Bad Taste left in Mouth

[TravelingGal]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

You won't get flamed by me MZ. I read that one and my mouth fell open. Then I had to re-read it again to determine if my trap flap was justified. It was.

 

[Arkteia]

MZ,

This post was mostly meant for Dana. And I hoped he would understand the irony of it.

You see, I have more reasons to be emotional than you are regarding this whole business. But I do not want to meddle in this situation and pour out my problems and feelings related to this stone specifically because I do not want Dana to lose MORE business! Nor post e-mails, which I have ample and which would make the whole situation even more incendiary.

I just sent an e-mail to Dana where I asked only one question. If you notice my last comment to your previous post, MZ, you may understand that I have been waiting for some things promised to me several months ago, and then a month ago... Reserved certain funds for them, too. At this point in time I realize that I shall never get one and lost interest in the other. This is what I said to Dana.

As to auctioning it... Was I wrong in understanding that Dana wanted to keep it in his collection? I just wanted to tell him that he probably would not enjoy seeing this stone after all that had happened on the PS. If the business is still unfinished, then, of course, it is a moot point. But I am usually more attentive at the beginning of the thread, especially in this case.

 

[Cind11]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

I agree with you. I am a bit baffled how auctioning this stone on Ebay is going to solve anything.

 

[Arkteia]

Cind11,

It was a joke meant mostly for Dana - please read my previous post and try to guess why I am so involved in the whole situation. Surprized, upset, amused as well. If people auction spells on ebay, why not auction "Empty Promises"?

 

[LD]

Another example of why Pricescope is referred to as "PMScope" in many many arenas.

More Chinese-made halo rings with pink stones for everybody! Whee!!!!

Edit: And all of you who have taken free stones from Dana in the past, well you can return those if you really think Dana is such a lame businessman and person.

WOW well done to StonieGrl for completely alienting posters. This was rude, unnecessary and absolutely nothing to do with this thread - perhaps a case of kettle calling black PMS?

Chrono/Dana - this most definitely appears to be a communication and expectation issue. Both of you had certain expectations and I think the middle ground that normally can be found was too far away from you both. It happens! Doesn't make anybody feel good though.

Chrono - you're my friend and I know you're level headed and always looking for a deal (aren't we all)! I also know that you will always concede if you feel you may have been wrong about an issue and have done so in this thread. I applaud you for that. I'm sorry that you're empty handed and don't have a gorgeous stone out of this - it must be very upsetting.

Dana - my dealings with you have been nothing short of a pleasure. You're always a gentleman and I very much appreciate that you've come here, said your piece and even apologised. I can understand the emotional attachment to your gemstones (as I have terrible difficulty in parting even with my worst stones) but I guess it's the first time I had considered that somebody buying and selling gemstones may have the same feelings. This would have surprised and upset me also if I had my heart set on one of your pieces but these things happen.

It pains me that two people I very much like have had a falling out. I do hope that you two can privately make peace. I'm sure you can.

 

[iLander]

This is how it was supposed to work:

Gene mentioned to me in an email that he had some pink spinel rough.

I wrote right back and asked him what size and price range did he think it would be when cut.

He wrote right back and said probably around $1200, give or take a couple of hundred.

I said that was outside my price range, but I'd like to see it just for hoots, before it was sold. Just for drooling.

That was that.

He didn't take 2 months to respond, nor did I have an unexpressed price in mind.

Prompt, complete, communication tends to solve problems before they start

 

[lelser]

This is how it was supposed to work:

Gene mentioned to me in an email that he had some pink spinel rough.

I wrote right back and asked him what size and price range did he think it would be when cut.

He wrote right back and said probably around $1200, give or take a couple of hundred.

I said that was outside my price range, but I'd like to see it just for hoots, before it was sold. Just for drooling.

That was that.

He didn't take 2 months to respond, nor did I have an unexpressed price in mind.

Prompt, complete, communication tends to solve problems before they start

And this is how it should work. Clear expectations, and fast communication. The last 10 years or so of my former career were spent running Professional Services groups in a major computer firm. Scoping projects, setting expectations and managing delivery are drilled into me.

