shape
carat
color
clarity

To consumers who need help in evaluating diamonds

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,676
Gypsy|1324597909|3087086 said:
My favorite thing about posts like this is that posters who aren't in the 'trenches' on RT, who say it is a thankless pain, who refuse to help out saying that have better things to do with their time are the ones who are here arguing with the vendors that they have an agenda.

You will notice that except for Yssie, none of the regular RT posters: Dreamer, Diamondseeker, Stonecold, myself, Charmy, slg, etc. have commented.

Why? Because we are out there actually helping people. Posts like this are useless for newbies, as a general rule. It will be up for a short while then disapear and none but those who are arguing their point vociferously will remember it. It doesn't affect anything. To actually affect change you need to help out in RT. As a regular poster.

If you have an opinion on something like this: post in RT on the "real" threads. If you think we are pushing our preferences-- step in and say so nicely. If you think we are a doing a good job-- step in and learn so you can do it too.

All this effort spent on something that stirs the pot. What a waste. And it also gives a bad impression to the newbies of discord and doesn't encourage them to learn enough to stay and help out-- because they can CLEARLY SEE that the vendors do not value US, so why should they join us. If there is a vendor agenda it is that... some of them appear to want the 'prosumers' to disappear so they can have free reign and use posts like this to bully consumers into listening to the vendors not the prosumers.

TheGreatTwizz and Marchesa, especially you both as newer members. Stick around HERE and help us-- we are appreciated, even if it doesn't seem like it from threads like this.

Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Laila619|1324600333|3087122 said:
Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.

My bad, I'm not used to your newer AV. Still look for the halo. :wink2: Slg's has been tripping me out for days as well.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,242
Gypsy|1324601003|3087135 said:
Laila619|1324600333|3087122 said:
Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.

My bad, I'm not used to your newer AV. Still look for the halo. :wink2: Slg's has been tripping me out for days as well.


Hah, I'm glad it's not just me :oops:


ETA: As for the rest of this thread... We all try, as Gypsy said sometimes without even a "thank you" to show for it. We don't all agree, but that's the way it *should* be, and none of us are robots - we all have to make conscious efforts to keep our posts as objective as possible. I absolutely agree that threads like this aren't the least bit helpful to newcomers, and I also agree that if one of us, in our efforts to help, does stray then a correction will only be appreciated by everyone involved...
 

marchesa6989

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
203
i certainly didn't mean to offend anybody and i'm sorry if i did :sick: :(sad i was just trying to give my opinion on the topic, not get involved in politics, or take digs at anybody. i try to be objective and phrase things in a polite way, and also to simmer down any overheated debates. my posts were intended to steer the topic onto what i thought was the more informative track. apologies again if i said the wrong thing or treaded on any toes...not my intention.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,242
marchesa6989|1324603424|3087165 said:
i certainly didn't mean to offend anybody and i'm sorry if i did :sick: :(sad i was just trying to give my opinion on the topic, not get involved in politics, or take digs at anybody. i try to be objective and phrase things in a polite way, and also to simmer down any overheated debates. my posts were intended to steer the topic onto what i thought was the more informative track. apologies again if i said the wrong thing or treaded on any toes...not my intention.


Is this is response to my post? If so it wasn't aimed at you, or any one else really - just general philosophizing!

I do often find myself wishing very much that tradespeople could participate more actively, and not have to resort to abstractions to share their knowledge. But that's a different topic I guess.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,711
Can I just say how incredibly difficult is is for a vendor to participate here.
There are extremely knowledgeable participants that make a vendor feel very welcome- and also we can see a lot of hostility towards a vendor, for just being here.
I've learned a lot during the time I've been a participant here. And enjoyed doing it.

I agree with so much of what twizz wrote.
When I'm on a forum to learn about cars people in the trade that post were able to really help me sort out a disgruntled consumer from a legitimate cause for concern, for example.
Not to say I don't value consumer participation- that's what really makes any forum thrive.

But there's incredible value in assisting readers to separate opinion from facts IMO.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Yssie|1324602323|3087157 said:
Gypsy|1324601003|3087135 said:
Laila619|1324600333|3087122 said:
Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.

