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Which profession is more important to society?

AmeliaG

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Haven|1348538280|3274058 said:
I've been thinking about this question for a while and I keep coming back to the same thing:
Parenting. Parenting is the most important "profession" to society. I know it's not technically a profession, but if every person had the benefit of being raised by a strong, positive, supportive parent or guardian, then I believe society would be in much better shape now.

Hmmm, I think parenting is very different than say a hundred years ago. Not saying the old times were better but children were more valued making parenting more valued.

My grandfather was a farmer as were most people in the early 1900s. He told me that farmers needed to have children to help out on the farm and they needed lots of children to take over the majority of the burden as they got older; physically not being able to do the farmwork any more. And before the advent of Social Security and nursing homes, the primary caretakers of old people were their children.

Children were needed and so good parenting was needed. Couples didn't decide to not have children; they needed them. And if you saw a couple with one or two children, it wasn't by choice but it was because they couldn't have any more.

My grandmother was one of six children and that was considered an average number - good but not especially large. My grandfather was one of eight - again a little larger than normal but not excessively so. Nowadays if a family has six or eight children, people think they're crazy. Whereas, before, if a couple decided they didn't want any children, everybody thought they were crazy.
 

PintoBean

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I value those professions focused on waste removal/management, e.g., sanitation workers, those that design sewage systems, etc. Boy do I take this for granted! It really is a luxury to be able to flush a toilet, have someone haul your garbage away a few times a week... Managing waste in turn manages the spread of disease - think Black Plague... :errrr: :shock:
 

madelise

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PintoBean|1348582852|3274277 said:
I value those professions focused on waste removal/management, e.g., sanitation workers, those that design sewage systems, etc. Boy do I take this for granted! It really is a luxury to be able to flush a toilet, have someone haul your garbage away a few times a week... Managing waste in turn manages the spread of disease - think Black Plague... :errrr: :shock:

Ditto! I actually wrote this last night, but didn't post since everyone seemed to be talking more about the ethics of pay vs. importance, or whatnot.

Over labor day weekend, our garbage man's schedule got messed up, and he skipped a week. I value him VERY much! We live in an apartment building with two sets of 8 apartments! It was disgusting :nono:
 

mrs jam

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Doctors. I can survive having a bad teacher, but unskilled doctor could kill me.
 

Maria D

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true, but a really nasty high school math teacher can emotionally scar you for life! bwahahahahaha
 

radiantquest

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It is all so frustrating.

I am very sad for elderly and handicapped people. What are they supposed to do?

I know that there isn't a clear cut answer and I know that I am not nearly smart enough to figure it all out, but I still like to think that we, as a collective society can figure out a way to make things better. There are outliers that make it, but that isn't the norm. Its tragic that if you aren't born into the right circumstances, you cant get ahead in life by doing the right things and trying hard. I thought that was what this country was about. If you work hard and really try than you will succeed. Every one knows that there are children that are born in situations and dealt a hand that is impossible to work with. If they aren't given the opportunities and information then they are destined to to stumble through life worrying and barely scraping by.

DH and I are regular people, we work for a living and pay our bills, and yet here we sit wondering what is going to happen. We worry how the next generation will make it. How will we survive in 30-40 years? We have it better than some and it is still scary.
 

4ever

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What if everyone was just paid the same? Or government tax was worked out so everyone made more or less the same after tax? If this ment everyone would do what they loved and/or were good at, what professions would we be short of?
 

AGBF

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4ever|1348639061|3274765 said:
What if everyone was just paid the same? Or government tax was worked out so everyone made more or less the same after tax? If this ment everyone would do what they loved and/or were good at, what professions would we be short of?

What if we turned this question on its head and, instead of looking at how much people were paid, looked at whether their basic needs were met?

What if the first thing we asked of government was to make sure that no one was left homeless, hungry, uneducated, or jobless? Kind of like the New Deal on speed. People could do what they wanted for work without threat of penury. Incentives could be offered for any jobs that had too few applicants for the needs of society at a given time.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

JulieN

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You are conflating separate things. What someone gets paid is not what they are worth.

http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-M.../0807014273/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348648737 A Jewish psychiatrist imprisoned in Nazi work camp writes about the ghastliness of it all, but still the desire to survive, not being able to outrun fate, and psychology after liberation. That is the first half of the book.

