DS "hates" preschool - what to do?

[LALove]

I could really use some advice on anything I can do to help DS like going to preschool again.

DS is 3 1/2 and has been going to a wonderful preschool for over 9 months now (before this he was watched by a nanny at my family office so I was around all day). The first day he bawled his eyes out at drop off and screamed for me not to leave him. It was obviously heartbreaking for me, as his mom. His main teacher is fabulous though and swooped in to pick him up and got him interested in an activity. She called to report the tears only lasted 10 minutes after I left. Each day after the first day, drop off was easier and smoother. About a month into it, drop off became a breeze- hugs, kisses and he'd happily wave goodbye.

Now, seemingly out of the blue, he's regressed into being clingy and teary at drop off, saying he "hates playschool" and doesn't want to go etc. Also, when we pick him up at 5pm we find him sitting in a little chair by the door patiently waiting for us (we're told he sits in the chair at around 4pm which means he chooses to sit and wait for about an hour instead of playing). It's so sad because we used to have to drag him out of there.

The change in attitude happened about 2 months ago after an incident where his favorite teacher accidentally scared him. He was washing his hands and getting water everywhere (as toddlers do) and someone was vacuuming right by him. His teacher freaked out a little because she didn't want DS to get the outlet wet and get hurt so she rushed over to him and grabbed him from behind to get him out of the "danger" area. Well, I guess this really freaked him out - probably because he thought he was in trouble - and he cried and was basically inconsolable until we came to get him an hour later. She must have apologized to him 50 times for frightening him and DH and I talked to him about what happened over and over and it seemed handled. There was one other incident around this time as well. DS came home and told me that the "boys" are mean to him. I asked which boys and it was only one boy who was hitting DS on the head with wooden blocks. I spoke with the teacher that day over the phone and I guess this particular little boy was very aggressive to all the kids- hitting, biting etc. The school handled the problem by moving him up one level to a class where the kids are his size (he is big for his age) and the bullying stopped. So that's not a problem anymore.

Other than those two things, I have no idea why DS "hates" preschool and doesn't want to go anymore. DH and I have asked him 100 different ways if anything unpleasant happened, if anyone is mean to him etc and DS says no- he just wants to stay home with us. His teacher will email me pics of DS happily playing during the day and when I call to check on him, she'll tell me what he's doing and how his mood is which is usually cheerful. So he seems to have fun when he's there- just not at drop off and I guess not during the later part of the afternoon. His teacher does leave at 3:30pm and they bring in "closers" which are just high school type girls that basically clean up and make sure the kids are safe but the structure and scheduled activities stop when the teacher leaves.

We've tried to make it easier by:
Talking to him about it and reassuring him that we will always pick him up
Sending him in with a family photo
Making drop off very positive and quick - hugs, love you, see you after school, bye (if I linger he gets more worked up)
Spending TONS of quality time with him in the AM and after school

My parents think he'll just "grow out of it" but that just doesn't sit right with me. It's been 8+ weeks with 0 improvement. It seems that I haven't found the real reason he no longer likes going OR this is really just a phase, in which case, there has to be something I can do to make it easier on him. I can't just "wait it out".

Any advice would be very appreciated.

 

[Kunzite]

I don't have any answers because my LO is much younger, but I know that for him his mood is much different when we pick him up at 4 than when we pick him up at 5. It seems that last hour just pushes him into a funk because it makes the day too long. He wouldn't like the constantly changing closers either because it takes him a day or two to warm up to a new person. Not that those are solutions, but maybe the reasons why the end of the day is hard but he enjoys his time otherwise.

Good luck!

 

[LALove]

Thanks Kunzite! I was thinking the same thing about how long he's there. As I work for my parents and therefore have a pretty flexible schedule, I was considering dropping him off a bit earlier (he gets up at 5am anyways) so I can pick him up at 4. That may explain why he's so reluctant at drop off too- because he knows he's in for a long day.

 

[qtiekiki]

Is it possible that you can pick him up an hour early? Maybe the "closers" aren't giving him the attention or stimulation that he needs?

The morning drop-offs sound normal and could be a phase, as my 4 years old daughter went through a phase when she was crying at drop-off everyday. When we asked her teachers, they say she is fine after we leave, and there had been no changes or incidents at school.