My bad, I'm not used to your newer AV. Still look for the halo. :wink2: Slg's has been tripping me out for days as well.


Hah, I'm glad it's not just me :oops:


ETA: As for the rest of this thread... We all try, as Gypsy said sometimes without even a "thank you" to show for it. We don't all agree, but that's the way it *should* be, and none of us are robots - we all have to make conscious efforts to keep our posts as objective as possible. I absolutely agree that threads like this aren't the least bit helpful to newcomers, and I also agree that if one of us, in our efforts to help, does stray then a correction will only be appreciated by everyone involved...

sorry if it's annoying! I thought it was fun for the holidays...will change it back soon :razz:

anyway, I have not commented because I am traveling for the holidays :) but I do think it is important to keep what is best for the OP in mind and not push personal preferences. I think the best posts encourage posters to figure out for themselves what their preferences are and go with that...however not everyone is able to spend time comparing colors/clarities/cuts/looking in different lighting/looking at smaller table vs. bigger table/skinny arrows/fat arrows/non H&A vs H&A...

anyway, ultimately we do the best we can, and it is up to the OP which advice to take...
 

Sky56

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,040
I don't mind reading this. I own a GIA 1.12 F VS1 large-tabled emerald cut that I love (it is 71%) The cut looks wonderful to me...and I am also not a big fan of the star the arrows make in ideal cuts...but I love reading what consumers and vendors write on the forum...The education I've gained here is immeasurable. I think the good point to take from this is that beautiful gems exist for all different tastes and budgets.
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,723
Gypsy|1324601003|3087135 said:
Laila619|1324600333|3087122 said:
Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.

My bad, I'm not used to your newer AV. Still look for the halo. :wink2: Slg's has been tripping me out for days as well.
I post in here often enough, under this username and my previous one. Though I may cherry-pick what I respond to. In fact it's possible this thread is at least partially in response to my defense of an SI1 emerald cut. One reason I don't post more often is because I don't think eye-clean from onestinkinginch unset is what most girls want, especially when they were last seen fawning over a diamond from Zale's, but that doesn't seem to be PS consensus.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,241
marchesa6989|1324593110|3087028 said:
imperative word there being sometimes, lula :)) you are indeed right that often that is not the case, but sometimes it happens and then the OP gets all confused.

anyhow i think everyone has raised some good points. regardless noone should ever be a robot and listen to some random unknown person on the internet. a wise consumer would evaluate all the information and decide for themselves!

Marchesa I have noticed you helping a lot in RT and I thini it is awesome that you have been bitten by the bug ::) I do think this is a good place to perhaps to direct you to a great article written by one of the RT "Grand Dames", Lorelei, which has some great pointers about being a really hepful prosumer: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rockytalky-prosumer-guidelines.145983/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rockytalky-prosumer-guidelines.145983/[/URL]

One of the points it makes, which I think is good and which I personally always try to adopt, is NOT to recommend specific diamonds to a consumers unless they ask for you to find them other options. To ask questions and help them to cement their own desires though education. I think these are good guidelines for all prosumers who want to help in RT, and we could all benefit from looking at the article from time to time to remind ourselves that we are not here to push our agenda or preferences but to help the OP make an informed choice.
 

Gypsy

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Messages
40,225
marchesa6989|1324603424|3087165 said:
i certainly didn't mean to offend anybody and i'm sorry if i did :sick: :(sad i was just trying to give my opinion on the topic, not get involved in politics, or take digs at anybody. i try to be objective and phrase things in a polite way, and also to simmer down any overheated debates. my posts were intended to steer the topic onto what i thought was the more informative track. apologies again if i said the wrong thing or treaded on any toes...not my intention.

You definitely didn't offend me. I've been watching you hoping you'll stay!

MissStepcut-- Laila often doesn't agree with the majority either. And her voice is one I personally value. Your opinion is valid, and I think that it would be good to hear it more often. Although, if I can say-- I do wish you would change your AV. That blue AV is really easy to overlook since so many newbie's use it.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
25,241
MissStepcut|1324610555|3087251 said:
Gypsy|1324601003|3087135 said:
Laila619|1324600333|3087122 said:
Gypsy, I'm a RT regular. I'd say the majority of my post total is mainly from RT.

