The J prejudice why the haters?

[MichelleCarmen]

The woman is probably just a very unhappy person and taking it out on you.

She is suppose to be selling jewelry and you brought in a diamond from another place which puts her on the defensive. And, that plus her inexperience at seeing well-cut J stones impacts her attitude. Recently I was in a store and the gal (believe it or not) showed me her eng. ring and told me it was an I color and looked better than many of their colorless stones because it was cut better. A few B&M stores know better. . .others do not.

 

[Natylad]

What a terrible and rude behaviour and what an ignorant...

Well cut J''s look amazing...

Actually, i''ve never seen an excellent cut, eye clean diamond of ANY color that didn''t look amazing...
I wear an E and i like the snow white look of it. But i was also amazed the other day when i saw in person an August Vintage cushion in L...I just couldn''t take my eyes off of it...
Every color gives to a diamond a unique "personality" and a beauty of its own and i can''t swallow the fact that a person who sells diamonds wouldn''t think this way too...
You''d better ignore the insane comments and reactions of that ignorant and focus on enjoying your beautiful stone!!!

 

[nicstn]

Thanks guys for the J support! We need some J pics posted here in this thread. So any J lovers post away lol. I would love to see some other well cut beautiful Js.

I am going to complain to the manager once I have my stone all set, then i will walk back in there and let there jaws drop. In this economy anyone w/ a attitude like that has to be insane lol.

I will post pics of my J once it is set. Right now it''s off to GIA to get laser inscribed for extra safety. I''m so excited and know I made a good choice thanks to all the help here!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/3/2010 12:39:35 PM
Author: MC
The woman is probably just a very unhappy person and taking it out on you.

She is suppose to be selling jewelry and you brought in a diamond from another place which puts her on the defensive. And, that plus her inexperience at seeing well-cut J stones impacts her attitude. Recently I was in a store and the gal (believe it or not) showed me her eng. ring and told me it was an I color and looked better than many of their colorless stones because it was cut better. A few B&M stores know better. . .others do not.

LOL, if I worked for a mall jeweler and had to sell their stuff with a straight face I would probably be unhappy too!

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 2/3/2010 1:49:43 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 2/3/2010 12:39:35 PM

Author: MC

The woman is probably just a very unhappy person and taking it out on you.

She is suppose to be selling jewelry and you brought in a diamond from another place which puts her on the defensive. And, that plus her inexperience at seeing well-cut J stones impacts her attitude. Recently I was in a store and the gal (believe it or not) showed me her eng. ring and told me it was an I color and looked better than many of their colorless stones because it was cut better. A few B&M stores know better. . .others do not.

LOL, if I worked for a mall jeweler and had to sell their stuff with a straight face I would probably be unhappy too!


Wink

Wink,

I know you know this but just because a store is located in a mall doesn’t make them or their merchandise bad nor does it mean that their staff is ignorant any more than the fact of a store doing business online makes them a ripoff. Encouraging people to stereotype mall jewelers is no more fair than the B&M folks stereotyping Internet jewelers. Each store and each deal deserves to be evaluated on their own merits (or lack thereof).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Jim Summa]

You know, as a B&M, I do take offense with the generalization that knowledge is low at B&M’s. In the same way, PS features some extraordinary knowledgeable Internet-vendors, but this does not reflect the average knowledge of all the Internet-vendors out there.

I must admit when choosing a B&M randomly, chances are high that one will encounter such examples of rudeness and lack of knowledge.

Like Paul already hinted at, it also affects badly on part of my business. As an example, I have sold numerous diamonds with colors lower, sometimes far lower than J in the past years, and consumers love them if they come with the best cut-quality. Still, with consumers generally visiting several stores before making their decision, I have sometimes lost a sale to a competitor who instilled fear about the customer’s preference for a lower color stone in my store.(that stone has to be ugly, it is yellow!) It is definitely frustrating to see that in these cases, knowledge and service do not win over repetition of untruths.

 

[spoogenet]

Now this is slightly shifting paces, but at what point does a cutter realize what color of a stone he''s working with? Do they start off having a good idea it''s in a particular color range, and then decide what to do with it from there?

For example, I''ve heard of some large stones with lots of inclusions that could be recut to a lower carat weight, but with the increase in clarity grade would be worth more.

Thanks,
b

 

[WinkHPD]

Neil,

Both you and Jim Summa are correct and I was out of line. There are some people that just rub me the wrong way and I made a sarcastic comment as that clerk is obviously one of them. I obviously woke on the wrong side of the bed this morning or I would not have spoken so even in jest.

It is too late to edit my comment, so I will simply apologize for it.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/3/2010 4:00:38 PM
Author: spoogenet
Now this is slightly shifting paces, but at what point does a cutter realize what color of a stone he''s working with? Do they start off having a good idea it''s in a particular color range, and then decide what to do with it from there?

