the I SI1 estimate then you would purchase it (if you love it). This is the only way you know if you are getting what you think you are getting and if the price is fair.

 

[eh613c]

Thank you arkieb1 and missy. The issue of not knowing the exact stats makes me hesitant to purchase the stone. I asked about getting it certed but the jeweler is not willing to pay for it. Since it's a consigned piece, it's up to the owner to do so. I certainly don't want to pay for it and at the end not like it.

My budget is fairly small for the size and quality I want (8+mm, L and above (GIA standard) and SI1 (eye clean) and above). I louped the stone and there were a few feathers along the edges but other than that it's eye clean.

By the way, how does one figure out the weight based on table and depth percentages?

 

[arkieb1]

Thank you arkieb1 and missy. The issue of not knowing the exact stats makes me hesitant to purchase the stone. I asked about getting it certed but the jeweler is not willing to pay for it. Since it's a consigned piece, it's up to the owner to do so. I certainly don't want to pay for it and at the end not like it.

My budget is fairly small for the size and quality I want (8+mm, L and above (GIA standard) and SI1 (eye clean) and above). I louped the stone and there were a few feathers along the edges but other than that it's eye clean.

By the way, how does one figure out the weight based on table and depth percentages?

There is a way to calculate it that works with RBs but I am not sure with OECs, the specs of it are fine, it fits into Dave Atlas's top cut class;

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamonds

I am just using what I call my law of reasonableness for working out the mms of the stone. I owned a triple ex RB once and it was 8.49mms and it was 2.30 carats. OEC generally face up smaller in mms than RBs if they are nice and deep, big spready transitional cuts on the other hand face up bigger in mms but they are more shallow.

Here is a 2.10 carat AVR that 8.02mms by 7.92mms so in theory at 2.00 OEC that is well cut should be just under the 8.00mm mark.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9866/


You could have it wrong because it is in a setting and hasn't been measured properly. The people selling it to you can't calculate properly in which case I would suggest they will also grossly over estimate the colour and clarity of the stone as well, or alternatively they just have it wrong and you might get yourself a bargain if it is indeed 8.50mms because it is going to closer to a 2.30 carats in a RB and at a guess because it has a smaller table (if those percentages are correct) than a RB to get that weight in an OEC it would be closer to the 2.35 to 2.40 carat range, or more.

 

[missy]

eh613c, I wonder if you could get a trusted PS appraiser to go with you to examine the stone in the store to make a determination as to the stats etc. I feel it is more than likely that they might be slightly (or more) exaggerated so this would give you a more fair representation and worth a bit of money for piece of mind either way...or is there a return period so you can take the stone to the appraiser? Or do a rushed GIA cert on the OEC within the return period if there is one? Think about your options. I would not buy without a return period since you do not know the real cert of this OEC.

 

[GemFever]

I agree with everything arkieb and missy have said.

I'm guessing the yellow gold split shank setting is not original to the diamond, so maybe the owner of the ring knows the exact weight of the diamond? If it's 2cts and 8.5mm, I would guess the stone is quite shallow. How did they come up with the depth estimate if the stone is set? I guess in other words, I'm just repeating what arkieb said -- the millimeters and percentages don't add up. Either the depth is estimated incorrectly for the weight and spread, or the spread is measured incorrectly, or (this would be the best case scenario, but I wouldn't bet on it) the weight is greater than 2cts.

Can you get a pic of the stone? Sometimes it's quite easy to tell if the stone is shallow based on a good photo.

 

[eh613c]

eh613c, I wonder if you could get a trusted PS appraiser to go with you to examine the stone in the store to make a determination as to the stats etc. I feel it is more than likely that they might be slightly (or more) exaggerated so this would give you a more fair representation and worth a bit of money for piece of mind either way...or is there a return period so you can take the stone to the appraiser? Or do a rushed GIA cert on the OEC within the return period if there is one? Think about your options. I would not buy without a return period since you do not know the real cert of this OEC.

I was wondering about their return policy too. I will call them today and ask them about it. If they have one, I can take it to Patrick Davis for an appraisal.

 

[eh613c]

I agree with everything arkieb and missy have said.

I'm guessing the yellow gold split shank setting is not original to the diamond, so maybe the owner of the ring knows the exact weight of the diamond? If it's 2cts and 8.5mm, I would guess the stone is quite shallow. How did they come up with the depth estimate if the stone is set? I guess in other words, I'm just repeating what arkieb said -- the millimeters and percentages don't add up. Either the depth is estimated incorrectly for the weight and spread, or the spread is measured incorrectly, or (this would be the best case scenario, but I wouldn't bet on it) the weight is greater than 2cts.

Can you get a pic of the stone? Sometimes it's quite easy to tell if the stone is shallow based on a good photo.

