Simple question...

[nytemist]

for anyone that has been through it. Is it absolutley necessary to involve attorneys in a divorce? From evrything I''ve been reading, even if there isn''t anything shared and it''s amicable, the parties should still have them. Do you really need it?

 

[lilyfoot]

I don''t know where you live, but in some counties in my state (FL), they are setting up ways to make things like this (divorce, bankruptcy, etc.) easier for people to do by themselves.

I believe you could also use a paralegal service for the paperwork, which would ensure everything is filled out correctly for the court, but would minimize the cost you''re paying out of pocket.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

nytemist, are you in MA?

When I was at the courthouse changing my name right after getting married a woman was asking about this. I was at my county's family probate court--the woman came in and asked what paperwork she needed to file a divorce. The guy gave her a stack of papers (they were all color-coded, which I thought was handy), though he said you can download the same papers online. Then BOTH parties fill out the paperwork and bring it back. Once the paperwork is filed, then they issue you a court date. If all goes smoothly at the court date, a divorce is granted in 90 days. The guy at the probate court said this was very common in marriages without children or large assets. So long as you can both agree as to how the property will be divided, it seems you can do it lawyer-free!

ETA: I was just eavesdropping on this, so obviously take it with a grain of salt. I think there was a point where something had to be notorized, but I'm not sure. I did thumb through the divorce forms because they were close to the name-change forms and I was curious what was in them. They all seemed pretty standard--dates, reason for divorce, a lot of financial information, etc. They didn't look like they'd take more than several hours to fill out. I remember thinking that the paperwork may well be the easiest part of a divorce.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/5/2010 2:01:08 PM
Author:nytemist
for anyone that has been through it. Is it absolutley necessary to involve attorneys in a divorce? From evrything I''ve been reading, even if there isn''t anything shared and it''s amicable, the parties should still have them. Do you really need it?

I''ve been through it. We did not involve attorneys. I have a friend who is an attorney and he sent me links to the forms I needed to download and file for my state. I did so, mailed them (ok, it took 3 times for me to get him to sign and return them) to my ex, filed them/paid $156, and everything was finalized within 90 days. It was actually pretty easy. So to answer your question, NO you really do not need to involve attorneys.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 5/5/2010 2:17:14 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
nytemist, are you in MA?

When I was at the courthouse changing my name right after getting married a woman was asking about this. I was at my county''s family probate court--the woman came in and asked what paperwork she needed to file a divorce. The guy gave her a stack of papers (they were all color-coded, which I thought was handy), though he said you can download the same papers online. Then BOTH parties fill out the paperwork and bring it back. Once the paperwork is filed, then they issue you a court date. If all goes smoothly at the court date, a divorce is granted in 90 days. The guy at the probate court said this was very common in marriages without children or large assets. So long as you can both agree as to how the property will be divided, it seems you can do it lawyer-free!

This sounds like what I was talking about! I haven''t been through a divorce, but it was (handily

) on the same page as the marriage license information I was looking at recently.

nytemist, sometimes I post quickly, without thinking about everything I''d like to say. I am sorry if this is a situation you are currently going through, even though you say everything is amicable, obviously this is not what anybody wants when they get married (as far as I know). I hope you are able to move through this part quickly, and start working on your future! Hugs!

 

[monarch64]

Also, depending on your state, you can waive the court appearance. We signed a waiver of that so we never had to see each other again, which imo is AWESOME.

 

[Erin]

I''m sorry that things didn''t work out. Hopefully your kitties are giving you much love.

 

[lightningbug]

I''ve been through it. We first worked out the terms of the settlement ourselves, and then each had a lawyer look through it just to make sure one party wasn''t getting a raw deal. My attorney then filed the paperwork for us. IMO it was the best of both worlds (to the extent that that can be said about a tough subject

) b/c we had the security of knowing we were on track, but we didn''t pay out the nose for it to become really contentious or ugly. It was an amicable split, though. If it hadn''t been, I would have wanted more legal support.

Good luck ~ am sorry you''re going through this. It can be hard whether you want the divorce or not!

 

[RaiKai]

Depends a lot on where you are - some jurisdictions are a bit more complicated than others. Also depends exactly what is involved - children, assets, businesses, and so on.

You don't NEED them, but it sure can help even a "desk divorce" go a lot easier (that is a non-contested divorce). And, I certainly recommend you at least have them to review any agreements you may agree together to enter into. Just because you get a lawyer involved does not mean it has to become contentious!

I just think at the very minimum someone should look it over. Sometimes couples think they have figured it all out and then a year or two later something pops up and they realized maybe they should have had someone look things over after all. I DO see this happen quite often.

