2ct+ Cushion Specs, Questions, Pricing

[TheGreatTwizz]

Hi diamond nuts!! Lurking here for the past few months has lead to a wealth of information, and being a research hound, has proved invaluable in my hunt. My many thanks for that! Am I going to be one of those users who posts, gleans tons of great info and never comes back, well, probably. My apologies in advance. If I can do the same for anyone else on cars (profession) or clothes (hobby; AskAndyAboutClothes.com), please look me up.

So the g/f and I have been talking about this for sometime, and after significant talk about cuts (she was split between an oval and emerald, I suggested asscher, she comes up with cushion [facets over steps]), she has set her heart on a 1.10+ ratio cushion, and in particular, a ring already set at a local jeweler (who will remain publicly unnamed, you can PM if it is relevant; they are established high end) with a halo and diamond band. She (the g/f) is a minimalist when it comes to the setting, but what makes her tick on this particular ring is the face up, which I only see on similar 2.5+ stones. My concern lies in how shallow it is.

I'm here for a few reasons, first for an opinion on the stone as specified, and secondly for what I should expect, within reason, to pay for this. I certainly don't have a problem sourcing a stone elsewhere and having it set, but a number of factors at work here, including her love for this particular ring, as well as this jeweler's particular motivation for having their ring on her finger (a very dialed-in community where she is well known and they would get TONS of exposure).

This is a 2.02 cushion, H, VS2 (not pleased there, inclusion at 9 o'clock is visible to me), P/S both good, no florescence, 52.3% depth (eek!!!), 61% table, measures 8.46x7.63x3.99, GIA cert.

Thoughts?

 

[Haven]

Hello! You've definitely come to the right place for advice.

As for your question: Most posters are going to tell you that it is impossible to judge a cushion by the numbers alone, and that we need pictures. Can you take some pictures of this stone to share online?

 

[Circe]

Would it by any chance happen to be a branded Daussi cushion? Those proportions sound kind of familiar, and they might represent your best bet in terms of comparing apples to apples, price-wise (settings are also similar to what you're describing).

That said, I think the important thing (after making sure the price isn't outrageous) is that she loves it. If she wants a shallow stone with a big face-up size, she wants a shallow stone with a big face-up size, y'know?

 

[GreenBling]

I am no expert on diamonds, but just want to share that I have a 2ct cushion modified brilliant that measures 7.7 x 7.01 x 4.1. So either the one you are looking at is big face up or mine small. Would be interested to hearing any comments about how big/small face up affects the performance of the diamond

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

Haven: Thanks, I figured this was the right place. I also very much trust my personal jeweler, and he's doing research for me as well. Pictures to be in next post (uploading to PB now).

Circe: The jeweler gave me no indication that this is a branded stone, but I will look into the Daussi. Thank you for that. She loves the large face up, and the setting, and felt she was doing me a favor with only going for 2ct, as it does look very large for a 2ct. Face up matters to her, not the shallowness, but, then again, she does want something that sits low on the hand. I have absolutely no qualms about stepping up to 3+ct to get her the same or larger face up (while retail priced WAYYY out of budget, 'market' on this stone is way under).

Elam: Yes, this is a big face up for a 2ct. My initial impressions and what I've heard is that a shallow stone will effect light performance. I've only evaluated it in the store where everything looks shiny.

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

I know the cell phone pics aren't ideal; are there any images that I would be 'in-line' with asking the Jeweler for (ASET/Idealscope), or is that something not done at retail stores?

 

[Haven]

That's a monster of a 2 ct!

There's no harm in asking the jeweler for an ASET or an Idealscope, the worst that can happen is you get "no" for an answer. No harm in asking.

These pictures are fuzzy, so it's hard to see the faceting pattern on the stone. That being said, it really reminds me of my first cushion, which was a modern cushion with a more crushed ice faceting pattern to it. The stone itself (based on your pictures only, of course) looks a bit dull, especially compared to the setting. In the first picture you posted, the setting is throwing off all sorts of tiny flashes of light, while the stone . . . isn't. While I loved my original stone, I love my upgrade stone much, MUCH more.

I was already a PSer when I found my first stone, and I came on here and posted photos of her, and asked for feedback. I was given a similar warning--she looks a bit dull, can you find something else, etc. But I was already in love with her, and I chose her, anyway. There's nothing wrong with that, but I wanted to share my story because I know it is difficult to pass up a stone once you've had it on your hand and you've decided you love it. HOWEVER, I think it's much wiser to take your time now and compare and really make sure that you're getting the best possible stone before you buy. (Which is why you're here, of course!)

Something like a huge spread can be very tempting, but you really don't want to compromise on performance with a stone.

Have you seen many other cushions in person? The lighting in the jewelry store will make every stone look great, but it's important to have a base of comparison, and to see how it performs in different lighting conditions.

Here's a picture of my original stone (on left) and my current stone, for illustration:

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

Exactly her thoughts!! And that's next to my full size 36mm Datejust on her wrist. Of note on the Datejust, I am told that it is a factory diamond bezel, which, for those that don't know, are generally of the highest quality. The fire and brilliance of those stones, even when dirty, sets a pretty high bar for me.

