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PS Pre-Owned Seller -OR- Trade Member?

Allison D.

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,282
OMG Charmy, you're sooooo right. Many of the laps have their drops at a designated time, and it can resemble a feeding frenzy that requires making a snap decision instead of a planful one. It's hard to resist the feeling of "but if I think about it for one more nanosecond, it will be gone."

Once mindfulness returns, and we realized we have THREE of that same stone and likely won't set some of them, that's when the resell happens.

I do still think that's different though as it's a collector whose intent was to buy for him/herself instead of acting as a "finder's agent", so to speak. Nothing wrong with that, by the way, in my eyes....but it does feel like a different distinction.
 

MonkeyPie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
6,059
I think I have less problem with flipping, and more problem with flipping with bad reasoning. First off, don't be posting about it on PS if you don't want anyone complaining when you resell in short order. That solves a whole heck of a lot of problems. Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely). If YOU want to send a stone off to get certed, THAT SHOULD BE AT YOUR COST. You didn't have to do that, PSers are perfectly willing to trust the voice of someone that knows their stuff and still buy from them without a piece of paper. (Mostly.) Just because you felt the need to get your piece certed to feel comfortable, doesn't mean that anyone buying from you should have to suck up that price increase.

I am not a diamond consumer at all - so my opinion is only my own and I really don't want to hear about why I am wrong. This thread is about opinions, this is mine. Also, not ripping anyone a new one here with this post, because I have no idea about the back history. Gracias. :tongue:

ETA: This thread makes my ouch achy hurt. Holla. :appl:
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,723
I think if you flip, you're a vendor. One flip or a dozen, if you buy with the intent to re-sell, you're engaged in an activity that is a business.

Like others have said, I certainly don't object to flipping. But I want to know that this is a flip versus truly "pre-loved" piece (by the seller).
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
1,622
We are still in discussion for where to draw the line regarding a consumer vs. a trade member in situations such as these. We have in the past asked consumers to move to trade status when their hobby turned into a business and we will continue to do so.

One thing that we would like to make crystal clear is that PS pre-loved sellers (or trade members) may NOT hawk their wares or solicit for business on the forum. Period. If you see such an action please report it.

We do not want to be in the business of regulating number of posts or pricing. We are still defining a line regarding trade vs. consumer, however if someone is regularly "flipping" or reselling for a profit we will need to discuss their status on the forum with that individual member.

For pricing, please vote with your wallet. If you do not like someone's price, do not buy the item.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,225
Thanks Ella.

So, if your asking price is a grand, be wise.
Don't tell us you bought it for a buck at a garage sale.
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
kenny|1322018888|3067317 said:
Thanks Ella.

So, if your asking price is a grand, be wise.
Don't tell us you bought it for a buck at a garage sale.

What about when somone gets a steal of a deal on eBay for a diamond ... they post all about their amazing deal and gain a lot of love on PS and even sets it. A few months down the road .. they decide they don't want it anymore and sell it a fair second hand price (which is still a lot more than they paid for).
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
kenny|1322018888|3067317 said:
Thanks Ella.

So, if your asking price is a grand, be wise.
Don't tell us you bought it for a buck at a garage sale.

Kenny I agree. But there appears a whole passel of folks who feel entitled to know that information.

I don't see why we have to tell anyone BUT the moderators that we are engaging in a flip.

And yes, if someone finds the listing of the item you are flipping on ebay or wherever, they can post it if they want to: that's the risk you take posting on PS... but the original seller isn't required to post the link THEMSELVES and IMO is perfectly justified by NOT saying "I bought it for 5 bucks but I want 10". Not a required disclosure for posting an item, IMO.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,634
Gypsy|1322015535|3067254 said:
Is the line: NO FLIPS! One flip and you are a vendor.
According to the IRS yes.
One flip and you are required to file a profit and loss statement and report the income.
Therefor you are a business, therefor you are a vendor.
 

MonkeyPie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
6,059
CharmyPoo|1322019174|3067321 said:
kenny|1322018888|3067317 said:
Thanks Ella.

So, if your asking price is a grand, be wise.
Don't tell us you bought it for a buck at a garage sale.

What about when somone gets a steal of a deal on eBay for a diamond ... they post all about their amazing deal and gain a lot of love on PS and even sets it. A few months down the road .. they decide they don't want it anymore and sell it a fair second hand price (which is still a lot more than they paid for).