DH and I both, before we ever met, had formerly separated from common-law spouses and while they were amicable splits, even in respect of the shared property, we still paid a few hundred dollars for lawyers to review our separation agreements and ensure they were all above board (and ensured our exes got independent legal advice too...so there would be no coming back down the road and arguing the agreement was not valid!). Well worth it in my opinion.

If you are concerned about costs, try and find a newer associate, paralegal or a student lawyer (if they apply in your jurisdiction). And if it is that straightforward between you, it may not be that much to get the "desk divorce" with the added security of having someone review things to ensure you are not agreeing to more than you bargained for (or less than?) (i.e. around here it can be done for $1,500 - $2,000 and you can agree to share those costs).

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 5/5/2010 3:02:45 PM
Author: RaiKai

Depends a lot on where you are - some jurisdictions are a bit more complicated than others. Also depends exactly what is involved - children, assets, businesses, and so on.

You don''t NEED them, but it sure can help even a ''desk divorce'' go a lot easier (that is a non-contested divorce). And, I certainly recommend you at least have them to review any agreements you may agree together to enter into.

I just think at the very minimum someone should look it over. Sometimes couples think they have figured it all out and then a year or two later something pops up and they realized maybe they should have had someone look things over after all. I am a lawyer, and I DO see this happen more often than you would like.

If you are concerned about costs, try and find a newer associate, paralegal or a student lawyer (if they apply in your jurisdiction). And if it is that straightforward between you, it may not be that much to get the ''desk divorce'' with the added security of having someone review things to ensure you are not agreeing to more than you bargained for (or less than?) (i.e. around here it can be done for $1,500 - $2,000 and you can agree to share those costs).

I agree with the bolded portion. It''s definitely a good idea to have an attorney at least review your paperwork (especially your written separation agreement) to make sure nothing was missed. If you want to keep the divorce as non-confrontational as possible, there are some attorneys who would be willing to act as a mediator between the two of you, instead of representing one or the other of you. Does that make sense?

With regard to the highlighted portion: A newer associate would be a great idea if cost is an issue. A paralegal (or anyone else who isn''t a licensed attorney), not so much. Paralegals cannot give legal advice. If you go to a paralegal and ask her to review your divorce documents, she can tell you if everything looks OK procedurally, but she can''t give you any substantive legal advice. If she does, she is committing the unauthorized practice of law. (Full disclosure: I''m a certified paralegal and I could lose my certification, not to mention my job, for giving legal advice.)

Nytemist, I''m sorry you''re going through this. Good luck to you, and I hope everything works out as well as can be expected. ((((HUGS))))

 

[nytemist]

Thanks for letting me know the realities of the process.

NEL- yep I''m in Mass. I''ve beeen reading online about how the process works, but I did want to know from real people what to expect in the real world.

Monarch- it''s good to know that it can work out well (or as well as can be expected) and not be ridiculously expensive.

Lily- thanks for the hugs! No, this totally is not what I expected out of marriage and I''m not considering this lightly. I''m not in the process yet, no papers have been drawn up, I haven''t even brought it up in conversation yet. I have been thinking about it seriously since about the fall.

Starset- actually they are his kitties. He and his sister had them from kittens long before we began dating. I''m the step cat-mom. I hate that things are going in this direction.

Lightningbug- if it makes sense, I don''t want to get divorced but I think it needs to happen since I really don''t think the situation will change.

I know a lot of the members who have been here for a while have seen the history of how much this relationship changed after we got married. All the plans that we talked about, places we wanted to travel to, where we would like to move to- all those discussion that couples normally have, he didn''t want to discuss anymore. A year and a hlaf into marriage we had to start seeing a therapist since emotionally my husband has checked out. All of these issues have been put out on the table, he says all the right things while in the office with her, yet doesn''t follow up once we are home. This of course has been eroding how I feel about him the more it goes on. He acts if all is well while I have been suffering to the point of getting hives sometimes. Most of last year I''ve been drinking too much, losing my apptite, feeling anxious, all wondering if he would finally get it and want to put effort into it. After one of our appointments back in November, I kind of knew that things may not work. As you know I went to Germany to see my brother back in October. I put the whole situation out of my head so I could enjoy my vacation. I came back two days before our anniversary and he told me that he missed me when I was gone, he had thought about a lot of things, made some decisions, blah, blah. We saw the therapist 3 weeks after I came back, by that point he didn''t follow through on one promise to have some serious discussions about our future. I plainly said to her I think he said whatever he needed to so that he had sex on our anniversary.