Hi GemFever! I was doing some research last night and you and arkieb are right. The numbers don't make sense. I'm wondering if the sales associate meant 8.05mm. But I will definitely go back and take some pictures. Too bad I don't have any calipers.

 

[arkieb1]

I agree with everything arkieb and missy have said.

I'm guessing the yellow gold split shank setting is not original to the diamond, so maybe the owner of the ring knows the exact weight of the diamond? If it's 2cts and 8.5mm, I would guess the stone is quite shallow. How did they come up with the depth estimate if the stone is set? I guess in other words, I'm just repeating what arkieb said -- the millimeters and percentages don't add up. Either the depth is estimated incorrectly for the weight and spread, or the spread is measured incorrectly, or (this would be the best case scenario, but I wouldn't bet on it) the weight is greater than 2cts.

Can you get a pic of the stone? Sometimes it's quite easy to tell if the stone is shallow based on a good photo.

Hi GemFever! I was doing some research last night and you and arkieb are right. The numbers don't make sense. I'm wondering if the sales associate meant 8.05mm. But I will definitely go back and take some pictures. Too bad I don't have any calipers.

One of the numbers is definitely wrong either the depth, the spread so the mms across the stone or the weight has to be wrong. Go back and ask them to write it down for you and if they write down the same thing, ask them if they could check it or recalculate it for you. See if you can take a photo of the stone, I agree with the others if it has a huge table we will see that in a photo, if you take a side on pic we can see if it is deep or not, big crown or small crown and so on.....

A good independent appraiser is the only way you are going to know for sure if it is a good buy or not. If the sellers can't get the specs of the diamond correct then assume the colour and the clarity are inaccurately described as well.

 

[eh613c]

I stopped by the jewelry store today to take some photos. The sales associate I've been in contact with gave me more accurate stats (see below). I tried taking pictures with my cell phone but with the overhead lights it made the stone look dark. Forgive my lack of photo skills.

 

[GemFever]

I wouldn't rely too much on measurements taken in setting. There is still a good chance they are off. From the photo, the stone looks pretty nice to me. But the color looks almost light brown... if I just saw those photos and nothing else, I'd think it's a pretty OEC but around M-N or maybe even O-P color range with brown body overtones.

What did you think of it today when you saw it again?

 

[eh613c]

Thanks for your input GemFever. I really like the pattern but I think it's too warm for me. It does look more brown in the photos but more yellow IRL. I do agree that it may be warmer than I. Top view, the stone looks white but you start to see some warmth at certain angles and obviously viewed from the sides. Wondering if the stone will look whiter in wg bezel?

 

[GemFever]

Thanks for your input GemFever. I really like the pattern but I think it's too warm for me. It does look more brown in the photos but more yellow IRL. I do agree that it may be warmer than I. Top view, the stone looks white but you start to see some warmth at certain angles and obviously viewed from the sides. Wondering if the stone will look whiter in wg bezel?

If you're already worried that it might be too warm, I would proceed with a lot of caution. I've wasted quite a bit of time and money trying to fall in love with an otherwise amazing stone that was just too warm (GIA S-T, sold as a K per a "strict" appraiser). A white-metal bezel will help to soften the color a little, but bezels bring their own host of issues. I love bezels, but I think my OEC (sold now) turned a little darker in a bezel. The color was somewhat masked, but the stone took on a metallic tint (to my eyes, at least).

Maybe this was mentioned earlier and I missed it, but would the vendor be open to getting the stone GIA-certed? This might be tricky with a consigned piece because it would have to be removed from the setting and sent off for a significant amount of time.

 

[arkieb1]

It IS warmer than an I and it could be either really dirty or not eyeclean or both as well. I think you have to take their grading of it with a grain of salt. It does have a lovely high crown and it is not lacking in depth. For around 2 carats 8mms is a more accurate size.

 

[eh613c]

Thanks GemFever and arkieb for your feedback. I think I'm going to pass on this one. I've read so many PSers' story about their journey obtaining their perfect OECs and I'm hopeful that I'll find mine someday. The search continues...

 

[madelise]

EH, I know you're super local to me. If you ever need help looking at a local stone, or just want to chat about old diamonds, feel free to call or text me! I don't have MANY, but I've seen many and played with many to sort of know what I'm looking at Plus having the little IdealScope, though it isn't meant for fancy cuts, is nice to at least see leakage with.

I'm also planning on making the locals have another GTG, where other members' stuff make come in handy for you to learn a bit so you can be confident with your own purchasing journey.


You know how to reach me <3

 

[eh613c]

Thanks madelise! You're so sweet!! I think I'm going to pass on this one though. But I may take your offer soon.

 

[madelise]

Thanks madelise! You're so sweet!! I think I'm going to pass on this one though. But I may take your offer soon.

Can't wait to see what plans you have!