I have no real advice, just HUGS because it was very tough when my daughter was going through the crying at drop-off phase.

 

[LALove]

Is it possible that you can pick him up an hour early? Maybe the "closers" aren't giving him the attention or stimulation that he needs?

The morning drop-offs sound normal and could be a phase, as my 4 years old daughter went through a phase when she was crying at drop-off everyday. When we asked her teachers, they say she is fine after we leave, and there had been no changes or incidents at school.

I have no real advice, just HUGS because it was very tough when my daughter was going through the crying at drop-off phase.

I'm really starting to think that's the problem, or at least a part of it. DH also told me that DS's favorite little buddy leaves around 4pm so that could also be why DS gets bummed. This friend is the only one he'll talk about by name at home. When I ask him the names of the other kids, he says, "Boys. Girls."

It's reassuring to know that your DD came through the "crying phase" and it didn't last forever. And thank you for the hugs! DH just shrugs it off like it's no big thing but I swear it rips my heart out to see him with that "how could you abandon me???" look.

 

[mia1181]

I don't have any answers because my LO is much younger, but I know that for him his mood is much different when we pick him up at 4 than when we pick him up at 5. It seems that last hour just pushes him into a funk because it makes the day too long. He wouldn't like the constantly changing closers either because it takes him a day or two to warm up to a new person. Not that those are solutions, but maybe the reasons why the end of the day is hard but he enjoys his time otherwise.

Good luck!

I agree with this suggestion. You could try picking him up a little earlier and seeing if that helps. I know that may be tough to do with work. Also, it could have sometching to do with the closers. Maybe it is something about the non-structured environment that occurs when the high schoolers get there. I think it is very likely that they aren't as good at managing all of the children's behavior. Maybe when they get the there the other children are more unruly so he would rather not play with them. A few other thoughts:

1. Do you trust the teachers at the daycare? As a parent you do have to look at the possibility that maybe they are a little different when you are not there. I'm not just talking about full on abuse, one possibility in the incident that you described could have been that the teacher really was frightened and overreacted a little. Maybe she screamed at him? I'm just bringing this up as something to consider. When it comes to leaving your children with someone you just have to trust your instincts. If you feel good about the teachers it Is likely fine. If you have some reservations, I would consider switching. I will tell you that when I used to do behavior therapy in day cares, I saw some appalling behavior by teachers. Not abuse, but let's just say the teachers weren't always handling behavior in the nicest or most effective way. It all depends on the teacher. It sounds like you do trust and like his teachers but I just wanted to mention this.

2. Outside of preschool would you describe your son as shy, sensitive, reserved, and slow to warm? If that is the case, I think some of this just may be a part of his personality. When I was a nanny, a little girl I cared for had a tough time in preschool too. She had a great preschool and even though I was her full time nanny we put her in preschool early because we noticed she had difficulty in social situations. Her preschool ended up making all the difference but it was a constant struggle. She didn't like being dropped of and was overly eager to get picked up just like your son. We tried everything and did everything "right" just like you but every now and then she did have some issues. We just decided that after ruling out any abuse or anything like that she just needed to learn to deal with it and we were not going to reinforce her behavior by taking her out. We also knew she would probably do worse if we switched preschools because then she would really be uncomfortable with a new environment. It was really hard for me because she knew I was home while she was in school and would ask why she couldn't just stay with me. "Because little girls go to school" is what I would always say.

Okay so some pointers that helped us with her:
1. You say you spend lots of quality fun time before school. I would suggest keeping cool in the morning before school and letting school be more fun. For some kids going from home to school is going from a preferred activity to a non-preferred. The more fun you have in the morning, the less your son is going to want to leave it behind. So nothing too fun or exciting in the morning but save all the fun and excitement for after school.

2. After school try to make sure it does not feel like you are rescuing him. So when you pick him up stay cool, don't be too exciting running up and hugging him. Don't give him the indication that it was so hard to be apart from him and you missed him so much. Obviously you can be affectionate and caring but you want to be careful that you are not giving him the impression that school is a place where you are separated from your family and everything is sad until you are finally reunited. Instead school is this exciting place that he gets to go to, and he is so lucky to get to go there! Don't be in hurry to leave when you pick him up.