I felt lied to and used yet again, so I wrote him a letter to make him fully aware of how I feel. I then backed off so he didn''t feel like I was chasing him and forcing him to give me answers before he could think. He neve brought it up to talk about. The holidays were not a very good time and I didn''t go to his sister''s house for Christmas as I normally do, since I coudn''t sit there and pretend to be happy. For the past few months, as long as conversation is kept to what''s on tv, our work days, music and light stuff, we get along. I don''t think he even realizes how much I don''t feel much anymore. Our last appointment was in early March and at the end she point-blank told him "you do realize that if more effort to talk and open up and resolve things, you run the risk of your wife getting fed up and leaving?" He said he clearly did that he would sit down and really talk with me. Meanwhile I would be putting more effort into planning my life whether he was in my future or not, since I''ve been putting so much energy into the us and not me. She said rather than make the next appt. at that time, to call her when significant changes happened. Two weeks after that last appt., I asked him if he had been thinking alot about what was discussed. He said not really. That pretty much made my mind up.

Sorry this got so long. I haven''t been posting about what''s been going on since it''s been the same for two years. We''ve been roommates and I have made the promise to myself to stop being so upset over something that can''t change. Focusing on making me happy.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/5/2010 3:14:59 PM
Author: nytemist

I felt lied to and used yet again, so I wrote him a letter to make him fully aware of how I feel. I then backed off so he didn't feel like I was chasing him and forcing him to give me answers before he could think. He neve brought it up to talk about. The holidays were not a very good time and I didn't go to his sister's house for Christmas as I normally do, since I coudn't sit there and pretend to be happy. For the past few months, as long as conversation is kept to what's on tv, our work days, music and light stuff, we get along. I don't think he even realizes how much I don't feel much anymore. Our last appointment was in early March and at the end she point-blank told him 'you do realize that if more effort to talk and open up and resolve things, you run the risk of your wife getting fed up and leaving?' He said he clearly did that he would sit down and really talk with me. Meanwhile I would be putting more effort into planning my life whether he was in my future or not, since I've been putting so much energy into the us and not me. She said rather than make the next appt. at that time, to call her when significant changes happened. Two weeks after that last appt., I asked him if he had been thinking alot about what was discussed. He said not really. That pretty much made my mind up.

Sounds like my ex-common-law relationship (minus him not even be willing to go to therapy - though I was going). I felt I was putting so much energy into us...with nothing coming from his side but apathy....there would be glimpses of hope now and then....and then nothing. I loved him and cared about him greatly....but I was tired of living like we were roommates. I was tired of feeling so lonely WITH someone! There was not even any sex the last year!

It was very difficult to leave...but what a relief off of my shoulders! I had no idea how much pressure I was putting myself under until I left. I was so emotionally drained and burnt out. Life got dramatically better immediately. We still talk now, and then but we have most definitely both moved on with our lives with new partners (I myself am married) and I don't have any regrets. It *could have been different* in a lot of ways, but it wasn't, it isn't, and I for one feel absolutely blessed with how things are today.

It sounds like you are at, or at least very near, that point of no return too. I think you sound very similar to me....just drained. And ready for some light in your life again. I encourage you to keep seeing your own therapist.

Since you have not even talked to him about it yet...and have no idea how amicable it may or may not be yet....I would definitely recommend legal advice/counsel.

 

[nytemist]

That''s how I was for a long time, feeling like there was 500 punds sitting on me all the time. I spent way too much time thinking what was wrong with me that I wasn''t worth it even though I''m married to him. There has been no sex since our anniversary, it''s only been once since last June. He tried to pick an argument about that a few months ago and I told him I wanted it with someone who loved me. He seemed totally shocked by that, like he really doesn''t get how bad it is.

Most of the last year was pretty bad for me. Nothing was fun anymore. Like I couldn''t feel happy, it wasn''t in me. Even if he suggested going bowling or laying pool, thigns I love, it wouldn''t be fun. I have to admit that this was a big reason why I didn''t go to the last couple of Boston GTG''s. I really would have brought everyone down and I didn''t want to inflict that on a good time. I''m hoping to make the next one though!

I began seeing my own therapist a little oer a year ago. She has been great for me, reminding me that I am stronger than this. I''ve never been one to put up with B.S, like my father. It was a litghtbulb moment when she asked what would my dad think of how things are? I knew this wasn''t how it should be and that question really made me face it, that feeling of embarrassment if we do split, feeling like a failure and thinking I must have been dumb to believe him in the first place when dating. She also said if I''m truly ready to end it, explain every detail of why on paper and sit there while he reads it. It''s already 8 pages long. he will get it the day I move out. I haven''t talked him about divorce yet since I''m not quite ready to leave. I have to save some money until I can rent.