Personally? That seems more legit to me. They wore it and loved it for awhile, rather than turning around and selling it within days or weeks. That's why it's called the Pre-Loved Forum, after all! :cheeky:
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
MonkeyPie|1322017397|3067289 said:
Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely).


I dont think that's true. I purchased a 1.15ct H SI1 oval diamond w/ GIA report for $1400, and it came with a nice platinum setting. Think retail is 3 times that? The girl just wanted it gone and let it go for a song. If I want to sell it for $2000, why can't I legitimately sell it for that price? I got a great deal, and whomever wants it probably can't find it for that price, so if they want to pay $2k, that's a legitimate profit. Supply and demand.
 

MonkeyPie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
6,059
Karl_K|1322019549|3067328 said:
Gypsy|1322015535|3067254 said:
Is the line: NO FLIPS! One flip and you are a vendor.
According to the IRS yes.
One flip and you are required to file a profit and loss statement and report the income.
Therefor you are a business, therefor you are a vendor.

Well then. That answers all questions!
 

MonkeyPie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
6,059
ForteKitty|1322019589|3067330 said:
MonkeyPie|1322017397|3067289 said:
Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely).


I dont think that's true. I purchased a 1.15ct H SI1 oval diamond w/ GIA report for $1400, and it came with a nice platinum setting. Think retail is 3 times that? The girl just wanted it gone and let it go for a song. If I want to sell it for $2000, why can't I legitimately sell it for that price? I got a great deal, and whomever wants it probably can't find it for that price, so if they want to pay $2k, that's a legitimate profit. Supply and demand.

That definitely is not the norm. Typically any item will lose value after it leaves it's original shop. The problem is not that you CAN do that - it is SHOULD you. Why would you buy something and then turn right around and sell it unless you intend on flipping for profit?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
CharmyPoo|1322019174|3067321 said:
kenny|1322018888|3067317 said:
Thanks Ella.

So, if your asking price is a grand, be wise.
Don't tell us you bought it for a buck at a garage sale.

What about when somone gets a steal of a deal on eBay for a diamond ... they post all about their amazing deal and gain a lot of love on PS and even sets it. A few months down the road .. they decide they don't want it anymore and sell it a fair second hand price (which is still a lot more than they paid for).

I don't see an issue in this. That person bought the diamond for personal pleasure. If diamonds go up 100% over that few months, certainly they should sell for a price in accordance with current pricing. If I decide to sell a stone I bought 20 years ago, I am not going to sell it for 70% of the purchase price, that's for sure! Price correction occurs naturally because items won't sell when priced too high. I agree with Ella that the pricing is not the issue here. The issue is someone potentially bidding against us for something we really wanted but they know that and decide to buy it and resell here because they think they have a buyer.
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
diamondseeker2006|1322019519|3067327 said:
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.

This sums it up for me, actually-great post, ds. I don't think there's anything wrong with flipping eBay finds, exactly, but it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of PS.

That said, if someone is willing to pay the asking price, that's their choice.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
diamondseeker2006|1322019519|3067327 said:
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.


DS, you know I've done that for a very long time. Heck look on RT and you'll see threads thanking me for my help right now. So I've helped PLENTY OF PEOPLE.

According to your post I've crossed over to vendor and am now "bad" for doing that.

Do you want me to stop helping on RT? Because if I'm a vendor I will pretty much have to. And I am not going to play 'toe the line' for a few flips. I'm going to stop posting entirely. If that's the way this forum votes about people who want to make some money on a few casual flip... well, I'm not sure that I want to be part of a community that judgmental with that much intolerance. I can buy and flip on DB-- resign from PS and get a new hobby. I'll still be flipping, but I sure as heck won't help out in RT anymore because I won't help a bunch of people that decide that I'm a bad person for taking my skills and applying them to help out my own household income.

Is Storm also BAD because he's now a vendor?

I find your post extremely narrow minded and hurtful.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
MonkeyPie|1322019771|3067335 said:
ForteKitty|1322019589|3067330 said:
MonkeyPie|1322017397|3067289 said:
Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely).


I dont think that's true. I purchased a 1.15ct H SI1 oval diamond w/ GIA report for $1400, and it came with a nice platinum setting. Think retail is 3 times that? The girl just wanted it gone and let it go for a song. If I want to sell it for $2000, why can't I legitimately sell it for that price? I got a great deal, and whomever wants it probably can't find it for that price, so if they want to pay $2k, that's a legitimate profit. Supply and demand.