If someone is serious enough to contact me about custom work, they should be able to know quickly what I can deliver, what it should cost, and when it should be ready. Things happen, but good communication along the way is critical.

I had a commission a while ago, where we agreed that the finished gem needed to be within certain dimensions. If it was, she committed to buy. The rough had some problems, and was the only one I had in that size range. It finished to a beautiful gem, but smaller than we'd agreed. I offered a lower price, but the client really needed the size to match her existing stones.

I put the stone into inventory and refunded her deposit. She was sad not to have it work out, but understood that there are things outside my control, and got her money back with no hassles.

None of this is rocket science (or at least my husband, a former rocket scientist doesn't think so but it does require good business and good communication skills.

 

[Aoife]

This is how it was supposed to work:

Gene mentioned to me in an email that he had some pink spinel rough.

I wrote right back and asked him what size and price range did he think it would be when cut.

He wrote right back and said probably around $1200, give or take a couple of hundred.

I said that was outside my price range, but I'd like to see it just for hoots, before it was sold. Just for drooling.

That was that.

He didn't take 2 months to respond, nor did I have an unexpressed price in mind.

Prompt, complete, communication tends to solve problems before they start

I agree with this, and it is certainly how I prefer to do business. However, without knowing all the ins and outs of the specific situation between Chrono and Dana (or, frankly, wanting to know all the ins and outs!) I think it's worth adding to the record that Dana seems to have had a run of difficult family and personal "things" to deal with recently, starting with his own hospitalization. I have no inside information, this has all been posted on his website. How much consideration any of us might choose to attach to that might vary, but in the past all of my dealings with Dana have followed the format iLander outlined above. During Dana's father's hospitalization communication was delayed, but ultimately all my questions were answered, the transactions went through, and the stones I acquired were worth the wait.

I'm just throwing this out for everyone's consideration, because PS vendors do have personal lives, and if 99% of your dealings with a vendor are positive, the occasional blip in service weighs differently with me than if it is part of an on-going pattern of sketchy communication, substandard product, and so on.

 

[cushioncutnut]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.




+MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

You won't get flamed by me MZ. I read that one and my mouth fell open. Then I had to re-read it again to determine if my trap flap was justified. It was.

+1 to both of you. Those who have NEVER ran a business, have no clue what it takes make it profitable. It could take years to do so.Crasu... I think your comment had good intentions, but I find it funny how a consumer can suggest to a business owner to be generous/charitable with their goods.
My husband and I own a small business and it gets harder and harder to run mostly due to the nature of the business, (Automotive Repair Shop), economy, and competition. Every day we get someone to try to finagle something out of us. I kid you not! And many times it is the person with the deepest pockets who try to take advantage of us. We do our best to make every one of our customers happy, but it is not entirely possible to do so. The very people whom we jump over backwards for and don't make very much $$ (if any!) are often times the type of personality we can't please to save our soul! I am not saying that about you Chrono... but think for a moment about the entire situation and was it worth getting so upset over? I do think Dana tried to meet you to the point that it put him in a compromising position. ...and did I understand that you were making an offer on something that you have never seen? I have had a few emails back and forth with Dana awhile back and thought he was the nicest, generous lapidary I have met. He offered... without me even asking, to split a parcel up. He didn't know me from Adam. People like that genuinely love their business and want to make the customer happy and earn their business, but you can't expect him to give his business away. This is his living and this is what he does to support his family. I am sure that his profitability is a very low percentage especially in this market, there are not many people buying gemstones. I do hope that you both can at least shake hands and make-up. I hate to see such nice people have a bit of a communication snafu.

 

[arjunajane]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

You won't get flamed by me MZ. I read that one and my mouth fell open. Then I had to re-read it again to determine if my trap flap was justified. It was.

have to say that I am in complete agreement with MZ too-maybe the OP was just made a rash post, but the reasoning it contains is beyond me