I had already prepped my jeweler for 3+ct, so when she told me she found a 2ct that she loved, I felt quite relieved and figured I was getting off easy. Then I saw it and started comparing measurements, and saw the huge spread. It looks like I'd have to go to 2.5 to get a similar face up in a better quality stone, and for that, I'd simply prefer to go to 3 (for note, my 'budget' is to stay in the 20's). But, that said, she does love this ring, and my best guess from shopping similar graded stones is that I could buy another for 11-14k. If I can get this ring for that number (this jeweler's list is so high I find it comical), it leaves me plenty of room to upgrade her in the future.

I agree that the setting definitely sparkles more than the stone, and my concerned lies in the shallowness effecting that. It isn't a huge chunky cushion, but it isn't the small crushed ice facets either; somewhere in the middle would be my amateur opinion. She does, however, prefer the crushed ice look.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but yours look to have relatively small tables, is that correct? I haven't seen any other cushions in person, but have an appointment with my jeweler to go look at some on Tuesday, so it'll give me a baseline to measure. I'm also waiting to hear back from this store as to a price on the setting.

What cushion tips could you offer to me, and, if you don't mind, where did you source yours?

 

[slg47]

I would recommend this video that really explains the different types of cushions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM

that being said if your GF LOVES a ring that is within budget...I would just go for it.

 

[Haven]

The cushion on the right has a small table, you are correct. It's an antique cushion. My local jeweler found it for me. I asked him to please search for antique cushions shortly after we purchased the original cushion, and after about three years of searching, he finally found this stone. (He came across one or two other contenders throughout those three years, but none that I loved enough to purchase.)

It sounds like your GF likes the crushed ice look, so perhaps this is the right stone for her. I just wanted to give you feedback that it looks a bit dull since, well, you asked for feedback. If she loves the stone, then go for it. But I really do think it might be worth taking some better pictures and reposting them here. This stone looks like it might be a bit dark, and a bit dull, and that would be a shame.

We see a lot of modern cushions here on PS that are truly, truly beautiful, and that sparkle and shine like the best of them. They are definitely out there, if you're willing to look for them.

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

slg, thank you for the video link, I will watch it.

Haven, as I think that 'most' girls do, she is simply seeing size and setting on that ring, not the stone (well, along with the excitement of getting engaged!!). We discussed this at length, and she told me to feel free to buy the 'right' stone, not simply the one she loves. She's deferred to my judgement on that understanding that I'll research the crap out of something before buying, especially when it is of this magnitude. I'm only doing this once!!!

Knowing that the setting can be replicated (and, in fact, I'll give that jeweler a shot at it, so they can rightfully say it is 'their' ring on her finger; they have a vested interest in doing so), and the face up size 8.46x7.63+ is well within my budget, I'll happily look elsewhere. Should I be concerned about H color and eye-clean VS2 on a cushion, or are both within parameters?? Also, should I look to 'lesser' stones for the setting (not necessarily F/VVS) so that they don't 'out-dazzle' a less than perfect stone?

I did find a few cushions on JA that strike my fancy, look to have good specs and are well below budget. It seems in this size, getting a 1.10+ isn't all that easy.

 

[Haven]

I think it will really help you if you define your priorities/preferences:

- Size or cut? (Sounds like she really cares about face-up size, but you have to be sure, here.)
- Color: Is she color sensitive to the point that she prefers a higher color? Or can you drop the color to gain more weight?
- Clarity: Eye clean or mind clean? If you want eye clean, you could drop to an eye clean SI1. If you need something to be mind clean, you'll want a higher clarity.

Once you find your center stone, then you can worry about the setting.

Take a look at the video SLG linked, it's very informative and well worth your time. (You could give Rhino a call, too. He finds some amazing cushions!)

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

Face up size is important to us both, but as I said, similar face up with 'appropriate' depth seem to be in the 2.3-2.5ct range, which is ok by me and I don't mind going bigger (she wouldn't complain either!). Cut, as in 'a well-cut stone that has great light performance' is second only to size, the rest are open for discussion. I'm looking for the kind of sparkle I get from my watch. I want to be distracted by it every time I'm around her. My biggest issue in shopping online is not being able to tell light performance and it seems that cushions are rarely, if ever, assigned a cut grade from GIA. I have 6 stones saved from JA, ranging from 12k-24k, all with the appropriate ratio. Assuming I don't come across a spectacular stone locally (I'm in Philadelphia), JA may be the way I'm going to go. Looking for something that faces up to that size for my budget doesn't seem like it is of particular concern. Would I spend 30 for something absolutely fabulous? Yes.

This will be set in platinum, so I don't want to go past J in color (K seems to really show to me).

I have good eyesight, the one on her hand is GIA VS2 and I can see the inclusion with my naked eye, which is a problem to me on that particular stone. I'd be ok with an SI1 as long as I'm not staring into flaws.

 

[slg47]

you're right that cushions are not assigned a cut grade from GIA. AGS assigns a cut grade to 2 types of cushions, the square cushion H&A and the august vintage cushion (Good Old Gold carries both of these).

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

So when a vendor like JA has cushions graded at 'Ideal' or 'Premium', that's only their in house grading, correct??

 

[slg47]

So when a vendor like JA has cushions graded at 'Ideal' or 'Premium', that's only their in house grading, correct??

yes.