That definitely is not the norm. Typically any item will lose value after it leaves it's original shop. The problem is not that you CAN do that - it is SHOULD you. Why would you buy something and then turn right around and sell it unless you intend on flipping for profit?

Um, for the money? Duh. :bigsmile:

I'm not sellling it tho, it's in my Maytal ring. But it's nice knowing I can and make a profit.
 

MonkeyPie

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
6,059
ForteKitty|1322020161|3067342 said:
MonkeyPie|1322019771|3067335 said:
ForteKitty|1322019589|3067330 said:
MonkeyPie|1322017397|3067289 said:
Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely).


I dont think that's true. I purchased a 1.15ct H SI1 oval diamond w/ GIA report for $1400, and it came with a nice platinum setting. Think retail is 3 times that? The girl just wanted it gone and let it go for a song. If I want to sell it for $2000, why can't I legitimately sell it for that price? I got a great deal, and whomever wants it probably can't find it for that price, so if they want to pay $2k, that's a legitimate profit. Supply and demand.

That definitely is not the norm. Typically any item will lose value after it leaves it's original shop. The problem is not that you CAN do that - it is SHOULD you. Why would you buy something and then turn right around and sell it unless you intend on flipping for profit?

Um, for the money? Duh. :bigsmile:

I'm not sellling it tho, it's in my Maytal ring. But it's nice knowing I can and make a profit.

I don't think you are getting my point...but ok.
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,723
Gypsy, no one is saying it makes you "bad" it just makes you a businessperson. Which PS has plenty of love for. But yes, I do think that makes you a vendor, no matter how "casual." Again... when has PS ever been anti-vendor as a class?

I would be sad to lose your help on RT, because you do contribute a lot. I'm sure lots of vendors could contribute more if the rules weren't the way they are, but that's the trade-off I guess.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
diamondseeker2006|1322019519|3067327 said:
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.

Great post, DS.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,634
Gypsy|1322019988|3067340 said:
Is Storm also BAD because he's now a vendor?
Some people think I was always bad :}
Seriously when I found out I would be making money from the sale of diamonds I contacted Andrey and got set up as a trade member and did not post for a couple weeks under my consumer name until it was public.

There is no question to me or the IRS you are a vendor when doing flips the decision if that level of vendor is allowed without a trade badge and more restrictive rules is a question for the admins.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
MissStepcut|1322020274|3067344 said:
Gypsy, no one is saying it makes you "bad" it just makes you a businessperson. Which PS has plenty of love for. But yes, I do think that makes you a vendor, no matter how "casual." Again... when has PS ever been anti-vendor as a class?

I would be sad to lose your help on RT, because you do contribute a lot. I'm sure lots of vendors could contribute more if the rules weren't the way they are, but that's the trade-off I guess.

Here's where I get "Bad" :

diamondseeker2006|1322019519|3067327 said:
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.

So if I choose not to do that in a few specific cases where I opt to flip-- I'm NOT "doing the right thing" and I'm not being "good community" material.


Therefore: BAD behavior.
 

Allison D.

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,282
I don't think anyone has said that being a vendor is bad at all.

I think what's at issue is whether or not one needs to identify themselves AS a vendor because on this site, vendors are held to a different standard than a consumer.....and legimately so.
 

MissStepcut

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,723
You're right. I am sorry, I missed that.

It seems like there's some growing pains when someone moves from fellow consumer to vendor, or chooses to blur that line.
 

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,239
MonkeyPie|1322020253|3067343 said:
ForteKitty|1322020161|3067342 said:
MonkeyPie|1322019771|3067335 said:
ForteKitty|1322019589|3067330 said:
MonkeyPie|1322017397|3067289 said:
Second, the moment you get the stones, you have lost the ability to legitimately create profit unless it was WAY misrepresented in a good way (rarely).


I dont think that's true. I purchased a 1.15ct H SI1 oval diamond w/ GIA report for $1400, and it came with a nice platinum setting. Think retail is 3 times that? The girl just wanted it gone and let it go for a song. If I want to sell it for $2000, why can't I legitimately sell it for that price? I got a great deal, and whomever wants it probably can't find it for that price, so if they want to pay $2k, that's a legitimate profit. Supply and demand.

