Do you like horse racing?

[cindygenit]

I certainly don''t. I was watching the Melbourne Cup today with my colleagues and I was disgusted at how many times the jockey was whipping the horse to get it to win the race...

I also heard that the horses are fed diuretics before a race to make them pee. Is that, like, animal cruelty or something? I''m sure a horse would not willingly take that stuff for sh*ts and giggles.

I''m sure there are people who will say its a harmless sport, but i find it hard to watch!

 

[MishB]

Absolutely not, it''s barbaric and cruel.

I used to love to go to the races until the 1998 Melbourne Cup. I was trackside when the favourite, a horse named Three Crowns fell and broke it''s leg a matter of metres away from where I stood. They eventually shot it, but it was the most sickening, distressing thing I have ever witnessed. People were turning away in shock and vomiting, it was so upsetting.

I''ve been completely against horse racing ever since.

 

[noelwr]

(I saw your post in the Bridal forum, so came looking for it here)

I didn't know that! man, I feel ignorant. I went to the races once about 4 years ago in York (UK), and I thought it was a great experience. everyone was dressed up, the women in their lovely summer dresses and hats. as it was a company outing we had our own private booth with drinks and food, and we had such a great time betting on the horses.

had I known what you've said, I don't think I would have gone. I don't really have anything to do with horse racing so would have no idea. I hope I didn't recommend it to someone since I've been.

 

[dragonfly411]

Oh goodness here we go. I personally have been involved with horses for about 20 years now (I know I''m young but when you''re involved... age doesn''t matter much). Horse racing is not the cruel and unusual punishment you might think. For example:

That whip..... feels like a tap compared to the spurs that some people use in other horse related sports. I have a horse that doesn''t even respond to a whip... it''s like it''s not there to him. Yes I DO think whips can be overused, but I would be more concerned if they were leaving whelts or cuts... which they are not most of the time. I know the whipping part is hard to watch, and no I don''t always approve of it, but in some cases it is also a great way to encourage the horse to open up a tad more. Some horses will respond to the site of it and give a whole extra gear.

Diuretics aren''t as commonly used as you might think, and the reason they ARE given is to keep the horse''s digestive tract and urinal tract moving well, and also to make sure they don''t stop and pee in the middle of the track. When you are loading horses in the gate, it''s a dangerous moment, they are anticipatory and they are claustrophobic. You don''t want 12 of them hanging out in there while billy bob in back is taking a pee break.... get my drift?

You have to understand too, these horses are BRED to run, they LOVE to run, they run in the pastures for play, they race each other from the time they are weanlings. They are high energy, fast, and competitive. If a horse doesn''t do well in the races, rescue groups, retirement groups or alternate focuses try to step in as often as they can to find them another job. Many race horses go on to barrel race, jump, do three day eventing, or other high energy sports. They LOVE what they do.

If you want to know about abuse of horses, go talk to the western pleasure trainers who tie their horses heads up in the air to make their necks tired, and who bleed them to reduce their energy levels. Talk to the halter trainers in certain breeds who beat their horses silly so they are afraid of the whips. Talk to the folks who threw my horse down as a baby, and sat on him to shave him

.

Unfortunately you will find this not just in horses but in other animals. Declawing cats, dog breeders who leave their dogs in tiny pens. There are always bad apples. There are good ones too. There are western pleasure trainers who work with their horses, guide them. There are halter trainers who train with peppermints

, and there are those who introduce clippers quietly and calmly. It all will depend on the person, what their motives are, and whether they are true horsemen.

I hope to goodness we don''t lose horse racing b/c of the few bad apples out there. Just like I hope we don''t lose any other horse sports. There are trainers who do right by their horses, and who are doing a fantastic job, and raising true athletes..... I mean.... could you imagine a world in which Secretariat HADN''T won the Belmont by 32 lengths? An oddball of a horse from a backyard breeder with a double sized heart and the will to run ? Can you imagine a world without Seabiscuit.... the downtrodden.... the back woods boys? Can you imagine the loss of inspiration and hope people got from those athletic animals??

Just offering my side

 

[Lorelei]

I hate horse racing.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 11/3/2009 9:47:54 AM
Author: Lorelei
I hate horse racing.

 

[somethingshiny]

Well said, dragonfly!