For example, I''ve heard of some large stones with lots of inclusions that could be recut to a lower carat weight, but with the increase in clarity grade would be worth more.

Thanks,
b

Spoogenet,

The cutter will usually have an idea before he starts cutting, and yes, there are times when a smaller stone will be more valuable with a higher clarity grade.

Sometimes the cutter will think one thing and yield another. At some point in the past Paul Antwerp posted a thread about a parcel that he bought that almost every stone finished a color or clarity grade lower than anticipated yielding some fantastic values for his clients, but loosing money for him in the process.

Fortunately for Paul, his partner Lieve is VERY good at having a good idea as to what the diamond will be, color and clarity grade both. Most companies will have someone who does this estimation for them full time. This is done quickly before bidding on a parcel of gems, and at much greater length after the parcel is acquired.

Paul tells me that he and Lieve have about one minute per gem to make these estimations prior to bidding on a parcel. At least I believe that is the time he told me. I may be off a little, but I know it is an incredibly short time to make judgement calls that will determine the gain or loss on a parcel. If you are off the wrong way, you will bid too much and get the parcel. If you are off the other way you will not bid enough and not get the parcel. Either way you loose.

Wink

 

[Jim Summa]

Wink,
I know you are one of the good guys...no apology necessary.

 

[denverappraiser]

Wink,

No worries. I knew you didn''t mean it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 2/3/2010 4:12:52 PM
Author: Wink
At some point in the past Paul Antwerp posted a thread about a parcel that he bought that almost every stone finished a color or clarity grade lower than anticipated yielding some fantastic values for his clients, but loosing money for him in the process.


Wink

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/38/1/The-intricacies-and-risks-of-diamond-cutting.aspx

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 2/3/2010 12:35:23 PM
Author: purrfectpear

The next time a sales agent asks you how much you paid, ask them how much they make and what do they weigh

 

[Karl_K]

back on topic:
When I first joined PS even here J colored RB diamonds were looked down on a bit.
As diamond prices rose they became more accepted and more people looked at them with fresh eyes.
Budgets rose way slower than the sharp increase in diamond prices since then (they dropped some but are still a lot higher) and more people looked at them in person and liked them and the attitudes changed.
It is a reasonable compromise to make for a larger size in RB''s and if not particularly color sensitive also in other shapes.
Some people just love the slightly tinted stones and they have the pleasure of playing in the klmn range and saving even more.

 

[4ever]

When I was looking locally to compare the prices to buying online I visited a couple of B&M''s. I told them I didn''t want to go lower then a K. One wouldn''t sell stones lower than I colour, one told me that a K would be "almost brown" and one told me it made no sense to be looking for a low coloured stone in an ideal cut. *sigh* I bought the pendant from BGD in the end.

 

[Lula]

I have owned a D (sent it back, the color did not look good on my skin and the cut was not what I thought it would be).

Then I switched to Crafted by Infinity (from Wink) and I''ve owned a J, an M, and now an I. They were all beautiful, and I got compliments on all of them. Cut makes all the difference.

 

[Lula]

It looks like I accidently cut off the last part of my response. When I owned my J, not one person (jewelers or anyone else) thought the stone looked yellow; and no one made any negative comments about it being a J.

When I owned my M, many, many people complimented me on the color. They knew it was not a white diamond, but they could also see the sparkle, so most of the time they would say things like "Oh, I love your ring; is that a champagne/cognac colored diamond?" There is more marketing out there (I noticed it a lot over the holidays) for "chocolate-colored" diamonds, but these are distinctly different, in my understanding, from "lower colors" like M, N, O, etc., diamonds.

I do think some stores have a tendency to subtlely, or not so subtley, push what they carry, to convince you that you should buy from them. In some cases, the sales associates seem to feel that insulting whatever it is you're wearing and/or considering is a good sales tool. This is just poor sales technique in my opinion. When I worked in sales, we were taught to educate the customer about why what we carried was a superior (I worked in high-end clothing boutiques all through college) without insulting the competition or the customer or his/her taste. It can be done. And, btw, I can't tell you how many times I sold thousands of dollars worth of merchandise to people who looked like they couldn't pay for a cup of coffee. I learned quickly to never, ever make assumptions about appearance and wealth!

 

[kenny]

Hate is a pretty strong word.

I think their inexcusable behavior is just the result of you not buying from them, not J-hate.

 

[rhbgirl24]

Isn't it funny how people working in the stores are actually educated? I sometimes feel bad for them, but mostly I feel bad for the people buying from them....