I will also say that I dont have much in the way of originality to offer this thread, but my understanding and opinion on the situation after reading both sides, is in line with what CCL posted a lil while back, and also second the additions Lisa has made regarding ways of doing business. The client in her story above is not me, however I can attest to Lisa being a very straight forward and efficient business woman, yet still flexible and understanding vendor when need be -this is how I personally like my lapidarys
Chrono - like many others here have commented, I have a high regard for your knowledge and your tastes. Regarding the waiting. I can completely sympathise hon; I too in the past have waited and emailed for a lengthy time, only to finally dislike the results and of course it is disappointing for both client And cutter when a custom order doesnt go ahead.. It sounds as if there were both communications and management of expectations issues involved here - either way, I sincerely hope that you can come across another spess that meets your requirements C, best of happy hunting lovey

 

[movie zombie]

crasu, you are obviously in communication with Dana.
you apparently have issues with him because of delays.
?perhaps in hindsight you would agree that it would have been better for you to communicated your concerns re your situation in dealing with him, how he might feel about this particular stone, and your eBay suggestion directly and privately with him rather than doing it in a public forum? i don't think its fair to pressure vendors here at pricescope in this manner.
just some food for thought......

MoZo

ps like Chrono, i'd have been very disappointed....even pissed as i mentioned in an earlier post. but it is a learning lesson. if any one of us thinks we can run a gem cutting business better, then i also think we should try doing so. personally, i know i couldn't so i won't. every vendor and every buyer is going to have their good days and their bad days. i'm assuming [yes, i know what happens when one "assumes"] that both thought they were operating openly and in good faith. even with the best of intentions things can go wrong. i'm hoping time will heal this "wound" between Chrono and Dana. this one interaction may affect the buying by some, but it won't for others. live and let live. i know a lot of time, effort, and money goes into projects, but as crasu mentioned there is a lot of hurt in this world right now and if this is the worst problem any of us have i think we are fortunate.

 

[FrekeChild]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

You won't get flamed by me MZ. I read that one and my mouth fell open. Then I had to re-read it again to determine if my trap flap was justified. It was.

have to say that I am in complete agreement with MZ too-maybe the OP was just made a rash post, but the reasoning it contains is beyond me

I will also say that I dont have much in the way of originality to offer this thread, but my understanding and opinion on the situation after reading both sides, is in line with what CCL posted a lil while back, and also second the additions Lisa has made regarding ways of doing business. The client in her story above is not me, however I can attest to Lisa being a very straight forward and efficient business woman, yet still flexible and understanding vendor when need be -this is how I personally like my lapidarys
Chrono - like many others here have commented, I have a high regard for your knowledge and your tastes. Regarding the waiting. I can completely sympathise hon; I too in the past have waited and emailed for a lengthy time, only to finally dislike the results and of course it is disappointing for both client And cutter when a custom order doesnt go ahead.. It sounds as if there were both communications and management of expectations issues involved here - either way, I sincerely hope that you can come across another spess that meets your requirements C, best of happy hunting lovey

Nor flamed by me. I'm not going to take a "side" because I can see both Dana and Chrono's points of view. Speaking as a customer, yes I'd be disappointed, but I'd never get so angry about something like this. As a salesperson, if I couldn't meet a profit margin that was acceptable, I'd really have to think about weighing the loss of a client against making money. Honestly, making money, especially in this economy would probably come first.

You know, I have an issue with a very popular vendor on CS, but I haven't told my story, only alluded to it in random posts, but I don't particularly want to get flamed for how I feel either. Someday I'll probably air my dirty laundry, but in the meantime I'll probably keep it to myself.

As for the ebay thing, .

 

[cushioncutnut]

crasu, you are obviously in communication with Dana.
you apparently have issues with him because of delays.
?perhaps in hindsight you would agree that it would have been better for you to communicated your concerns re your situation in dealing with him, how he might feel about this particular stone, and your eBay suggestion directly and privately with him rather than doing it in a public forum? i don't think its fair to pressure vendors here at pricescope in this manner.
just some food for thought......

MoZo

ps like Chrono, i'd have been very disappointed....even pissed as i mentioned in an earlier post. but it is a learning lesson. if any one of us thinks we can run a gem cutting business better, then i also think we should try doing so. personally, i know i couldn't so i won't. every vendor and every buyer is going to have their good days and their bad days. i'm assuming [yes, i know what happens when one "assumes"] that both thought they were operating openly and in good faith. even with the best of intentions things can go wrong. i'm hoping time will heal this "wound" between Chrono and Dana. this one interaction may affect the buying by some, but it won't for others. live and let live. i know a lot of time, effort, and money goes into projects, but as crasu mentioned there is a lot of hurt in this world right now and if this is the worst problem any of us have i think we are fortunate.