My bad, I'm not used to your newer AV. Still look for the halo. :wink2: Slg's has been tripping me out for days as well.
I post in here often enough, under this username and my previous one. Though I may cherry-pick what I respond to. In fact it's possible this thread is at least partially in response to my defense of an SI1 emerald cut. One reason I don't post more often is because I don't think eye-clean from onestinkinginch unset is what most girls want, especially when they were last seen fawning over a diamond from Zale's, but that doesn't seem to be PS consensus.

Who cares what the PS "consencus" is? I don't know many people in RT who will try to argue your point down if you make it in a thread. I like eye clean up close, but if you post your opinion, I would not argue with you. This is not Hangout ;)) I have seen this sort of reasoning before by a lot of posters for why they don't participate in RT... "My opinion is different than the majority". So what? Post anyways. And if people DO disagree with you, so what? The OP can look and decide what he or she cares about.
 

TheGreatTwizz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
107
Lula|1324599033|3087105 said:
TheGreatTwizz|1324594780|3087047 said:
That doesn't mean because someone has 1k, 10k, or 100k posts and 50 carats in their jewelry box that they are an EXPERT. They simply know what THEY like. You may have different tastes.
Dude, that is really insulting to the many posters -- like Gypsy -- who have thousands of posts to their name and answer countless questions from newbies like you. I'm sorry, but some of the people posting here have spent years helping people get the best stone for their money, often without any thanks at all (and I am not including myself in this category, because I am admittedly too biased about what I like to be of much help). So, yeah, in my opinion, they are EXPERTS. But last time I said this, the newbie went running away, never to be seen again. We'll see what you're made of.

ETA: Effect change not affect change.

Wow, feel like I'm on the campaign trail here, having a single line highlighted that, on its own, yes, may sound insulting. In the context of not only the paragraph it was in, but the post as a whole, absolutely is not. And, to take that a step further, as you said, it is your OPINION.

I'm not addressing any poster in particular, as I haven't conversed here long enough to know any of them, so I'm going to make a few statements that apply as a whole, with no specific inclusion or exclusion. We, obviously, have differing opinions of what an 'expert' is. In this field, an expert could, would, and should commonly be acknowledged as one who is in the trade, has training and certifications, and can issue paperwork that is recognized industry wide. The posters to whom I'm referring aren't experts, they are ENTHUSIASTS. This isn't meant pejoratively, it is a simply statement of fact. Diamonds and jewelry are a HOBBY, not a LINE OF WORK. Mr. Atlas, RD, James Allen, etc., those folks are EXPERTS. They do this for a living, it is their trade, their work is recognized in their industry.

Whether you agree with my sentiments or not, I'm offering a newbie's OPINION as one from the outside. Many times, with any community, those within may not see the trees through the forest when it comes time to reflect, and I think that is what Mr. Atlas was getting at.

Further, it is pretty obvious that the majority of members that come to PS do so looking for one-time advice or help. I happen to believe in contributing back to something that helps, thus my reasoning for staying around. Plus, my diamond purchases aren't done, and I want to stay on top of things and learn even more than I already have. Personal attacks, like what you're looking to engage in with 'We'll see what you're made of.' are what will cause those who can offer value to the community to run away. Instead of ATTACKING my position, personally, as you did, you could have simply offered your OPINION in a much more neutral manner. When it gets to the point I've had enough of personal attacks such as yours, I'll simply stop posting under this name, and when I actually need to post something, I'll just create a new name. It's the internet, we get to hide behind a computer screen. I doubt you'd pose such a challenge in a social situation. It would not only be uncouth, but rude in and of itself. I enjoy conversing about topics of which I have interest, and this happens to be one of them. As a male, in his 20s, having just spent over two months searching and directing the craft of over 3 carats for my fiancée's hand, I think I offer an atypical view for those that come to this forum. If you want that here, I'd be happy to contribute, if not, I'll be on my merry way.