Of course there are those who abuse their position with animals. It''s definitely not confined to horse racing. And, generally speaking, those race horses have a good life, retire early and have companionship. A friend breaks and trains horses and used to do it for a racing company. I was with her often on that ranch and everyone truly cared about the animals.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/3/2009 9:46:22 AM
Author: dragonfly411
Oh goodness here we go. I personally have been involved with horses for about 20 years now (I know I''m young but when you''re involved... age doesn''t matter much). Horse racing is not the cruel and unusual punishment you might think. For example:

That whip..... feels like a tap compared to the spurs that some people use in other horse related sports. I have a horse that doesn''t even respond to a whip... it''s like it''s not there to him. Yes I DO think whips can be overused, but I would be more concerned if they were leaving whelts or cuts... which they are not most of the time. I know the whipping part is hard to watch, and no I don''t always approve of it, but in some cases it is also a great way to encourage the horse to open up a tad more. Some horses will respond to the site of it and give a whole extra gear.

Diuretics aren''t as commonly used as you might think, and the reason they ARE given is to keep the horse''s digestive tract and urinal tract moving well, and also to make sure they don''t stop and pee in the middle of the track. When you are loading horses in the gate, it''s a dangerous moment, they are anticipatory and they are claustrophobic. You don''t want 12 of them hanging out in there while billy bob in back is taking a pee break.... get my drift?

You have to understand too, these horses are BRED to run, they LOVE to run, they run in the pastures for play, they race each other from the time they are weanlings. They are high energy, fast, and competitive. If a horse doesn''t do well in the races, rescue groups, retirement groups or alternate focuses try to step in as often as they can to find them another job. Many race horses go on to barrel race, jump, do three day eventing, or other high energy sports. They LOVE what they do.

If you want to know about abuse of horses, go talk to the western pleasure trainers who tie their horses heads up in the air to make their necks tired, and who bleed them to reduce their energy levels. Talk to the halter trainers in certain breeds who beat their horses silly so they are afraid of the whips. Talk to the folks who threw my horse down as a baby, and sat on him to shave him

.

Unfortunately you will find this not just in horses but in other animals. Declawing cats, dog breeders who leave their dogs in tiny pens. There are always bad apples. There are good ones too. There are western pleasure trainers who work with their horses, guide them. There are halter trainers who train with peppermints

, and there are those who introduce clippers quietly and calmly. It all will depend on the person, what their motives are, and whether they are true horsemen.

I hope to goodness we don''t lose horse racing b/c of the few bad apples out there. Just like I hope we don''t lose any other horse sports. There are trainers who do right by their horses, and who are doing a fantastic job, and raising true athletes..... I mean.... could you imagine a world in which Secretariat HADN''T won the Belmont by 32 lengths? An oddball of a horse from a backyard breeder with a double sized heart and the will to run ? Can you imagine a world without Seabiscuit.... the downtrodden.... the back woods boys? Can you imagine the loss of inspiration and hope people got from those athletic animals??

Just offering my side

Actually yes I do.

The Jockey Club here takes a very dim view of any abuse of the system, and drug testing is a matter of course.

I know a lot of people involved in the sport at all levels and they all have the animals welfare as a priority. I used to ride a retired racehorse - he pulled a tendon and couldn''t race again, so he was retired to stud and I got to exercise him. Lovely horse, but boy did he like to run.

Don''t believe everything you read.

 

[jewelerman]

cruel,yes.But also consider the gambling aspect.I never waste my money or time on games of chance or gambling.Why support gambling establishments and places like the track that feed off peoples weak nature and create and promote gambling addiction and a life style that can distroy people and their familys.

 

[charbie]

Date: 11/3/2009 12:18:11 PM
Author: jewelerman
cruel,yes.But also consider the gambling aspect.I never waste my money or time on games of chance or gambling.Why support gambling establishments and places like the track that feed off peoples weak nature and create and promote gambling addiction and a life style that can distroy people and their familys.

hmmm...this statement doesn''t sit well with me.
that''s the same as saying that all bars should be shut down because alcoholics can''t control themselves. and with that being said, no alcohol should be sold at stores either, in case they might go into a grocery or liquor store and purchase some in a moment of weakness. also, posted at the tracks are the numbers for gambling addicts...which there are no AA signs posted at any of the bars I''ve ever gone to...
if that''s your opinion, that''s fine, and you are entitled to it. i just feel like that isn''t a very fair arguement.

i don''t think it is fair to punish society because of others can''t control themselves.

my husband has been going to the tracks since he was 6 weeks old. it is a hobby of his, and sure, he''s lost some money, but he''s made some as well. in the end, he has a great time, i have a great time with him. we are responsible for ourselves when we go to the track. in fact, we spent our Thanksgiving Day at Churchill Downs last year

i don''t think that horse-racing is any worse than what professional athletes do to their bodies! now, i understand that the horses don''t have a choice, but these horses are treated like superstars and as was already said- it is in their nature to race/run.