Amen to that last statement Mozo!

 

[VapidLapid]

I feel stupid, but I don't know what it is "to get flamed". I have fantastic visions of bands renegade PSers marauding the countryside with flame throwers, popping up at people's windows and giving them the ultimate bad hair day.

I shall now go to the farmer's market and get some apples for a pie. Perhaps if the pears are nice I will get those too for a pear tart, or apple pie with pear sides. Oh Vapid one, what is your point? To supplant the bad taste in mouth with good taste in mouth of course!

 

[FrekeChild]

I feel stupid, but I don't know what it is "to get flamed". I have fantastic visions of bands renegade PSers marauding the countryside with flame throwers, popping up at people's windows and giving them the ultimate bad hair day.

I shall now go to the farmer's market and get some apples for a pie. Perhaps if the pears are nice I will get those too for a pear tart, or apple pie with pear sides. Oh Vapid one, what is your point? To supplant the bad taste in mouth with good taste in mouth of course!

You crack me up VL! To get "flamed" is to get yelled at, berated, grumbled at, put down, attacked etc for whatever it is that you said.

 

[cellentani]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

You won't get flamed by me MZ. I read that one and my mouth fell open. Then I had to re-read it again to determine if my trap flap was justified. It was.

have to say that I am in complete agreement with MZ too-maybe the OP was just made a rash post, but the reasoning it contains is beyond me

I will also say that I dont have much in the way of originality to offer this thread, but my understanding and opinion on the situation after reading both sides, is in line with what CCL posted a lil while back, and also second the additions Lisa has made regarding ways of doing business. The client in her story above is not me, however I can attest to Lisa being a very straight forward and efficient business woman, yet still flexible and understanding vendor when need be -this is how I personally like my lapidarys
Chrono - like many others here have commented, I have a high regard for your knowledge and your tastes. Regarding the waiting. I can completely sympathise hon; I too in the past have waited and emailed for a lengthy time, only to finally dislike the results and of course it is disappointing for both client And cutter when a custom order doesnt go ahead.. It sounds as if there were both communications and management of expectations issues involved here - either way, I sincerely hope that you can come across another spess that meets your requirements C, best of happy hunting lovey

Nor flamed by me. I'm not going to take a "side" because I can see both Dana and Chrono's points of view. Speaking as a customer, yes I'd be disappointed, but I'd never get so angry about something like this. As a salesperson, if I couldn't meet a profit margin that was acceptable, I'd really have to think about weighing the loss of a client against making money. Honestly, making money, especially in this economy would probably come first.

You know, I have an issue with a very popular vendor on CS, but I haven't told my story, only alluded to it in random posts, but I don't particularly want to get flamed for how I feel either. Someday I'll probably air my dirty laundry, but in the meantime I'll probably keep it to myself.

As for the ebay thing, .

Freke, I don't think anyone is flaming Chrono for how she feels, and if anything, we have been sympathetic. Is she right to feel aggravated? Of course she is - she waited 2 months for a stone, and the price was much higher than she anticipated. However, one must be careful to not let feelings get in the way of negotiations, and I think that was at the heart of the transaction meltdown (on both sides). I'm not encouraging you to air your dirty laundry, but I think most PSers have commented with a fair amount of equanimity, and I trust they'd do the same for you.

 

[cellentani]

I feel stupid, but I don't know what it is "to get flamed". I have fantastic visions of bands renegade PSers marauding the countryside with flame throwers, popping up at people's windows and giving them the ultimate bad hair day.

I shall now go to the farmer's market and get some apples for a pie. Perhaps if the pears are nice I will get those too for a pear tart, or apple pie with pear sides. Oh Vapid one, what is your point? To supplant the bad taste in mouth with good taste in mouth of course!

I can't think of a more lovely thing to do on this Fall day - I'm sure your house will smell utterly fantastic in a few hours! Pie for everyone!