As for 'answering countless questions from newbies like me': well, lets be clear (and feel free to review my threads). I had criteria for a modern cushion, reasonable color/clarity range, while being somewhat specific on spread. Read the responses I got from the seasoned members. Opinions were offered that the stone 'wasn't to taste' or 'there are better options out there', but no alternatives were ever offered. EVER.

What I think many of the seasoned posters out there fail to realize if that you have men, who are in one of their most vulnerable states, hoping to get every little thing perfect, coming here with their guard down, and they'll get openly chastised or criticized, and with exception to the RB searches, offered very few places to go. Be helpful and constructive, explain why, even if you already did it 10 times that day, or don't say a word. The things that I learned here I learned from reading old posts. When I started new threads, help was minimal, and offered very little usable advice. That doesn't mean I wouldn't continue to offer what I've learned, especially as a male in a VERY female world.

It is posts like yours that will keep me to the forums to which I already dedicate my time, as many of you would prefer to offer your OPINIONS then get offended when those ENTHUSIAST OPINIONS aren't regarded as FACT from an EXPERT.
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,723
Gypsy|1324614388|3087299 said:
Although, if I can say-- I do wish you would change your AV. That blue AV is really easy to overlook since so many newbie's use it.
Would you believe I have thrown 2 hours total at trying to fix it? And I used to have a "real" tar so obviously I've been successful at it before. Gah.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,241
Oh Twizz Twizz... my opinion is that your original post was insulting to regulars here who help, and your second post even more so. That is my opinion ;)) . If that was not your intent, I'm sorry to say that was the outcome. You very neatly disparaged all of the prosumers on this forum by negating our contribution and even dismissing our knowledge!

I'm sorry you did not get much help in your threads. Truth is, there are only 2-3 cushion experts... wait, sorry.. enthusiasts here on PS. In addition, prosumers are typically discouraged from presenting alternative diamond suggestions to posters, as it can create bias towards or away from vendors, and that is not a prosumer's role on PS. In my opinon ;)) Perhaps you would like to stay and spend a couple years and thousands of hours honing your enthusiasm so you can offer more help to posters than you received? I warn you, though, it is a very thankless hobby and passtime. In all liklihood, in the future, a young man in his 20s will assume you are just a woman, and an older woman at that, who knows nothing anyways beyond "oooh sparkly" and then will roundly disparage your knowledge and dedication to the subject while fawning all over an older male vendor. When it happens, you too might feel the urge to bite back, but just remember. You are only an enthusiast. Remember your place.
 

Gypsy

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Messages
40,225
Dreamer_D|1324701425|3087853 said:
Oh Twizz Twizz... my opinion is that your original post was insulting to regulars here who help, and your second post even more so. That is my opinion ;)) . If that was not your intent, I'm sorry to say that was the outcome. You very neatly disparaged all of the prosumers on this forum by negating our contribution and even dismissing our knowledge!

I'm sorry you did not get much help in your threads. Truth is, there are only 2-3 cushion experts... wait, sorry.. enthusiasts here on PS. In addition, prosumers are typically discouraged from presenting alternative diamond suggestions to posters, as it can create bias towards or away from vendors, and that is not a prosumer's role on PS. In my opinon ;)) Perhaps you would like to stay and spend a couple years and thousands of hours honing your enthusiasm so you can offer more help to posters than you received? I warn you, though, it is a very thankless hobby and passtime. In all liklihood, in the future, a young man in his 20s will assume you are just a woman, and an older woman at that, who knows nothing anyways beyond "oooh sparkly" and then will roundly disparage your knowledge and dedication to the subject while fawning all over an older male vendor. When it happens, you too might feel the urge to bite back, but just remember. You are only an enthusiast. Remember your place.

Dreamer, this is my favorite post of yours ever. :love:

Twizz-- according to your definition, because we are not employed in the trade our opinions are worthless BUT the very young lady behind the jewelry counter at Bailey Banks and Biddle who asked me where I got my beautiful princess cut (I have an asscher) last week is an expert So any one of the prosumers who have spent YEARS absorbing knowledge on here are just... wasting our time. Hmm, let me think about that. Oh yeah, you are wrong. Your prerogative of course. But just so you are aware -- all those old posts you learned so much from? Those are OURS. Our knowledge, our history. OUR time. Invested by US.

