Pro-pics (some issues)

[allycat0303]

Hey everyone,

I''ve got a problem. Part of my package was to have a slideshow with music for my wedding. So we met with the photographer that had created a slideshow and he showed it to us. We''ll call him M. Anyways, we looked at it quickly, and then went home. In any case, there were 7 pictures on the slideshow (there are 80 pictures in total) and I REALLY don''t like. I think I look UGLY in these pictures and they focus on my severely crooked teeth which I HAVE HUGE issues with.

When I initially met with M. he told us we could change some pictures or add more if we wanted.

So I wrote to him asking him to change 7 pictures in the slide show. His sister T. wrote back, quite firmly saying that the slideshow was a reflection of their style, creativity, and of the studio, and that they would NOT be changing the slideshow. And that these were considered to be the BEST prints of the wedding. Everything else would require our input, but not that. I get the feeling that his sister T. is the one that handles the business side of this. Here''s the thing, I REALLY hate those 7 pictures. I won''t be sending the slideshow to ANYONE. I think that''s counter-intuitive. If they want to use the slideshow as publicity, me keeping it to myself does nothing for them.

I find that annoying because we ended up paying $5500 for the photographer, and we have 150 prints which we didn''t pick. We still have 10 pictures which we DO get to pick, and a photo album where we get to pick 20 of the pictures. I think it''s a lot of money not to be THRILLED, especially since the slideshow is what we were MOST excited for, and it''s included in the contract.

I wrote an email asking that if they refuse to change the 7 pictures for other ones, could they just DELETE the 7 pictures (very nicely and apologetically). I don''t know, it sounds fair to me, but I don''t want to anger them etc so I haven''t sent the email yet. I told my husband to call her and ask nicely because he''s talked to her before, and was able to negotiate. I think such things translate better in person, then by email.

a) is it unreasonable to be asking them to change 7 pictures even if they own artistic rights on it? I''m rationalizing that it''s still MY wedding and the slideshow is included in the package. And it''s still pictures of my husband and I.

b) phone or email to address the issue? (If at all)? My husband is arguing that I should write an email and everything will be fine.

c) Holding back a payment is not possible. We''ve paid all except 500$. In cash. Which is the importance of not getting her mad. She can decide NO and I''d have no recourse.

Thanks ladies!

PS. Don''t get me wrong, the pictures are beautiful but who wants a few unflattering pictures that make you want to cringe in a slideshow meant to be sent to everyone?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think it''s perfectly reasonable to ask to have those 7 removed, and I would email first and then call if you had to. I think if you wrote a calm email explaining everything as you did here, there would be no reason for them to be angry. It''s not like you''re criticizing their skills, you''re just self conscious about certain aspects. Like you said, it''s counter productive for them to give you a product that you dislike to the point of not showing anyone!

 

[KimberlyH]

There''s no reason he shouldn''t substitute or delete those prints, your $$ paid for his work and it should be to your liking.

 

[blondebunny]

I agree with previous posters... I think you should email and state exactly *why* you want to change those pictures, not that you want to change them because you dont like how they took the pictures, but you dont like yourself in the pictures (i.e. your teeth)... Just try to get the bride side of the sister. Explain how you want to remember your pictures of you and your husband a certain way... hopefully she will be able to understand... say "What if you didnt like a certain part of yourself, would you want that displayed in something that makes you remember the happiest day of your life?" Hopefully if you get some good points in the email, she will understand... But i think you should stress that its not the way they took the pics, but you hate your teeth in the pic! Hopefully that helps... They should change them though... It''s your slideshow, not theirs, and everyone has different opinions on what they like...It just sounds like laziness to me! I hope they change it! Or maybe you can ask them if they dont want to change the picture, if they will photoshop your teeth maybe?? Just wanted to throw that out there

 

[honey22]

OMG! You paid $5500 and ended up with service like that?! And a 7 print slideshow. Sheesh, I don''t know what to say. I would approach the photog directly (maybe set up a meeting) and explain your requests.

 

[pjean]

I would send the nice email you wrote. I think the request sounds super reasonable, especially if you point out that it''s not the quality of the photos that bothers you, but rather that you''re self conscious about them. I''m hoping that the photog''s sister misunderstood something about what you wanted, ''cause otherwise her refusal is pretty weird. Either way, correspondence in writing would be the way I''d go - non-confrontational AND with a record. Perfect!

Good luck!