 

[FrekeChild]

Cell, I wasn't saying that people were flaming Chrono, but more the talk of flaming in general that's going on over here. It's unpleasant to air a bad experience about a vendor that so many other people have had good/great/amazing/life changing experiences with. And to go head to head against that is...intimidating to say the least.

I'm glad that PS is here, but it's not really fun to talk about a bad experience you've had, especially when its about something that you're emotionally invested in, and potentially make yourself a target for...flaming. People have good experiences and people have bad experiences. I just always remember how the thread with one girl's (I can't remember her SN right now!) engagement ring from Leon went (5ish ct diamond--I think a cushion, encrusted in pave) and I think she ended up leaving PS because of the way she was treated...can't say I blame her.

 

[Indylady]

Another example of why Pricescope is referred to as "PMScope" in many many arenas.

More Chinese-made halo rings with pink stones for everybody! Whee!!!!

Edit: And all of you who have taken free stones from Dana in the past, well you can return those if you really think Dana is such a lame businessman and person.

Ironic.

 

[LD]

I prefer people to discuss the good and the bad - it's a learning curve for us all - there's no need for anybody to be flamed. I think the majority of posters can assess information and be unbiased but there are some that rush to defence of certain vendor(s) and perhaps it's not warranted and their view is biased. I find that wholly unacceptable. I'm glad that Dana posted so that people have had an opportunity to see "both sides" and it was interesting when NSC tried to do the same with what I can only conclude to be dire results for themselves!!!

The vast majority of posters in this thread have given balanced views and expressed admiration for both Chrono and Dana which is very refreshing.

Each transaction is different and there will (hopefully) be 100 great transactions to every 2 or 3 bad ones. When the balance starts getting tipped the other way it's great that people can come on here to talk about it and it acts as a potential warning flag for others. Nothing wrong in that at all.

 

[Arkteia]

+1 to both of you. Those who have NEVER ran a business, have no clue what it takes make it profitable. It could take years to do so.Crasu... I think your comment had good intentions, but I find it funny how a consumer can suggest to a business owner to be generous/charitable with their goods.
My husband and I own a small business and it gets harder and harder to run mostly due to the nature of the business, (Automotive Repair Shop), economy, and competition. Every day we get someone to try to finagle something out of us. I kid you not! And many times it is the person with the deepest pockets who try to take advantage of us. We do our best to make every one of our customers happy, but it is not entirely possible to do so. The very people whom we jump over backwards for and don't make very much $$ (if any!) are often times the type of personality we can't please to save our soul! I am not saying that about you Chrono... but think for a moment about the entire situation and was it worth getting so upset over? I do think Dana tried to meet you to the point that it put him in a compromising position. ...and did I understand that you were making an offer on something that you have never seen? I have had a few emails back and forth with Dana awhile back and thought he was the nicest, generous lapidary I have met. He offered... without me even asking, to split a parcel up. He didn't know me from Adam. People like that genuinely love their business and want to make the customer happy and earn their business, but you can't expect him to give his business away. This is his living and this is what he does to support his family. I am sure that his profitability is a very low percentage especially in this market, there are not many people buying gemstones. I do hope that you both can at least shake hands and make-up. I hate to see such nice people have a bit of a communication snafu.

No, Cushioncutnut, I was not advising Dana how to run his business. Perhaps it was not a good idea to post it on the PS, and I was totally joking when I made a comment about ebay, but I just hoped my irony was not lost on him.

I was not making any offers. Strangely enough, I am not even angry with him (although I should be livid, and most of you, probably, would be). I just could not understand how someone can promise something, say that he is in the process of working at it, then cut for someone else while still holding the first person on bait and saying that he is planning to work at her project? I understand about the difficult position, I understand that any businessman wants to expand his list of customers, I understand that Chrono is a prestigious customer and that he wanted to do a better business... See the result? She is angry and doubtfully will ever work with him, I understand that I can not rely on his promises...

But my unhappiness is not because of this stone. I have been waiting for another stone which was offered to me (I did not ask for it - Dana offered it), I was shown the rough, told that he was starting to cut that stone... then silence and no answer to my questions about that stone. I have been waiting for many months and set some money aside, I could have used it on Tan's spinels, they were cheaper then, or any other project.