The second half of the book is about his psychological theory. C+P from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy.

The following list of tenets represents basic principles of logotherapy:
  • Life has meaning under all circumstances, even the most miserable ones.
  • Our main motivation for living is our will to find meaning in life.
  • We have freedom to find meaning in what we do, and what we experience, or at least in the stand we take when faced with a situation of unchangeable suffering.

According to Frankl, "We can discover this meaning in life in three different ways: (1) by creating a work or doing a deed; (2) by experiencing something or encountering someone; and (3) by the attitude we take toward unavoidable suffering" and that "everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances".
 

VRBeauty

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Like it or not, what people are paid is largely determined by supply and demand, not intrinsic worth or societal worth.
 

HollyS

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To answer the OP:

No, you aren't the only person who wonders why we, as a society, honor idiots rather than good people. Give accolades to actors when they come out of rehab, rather than give their therapists and doctors the thanks due. Watch, and by watching, make money for the trash that is the Kardashians and their ilk, rather than perhaps give a donation to our local PBS station. Flock to theaters, download the music, read the "literature" created by talent-less nitwits. Read the gossip rags rather than a good book. Salivate over the 'fashion' at the Emmys. It is where we have decided real worth can be found.

It is a natural progression of our (society's) obsession with all things "celebrity" that we barely acknowledge the real heroes of life: teachers, doctors, researchers, scientists, parents, first responders, and even school bus drivers.

After all, why shouldn't a Kardashian get five or six figures for merely showing up? They're bringing in the rest of the crowd who will pay through the nose to be in the same room with a "celebrity". That makes money. And it really is all about MAKING money. The real idol IS money. Suzy Schoolteacher cannot compete, so she doesn't hold our attention.

Prime example: Neil Armstrong got a small section of People magazine when he died. Naked Prince Harry got the cover. If THAT doesn't make you say "WTH??!!!", nothing will.
 

AGBF

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HollyS|1348671979|3274922 said:
Prime example: Neil Armstrong got a small section of People magazine when he died. Naked Prince Harry got the cover. If THAT doesn't make you say "WTH??!!!", nothing will.

But, Holly, to be fair, that was, "People". "The New York Times" or, to give the conservatives their due, "The Wall Street Journal" would not have led with a story on Prince Harry! (At least they would not have led with one about his partying in Las Vegas. I am sure there might have been instances when Prince Harry would have been deemed newsworthy to serious newspapers for some other reason.)

Deb/AGBF
:saint:
 

Tacori E-ring

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ohhh...this thread could get ugly. I feel like my profession is VERY important to society. It is not a high paying field which is a shame. My speciality is even LOWER paying than being a regular mental health therapist without special training. However, I did not choose to go into this field to get rich. I went into it eyes wide open and made the decision that money is not as important as passion. I hope teachers feel the same. What is the point complaining about something that has never changed and probably never will?
 

justginger

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I think that talking about these issues DOES change things. Our teachers in Western Australia now get paid (what I consider to be) VERY generously. :appl: Of course it is dependent on whether they're teaching public or private, but the last time I checked most teachers top out at $80-85k/year, and the government heavily subsidizes their tertiary education as well.

Society talks
The majority agrees something needs to actually change
People are willing to pay higher taxes in order to facilitate change (this is where I think most Americans fall off the bandwagon)
Money is redistributed to where the majority sees fit

Or at least that's how it should happen. :wink2:
 

HollyS

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AGBF|1348700234|3275150 said:
HollyS|1348671979|3274922 said:
Prime example: Neil Armstrong got a small section of People magazine when he died. Naked Prince Harry got the cover. If THAT doesn't make you say "WTH??!!!", nothing will.

But, Holly, to be fair, that was, "People". "The New York Times" or, to give the conservatives their due, "The Wall Street Journal" would not have led with a story on Prince Harry! (At least they would not have led with one about his partying in Las Vegas. I am sure there might have been instances when Prince Harry would have been deemed newsworthy to serious newspapers for some other reason.)

Deb/AGBF
:saint:


You're right, Deb; but People reaches more . . . people. Larger audience because we buy and read gossip mags instead of other publications, by and large. And that is my point. When society is given a choice, look what we choose.

Besides, People used to have bigger stories about ordinary people doing extraordinary things. But since that doesn't sell like another salacious celebrity crisis, why bother to seek out and publish such stories?