 

[allycat0303]

ok. I''m reading my contract over, and I''m really concerned, my plan is basically this:

Photography;

--150-4x6 premium edition prints

-Preview CD with all images 450 pxl

-Storybook 8x12, transparent cover, photographic paper, 20 pg

-10 prints up to 8x10

-Slide show

In the email she wrote to me the following:

"We will not be changing the slide show, however. Please consider this and the premium print selection as the only products of the studio where the studio gets to express their vision, creativity and style. Everything else you order in your package requires your input."

Well if you read my package, that only leaves a storybook 8X12 on photogenic paper and 10 prints up to 8 X 10! And furthur on in the email she writes that I am to choose 20 images for the storybook and they will fill in the rest. I have 150 pictures of myself and my husband, which is WAY too much. I would have picked a few of my parents, sister and brother. And I don''t want to have a photo album filled with pictures they picked which are artistically *beautiful* but don''t have anyone in my family!

If I want to buy an album for my parents and his mother, they are 400$ each. And they have to be identical. Which strikes me as being really silly.

I''m pretty upset about all this. At one point, my husband said that they offered to let us buy the cd of images for 1000$ If they are in a proper format, I would just use the pictures and make my own album on mypubisher or something. Seems like a steal at this point. At least I could choose the images I want. I was trying to use mypublisher with the preview CD images, and I am computer-stupid, but from what I understand, the pictures are not saved properly to be able to use on mypublisher (i.e low resolution?) I don''t know if the cd of all the images/negatives would be the same thing.

I don''t know if this is standard practice, but I''m shocked. I was expecting to be able to choose all of my pictures for my wedding album. In addition, for 400$ each, I figured I could pick pictures for each album. I''m not bothering with an email at this point. I''m calling Monday morning. Unless it says on the contract that they HAVE to pick all the premium prints and MOST of the wedding album specifically, I''m putting my foot down. How can you pay that much and be limited to picking 20 pictures for your wedding????????

 

[cocolaw]

i''m sorry, this is just bizarre

 

[allycat0303]

cocolaw,

I think it''s totally strange. Maybe I am completely misinterpreting her email or something. Although at the meeting I was surprised he just handed me a box of 150 printed pictures. Up to there I had seen NO wedding pictures. Although I agree the pictures he chose are stunning, there is literally: 1 with my Dad in it. 1 with my mom in it. 1 with my sister in it. 1 with my grandmother and aunt in it. None of my brother (usher), none with cousin in it (usher), no pictures of my husband with his mother. No pictures of my husband with his sister. No pictures of my husband with his other brother. It is literally, no exaggeration, 146 pictures of me and my husband. I don''t know of a bride and groom that is in LOVE with themselves to that extent. And this isn''t a small, unknown studio. It''s a really big deal studio, I saw the slideshow of one of my classmates made by this studio, and the pictures are STUNNING. But in retrospect very bride and groom centered. I just don''t know if she was happy or not with the final product. I would be ok with it though if I get to choose EVERY single photograph for my wedding album. And different one''s for each set of parent. And they change the freaking slideshow. This is crazy.

I can NOT believe that this is standard wedding photography protocol. I feel like I paid for them to express their artistic vision, and not to document my wedding day!

 

[cocolaw]

no it doesn''t look like you are misinterpreting anything. it''s just so weird to me...it seems like (and i am no photographer) that #1 concern should be giving the bride and groom what they want...and second to that would be putting an artistic touch on the pictures. they won''t let you take unflattering pictures out of the slideshow....that''s insane! i''m sorry but NO BRIDE books a photographer that refuses to allow her to remove unflattering pictures from a slideshow. and the 150 is inexcusable. i don''t know what to tell you-this is really really strange. who are these people??????????

 

[charbie]

Date: 9/27/2009 11:18:18 PM
Author: allycat0303


''We will not be changing the slide show, however. Please consider this and the premium print selection as the only products of the studio where the studio gets to express their vision, creativity and style. Everything else you order in your package requires your input.''

hmmm...call me crazy, but aren''t they expressing their vision, creativity, and style in ALL of their photographs??????? their product is their photography...meaning each photograph. not JUST the ones they have picked for you.

this sounds crazy to me. IMHO, any vendor should bend over backwards to try and make sure the bride is happy. one bad review can start a chain reaction. you have paid a LOT of money for a product they aren''t delivering. i''d let them have it.

 

[vc10um]

Date: 9/28/2009 9:51:37 AM
Author: charbie

Date: 9/27/2009 11:18:18 PM
Author: allycat0303



''We will not be changing the slide show, however. Please consider this and the premium print selection as the only products of the studio where the studio gets to express their vision, creativity and style. Everything else you order in your package requires your input.''

hmmm...call me crazy, but aren''t they expressing their vision, creativity, and style in ALL of their photographs??????? their product is their photography...meaning each photograph. not JUST the ones they have picked for you.

this sounds crazy to me. IMHO, any vendor should bend over backwards to try and make sure the bride is happy. one bad review can start a chain reaction. you have paid a LOT of money for a product they aren''t delivering. i''d let them have it.