PS-ers did you really take my e-bay joke seriously? I am just baffled how a person can get himself in such a deep mud with all nice words about liking us all and "it pays to be nice" (that was to me - surely it pays... ).

I know why you all defend Dana. I know he sometimes has decent rought, but I have a feeling it is not only because of the stones. From your postings I feel that many of you have a genuine liking of him. I have mixed feelings about him. These days, you have to have teeth, nails and iron will to run a business. Dana is a businessman who is overwhelmed with good intentions. And yes, his prices are sometimes low. And he is likely not doing so well. But you can not keep the other person waiting without intending to fulfil the promise. There were dozens of ways to explain the situation to me since apparently he knew me, I am not a vendor and to me it is not business. The way it happened - sorry, MoZo - I was treated like a total idiot, and I am not even commenting on what I got today...

And since I do not want the other stone either (and maybe he still has the rough, so you can call him)... iLander, may I ask you the specs of your emerald? Maybe I can have more laugh today.

In hindsight - maybe it is good that you and MoZo made these postings... It tells me there is a lot of goodness in both of you.
Me, I am just going to add "it pays to be nice" to my lexicon. And try to be nice. And not post jokes meant for one person where no one but this person can understand them. And drop my communication with vendors if I see which way things are going.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

This is how it was supposed to work:

Gene mentioned to me in an email that he had some pink spinel rough.

I wrote right back and asked him what size and price range did he think it would be when cut.

He wrote right back and said probably around $1200, give or take a couple of hundred.

I said that was outside my price range, but I'd like to see it just for hoots, before it was sold. Just for drooling.

That was that.

He didn't take 2 months to respond, nor did I have an unexpressed price in mind.

Prompt, complete, communication tends to solve problems before they start

And this is how it should work. Clear expectations, and fast communication. The last 10 years or so of my former career were spent running Professional Services groups in a major computer firm. Scoping projects, setting expectations and managing delivery are drilled into me.

If someone is serious enough to contact me about custom work, they should be able to know quickly what I can deliver, what it should cost, and when it should be ready. Things happen, but good communication along the way is critical.

I had a commission a while ago, where we agreed that the finished gem needed to be within certain dimensions. If it was, she committed to buy. The rough had some problems, and was the only one I had in that size range. It finished to a beautiful gem, but smaller than we'd agreed. I offered a lower price, but the client really needed the size to match her existing stones.

I put the stone into inventory and refunded her deposit. She was sad not to have it work out, but understood that there are things outside my control, and got her money back with no hassles.

None of this is rocket science (or at least my husband, a former rocket scientist doesn't think so but it does require good business and good communication skills.

Lisa- I find your second post(above) in rather poor taste. You seem to be posting to point out the shortcomings of another vendor and to promote yourself as more "professional". While your first post about how you do business would be marginally acceptable in a dispute between another vendor and customer, this second one is of poor judgement especially since you are a direct competitor of Dana's.

As a cutter you should know quite well the uncertainty in determining the final properties of a cut gem from the rough. If it is your model to assume those risks or to provide a range of prices to the customer based on that uncertainty that is fine but that is your way of doing business and shouldn't be imposed on others.

Really this community is so unreal sometimes it is astounding to me how far it deviates from normal vendor/customer interactions. Pricescopers are the most agressive, demanding, bargain hunting group probably anywhere in the worldand this thread is a prime example. That mentality is great and we as consumers help out each other but it should not be taken too far. I am all for consumer rights and education, but this thread crosses a line for me and I don't feel Dana's rights should be trampled either nor does he deserve a black mark for this failed transaction.

Chrono I hold you in high regard and you have been extremely helpful to me in past threads, but even so you have no right to push a vendor to sell you something at a lower price than they are comfortable. Until you have signed a contract or put down a deposit at an agreed price you have no rights, no right in a legal sense, no moral or implicit rights, and really using this thread as leverage or to win favour in the court of public opinion is not helping. This thread has gone on long enough and I'm not surprised that Dana doesn't appreciate all the jurors who have seen fit to pass judgement on his business as a result.

Colored Gemstone cutters are often artisans, collectors, and are often quite sensitive about their stones. It doesn't surprise me in the least that when insults are being thrown and two sides are too far apart on price that communication is shut down. If you want to very politely apologize to Dana privately for this thread and offer him closer to his offering price I'm sure a deal can be made, however, if you are still
too far apart on price than I think this issue should be dropped with no hard feelings. You are both prominant members of this community and this kind of conflict is unproductive at this point.