MissStepcut, jut email it to the Moderators and they'll put it up for you. 8)
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
9,711
Interesting how both DD and Gypsy simply ignored the points I raised

I'm not saying that there's not a lot of knowledgable consumers here- but the context created by tradespeople is invaluable
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Twizz...I remember when I first joined PS I started several threads asking qs about my e-ring and not all of them got a lot of responses. I too had to find out a lot of information by searching threads...

Obviously all of us have our personal preferences but I think a lot of the 'prosumers' offer facts...and some of the most valuable/helpful posts offer sources to back up their information, such as 'watch this video', 'consult this tutorial', 'read this article by John Pollard which explains this better than I can' etc. Most prosumers say things "I prefer VS" or "I prefer SI for the value" or "I prefer F-G color" so I do think the OP can sort out fact from opinion! Ultimately PS is consumers and vendors participating and because of the very nature of this forum it is not always going to be 'facts from experts' (who often disagree btw!)
 

Dreamer_D

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Messages
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Rockdiamond|1324732965|3087918 said:
Interesting how both DD and Gypsy simply ignored the points I raised

I'm not saying that there's not a lot of knowledgable consumers here- but the context created by tradespeople is invaluable

I do agree that trandespeople are invaluable RD. I just wish that you, and this post by Oldminer, did not always try to subtlt create an "us" and "them" mentality between the consumers and yourselves. Even this post you just made righ there, calling our Gypsy and I for ignoring you. Can I call you out too? You ignore the points I make all the darn time, RD ;)) .

Oldminer could have made this *same point* by posting and saying "Hey all you consumers who help in RT, I think you should try to remember that not everyone wants the same thing..." and basically been on the same team as we are and created a united front in the goal I know we all share, which is to help educate consumers and protect their interests. Oh wait, I am assuming that is the goal we all share ;)) I know it is the goal of PS, and I hope you share it.
 

TheGreatTwizz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
107
Gypsy|1324702946|3087858 said:
Dreamer_D|1324701425|3087853 said:
Oh Twizz Twizz... my opinion is that your original post was insulting to regulars here who help, and your second post even more so. That is my opinion ;)) . If that was not your intent, I'm sorry to say that was the outcome. You very neatly disparaged all of the prosumers on this forum by negating our contribution and even dismissing our knowledge!

I'm sorry you did not get much help in your threads. Truth is, there are only 2-3 cushion experts... wait, sorry.. enthusiasts here on PS. In addition, prosumers are typically discouraged from presenting alternative diamond suggestions to posters, as it can create bias towards or away from vendors, and that is not a prosumer's role on PS. In my opinon ;)) Perhaps you would like to stay and spend a couple years and thousands of hours honing your enthusiasm so you can offer more help to posters than you received? I warn you, though, it is a very thankless hobby and passtime. In all liklihood, in the future, a young man in his 20s will assume you are just a woman, and an older woman at that, who knows nothing anyways beyond "oooh sparkly" and then will roundly disparage your knowledge and dedication to the subject while fawning all over an older male vendor. When it happens, you too might feel the urge to bite back, but just remember. You are only an enthusiast. Remember your place.

Dreamer, this is my favorite post of yours ever. :love:

Twizz-- according to your definition, because we are not employed in the trade our opinions are worthless BUT the very young lady behind the jewelry counter at Bailey Banks and Biddle who asked me where I got my beautiful princess cut (I have an asscher) last week is an expert So any one of the prosumers who have spent YEARS absorbing knowledge on here are just... wasting our time. Hmm, let me think about that. Oh yeah, you are wrong. Your prerogative of course. But just so you are aware -- all those old posts you learned so much from? Those are OURS. Our knowledge, our history. OUR time. Invested by US.

MissStepcut, jut email it to the Moderators and they'll put it up for you. 8)

Ahh, let me entirely up the chauvinistic quotient and say 'how typical of women'.