3. Let him talk to you honestly about his feelings (it sounds like you may already be doing this). So if he says he hates school some parents will say "no you don't, you love it." this gives children the sense that they are not really allowed to talk about their negative feelings. So when he tells you he hates it ask him why, ask him what he would like to change at school, or what he wishes school were like. Be an active listener and validate his feelings but then focus on something positive about school ("yeah but remember your favorite toy/friend is there so that's pretty cool). In these discussions you also have to remind him that little boys go to school so he has to make the best out of.

4. If there are special things he has or gets at school, try and save them for school. Make sure he has things to look forward to. Don't rush out and buy or start doing at home things that he likes at school.

5. Is there something the school could do for him? What about in that last hour he help the teacher clean up instead of sitting in the chair? What if they don't let him sit in the chair and instead he has to go and pick a toy and play or find a friend. Maybe he does need more structure in that last hour?

6. You can start him on a reward chart for good behavior. He sounds like a sweet, compliant boy so maybe the behaviors you need to reinforce are prosocial behaviors. Like he can earn a star on a chart for every day that he goes to school without complaint, or for every day he stays busy until you pick him up, or for saying hello to the teacher without hiding behind you, or goodbye without being prompted or whatever small skills you'd like to work on. After x amount of stickers he would earn a prize.

I'll let you know if I think of anything else but my little girl when I was a nanny became much much more social and confident as she got older. I'm sure some of that had to do with all the work we put into working on these things but it also seemed that she kind of grew out of it. Anyway I hope some of this helps!

 

[LALove]

I don't have any answers because my LO is much younger, but I know that for him his mood is much different when we pick him up at 4 than when we pick him up at 5. It seems that last hour just pushes him into a funk because it makes the day too long. He wouldn't like the constantly changing closers either because it takes him a day or two to warm up to a new person. Not that those are solutions, but maybe the reasons why the end of the day is hard but he enjoys his time otherwise.

Good luck!

I agree with this suggestion. You could try picking him up a little earlier and seeing if that helps. I know that may be tough to do with work. Also, it could have sometching to do with the closers. Maybe it is something about the non-structured environment that occurs when the high schoolers get there. I think it is very likely that they aren't as good at managing all of the children's behavior. Maybe when they get the there the other children are more unruly so he would rather not play with them. A few other thoughts:
I'm going to pick him up at 4pm today and next week as well. It may take a few days to see if this is helpful since the weekend is coming. But I'll post any changes/improvements I notice. And re the younger closers who come in- the place is a near mad house when we get there at 5pm. The kids are physically safe BUT there is a lot of shouting and running around which I don't think DS is comfortable with.

1. Do you trust the teachers at the daycare? As a parent you do have to look at the possibility that maybe they are a little different when you are not there. I'm not just talking about full on abuse, one possibility in the incident that you described could have been that the teacher really was frightened and overreacted a little. Maybe she screamed at him? I'm just bringing this up as something to consider. When it comes to leaving your children with someone you just have to trust your instincts. If you feel good about the teachers it Is likely fine. If you have some reservations, I would consider switching. I will tell you that when I used to do behavior therapy in day cares, I saw some appalling behavior by teachers. Not abuse, but let's just say the teachers weren't always handling behavior in the nicest or most effective way. It all depends on the teacher. It sounds like you do trust and like his teachers but I just wanted to mention this.
One good thing about this school is all the classrooms have huge windows so you can see into them and video cameras in each room which are monitored in the main office and parents are encouraged to pop in at any time to observe unannounced. The owner and other admin staff also make regular rounds into the classrooms. And, there are always at least 2 adults in each room so kids are never left alone with just one grown up. However, I'm maybe overly cautious/suspicious when it comes to looking for signs of abuse/neglect- my DH says I'm paranoid but I've experienced not so nice behavior from adults (as a child) and I know the effects it can have on a kid. And I don't think it has to be sexual/physical abuse to have a detrimental effect on a kid- just even being too harsh or slightly derogatory or even annoyed can have a negative impact- especially from someone like a teacher. So, I do go with my gut feeling when it comes to who I allow DS to be around and especially alone with. It wouldn't shock me if his teacher overreacted with the water thing but I don't think it would have been out of malicious intent- I really do like her and my son really likes her though it did take him a couple of weeks to really warm up to her again. The other teacher gives me the warm and fuzzies too. The closers not so much. A lot of them have that stereotypical high school girl "I'm too cool for this" attitude, KWIM? I actually had to report one a few months ago (she's no longer in DS's class) because a little boy (2 1/2 and the sweetest face you've ever seen) came out of the potty with his pants down. This closer looked at him and said- in an ANNOYED tone- "-kid's name- did you poop in your underwear again?!" How humiliating! I gave her a look of death and she immediately changed her tone and helped clean him up. So it does make me a little paranoid that those types of comments could be happening. But DS is one to tattle- he tells on me to my DH all the time- "Mommy told me she was not happy to me because I colored on her purse!" lol And I've talked to him many times about what is OK and not OK for adults or anyone to do and questioned him and there are zero signs of abuse/neglect, that I can see. The more I think about this though, I don't have super positive feelings about him being there after the real teachers have gone home... even just because the closers seem to generally have a bored and indifferent attitude towards the kids.