 

[cellentani]

Cell, I wasn't saying that people were flaming Chrono, but more the talk of flaming in general that's going on over here. It's unpleasant to air a bad experience about a vendor that so many other people have had good/great/amazing/life changing experiences with. And to go head to head against that is...intimidating to say the least.

I'm glad that PS is here, but it's not really fun to talk about a bad experience you've had, especially when its about something that you're emotionally invested in, and potentially make yourself a target for...flaming. People have good experiences and people have bad experiences. I just always remember how the thread with one girl's (I can't remember her SN right now!) engagement ring from Leon went (5ish ct diamond--I think a cushion, encrusted in pave) and I think she ended up leaving PS because of the way she was treated...can't say I blame her.

Ah, okay then. I think though, that most of the talk of flaming on this thread is more the 'everyone might not agree with my comments so please don't flame me' chatter.

I readily agree with you that it's a difficult decision to publicize a negative experience, particularly if it involves an established, well-liked vendor. One must weigh whether such a post would be largely gratuitous, or if it has any real benefit to the community.

crasru, I'm not sure what you're saying. You seemed to imply that Dana cut a stone for Chrono before he finished a stone promised to you (even though Dana didn't cut that garmet)? I don't know how most vendors work, but I've never assumed them to have a highly structured queue. In addition, no lapidary has ever made their queue transparent, so it's misguided to judge if someone jumped ahead of you. As far as having your money tied up, well, that's just the nature of the game - frankly, it wasn't really tied up, you're choosing to save it for something you want. I'm guessing that at any time, you could have emailed to say that hey, I've got money to burn, and if you can't get the stone cut by X-date, then I'll have to look elsewhere.

 

[desertgem]

Colored Gemstone cutters are often artisans, collectors, and are often quite sensitive about their stones.

More true than most know! There is excitement ( and some fear)in cutting a new piece, especially if it isn't rough you are familiar with, or a new design that you haven't cut. I am not in the class of the other commercial cutters who have posted, and I certainly do not judge their business models, but I would only offer a gem and at a price range after it has been finished.

To me, each piece of rough encloses a gem, however it is up to me to realize how it wants to come out. Like a child, you wish it to mature in a perfect way, but Do they always ? Even the best cutters have been in the last stage of polishing near a close internal inclusion, and has to decide, can I finish the polish as I wish, or will the fault break the surface of the facet. Some stones actually "explode" as you are mentally patting yourself on the back at how well you are doing. Clear stones are commercially better, but I find the inclusions give their personalities more expression. Enough personalities, and it goes into my collection of happy stones, to be enjoyed and shared with others as long as I am alive. The others, nice but somewhat boring, sometimes are offered.

I think this is an internal matter, and should be left to the involved parties for any further comment. My post was just to confirm that to many cutters, commercial or collector, keeping a unique stone for a personal collection if there was no paid retainer or agreed pricing, is not out of line ( Unless it is a close beloved relative)

Jim

 

[Arkteia]

If anyone has read it - please, disregard it. I got an apologetic letter from Dana, and his situation is really difficult, especially since he has a 4-year-old child, and I can never blame anyone who has young kids for being behind! I do not care about the spessartite or whatever, I hope he gets some money, I feel sorry for him because he has his hands full because he has to look for the kid. That is all fine with me now, I almost wanted to offer him to send the kid to me for the time being because I have a 7-year old and a good nanny, forget my stupid joke!

 

[JillyC]

I feel stupid, but I don't know what it is "to get flamed". I have fantastic visions of bands renegade PSers marauding the countryside with flame throwers, popping up at people's windows and giving them the ultimate bad hair day.

I shall now go to the farmer's market and get some apples for a pie. Perhaps if the pears are nice I will get those too for a pear tart, or apple pie with pear sides. Oh Vapid one, what is your point? To supplant the bad taste in mouth with good taste in mouth of course!

LOL at apple pie with pear sides! I bet it will be gorgeous! (and delicious!)