I think you really need to stop talking to the sister on this one, and talk directly to the photographer. She seems like a roadblock, and she won''t be the one who feels like you need to be happy. The photographer himself, however, will probably be much more accomodating to your wishes. Regardless, I''d drop the $1000 on the high-res files and make your own albums. I was hearing Kodak just launched a product that''ll allow you to make your own photographer-quality albums for less...and YOU''LL get to choose your photos. It just seems ludicrous the order in which everything happened. Sorry you''re having to deal with this.

 

[tlh]

who cares about their vision and style... it wasn''t THEIR WEDDING. IT WAS YOUR WEDDING. He can use those images if he feels they are showing his style, as advertising on his site... but I think this is ridiculous. I am soo sorry you are going through this.

 

[sparkly_stars]

Usually when photographers want the "rights" to express their vision, and their creativity in selection for an overall product, it should come at a VERY minimal charge, or none at all (when someone is starting out etc)
Otherwise, they have the WHOLE day of pictures to use their "creativity". All pictures taken should reflect this.
It is absurd that she thinks they have the right to decide what YOU will use for YOUR album- when we selected ours, and were looking at all the different contracts etc, part of the "creative control" factor was for the pictures they''d chose to show potential customers and on their website...

If they get to pick 150 pictures... and tell you "you get to pick whatever other picture you want to have printed out" I am guessing this is above what your package consists of, so it sounds a BIT fishy that they''d want MORE money after spending such a large amount of money.

Anyways, I am in utter disbelief. haha
I can''t even wrap my head around it at this point, I wouldn''t even bother with a phone call- I''d be right at their studio. People hate confrontation, but in a situation like this- she better believe its not going to be THAT easy to get you to pay MORE.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/28/2009 6:10:14 PM
Author: sparkly_stars
Usually when photographers want the ''rights'' to express their vision, and their creativity in selection for an overall product, it should come at a VERY minimal charge, or none at all (when someone is starting out etc)

Otherwise, they have the WHOLE day of pictures to use their ''creativity''. All pictures taken should reflect this.

It is absurd that she thinks they have the right to decide what YOU will use for YOUR album- when we selected ours, and were looking at all the different contracts etc, part of the ''creative control'' factor was for the pictures they''d chose to show potential customers and on their website...

If they get to pick 150 pictures... and tell you ''you get to pick whatever other picture you want to have printed out'' I am guessing this is above what your package consists of, so it sounds a BIT fishy that they''d want MORE money after spending such a large amount of money.

Anyways, I am in utter disbelief. haha

I can''t even wrap my head around it at this point, I wouldn''t even bother with a phone call- I''d be right at their studio. People hate confrontation, but in a situation like this- she better believe its not going to be THAT easy to get you to pay MORE.

Ditto-this is really ridiculous. I would try to talk to the brother or at least tell the sister that her brother told you that you could change any photos you weren''t happy about. I was happy with my slide show but if I wasn''t I''m sure my photographer would have changed it, since you know-I gave him thousands of dollars!

And I think it''s strange to only have photos of you-my faves are the ones of everyone dancing or the ones of us with everyone else! I mean I love the photos of my husband and me but I know what we look like and I know where we were the whole night! I think it''s more fun to see things you didn''t get to see because you were the bride.

 

[sparkly_stars]

Date: 9/29/2009 12:56:37 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 9/28/2009 6:10:14 PM

Author: sparkly_stars

Usually when photographers want the ''rights'' to express their vision, and their creativity in selection for an overall product, it should come at a VERY minimal charge, or none at all (when someone is starting out etc)


Otherwise, they have the WHOLE day of pictures to use their ''creativity''. All pictures taken should reflect this.


It is absurd that she thinks they have the right to decide what YOU will use for YOUR album- when we selected ours, and were looking at all the different contracts etc, part of the ''creative control'' factor was for the pictures they''d chose to show potential customers and on their website...


If they get to pick 150 pictures... and tell you ''you get to pick whatever other picture you want to have printed out'' I am guessing this is above what your package consists of, so it sounds a BIT fishy that they''d want MORE money after spending such a large amount of money.


Anyways, I am in utter disbelief. haha


I can''t even wrap my head around it at this point, I wouldn''t even bother with a phone call- I''d be right at their studio. People hate confrontation, but in a situation like this- she better believe its not going to be THAT easy to get you to pay MORE.