 

[dragonfly411]

to further what Charbie said, and to further combat the gamboling aspect, let''s consider the fact that horse racing wasn''t always a gamboling (at least not a money gamboling) issue. It is a competition issue for many. My horse can out run your horse. Think of match races.... which are rarely done anymore... I miss them. For some, it''s a chance to see the best run against the best. The year Real Quiet ran comes to mind... he had a horse running in the race with him that they were sure he wouldn''t beat.

 

[ursulawrite]

In the UK, The Jockey Club is mulling a ban on the use of whips. I don't think they're necessary. Every TB I've ridden has gone like a rocket with practically no use of the leg, let alone a stick. Most horses love to gallop, and the sight of a jump can work them into a frenzy too.

I don't think it's wrong to harness this natural persuasion, but I do think the racehorse community has a lot to answer for in terms of breaking horses when they're far too young, breeding TBs that are too fine-boned, and simply culling those that don't perform. Things are improving--many TBs that don't make it on the track in the UK are sold and re-trained for eventing, dressage, or simply as good all-rounders--but there's a long way to go.

 

[dragonfly411]

Ursula - now THAT is a great point, and one that I feel strongly about. I DO think the original training should be moved back a year, so they are started as late two year olds as with other breeds. I also think that the bone needs to be bred back into the thoroughbreds, in a big big big way. The reason legs are breaking is because they''re breeding "lighter" animals... they''re lighter all right... the bones can''t take the impact. It makes them virtually useless in other disciplines as well. This is part of the problem with Arabians right now too.

 

[ursulawrite]

I''d actually like to see them broken at three, turned away for a bit to mature, and then brought back into training a year later.

Sea the Stars is a nice example of what breeders should be striving for in a modern TB--athletic, lean, but strapping.

 

[dragonfly411]

ursula - Four feels late to me. Three yes, most breeds are starting showing at three years old, so I think that''s probably a fair place to start. Even jumpers are taking low jumps at three.

Going to look up your example

 

[wsu12]

It looks like I am in the minority here but I love horse racing. I find it to be absolutely fascinating and exhilarating. IMHO it is one of the most exciting sports.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 11/3/2009 2:13:22 PM
Author: charbie

Date: 11/3/2009 12:18:11 PM
Author: jewelerman
cruel,yes.But also consider the gambling aspect.I never waste my money or time on games of chance or gambling.Why support gambling establishments and places like the track that feed off peoples weak nature and create and promote gambling addiction and a life style that can distroy people and their familys.

i don't think that horse-racing is any worse than what professional athletes do to their bodies! now, i understand that the horses don't have a choice, but these horses are treated like superstars and as was already said- it is in their nature to race/run.

Really? All of them? What happens to the ones that do not get re-homed or "re-purposed" after their racing careers are over? How many of them don't?

I really know nothing about horse-racing, so these are genuine questions, perhaps better directed at DragonFly. The highlighted comment just struck me as perhaps a bit too generalized.

 

[dragonfly411]

Loves Vintage - This is something that is in the process of being covered. With the banning of meat markets in the US the hopes is the percentage of better homed horses will go up. ReRun is a fantastic program and I hope we get more and more like them. The vast majority of MARES are sold into some type of breeding home.. be it to breed appendix horses for barrels and qh racing, to thoroughbred breeders or to warmblood/sport horse breeders.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/3/2009 12:18:11 PM
Author: jewelerman
cruel,yes.But also consider the gambling aspect.I never waste my money or time on games of chance or gambling.Why support gambling establishments and places like the track that feed off peoples weak nature and create and promote gambling addiction and a life style that can distroy people and their familys.

I think gambling is like alcohol, some people abuse it, others do not.

I paid my way through university by gambling on the horses - my bookmaker told me I was his favourite client as he never had to worry about me putting down a bet I couldn''t afford. Nowadays I play poker and gamble on politics.

I don''t like games of pure chance, so I have never played a fruit machine or roulette etc. Poker, and studied gambling on the horses or politics are not games of chance - I work pretty hard at all of them and it pays off.

My husband is also a gambler - politics and poker. Also very controlled and consistently up. We fully intend to teach our daughter how to play poker and how to gamble in a responsible manner.

Our winnings have paid for a number of luxuries we couldn''t have otherwise justified.

People will gamble irresponsibly, drink irresponsibly, drive their cars irresponsibly... doesn''t mean that other people should be banned from enjoying a game poker, a glass of wine or driving a sports car.