At no time did I discredit or take away value from PSers that have contributed all of their time and efforts. Nobody was disparaged or had their knowledge dismissed. Again, this was making an observation as to the difference in advice offered here, and you both choose to bite someone's head off over it. As I have learned, and apparently many of you have not, is that words are just words. There was no context or hidden implications to what I said. I offered an outsiders view, and that, not being to your liking, then became an insult. As with all forums of this type, prosumers offer a wealth of knowledge and experience to novice consumers. Nowhere is that more apparent than on PS. With regard to expert/enthusiast, well, I'm sure that my insurance company will happily accept your appraisal and pay my claim, right?

As for 'prosumers are typically discouraged from presenting alternative diamond suggestions to posters, as it can create bias towards or away from vendors, and that is not a prosumer's role on PS' --- well, pick any random five topics that ask for help or 'evaluation' on the first page of RT. Alternatives are posted, by the dozens, daily. I've never read a thread where that was 'discouraged', and I requested alternatives when 'i don't like it' was stated with no further explanation.

Both of you, however, in expected fashion, have twisted my words to another meaning that you see fit for YOUR agenda. I NEVER, at any time, even REMOTELY made an implication that "older women only know 'ohh sparkly'" and then fawned over an older, male vendor. You, unfortunately, are the one who took it that way due to your own personal complex. I have spent years and thousands of hours honing my enthusiasm on another forum, and to this day, will defer to an EXPERT when I'm wrong on facts. Further, I never said the counter girl at BBB, simply by virtue of working there, was an expert. Again, twisting words. This is something I'm sure the two of you never do elsewhere.

Dreamer, RD/Oldminer aren't subtly creating an us vs. them mentality. They're simply trying to separate the personal opinions from the factual advice. Just because Oldminer didn't phrase his statement into something that sounded nice going into your head doesn't mean that wasn't his implication. I certainly read it as such; you didn't. You are the one creating us vs them, not them. Guess what? If they were broads with the same mentality, I'd back them up just the same. You're the one making this about gender, not me.

Ladies, you enjoy your good old girls club here at Pricescope. When the cycle comes around again, and you wonder why more people don't stay around, just review this thread and see the environment that you've chosen to create.

Edit to remove the remainder of the paragraph.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Dreamer_D|1324741678|3087961 said:
Rockdiamond|1324732965|3087918 said:
Interesting how both DD and Gypsy simply ignored the points I raised

I'm not saying that there's not a lot of knowledgable consumers here- but the context created by tradespeople is invaluable

I do agree that trandespeople are invaluable RD. I just wish that you, and this post by Oldminer, did not always try to subtlt create an "us" and "them" mentality between the consumers and yourselves. Even this post you just made righ there, calling our Gypsy and I for ignoring you. Can I call you out too? You ignore the points I make all the darn time, RD ;)) .

Oldminer could have made this *same point* by posting and saying "Hey all you consumers who help in RT, I think you should try to remember that not everyone wants the same thing..." and basically been on the same team as we are and created a united front in the goal I know we all share, which is to help educate consumers and protect their interests. Oh wait, I am assuming that is the goal we all share ;)) I know it is the goal of PS, and I hope you share it.

RD, as our previous interactions have resulted in some fireworks, I have been trying to adopt a 'live and let live' mentality regarding your posts. It's not that I am ignoring you, I see your posts, but I am trying to avoid hostility. Perhaps you might try to do the same.

Regardless, I agree with Drea who said it with more tact than I am capable of.

Great Twiz, I am happy you got what you needed from us. Thanks for your 'insights' such as they are. I'm sure someone will find them valuable.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,225
Sorry, but I see Oldminer's post as . . . "Blah Blah Blah, you just can't be sure about what you read here, so you need an appraiser."
(Oldminer is an appraiser.)
Even if he honestly didn't intend this, that is the result it will have on some noobs.

I think the exact same post would have been fine if posted by someone with nothing to gain from the post.

I like to promote my business too, but PS forbids it.
Look at PS policy 2b for Trade Members, which is under the link at the bottom of this screen under "Forum Policy":
"Do not create fear-based doubts in consumers' minds in order to scare them into using your services."

To non-noobs it damages the perception of PS.
Posts like his makes PS appear like it is on the take by letting advertisers self-promote in the threads.
Even if it is not true, and I believe it is not, when striving to be seen as an independent site perception is everything.