"Give 'em dirty laundry." (Don Henley)
 

Dancing Fire

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the diamond cutters.. :!: without the cutters this world wouldn't be so sparkly.
 

Begonia

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Motherhood...parenthood. :)
 

Haven

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Maria D|1348622730|3274671 said:
true, but a really nasty high school math teacher can emotionally scar you for life! bwahahahahaha
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Dancing Fire

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justginger|1348753932|3275453 said:
Society talks
The majority agrees something needs to actually change
People are willing to pay higher taxes in order to facilitate change (this is where I think most Americans fall off the bandwagon)
Money is redistributed to where the majority sees fit

Or at least that's how it should happen. :wink2:
yes,we need to create millions of jobs here in the U.S. so that people can get off welfare.
 

radiantquest

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I agree that the amount that someone gets paid doesn't equal their worth. My problem is that their worth should equal their pay.

I think a teacher that only makes $30K a year deserves as nice a vacation as a surgeon who makes $150Ka year, yet they usually cant afford it.

There has to be incentive for people to try harder. If every job had the same pay then some(not all) would chose the job that is the easiest. There are many people that are underpaid for what they do but they continue to do it because it is what they have a passion for. They say that whatever you would fill your time with should you have the means to not have to work 40+hrs a week is what you really want to do and you should incorporate that into your career.

I would learn to play the piano, take pottery lessons and foster all animals that needed it. News Flash, I cant turn that into a career. The mortgage company doesn't care if I am doing what I love so for the majority of us we are stuck working to live.

One of my ideas is to structure things so that each person has the freedom to choose whatever profession they want and have the education free of charge. Each profession has a pay scale. The top paying job obviously would get picked quite a bit, but here's the trade. Everyone who chooses the top paying job MUST also work at the lowest paid job. Everyone would have to work two jobs. Not equal amounts of time devoted, but must keep both. The further down the scale towards the middle the profession you chose, higher up on the scale the job which pays the least would be. -This allows growth for people to try harder and make more, it keeps someone working the jobs nobody really wants and it keeps all pay on a scale that will not allow super rich and ridiculously poor.

Thoughts?
 

Dancing Fire

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AGBF|1348524649|3273923 said:
soocool|1348515804|3273849 said:
People who buy services/products determine who will be wealthy and who will not. If people did not spend money on going to sport games, movies, or buying the latest fashions endorsed by models/actors/reality stars. etc then they would not be rich.

In the United States. Wealth is not divided the same way in all countries. In some countries the rich are not so rich and the poor are not so poor even though people still buy things and go places. That is because the government plays a different role and people of those countries often like their "socialist" Lives. My husband's family in Italy has often been shocked at our lack of health insurance; maternal health and family leave benefits; and retirement benefits/ old-age pensions. I have heard that Sweden and France are similar.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
i'd prefer capitalism over socialism. take a look at what's happenning in (Italy) Europe now. socialism had never worked in the past and will not work in the future. redistribution of wealth ( entitlement programs) w/o job creation will only prolong the poor to get back up on their own two feet.
 

justginger

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radiantquest|1348777246|3275657 said:
One of my ideas is to structure things so that each person has the freedom to choose whatever profession they want and have the education free of charge. Each profession has a pay scale. The top paying job obviously would get picked quite a bit, but here's the trade. Everyone who chooses the top paying job MUST also work at the lowest paid job. Everyone would have to work two jobs. Not equal amounts of time devoted, but must keep both. The further down the scale towards the middle the profession you chose, higher up on the scale the job which pays the least would be. -This allows growth for people to try harder and make more, it keeps someone working the jobs nobody really wants and it keeps all pay on a scale that will not allow super rich and ridiculously poor.

Thoughts?

Can't say I'd ever be on board for something as radical as this. Do you think it's reasonable to expect the country's most skilled neurosurgeon to scrub out of theatre and change into a fast food uniform? This structure doesn't account for the superior natural skills of some individual and wastes a lot of time forcing then to do menial tasks.
 

Dancing Fire

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AGBF|1348506527|3273744 said:
Saoirse2|1348502275|3273699 said:
To me, there isn't a most important...every occupation is dependant on another :praise:


Lest you think that this was just a personal slip, consider Mr. Romney’s acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention. What did he have to say about American workers? Actually, nothing: the words 'worker' or 'workers' never passed his lips. This was in strong contrast to President Obama’s convention speech a week later, which put a lot of emphasis on workers — especially, of course, but not only, workers who benefited from the auto bailout.