Also, I was thinking it could be relatively drama free, since it doesn''t seem like he feels anything and doesn''t like to confront anything difficult. Plus the only shared asset is a bank CD in both of our names. He never added my name to his condo, his car or the bills.

 

[LAJennifer]

Nytemist, I don''t have any advice regarding divorce - but I want you to know that I wish you much happiness for your future.

 

[Porridge]

You must be exhausted Nytemist. I remember reading some of your earlier posts about this, and I''m sorry to hear the situation hasn''t improved. I hope things get better for your and you get to do everything you wanted to do.

 

[lyra]

I remember your story too. You really did give it your best. I''m sorry you''re going through this, but I have faith that the future will see you much happier on your own. Take care and good luck.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 5/5/2010 5:35:41 PM
Author: lyra
I remember your story too. You really did give it your best. I''m sorry you''re going through this, but I have faith that the future will see you much happier on your own. Take care and good luck.

Ditto, well remember your story. Wishing you all the best going forward. Hugs!!!!

 

[luckynumber]

sorry to hear about your divorce

all the best for your future

 

[somethingshiny]

Sorry about your situation. I hope you''re able to move forward into a much happier life.

btw-my sis is another that had an amicable divorce with no attorneys. They even had to work out custody for their child and did it on their own.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

nytemist, you have done everything you can. You went to counseling, you let him have his space, you''ve tried to speak with him, you have been very patient. It sounds like it''s been a long time since you''ve even been sad about it--all evidence that leaving is the best thing for you to do is put this in your past. We are all here for you!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I don''t have any useful advice but wanted to let you know how sorry I am things didn''t work out. I know you have been unhappy for awhile so welcome to the new chapter of your life.

 

[zoebartlett]

Nytemist,

I''m sorry you''re going through this. I know things have been rough for a long time. Thinking of you!

 

[ksinger]

Nytemist,

Been there, done that. Even reasonably amicable is very very difficult, so my sympathy to you. You really will get through it all OK.

My divorce, admittedly many years ago now, had no lawyers. He wanted me to "go down with him and do the papers", but I made HIM do all that. (I was tired of "taking care" of things, and told him that if he wanted it done NOW, he''d better quit waiting for me and do it his d*** self. LOL! So much for amicable eh?) Anyway, nothing was contested, and we had no kids, so it really was just a matter of filling out a few papers and both of us signing and then he went down to court and finished it. I didn''t bother. I was DONE by then, you know?

Of course I can''t answer for your locale, but I know that it can be done some places. So I hope you guys can do it where you are too, because lawyers seem to make tempests where none may actually be. It''s how they make their money after all. It''ll be less stressful if you do it yourself...

Best of luck in your new adventure. It''ll be good, truly...

 

[PumpkinPie]

nytemist - I''m sorry you''re going through this

I have heard of divorces that did not require attorneys - in fact, I happened across a "file it yourself divorce kit" at my local library once.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I''m sorry you''re feeling like this - I just want to add that even though you feel amicable, once he finds out it may no longer be an amicable proceeding. You would know better than I of course, but it''s hard to tell how someone is going to react to that sort of news.

 

[megumic]

Date: 5/5/2010 3:55:50 PM
Author: nytemist


Also, I was thinking it could be relatively drama free, since it doesn''t seem like he feels anything and doesn''t like to confront anything difficult. Plus the only shared asset is a bank CD in both of our names. He never added my name to his condo, his car or the bills.

I''m sorry you''re going through this. I just wanted to add in some legal info for you.

Just because your name is not on the condo, car or bills does not mean you''re not entitled to equitable distribution of the marital property. (Equitable does not mean equal shares, but it can.) I mean, perhaps you don''t want to bother with any of that, but if your income contributed to the mortgage, you should walk away from the marriage with every cent you contributed to the marriage, and possibly more depending on your financial situation.

I recommend sitting down with an attorney for a consultation (some will do it free). BEFORE you go ahead and do the divorce on your own, I think it''s important to know your rights and what you''re entitled to take away from the marriage, and then you can at least make an informed decision about whether you want to do it yourself or have the assistance of an attorney. At the very very very least, I would have an attorney look over any sort of document you sign. If one thing is off, it could turn the whole agreement on its head.

All the best.

 

[nytemist]

I do really thank you for the positive vibes. I''m hoping that by the fall, I should be able to start the headache of apartment hunting.