That definitely is not the norm. Typically any item will lose value after it leaves it's original shop. The problem is not that you CAN do that - it is SHOULD you. Why would you buy something and then turn right around and sell it unless you intend on flipping for profit?

Um, for the money? Duh. :bigsmile:

I'm not sellling it tho, it's in my Maytal ring. But it's nice knowing I can and make a profit.

I don't think you are getting my point...but ok.

Haha, what's not to get? I just dont agree. ;-) I think people are confusing this forum with family, and that's why people are so offended that others may be making a little bit of money. I'm not naive enough to think that people here have my best interest at heart, and I wouldn't expect them to. If they want to make some money, and they have buyers who are willing to pay, good for them!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Karl_K|1322020531|3067350 said:
Gypsy|1322019988|3067340 said:
Is Storm also BAD because he's now a vendor?
Some people think I was always bad :}
Seriously when I found out I would be making money from the sale of diamonds I contacted Andrey and got set up as a trade member and did not post for a couple weeks under my consumer name until it was public.

There is no question to me or the IRS you are a vendor when doing flips the decision if that level of vendor is allowed without a trade badge and more restrictive rules is a question for the admins.


Maybe that's a good compromise. I like that Karl. But I suspect the moderators are going to hate it. A separate designation for actively flipping PSers. Not a true vendor. Able to comment in RT and elsewhere without restriction (except on other flippers goods) but with a warning label and harsh penalties for anything that smacks of solitication or self-promotion.

What would we name it? This Quasi category?

FWIW, I thought you were SMART not bad Karl.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
MissStepcut|1322020684|3067354 said:
You're right. I am sorry, I missed that.

It seems like there's some growing pains when someone moves from fellow consumer to vendor, or chooses to blur that line.


Thank you honey. =)
 

Allison D.

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,282
The problem for PS has never been having vendors; it has ALWAYS had to maintain a separation that keeps consumers from being perceived as shills.

Just as one would recuse themselves in a legal proceeding to avoid any conflict of interest, the same holds true here for vendors. Vendors aren't able to comment on many things here lest it be perceived as a conflict of interest and self-promotional.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
ForteKitty|1322020743|3067356 said:
Haha, what's not to get? I just dont agree. ;-) I think people are confusing this forum with family, and that's why people are so offended that others may be making a little bit of money. I'm not naive enough to think that people here have my best interest at heart, and I wouldn't expect them to. If they want to make some money, and they have buyers who are willing to pay, good for them!


Good post FK!!
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Gypsy|1322019988|3067340 said:
diamondseeker2006|1322019519|3067327 said:
I think it is sad for a community like this not to help one another by recommending finds on ebay, etc. rather than buying out from under them and then reselling at a higher price. For one example, I really appreciate how MrsSalvo has helped me and others find items were were searching for. That OEC ring she found for kennedy was a recent amazing find!! Do we really think she should have bought it herself and then offered it for sale for a lot more (which it is worth, I am sure) since she knew Kennedy and others were looking for such a ring? I am sure she easily could have made a couple of thousand on that ring with good pictures and a $60 appraisal. But instead, she told kennedy about the ring so she could have it at the ebay price. And that, to me, was the right thing to do. And MrsS is not the only one. Many of us try to help people find what they are looking for. That is what a good community will do, help one another.


DS, you know I've done that for a very long time. Heck look on RT and you'll see threads thanking me for my help right now. So I've helped PLENTY OF PEOPLE.

According to your post I've crossed over to vendor and am now "bad" for doing that.

Do you want me to stop helping on RT? Because if I'm a vendor I will pretty much have to. And I am not going to play 'toe the line' for a few flips. I'm going to stop posting entirely. If that's the way this forum votes about people who want to make some money on a few casual flip... well, I'm not sure that I want to be part of a community that judgmental with that much intolerance. I can buy and flip on DB-- resign from PS and get a new hobby. I'll still be flipping, but I sure as heck won't help out in RT anymore because I won't help a bunch of people that decide that I'm a bad person for taking my skills and applying them to help out my own household income.

Is Storm also BAD because he's now a vendor?

I find your post extremely narrow minded and hurtful.

I'm not ds but I agreed with her post. I think you're taking it way too personally, and are taking the last line of her post completely out of context.
 
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