Deb/AGBF
:read:
yes,the President put so much emphasis on our workers that we are only at 8.3% unemployment plus $6 trillion in extra debt.i don't care which party is in power we need to create millions of jobs.

btw, with this horrible economy, and if Romney does not win in Nov. the Republican party should just close up shop.
 

ksinger

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Dancing Fire|1348785622|3275701 said:
AGBF|1348524649|3273923 said:
soocool|1348515804|3273849 said:
People who buy services/products determine who will be wealthy and who will not. If people did not spend money on going to sport games, movies, or buying the latest fashions endorsed by models/actors/reality stars. etc then they would not be rich.

In the United States. Wealth is not divided the same way in all countries. In some countries the rich are not so rich and the poor are not so poor even though people still buy things and go places. That is because the government plays a different role and people of those countries often like their "socialist" Lives. My husband's family in Italy has often been shocked at our lack of health insurance; maternal health and family leave benefits; and retirement benefits/ old-age pensions. I have heard that Sweden and France are similar.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
i'd prefer capitalism over socialism. take a look at what's happenning in (Italy) Europe now. socialism had never worked in the past and will not work in the future. redistribution of wealth ( entitlement programs) w/o job creation will only prolong the poor to get back up on their own two feet.

What you and others like you consistently close your eyes to, is the FACT that 1)government is in the business of wealth redistribution and has been since the pharoahs (see war and pyramid building as employment programs and public works respectively), 2)markets are HUMAN constructs - there are no "natural laws" governing them and are governed by human-made RULES, rules put in place to benefit those making the rules, which are those who can BUY the legislators to make the rules, and 3) government policy can - and HAS resulted in the redistribution of wealth UPWARD (see the huge disparity of wealth now in this country - caused by (among other things) - the forced driving of money out of savings and into the stock market via 30 years of 401ks, free trade with China hollowing out manufacturing in the US, and the failure to regulate finance enabling Wall Street to swell and replace a manufacturing economy with a financialized one).
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="ksinger|1348791224|

What you and others like you consistently close your eyes to, is the FACT that 1)government is in the business of wealth redistribution and has been since the pharoahs (see war and pyramid building as employment programs and public works respectively), 2)markets are HUMAN constructs - there are no "natural laws" governing them and are governed by human-made RULES, rules put in place to benefit those making the rules, which are those who can BUY the legislators to make the rules, and 3) government policy can - and HAS resulted in the redistribution of wealth UPWARD (see the huge disparity of wealth now in this country - caused by (among other things) - the forced driving of money out of savings and into the stock market via 30 years of 401ks, free trade with China hollowing out manufacturing in the US, and the failure to regulate finance enabling Wall Street to swell and replace a manufacturing economy with a financialized one).[/quote]



agree!!...the diamonds here are getting bigger each month (via upgrades) and i don't even have a tiny one on my finger... ;(
lets redistribute the diamonds among us PSers... :appl:
 

ieatbugs

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I have pondered this before about Science vs. Art in general. But they are both very valuable:

Drs save lives, but many artists make life worth living through happiness and inspiration.

To me, the questionable professions are often ones that just involving moving money around and generating wealth for businesses.
 

Dancing Fire

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soocool|1348515804|3273849 said:
As an aside, I am a firm believer in a flat tax where everyone pays the same amount for the same public services. I do not see why those who make more should pay more. It always amazes me when people claim how poor they are when they drive their leased status cars, live in mansions they cannot afford, take lavish vacations when they should be saving for their kids college educations and/ or their retirement. My father came to this country without anyone's help and established his own business, hired kids to help them pay for college. He gave a number of kids the funds so they could stay in college or trade school and never asked them for a penny back and yet once they became established in a career they never forgot about my father. One of these kids is my DH. Dad did well because he worked hard and because he always gave of himself he had the support of the community when he needed it. Dad never measures his wealth in dollars, but in the number of friends he has made and the lives he has touched.

IMO, the rich should pay more income taxes but up to what %??... :read: since the wealthy Americans are already paying (the upper 50% of the wage earners) 97% of all tax collections.we can go out and rob 1000 Bill Gates and it still won't solve our country's debt.
 
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