2. Outside of preschool would you describe your son as shy, sensitive, reserved, and slow to warm? If that is the case, I think some of this just may be a part of his personality. When I was a nanny, a little girl I cared for had a tough time in preschool too. She had a great preschool and even though I was her full time nanny we put her in preschool early because we noticed she had difficulty in social situations. Her preschool ended up making all the difference but it was a constant struggle. She didn't like being dropped of and was overly eager to get picked up just like your son. We tried everything and did everything "right" just like you but every now and then she did have some issues. We just decided that after ruling out any abuse or anything like that she just needed to learn to deal with it and we were not going to reinforce her behavior by taking her out. We also knew she would probably do worse if we switched preschools because then she would really be uncomfortable with a new environment. It was really hard for me because she knew I was home while she was in school and would ask why she couldn't just stay with me. "Because little girls go to school" is what I would always say.
DS is definitely on the shy side. He's generally extroverted but when put in a new situation/new people/new place he's very slow to warm. This is the entire reason we started him in preschool. I had a nanny who would watch him at my office but DH and I noticed that DS was becoming almost scared of other children at about 2 1/2 so we decided we'd better handle that now. The school he's in is the best school in so many ways in my area so changing him really isn't something I want to do and I think that would be even harder on him as he does take awhile to feel OK in new situations. And we do regularly explain to him that mommy and daddy have jobs so he can have XYZ and his job is to go to school and learn things.

Okay so some pointers that helped us with her:
1. You say you spend lots of quality fun time before school. I would suggest keeping cool in the morning before school and letting school be more fun. For some kids going from home to school is going from a preferred activity to a non-preferred. The more fun you have in the morning, the less your son is going to want to leave it behind. So nothing too fun or exciting in the morning but save all the fun and excitement for after school.
Oh my gosh! This is an EXCELLENT POINT!!! Right now our house is being renovated so we're living with my parents. Every morning he has 4 grown ups undivided attention - playing all sorts of fun games. I probably wouldn't want to leave either. Hmmm.. I'll have to figure out a way to still have quality time in the morning but not make it so fun that it sucks to leave.

2. After school try to make sure it does not feel like you are rescuing him. So when you pick him up stay cool, don't be too exciting running up and hugging him. Don't give him the indication that it was so hard to be apart from him and you missed him so much. Obviously you can be affectionate and caring but you want to be careful that you are not giving him the impression that school is a place where you are separated from your family and everything is sad until you are finally reunited. Instead school is this exciting place that he gets to go to, and he is so lucky to get to go there! Don't be in hurry to leave when you pick him up.
Very good point too! I almost told him how much I missed him yesterday when I picked him up but stopped myself because I had the same thought. I'll make a conscious effort on this point.

3. Let him talk to you honestly about his feelings (it sounds like you may already be doing this). So if he says he hates school some parents will say "no you don't, you love it." this gives children the sense that they are not really allowed to talk about their negative feelings. So when he tells you he hates it ask him why, ask him what he would like to change at school, or what he wishes school were like. Be an active listener and validate his feelings but then focus on something positive about school ("yeah but remember your favorite toy/friend is there so that's pretty cool). In these discussions you also have to remind him that little boys go to school so he has to make the best out of.
We are very open with him already and let him have his own feelings - whatever they may be. When he says he hates it, we just acknowledge his feelings but also bring up positives like, "Remember you went on the bounce house yesterday and had so much fun with Will?" I have asked "why" he hates school (his answer is "because") but those are good ways to rephrase the question. I'll try that.