Ditto-this is really ridiculous. I would try to talk to the brother or at least tell the sister that her brother told you that you could change any photos you weren''t happy about. I was happy with my slide show but if I wasn''t I''m sure my photographer would have changed it, since you know-I gave him thousands of dollars!


And I think it''s strange to only have photos of you-my faves are the ones of everyone dancing or the ones of us with everyone else! I mean I love the photos of my husband and me but I know what we look like and I know where we were the whole night! I think it''s more fun to see things you didn''t get to see because you were the bride.

And to add to that, what kind of "versatility" will it show if all the pics are of the bride and groom? Part of my selection "criteria" was what kind of candid shots they could take!
I was just thinking about this this morning (the whole money game involved in weddings- and how vendors have you "by the balls")
They know you want your pics, so they''ll do whatever they can.

 

[cleokizzy]

i agree with the ladies here. there''s no reason why they should not remove those 7 photos. send them your email and then follow-up with a call explaining why you want it removed. if the sister gives you a hard time, then talk to the photographer.

i think their just being lazy OR trying to squeeze more money out of you by making you pay extra to remove those 7 photos. tsk. tsk.

i hope this works out in the end (and you share with us that slideshow that does NOT include that 7 photos!)!

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 9/27/2009 11:18:18 PM
Author: allycat0303


ok. I'm reading my contract over, and I'm really concerned, my plan is basically this:

Photography;

--150-4x6 premium edition prints

-Preview CD with all images 450 pxl

-Storybook 8x12, transparent cover, photographic paper, 20 pg

-10 prints up to 8x10

-Slide show

In the email she wrote to me the following:

'We will not be changing the slide show, however. Please consider this and the premium print selection as the only products of the studio where the studio gets to express their vision, creativity and style. Everything else you order in your package requires your input.'

Am I reading your note correctly? That the "artistic vision" part was not included in your contract, but was conveyed to you by e-mail before you signed the contract? Does the contract include any stipulations about how much input you would have on choosing the images that would make it inot the final products? Did the contract mention the types of images that would be taken, i.e., that it would include shots of the wedding party and guests?

Hopefully a lawyer will chime in here, but... it seems to me that you signed on to the conditions in the contract and not the contents of the email, so the contract trumps the email. In any case, I agree that it would be best to bypass gatekeeper sister, and talk directly with the photographer -- preferably in person.

It's absolutely crazy for you not to have a say over which shots will be printed or included in your slide show, and for the package to be all about the bride and groom, largely ignoring the rest of the bridal party and the friends and loved ones who are near enough to the B&G to have been invited to share this day with them! Stick to your guns on this one.

I'm thinking they do this to force you to buy the CD... and I'm not normally looking for conspiracy theories!

If they don't bend, I'd also be all over the local knot pages etc. warning brides away from this "artiste!"

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Ummm...you hired her, she works for you. You are not a model she hired to display her artwork her way. She is performing a service for you, and you should be the final editor.

 

[Blue824]

That is very strange. My photographer uses her artistic vision in her SAMPLE albums, slide shows, etc that she shows people, but not in what is bought by a customer. Obviously, she''ll give her input if we ask or if she foresees an issue... I''ve never heard of someone buying something and not being able to choose what is included. Best of luck talking some sense into them, you deserve to get a slideshow exactly the way you want it. It is for the two of you, not for the photographers.

 

[cara]

Ally, where do you find these people? you did not pay them so they can express themselves artistically. You paid them to photograph your wedding. NOTHING in your contract language says anything about who gets to choose which photographs to use, and this woman's insistence that she gets to chose and you get what you get is absurd. YOU ARE THE CLIENT. If they want to select photos for a new album for advertising purposes, and such use was permitted under your contract agreement, then you don't get to object when they choose the pictures for their own album or their own prints from your wedding. But on your prints? You should absolutely get to choose and not feel bad about it! Please insist upon it!!

Especially on the 150 prints of the 450. There may not be anything artistic about family pics, but many people would want them regardless.

 

[allycat0303]

I haven''t been able to come into contact with the photographer yet. I was referred this photographer by 3 acquaintances in medical school. I didn''t know the two girls well, they just mentioned that this was their photographer so I took a look. I didn''t get more information then that, but I know that the photographer has taken pictures for many issues of elegant weddings (magazine). I''m pretty sure they are legitimate, but I think their reputation may be earned by enforcing their artistic vision. Yesturday, my husband called 3 times, and left a message. She has not called him back. He says this is standard with her, her hours a little bit erratic, and she always takes a long time to call back (if at all). I''m really hoping this can be resolved though.