 

[yssie]

I don't have an opinion on the gambling - that's one's own business. I do, however, have a very strong opinion on the industry in general

ETA: I used to event. Those horses were certainly treated like royalty in my neck of the woods

 

[cindygenit]

DF, i don''t watch horse racing ever.

Yesterday was my very first time actually. Despite the fact that whipping the horse doesn''t hurt them, i don''t think I can watch it again. The use of diuretics is not natural, IMO. Sure, it would be dangerous if they had to stop and pee in the middle of a race. But why do they have to race? Why can''t people just let them run in the wild, or stay in a farm? That''s what I can''t understand.

Just beacuse a horse is born and bred to run doesn''t mean they have to compete in a race.

Just my .02

 

[noelwr]

yah, now that I think about it, what I liked most about the horse racing event I attended was the gambling part.

needless to say, I am a big fan of Vegas.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/3/2009 2:13:22 PM
Author: charbie

Date: 11/3/2009 12:18:11 PM
Author: jewelerman
cruel,yes.But also consider the gambling aspect.I never waste my money or time on games of chance or gambling.Why support gambling establishments and places like the track that feed off peoples weak nature and create and promote gambling addiction and a life style that can distroy people and their familys.

hmmm...this statement doesn''t sit well with me.
that''s the same as saying that all bars should be shut down because alcoholics can''t control themselves. and with that being said, no alcohol should be sold at stores either, in case they might go into a grocery or liquor store and purchase some in a moment of weakness. also, posted at the tracks are the numbers for gambling addicts...which there are no AA signs posted at any of the bars I''ve ever gone to...
if that''s your opinion, that''s fine, and you are entitled to it. i just feel like that isn''t a very fair arguement.

i don''t think it is fair to punish society because of others can''t control themselves.

my husband has been going to the tracks since he was 6 weeks old. it is a hobby of his, and sure, he''s lost some money, but he''s made some as well. in the end, he has a great time, i have a great time with him. we are responsible for ourselves when we go to the track. in fact, we spent our Thanksgiving Day at Churchill Downs last year

i don''t think that horse-racing is any worse than what professional athletes do to their bodies! now, i understand that the horses don''t have a choice, but these horses are treated like superstars and as was already said- it is in their nature to race/run.

The thing is not all are treated like superstars, the racing industry has a high proportion of '' wastage'' with horses which don''t make the grade and not enough homes for them, so guess what happens to a proportion of those eventually....

 

[Madam Bijoux]

I used to like it until I found out how rotten the racing game is. Horses who don''t win are either sold to be turned into food or killed for insurance money. After what happened to Barbaro, I won''t watch another horse race.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2009 8:14:17 AM
Author: Madam Bijoux
I used to like it until I found out how rotten the racing game is. Horses who don''t win are either sold to be turned into food or killed for insurance money. After what happened to Barbaro, I won''t watch another horse race.

And don''t get me started on that

, how terribly these horses are treated even before slaughter, often ending up in auctions sold to the highest bidding meat man, it makes me sick that these beautiful creatures end up like that.

 

[dragonfly411]

cindy - They are bred to be athletes. Period. Imagine telling Michael Jordan "We aren''t going to do this anymore, you aren''t going to get to compete, go run around the basketball court for fun".... can you imagine? The other thing about it is, you would probably never see a horse if there were no competitions. It is part of what makes owning them fun, and there are many that DO enjoy what they do. Are you of the opinion that horses shouldn''t be ridden at all? That is how it comes off. I personally love to ride. Yes I''ve used whips, though I''m smart about them. Yes I''ve used spurs, again smart about them. Most would never do anything to hurt their horses. I would be a very miserable human being if I couldn''t go horseback riding.

I guess I just can''t imagine a world without greats like Secretariat..... I mean.... he''s the greatest animal athlete of all time. If he had just run around in a pasture, he''d never EVER have inspired as many as he did.

Every sport AGAIN will have it''s bad apples. I don''t agree with the slaughter, or the lack of homes BUT I also don''t agree with never giving an animal the chance to really show it''s stuff.

 

[Dancing Fire]

only on the days when i win

otherwise, NO!!

 

[cindygenit]

No. I think horses are meant to be ridden.

But i don''t see the need for horse racing at all. Also, if Michael Jordan was told he would have to run around the court and play basketball casually with his friends, i think he would!

We''ll just agree to disagree

.

 

[dragonfly411]

cindy - yeah agreed

I think I more meant though that it''d be disappointing to him that he couldn''t compete hehe. They feel the competitive edge as much as he would. Just to clarify that part

I will say I AM against things like the suicide race, bronc riding, and the abuse I quoted above. It all needs to stop.