Love the setting but, oh, the diamond...

[lil_sparkle]

Hi there,

I'm tossing up between two engagement ring settings at two different stores, who have access to two different diamonds (and both stores will only set with their diamonds). I love one of the two more than the other, but the setting that I love has the following diamond specs:

Shape: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.21 - 7.24 X 4.63
Carat Weight: 1.51 carats
Colour Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Table: 56% Depth: 64.1% Girdle: Slightly Thick - Thick
Crown - 36.5 degrees Pavillion: 41%

The store with the better setting only has diamonds that are smaller (1.2/ 1.3 cts) or a higher clarity (which I cant afford) to choose from.

My other option is to choose my second favourite setting, with a diamond with a triple excellent score, and a larger diamond at that at 1.67cts.

So, the question is, should I go for the setting that I love more knowing that the diamond isn't as good? Or the better diamond and a plainer setting...

Thoughts? Wish I didn't have a budget to work to, but don't we all!!!!

 

[slg47]

you can't get this store to call in any other diamonds?

 

[lil_sparkle]

I can do - they had two in our price range, with similar depth specs.

Their diamonds are BHP Canada Mark diamonds, and they keep saying that we won't be able to tell the difference between an excellent cut stone and this stone with the naked eye.

But in reading so much on Price Scope, the consensus seems to be that diamonds of this depth are a bit of a no-go zone.

Thoughts on the depth? I've read that with the depth/ table ratio, it's probably going to look smaller than a 1.51 ct anyway, so is it better in your (collective) opinions to ask to see smaller diamonds with a better cut?

 

[gunsuka]

Check the measurements of the smaller stones. With the measurements & depth of the 1.5 you posted (7.21 - 7.24), odds are good that the smaller stones are very close in width.

With 64% depth you are paying for diamond you can't see.

If the smaller stones are close as close in face up size as I suspect they are, then get the setting you want and don't worry about it as you will have the same look.

Of course, if you want bragging rights to your friends you have a 1.5ct diamond then that is a different issue

 

[Gypsy]

That's an awful diamond. Seriously.

It's the one that says "very deep" in this chart:




RUN don't walk, away from anyone trying to convince you that this is anything BUT a bad diamond.

 

[Christina...]

You do NOT want this diamond. Like the others have mentioned, it's much too deep! Not only are you paying for diamond that you can't see, the diamond itself is going to look even smaller because, as gypsy has posted for you, the light performance isn't going to be good, causing leakage and resulting in a stone with dark areas. Our eyes will perceive this as smaller. You could get a much nicer cut stone with a smaller weight that will face up just as large and look bigger, for less money.

Are you uncomfortable buying from one of the PS vendors. I feel confident that we could find you a much nicer stone and much larger looking stone online, if you were comfortable with posting your budget. If you posted a picture of the setting, I bet we could either find you the same one or one very similar. Do you know if the setting is designer, such as beverlyk, martin flyer, vatche, veraggio, tacori, etc? Online vendors sell many of these same setting.

My advice, don't buy this stone just because you love the setting, their are literally thousands and thousands of setting options out there to choose from.

Btw, is this stone have a GIA certificate?

 

[Christina...]

Check the measurements of the smaller stones. With the measurements & depth of the 1.5 you posted (7.21 - 7.24), odds are good that the smaller stones are very close in width.

With 64% depth you are paying for diamond you can't see.

If the smaller stones are close as close in face up size as I suspect they are, then get the setting you want and don't worry about it as you will have the same look.

Of course, if you want bragging rights to your friends you have a 1.5ct diamond then that is a different issue

I think this is silly advice. Why not choose a well cut 1.3-1.4 that faces up the same size as the 1.5 and put it in the setting she loves and still have the same look. Not only is the weight hidden in this stone it also affects the light performance and dollar amount of the diamond. It sounds as though your suggesting that she pay the 1.5 premium for an inferior stone, simply because she prefer a setting that quite possibly she could find at any number of vendors.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's my advise. Be VERY firm that you want a diamond that is either an AGS0 in light performance OR a GIA Ex/Ex that fits the following parameters:

Here are some cheat sheet specifications for round brilliant specs/numbers ( PRINT THIS OUT AND TAKE THIS WITH YOU WHEN SHOPPING IN PERSON):

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).


ETA; Above copied from Lorelei and John Pollard.


THEN, also buy a basic Idealscope: http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y and learn how to use it.

Don't let them bully you or condescend to you that they know best. Stick to your guns and you'll get a lovely stone.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ditto to Gypsy's post. If you are paying regular retail prices, then you absolutely should be getting a fine quality diamond. Good for you for checking here before buying! That setting is beautiful...I see why you want to try to get the diamond from them!

Please come back and show us pictures of your ring when finished! I'd love to see it!

 

[yssie]

Here's my advise. Be VERY firm that you want a diamond that is either an AGS0 in light performance OR a GIA Ex/Ex that fits the following parameters:

Here are some cheat sheet specifications for round brilliant specs/numbers ( PRINT THIS OUT AND TAKE THIS WITH YOU WHEN SHOPPING IN PERSON):

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
58-63%
table - 54- 57%
52-61%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
33-36deg
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
40.6-41.2deg
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
Thin-slthk
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!
Don't worry about figuring out cut offs on the fly, there is already a tool for that - get the numbers and plug 'em into HCA (get it up on your phone if you have to) and toss it if it scores over 3 (yes, I said 3, not 2). If it scores under 3 then have them it in and see what your eyes think.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca/

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.
Most definitely, don't shackle yourself to one combination or another - there are many flavours of well-cut stones


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

THEN, also buy a basic Idealscope: http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y and learn how to use it.

Don't let them bully you
YUP YUP YUP

*My edits

Also to consider - age of report.

That is a gorgeous setting

 

[Christina...]

your ring is going to be gorgeous!! I love your setting and totally understand why you would want this particular one! Another thing you could do if you have a smart phone is run the numbers from the reports into the HCA here on PS. If your not familiar with it, you can find it under the tools tab at the top of the page. This is an elimination tool used to help weed out poor performers. You will need to enter the depth, table, crown and pavillion angles, and will want to only consider stones that score under 2. There are going to be exceptions to this rule, but in general, this will be a good predictor of the stones light performance.

Also if you choose and AGS0 stone, then it has already been evaluated for light performance and you can ignore the HCA all together. I can't wait to see your ring. Don't be nervous, if you follow DS and Gypsys advice you will buy an amazing diamond and know that you are wearing a quality diamond that exceeds about 95% of all other diamonds! wow right?!!

EDIT: Yssie and I posted at the same time, and under 3 is good advice if you think that you can trust your eyes, but be sure to look at the stone in many many different lighting environments, because jewelry store lighting can often make even the worst cut diamond look sparkly! Also make sure that you have a good return policy so that if you get the stone home and decide its not the one, then you aren't stuck with it.

 

[webdiva]

Do they sell the setting on it's own? Sans diamond? Sounds like the better bet... buy the stone first, then ask them to set it.

 

[lil_sparkle]

Thanks for all your advice. They unfortunately wont sell the setting by itself, or reset diamonds bought elsewhere.

Fingers and toes crossed they listen and deliver!!