4. If there are special things he has or gets at school, try and save them for school. Make sure he has things to look forward to. Don't rush out and buy or start doing at home things that he likes at school.
Another good point! I almost went out and bought the Dora the Explorer computer game they have there because he loves it but I'll let that be a special school thing.

5. Is there something the school could do for him? What about in that last hour he help the teacher clean up instead of sitting in the chair? What if they don't let him sit in the chair and instead he has to go and pick a toy and play or find a friend. Maybe he does need more structure in that last hour?
I think I'll just rearrange my work schedule and his school schedule to eliminate the last hour.

6. You can start him on a reward chart for good behavior. He sounds like a sweet, compliant boy so maybe the behaviors you need to reinforce are prosocial behaviors. Like he can earn a star on a chart for every day that he goes to school without complaint, or for every day he stays busy until you pick him up, or for saying hello to the teacher without hiding behind you, or goodbye without being prompted or whatever small skills you'd like to work on. After x amount of stickers he would earn a prize.
We have a reward chart but I didn't think of adding smiley faces for good school behavior. I'll start that.

I'll let you know if I think of anything else but my little girl when I was a nanny became much much more social and confident as she got older. I'm sure some of that had to do with all the work we put into working on these things but it also seemed that she kind of grew out of it. Anyway I hope some of this helps!

Wow- thank you SO much for taking the time to write this detailed and very helpful response! This sounds corny but it actually warms my heart that people I don't even know would use their valuable time to try and help out a stranger.

 

[mia1181]

Haha I am stuck on bedrest so I have lots of time to give my suggestions! I'm also a huge behavior nerd and I love trying to problem solve kid situations. But yes PS is the best!

It really sounds like you have a good plan! I just wanted to add about not making the mornings so fun that you can also just give him down time for a little while before school. So fun in the morning, then mildly boring downtime, then school. Maybe that will work. I don't want to tell you to be a less involved or loving parent but just keep in mind whether you would be motivated to leave if there was always a party going on at home. I think you know what I mean but in case anyone else reads this and thinks I'm telling you to neglect your kiddo!

Also, about not telling him you miss him, I don't want anyone to think I'm telling you to be cold. Just like it's no big deal. So you could say "I missed you today but you know, I got to work on this exciting project at work! I'm so glad I got to do it!". So again you are validating how he may be feeling but modeling a good way to look at it. Or you could say "I missed you today but you know, I'm so glad you got to play with your friend all day!"

 

[LALove]

Well it's so appreciated!!! I feel a lot better like there's actually something I can DO.

LOL I don't think anyone could misconstrue that you're suggesting I ignore DS in the mornings! LOL But I do get it. It's like every morning we have a huge party and he wants to keep playing. So, we'll just take it down a notch is all.

Also, I think it will help him to get to school earlier. Right now he goes between 8-830am and most of the kids are already there. When he walks in, most of the kids shout, "Hi Jude!!!!!!!" and run up to him, which kind of embarrasses him because he's a bit shy. He doesn't like to be the center of attention- at school anyways. A month ago he asked for a haircut like his uncle which is a sort of conservative faux hawk (a la David Beckham). He loved it at the hairdresser. But once we got to school and all the staff started telling him how cute he was, he kind of freaked out and asked me to "push" his hair down. So, I think that may be a part of the drop off problem- that he's one of the last to arrive so he gets a lot of attention from so many kids all at once.

Re telling him I miss him- I totally got what you meant and didn't think you were telling me to not be affectionate. But what I almost did was squeeze him and say, "Oh I missed you SOOOOOOOO MUCH!!" which could totally give him the impression that school seperates us which means school is bad. Instead I just say squeeze him and say, "Hi buddy!! Did you have so much fun today?"

I'll let you know how all this works out and thanks again!

 

[qtiekiki]

Just checking to see how your little boy is doing.

 

[LALove]

Just checking to see how your little boy is doing.

Hi Thanks for checking in on me - I was just going to give an update.

Things are not 100% perfect or back to the way they used to be (happy to arrive there and no problems with us leaving) but they're MUCH better.