 

[Amber St. Clare]

So, cutters have emotional attachment to their stones. Collectors do, too! Maybe even more than cutters. As to this stone, it became a "conflict stone" (please excuse the metaphor) an I am not sure that anyone now has good feelings about it. I should not give advices to cutters as to what to do with their stones, but in this specific case, I think I should. I think the best thing should be to auction it on the ebay and donate the money to some charity. Many non-PS-ers would be happy to buy it, I am sure. There are many good causes, Gary auctioned his stone for Haiti fund, and I know that Lisa helped a PS-er in need. I know that Dana has a soft spot for charities, he once offered me some stones/rough to sell on my church auction (unfortunately, people in my parish do not know much about gems) and he likes to help people in need. Many disasters happen in this world, take recent one, in Indonesia, for example.Just an idea.

wow, just wow.....once again a pricescoper being helpful and telling a business owner how to run his business.......while your heart may be in the right place as there are many disasters in this world, yes, you were right, you should not tell cutters what to do with their stones.

Dana is in business to make $. he may be a nice guy and have donated to your church auction......but this is a dispute between Dana and Chrono and how an auction on ebay is going to make Chrono ok with losing out on the stone is beyond me [of course it would give her and every other bidder the chance to get it for less than what she originally offered to pay for it, i guess]. i do not see that he has an obligation to satisfy the pricescope community and auction off this stone. just an idea.

MoZo

ps i realize my response will probably get me flamed. and while Chrono and Dana have had their problems this go around, i continue to find it presumptious on the part of pricescope participants to tell vendors how to run their businesses. this has been discussed before in other threads and yet it still amazes me.

+1 Color me amazed as well.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

Hello, I'm all about the pie with pear sides!!!!
And a bit of vanilla bean ice cream melting a little bit on top ?????
sigh
I love Autumn

 

[Lovinggems]

Chrono hugs and hope you'll find what you're looking for soon, you are a wonderful member and always willing to help others with their queries. On Gene's website he mentioned he still have a parcel of Lolindo Spessartites, not sure if the colour is the same as Fortekitty's though, but the cutting is always beautiful, if you're interested.

I haven't bought much from Dana before, all the nice things I want are always posted and sold while I'm asleep. I understand he runs a farm, looks after his ill father and young daughter, was in hospital himself earlier, used to sell to trade only but started selling on the internet 1 or 2 years ago? I don't get how he can please every single customer with their pre-orders and requests efficiently, so I don't expect it and will wait for the right gemstone to come up for sale on his website, so far I've missed out but that's ok, I think I spent enough money on gems already.

 

[Arkteia]

I made another post (which I later deleted) where I explained everything what had happened because I understand that I made things very unclear in my previous posts. I did not want to explain the situation in full but feeling that people did not understand my irony and my posts looked illogical I finally explained (almost) everything that had happened with that spessartite - from my point of view. And my post was pretty unhappy and ascerbic.

But then I got an e-mail from Dana, and I did not read it till the end because in the beginning it said about him not doing well, and his father being sick, and him working 16 hours a day, and wife working all day, and most of all, him taking care of his 4-year old kid for the whole day. I am very sensitive to issues involving kids. I just deleted the whole post before anyone read it.

Then I read the whole letter from Dana and while I still had some questions I just thought it was better to apologize just because his situation is difficult and I could discuss it another time or leave it as it is. Plus, as I understood, my irony re. ebay was totally lost on Dana, so it made no sense even to make that joke.

He is very unhappy with me now... apparently he took it very close to heart, and probably I should not have discussed it all here, and you are right, Cellentani, if someone is waiting for a long time without any result, he can always go somewhere else, but ironically, the main reason I was waiting because I knew how sensitive he was about retracted orders.

He probably feels very bad now, and I think I shouldn't have been venting my wounded pride here but just quietly discussed it with him, like MoZo suggested. Just a bad joke, sorry, fellows, no intention to run anyone's business, that was the last thing on my mind. Good that I read his e-mail before anyone read my other post, there is a small post there instead written in haste, I just had to erase what I wrote and put something instead, so disregard it, too. No big deal about the stone, I am up to my ears in spessartites, it was just a misunderstanding on both sides. I hope Dana's family does well.