 

[tberube]

I''ve tested myself on several different occasions, and I have found that I truly prefer warmer colored stones to the icy ones. I can''t even really tell you why - they just speak to me more. I also generally prefer antique-looking jewelry to clean, modern jewelry so that could have something to do with it.

Anyway, what I am saying is that I''d probably love your J...and we''re not the only ones.

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 2/3/2010 3:20:53 PM
Author: Jim Summa
You know, as a B&M, I do take offense with the generalization that knowledge is low at B&M''s. ... I must admit when choosing a B&M randomly, chances are high that one will encounter such examples of rudeness and lack of knowledge. Like Paul already hinted at, it also affects badly on part of my business. ... It is definitely frustrating to see that in these cases, knowledge and service do not win over repetition of untruths.

Jim, your post got me thinking. For new diamond buyers (like myself), it''s particularly difficult not to form that kind of generalization precisely because those chances are so high. I know it''s one I''ve made on several occasions, but it is just that - a generalization. I''d be more than willing to shed the generalization AND pay a premium to go to a B&M in my area if I knew they were willing & able to provide superior knowledge, service, and products... but channels to find this knowledge seem extremely limited. I''m sure differentiating your store from the ~50 others within a 5 mile radius from you is a challenge you face every day. I think Neil said it best, each store really needs to be evaluated on its own merits... but when time (especially time away from an intended) is limited, how is this possible?

In any case, it''d probably be safe to say the generalization doesn''t mean we hate B&M''s... it''s just that we hate that most of them don''t hold a candle to the higher standard around here.

To the OP: Ditto Neil (again) with the turnip. I think you should bring your J back and pretend it''s a different stone just to see

 

[nicstn]

I agree it is all a matter of preference and cut. My J is cut well it shows like a H or I. I also think I prefer the lower colors, to each there own.

I just inherited these well cut J stones from my grandmother''s 5 year wedding band. My mom surprised me to use for my wedding band. Sadly 2 of the stones are chipped and no good but three are fine. They are .25 each and very well cut. I''m going use them in my wedding band and have them reset. It will go along nicely w/ my J 1.78 center stone. Can''t wait to get it and post pics! I truly lucked out I could never afford a diamond wedding band and know I will have the most special one made from my grandmothers 5 year wedding band. See pics below!

 

[nicstn]

Thinking of resetting in this

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/4/2010 11:19:22 PM
Author: nicstn
I agree it is all a matter of preference and cut. My J is cut well it shows like a H or I. I also think I prefer the lower colors, to each there own.

I just inherited these well cut J stones from my grandmother''s 5 year wedding band. My mom surprised me to use for my wedding band. Sadly 2 of the stones are chipped and no good but three are fine. They are .25 each and very well cut. I''m going use them in my wedding band and have them reset. It will go along nicely w/ my J 1.78 center stone. Can''t wait to get it and post pics! I truly lucked out I could never afford a diamond wedding band and know I will have the most special one made from my grandmothers 5 year wedding band. See pics below!

Absolutely *gorgeous*, Nicstn!

 

[nicstn]

I like this too. What u guys think it cost to have made?

 

[Jim Summa]

Tony,
I guess I can say we are even, your post has me thinking also. Maybe I can add some insight from my side of the case to start.

This past week a young man stopped in my shop. I am located across the street from a train station and with the train running late he stopped in to kill some time and try to understand why diamonds are so expensive.
What he wanted was a 2ct. round, F color, VS clarity....he was emphatic that she did not want any flaws showing......and no yellow!
His budget would get him a H-SI1 AGS0 cut, so I know he is being realistic to a degree.
I explained to him that with a well cut stone, if he would spend more money on the cut, he would be able to choose a really gorgeous stone. He still is skeptical,but is interested in learning what I am talking about.
Now this is where it gets interesting.....I happen to have a AGS 0cut 2ct+ VS... so I show it to him in the ASET...different lighting...no lighting...outside in the cold and he is just blown away at how it jumps.
So this may be another reason to avoid your local jeweler....when he asks the price I tell him it is 25% below his budget,the reason being is that its color is L.

 

[y2kitty]

On another note, the Jewelry Exchange is kind of just bad news in general (at least the one in Woodbridge)....

 

[nicstn]

Also the Jewelery Exchange on on 4 west in Hackensack NJ can be very tricky. Most vendors I went to when shopping around are clueless and showed me all European EGL poor quality sounds for a huge mark up. I can''t say they are all bad but my experience was not good. Hence why I bought from a recommended vendor here in NYC 47th Diamond exchange where I could see all the stats, info, and pics I needed plus go in person to see. Thank god for pricescope and all the learning I did here because sadly I think most of the public is clueless and get average stones for a big markup and know nothing on cut. I now have learned now not to give to much info because the min J comes out of my mouth I see the look in their eyes if I don''t say anything most people thinks it is a H the lowest a I.