Megumic, he bought the condo before we got married and we didn''t live together beforehand. He was given a portion of his inheritance to buy it, so there wasn''t a mortgage. Same with the car. At the beginning I was going to pay half of the bills but he said I didn''t need to. I guess that was a warning right there of things to come. He did resist combining money so let the issue drop. Once he felt that I was so fed up, then he suddenly wanted to combine money and all that.

At this point I''m feeling better. It sounds weird, but ever since I told myself to just let it all go and stop being so upset, let myself mourn it, I''ve been much better. Everyday I remind myself to not take anything he says or does personally anymore since none of it matters anymore; the marriage is over. I''ve had to finally just deal with the fact that he doesn''t want to be married, no matter what he says. It''s much easier now to be civil and friendly now that I don''t expect anything from him anymore. I now see him as someone I live with, though it sucks that we still have to share the same bed. We have no guest room or room for a couch I can''t sleep anywhere else.

Since I changed, now he is being unbelievebly nice and sweet to me. Would be great if it meant something to him. Too little, too late. I just can''t believe someone can be this oblivious.

 

[Erin]

I''m glad you''re moving forward. Don''t ever fall victim to the sweet and nice guy. He is not acting that way because he wants to change or is afraid of losing you or anything moving in the right direction. It''s guilt plain and simple.

Good luck on finding an apartment in NYC!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/6/2010 7:25:21 AM
Author: megumic

Date: 5/5/2010 3:55:50 PM
Author: nytemist


Also, I was thinking it could be relatively drama free, since it doesn''t seem like he feels anything and doesn''t like to confront anything difficult. Plus the only shared asset is a bank CD in both of our names. He never added my name to his condo, his car or the bills.

I''m sorry you''re going through this. I just wanted to add in some legal info for you.

Just because your name is not on the condo, car or bills does not mean you''re not entitled to equitable distribution of the marital property. (Equitable does not mean equal shares, but it can.) I mean, perhaps you don''t want to bother with any of that, but if your income contributed to the mortgage, you should walk away from the marriage with every cent you contributed to the marriage, and possibly more depending on your financial situation.

I recommend sitting down with an attorney for a consultation (some will do it free). BEFORE you go ahead and do the divorce on your own, I think it''s important to know your rights and what you''re entitled to take away from the marriage, and then you can at least make an informed decision about whether you want to do it yourself or have the assistance of an attorney. At the very very very least, I would have an attorney look over any sort of document you sign. If one thing is off, it could turn the whole agreement on its head.

All the best.

Certainly I agree that people deserve to leave with what they feel comfortable with BUT I do not agree that there should be this entitlement whether legal or not. Sometimes it just isn''t worth it to keep dragging things out because you think you should get back every cent you put into the marriage. Why keep investing time and energy, period???

Sorry for the threadjack, Nytemist, and Megumic I just used your post as an example but my response isn''t directed toward you, it''s just a general comment.

I could have and maybe should have gotten an attorney involved in my divorce. I might have been better off financially, but it would most likely have cost me a lot more emotionally and mentally than any monetary gain I might have received or been entitled to. I just wanted to walk away with my dignity and self-worth. It made no sense to me to devote any further time and energy to a person who had taken pretty much everything else I had to give. Once I''d decided it was done, that was it, and although it wasn''t amicable at least we were able to get it done without much further drama.

 

[nytemist]

I agree with you Monarch. I think sometimes people will drag it out when there is a lot of moeny invovled, ot if someone made all their money after marriage and the orther was a stay at home parent or something.

I can honestly say the only thing we ever combine money for is when we go grocery shopping or to a restaurant. Even if one of us uses a card, the other will give cash to them. I''m leaving with what I brought when I moved in or bought while I was there since husband has no use for them. Like candle holders, wine glasses, sheets- those are things he really does not care about, so he won''t miss them. He totally is not the type to want to keep such things just to be spiteful. Well, the bed would be an issue. The one he had when I moved in was crap and after two years I had to get a new one. He didn''t care about it, so to make myself happy I got a really nice platform bed with a memory foam mattress (not Tempurpedic way too much) He said he would give me half for it, but I told him don''t bother.

Starset, unfortunately I don''t know if I will ever make it to NYC, unless I win the lottery.

Just moving to somewhere T accessible that I can afford would be a great thing.

I''ve been reading a lot of online forums about separations/divorce when I should be working. I feel odd since most people posting are so angry or there has been cheating or abuse. I don''t even feel angry. I mean I have felt resentful for quiet a while, but even that went away.