Before I get called out for posting this, I DID report the OP two days ago right after it was posted, but did not get an email response.
Maybe their email system is still broken, like Ella reported recently.
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Premium
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Jan 18, 2010
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We appreciate the insight shared in this thread and will take the comments into consideration as we continue to revise and clarify our policies.

To clarify our trade policies, we do allow trade members to comment and discuss on stones, settings, color, etc. What we do NOT allow is for vendors to discuss or evaluate stones under consideration for purchase as we try to keep the forum as unbiased as possible. It would not be unbiased if we allowed vendors to criticize the stones of other vendors so they can steer business to their own stones. This is different than a vendor sharing their opinions on angles, color, or other properties in a thread not directly involving a purchase. These posts are not always black and white. There is much grey in moderating a forum like PS and we do our best to remove posts that violate our policies. Sometimes we discuss the post with the poster as to why it is in our grey area but do not remove it. This does not mean we have done nothing just because we determine that a post does not need to be removed.

We welcome these discussions from trade members or consumers. A trade member does not mean that person is an expert and a consumer does not mean that person is NOT an expert.

Kenny, please remember that the owners and moderators of PS are people too and as such we are spending time with our families this week. It is an entire week of holidays for some groups. We did just respond to your email. Please be gentle with us this time of year. There are only two of us looking after the emails and we need some time away too. :))
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks Ella. :wavey:
I don't mean to be a scrooge, and do have a wonderful holiday.

Like I added to my post, I waited two days and posted this since you recently said you were not getting some messages.
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
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No worries Kenny. We just wanted to remind everyone to be gentle with us around the holidays as we take some much needed time with our families. :))
 

Gypsy

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Ella and Andrey-- Happy Holidays to you both. ((HUGS))

I agree with Kenny about this post's main goal seems to be to 'create doubts' and with Dreamer that it creates an 'us and them' mentality. Very insightful post. See Kenny-- this is why we like to keep you around. Sometimes your posts cut right to the heart of the matter. Happy Holidays to you too.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aw, Gypsy.
Big hugs to you too. :love:

Edit: In my post I intentionally made no mention of a perceived us vs. them side of all this.
I'd rather not pump more air into a balloon that serves no useful purpose.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Of course were all entitled to our opinion- and the is a great place to air them
From where I sit Oldminers post was not intended to strike fear into consumers
I have been very critical of cut grade charts- and he has one in his signature
I read his post as a statement of moderation
When. a prosumer warns of leakage under the table in a GIA ex cut grade that they've never seen- yes , that is creating a baseless doubt.
Maybe the answer would be to have someone who identifies themselves ad a prosumer follow the same rules as trade
That would be another method of cutting down on bias
I too wish all a happy holiday!
 

Dreamer_D

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And happy holidays to everyone too! Especially Ella who has a monster job patrolling this lot of yahoos.

I am happy to move on now, anyways. I am leaving this thread in a good mood. I love when young men use the terms "broads", "girls" and "ladies" to refer to women during heated discussions. They are such quaint, old-timey terms. Remind me of my grandpa, bless his misogynistic little heart. It also brings back fond memories of my teens, when a politician patten me on the cheek and called me cute when I tried to express an opinion at a youth political conference! Ahhh so many fond fond memories. Thank you Twizz! That is the best Christmas gift I have received this year so far.

Gypsy, I'll meet you later at the old girl's club, okay? Eggnogg is my treat. Kenny, you are welcome too ;)) , even though you ain't a broad. ETA: And RD, I'd love it if you joined us too, we can use our ideal scopes to evaluate ornaments 8)
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Rockdiamond|1324758097|3088079 said:
Maybe the answer would be to have someone who identifies themselves ad a prosumer follow the same rules as trade
That would be another method of cutting down on bias


What a horrid idea, and revenue-increasing power grab. (why don't we have a puke smiley?)

We don't make money from what we post here.
If we consumers have a bias it results in readers getting more beautiful diamonds at a lower cost; our bias does not put money in our pockets.


Man! The pursuit of increased revenue by clever sneaky posting (like the one above) is what creates the most insidious and offensive bias on PS.
 
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