So far we've been able to get DS to preschool earlier - around 8am - sometimes I send him with breakfast just to make sure he's not the last to arrive. We've also chilled out crazy morning parties. This has helped him be less sad at drop off and he hasn't cried in the past few days but he's still not excited to go (like he used to be). We haven't been able to work out picking him up earlier just yet because we've been swamped at work but we plan to figure that out soon too.

We've also been giving him happy faces for his rewards chart when he goes without drama (though we don't give sad faces for drama) and this has helped a bit.

Here's the exciting part-- yesterday when I went to pick up DS he was in the next class up because the teachers were having a meeting so combined the kids into a couple of rooms. DS was having a BLAST when I walked in- playing trains with a few boys (as opposed to sitting in a chair by the door waiting for me). He was so happy and told me all about his day on the way home and even said, "I LOVE play-school!" Well, I thought to myself what changed? He was with older kids and in a new room and that's about it (same staff). Today I really took a look around DH's classroom and noticed a lot of new kids and didn't see a lot of the kids that used to be in his room. I asked the teacher where all the kids had gone and she said transitions had been happening the last month or so -- a lot of younger kids from the "twaddler" room had moved up into DS's class and a lot of DS's toddler friends had "graduated" up to the next level. Well, no wonder! Most of DS's friends had left and he was in a room with a lot of kids 6 months younger than him. And there is a BIG difference between almost 3 and 3 1/2 - at least from what I see at his school. In DS's current class they work a LOT on manners and the 2+ year olds coming in are really hyped up and in your face (not in a mean way) and haven't learned about personal space, manners etc (from school anyways) and it was too much for DS to handle, especially because his demeanor is more reserved. DS just happened to be out sick (cold then sinus infection then chicken pox all in a row) while transitions were being done so he was overlooked. I spoke with the owner and we agreed it was time for DS to move up to the next level with his old peers. So, he's starting half days in the new class room today. He'll do that for 1 week to get used to it and then he'll be there permanently- until the next transition. I'm excited to see if this fixes the problem- I really think it will.

Will keep you updated!

 

[qtiekiki]

Oh that's great. He was missing all his friends. I bet he will be happy going again soon.

 

[LALove]

Update:

DS has been attending his "big boy" class for just about 2 weeks now. The difference in him is AMAZING! First of all, he doesn't protest going to preschool anymore! He does insist on starting in his old room which I assume is because he's very comfortable with his old teacher but she takes him to his new room within 5 minutes and he's totally ok with it. He does do a tiny bit of whining when we leave saying things like "please don't go" but he does it with a half smile so I'm sure it's mostly just a game. Also, his school is pretty structured and it's not all about him as opposed to when he's at home where we're pretty relaxed schedule-wise and it is ALL about him. I'm sure, if I were him, I'd rather stay home too.

Another great change in his behavior is he's always happily engrossed in some activity when we get there at pick up and we have to drag him out! We still haven't been able to pick him up earlier yet but I think once our house is renovated and we move well be able to get him to school earlier and us to work earlier so can leave earlier. (We're living with my parents while our house is being renovated and my dad and DS are best buds so it's hard to get him out in the AM when he wants to play for just "five more minutes".)

The other big improvement we've seen at home. DS's manners are so improved since switching to a room with kids his age. He's back to being the sweet loving guy he is instead of the tantrum throwing whiny guy he has been for the last few weeks. I think it's because he's happier in school and also the kids in his new class are better able to express themselves, their needs etc. and so are calmer (due to being older) whereas in the younger room there is a lot of shouting and general wildness. And DS is definitely at the copy cat age so its better for us all that he's mimicking the older kiddos (we already did the terrible twos and I don't really want a repeat ).

So everything is good! Thank you all for your advice and care!

 

[qtiekiki]

Thanks for the update. My second started preschool two weeks ago, and we were expecting him to have a few rough weeks of adjusting. But to our surprise, everything had been smooth. It could be that his big sister is also in the same room, but he has always been little clingy than his sister.

 

[LALove]

Thanks for the update. My second started preschool two weeks ago, and we were expecting him to have a few rough weeks of adjusting. But to our surprise, everything had been smooth. It could be that his big sister is also in the same room, but he has always been little clingy than his sister.

That's AWESOME!!! That's really cool that he gets to be in the same room as his sister- that seems like it would make it a lot easier on him.