Should I be worried? Silk inclusion in the crown.

[chel180]

I have been looking for a blue sapphire for a ring for a while now without previous success, as many of you may remember from previous posts. Recently a cutter offered me a piece of rough which he could cut for me. The finished piece would be the right color, size and shape, and with excellent cutting.

The one snag is that although the clarity is described as very good, the finished stone will have a silk inclusion in the crown. I'm not a purist so I am OK with inclusions providing they are not overwhelming or detract from the beauty of the stone. I am, for example, happy with SI1 diamonds providing the eye is fairly clean and there are no black spots visible. But as this silk will be in the crown I'm worried.

If this was a minor purchase for me I wouldn't worry to much but whilst its a low budget project its also a significant one. I have saved up to buy my sapphire and once spent there would be no money for a replacement unless I could sell it on DB for what I paid. As it'll be a custom cut this purchase is nonrefundable.

Please can the gem experts on PS please educate me on silk inclusions in sapphires?

Please can the gem owners on PS please share any experience or photos of their own stones that have silk/crown inclusions?

Advice is, as always, welcomed

Thanks in advance

 

[Pandora II]

Fine silk is a plus in sapphires and rubies - silk consists of very fine intersecting needles of minerals like rutile. These helps refract the light within the stone and is the cause of the 'glow' that many fine stones will have.

Too much silk can cause a cloudy effect.

Personally I like a little bit of silk in my stones.

 

[chel180]

I've never seen a silk inclusion (that I know of) and I have visions of white lines streaking across the eye.

 

[chrono]

I don't mind a bit of silk in my gemstones but not to the point where it detracts from its beauty and spakle. I do not like cloudy or oily looking stones. Sometimes a bit of silk enhances the colour and gives it that touch of glow. Do you know how much silk will show up per the lapidary? Also how apparent will it be? I own a blue sapphire that shows the rutile silk when magnified but I can't see it IRL.

I've seen Mahenges spinels on PS that show varying levels of silky inclusions.

 

[chel180]

That picture helps. Thank you Chrono.

I don't think that all the silk is visible within the whole sapphire. It sounds like it was just a single piece that's visible.

 

[pregcurious]

If the silk inclusion in the crown is eye clean, it would not bother me. I think what the other posters are talking about is a small amount of silk that is evenly distributed and gives the stone a glow. That kind of silk is good.

 

[chel180]

I've specifically asked if it will be eye clean.

 

[Starzin]

Chrono thank you for the comparative pictures - very helpful.

 

[NKOTB]

I own a spinel that was described as having "some light silk" but also a VS stone. Here is one of the vendor shots. If I look REALLY hard in person, I can see it, but it definitely doesn't detract from the beauty - it's incredibly sparkly.

 

[amertrine]

I can just about see that silk in that photo but you are right that it is a beauty of a stone and the silk does not detract from that. Thanks NKOTB

 

[partgypsy]

It really depends on how much silk he is talking about. Again a fine "mist" of silk does not detract, but I don't like silk that is more distinct and looks like a veil over part of the stone. This is a difficult decision because it sounds like you have to make a purchasing decision before the stone is cut and you know how it looks, correct?

 

[chel180]

I have emailed and am waiting to hear back from the cutter. I have asked if the stone is eye clean.
I read his first email as a single strand but that comes from my expectation of what a silk looks like. Hopefully I'll get some more info soon.

 

[chel180]

so the silk will have a shimmer to it like a star sapphire, the silk isn't static, but will be visible by eye but only at some angles.

what do you guys think?

 

[Pandora II]

I have an unheated blue sapphire with silk.

When I turn it under the light I can see tiny sparkles being thrown off by the rutile needles which make up the silk and it is a huge positive in the stone.

I have seen stones where patches of silk can look like a little cloud - not so good!

Here are a few examples:

The first is what the silk in my stone looks like under magnification - you can't see anything other than a few twinkles with the naked eye.

The second is a stone that has a little, relatively visible silk (on the right hand side of the table). In real life is would almost certainly be almost invisble - the stone will be much smaller and continually moving and reflecting light. I would buy a stone like this one in a heartbeat. The fact that it's also a true 'Kashmir' helps!

Photos always show inclusions at their worst as they are static and hugely magnified! (I have stones that I thought were almost loupe clean - I've taken photos for my records and thought blimey, never knew that was there!)

Star sapphires are made when the whole stone contains huge numbers of intersecting needles inclusions (usually rutile).

 

[pregcurious]

Pandora, I am in love with your sapphire. Can you suggest any vendors in the US or UK? I live in the US, but visit the UK often.

 

[Pandora II]

Sadly neither are my stones - I'm not good at micro-photography but the picture is identical to what I see - and the emerald cut Kashmir is on my wish list once I win the lottery - you're talking $5 figures for a stone like that...

Most of the dealers I know in the UK are trade only (I have access due to most of my gemmology classmates working in the trade, and being a gemmologist apparently qualifies me even if I don't actually trade ).

There is one who I recommend for coloured stones (topgem - link in the vendors thread) as he has amazing sapphires and rubies - and garnets. It's an online store - they don't have a shop as such but you can arrange to visit in person - although best to book well ahead as they are often abroad on buying trips.

There are a fair number of dealers open to the public in Hatton Garden. A couple have really good stones - hidden away and got out if they know you know what you are looking at - but most have mega-windows and are guppies.

Prices in the UK will include a 20% sales tax, so bear that in mind if you are comparing prices. I believe that you can reclaim the VAT if you are from the USA.

In any case, the majority of my stones are from overseas - either online dealers in the USA (some PS vendors) or Thailand, or direct from the source in countries like Sri Lanka and Thailand (either I buy them or if one of my classmates is going out I might ask them to look out for something for me).

 

[chel180]

your comments and photos are really helpful thank you. I'm going to go with the stone, I'll let you know what it looks like irl when I have it in hand.

 

[pregcurious]

Can't wait to see it!

On an unrelated note, did you get a chance to contact Wink Jones about melting down your ring to make into a plain band?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reusing-old-good-is-it-possible.167538/#post-3049251#p3049251']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reusing-old-good-is-it-possible.167538/#post-3049251#p3049251[/URL]

 

[chel180]

Can't wait to see it!

On an unrelated note, did you get a chance to contact Wink Jones about melting down your ring to make into a plain band?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reusing-old-good-is-it-possible.167538/#post-3049251#p3049251']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reusing-old-good-is-it-possible.167538/#post-3049251#p3049251[/URL]

Sorry for the late reply but I didn't check back.

I did contact Wink but have decided to wait a while longer before have the band made. Basically I don't have enough metal yet. My old wedding band is only 3mm wide x 1mm thick and my engagement ring shank is 1.8mm wide x 1mm thick. I'm planning to upgrade my eternity ring too soon, so thats some more metal to add. My plan is to end up with a "wedding-set-in-one" wedding band. So it's still something I really want to do and will get round to this year.