shape
carat
color
clarity

Hi there! Starting to doubt myself...need input

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

niceice21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
52
I''d like to start by saying hello. I''ve been reading this site for a few weeks now and have put about 30-40 hours of research into learning about diamonds and settings and different vendors. I''ve played around with the cut analyzer and went to several vendor sites (bn, wf, gog, union, ja) and even visited a few sites like HoF and some of my local "known" jewelers websites. (I live in OH). After reading the helpful threads topic, I''ve spent alot of time watching the vids from the GOG vendor, including the what color is and isnt videos, and was starting to get an idea of what I wanted as far as measurables. I have a budget of around 8k and was looking for a round . . diamond somewhere in the 90-95 point range and a setting that would cost between 1-3k. (I''m actually pretty far away from proposing, as in more than a year, but my girlfriend and I have had discussions about our future and she is someone who I plan on marrying, she just doesn''t know when :).)

Basically, here''s what''s got me doubting myself. I decided to venture out to a couple of local jewelers today because while I can read and look at pictures online all day, I really wanted to get a feel for what I was looking at in person. I wanted to see just how big a 90 point diamond looked compared to a full ct, and I also wanted to look at a few settings in person, just to gauge what they look like. So the first place that I stopped at was a HoF vendor. I walked in and after being greeted gave the guy my story and told him why I was there (I told him about how I was looking around online and doing research but that I wanted to see stuff in person and wanted to see their line). He started by telling me that nothing I would find online would compare to their HoF stones because all of the stones, such as H&A, Heartstar, etc. were all just imitators of HoF and using a similar cut but that HoF created the cut, i.e. were the original, so they were the best. I agreed with him just to be polite but I let him continue. I had mentioned that I wanted something just under a carat so he began telling me that because HoF diamonds were so perfectly cut an 85 point diamond from them was just a big as a lesser cut 1 ct. stone. (He asked if I knew how big a carat should be and I told him that I thought they were around 6.4-6.5 mm. He said their carats were 6.5 but that an average diamond on the market was only 6.2 mm for the carat, hence their 85 point looking like a full ct.) I let him continue for a while, he pulled out a 1.5 stone and held it far away from both of us and told me to see how well it reflected the light, to which I agreed. He then asked what my budget was and I told him that I was only looking to spend around 5500 for a 90 point stone. He sternly looked at me and said there is no way that you will find a quality diamond for that size at that price. I asked how much the 85 point that he had pulled out was (it was an E, VS2) and he told me that it was 8300 just for the stone. I was kind of in shock so I just thanked him for his time and left the store.

Am I way off base, or was this guy feeding me a line? I had been looking at an F color, VS2, ACA 91 point H&A from WF that scored a 1 on the cut analyzer and had a beautiful idealscope that was listed at 5400. Am I missing something. I''m starting to feel like I''ve learned so much in such a short time that I''m losing it....please help me out. Thanks
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,083
Nope, HOF is just another brand name of a H&A ideal cut with a greatly mark-up price.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Date: 7/27/2009 4:27:15 PM
Author:niceice21
Am I way off base, or was this guy feeding me a line? I had been looking at an F color, VS2, ACA 91 point H&A from WF that scored a 1 on the cut analyzer and had a beautiful idealscope that was listed at 5400. Am I missing something. I''m starting to feel like I''ve learned so much in such a short time that I''m losing it....please help me out. Thanks
Seeking guidance....
I don''t know if HoF look as good as ACA.
The ACA I''ve seen are gorgeous!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 7/27/2009 4:27:15 PM
Author:niceice21
I'd like to start by saying hello. I've been reading this site for a few weeks now and have put about 30-40 hours of research into learning about diamonds and settings and different vendors. I've played around with the cut analyzer and went to several vendor sites (bn, wf, gog, union, ja) and even visited a few sites like HoF and some of my local 'known' jewelers websites. (I live in OH). After reading the helpful threads topic, I've spent alot of time watching the vids from the GOG vendor, including the what color is and isnt videos, and was starting to get an idea of what I wanted as far as measurables. I have a budget of around 8k and was looking for a round . . diamond somewhere in the 90-95 point range and a setting that would cost between 1-3k. (I'm actually pretty far away from proposing, as in more than a year, but my girlfriend and I have had discussions about our future and she is someone who I plan on marrying, she just doesn't know when :).)

Basically, here's what's got me doubting myself. I decided to venture out to a couple of local jewelers today because while I can read and look at pictures online all day, I really wanted to get a feel for what I was looking at in person. I wanted to see just how big a 90 point diamond looked compared to a full ct, and I also wanted to look at a few settings in person, just to gauge what they look like. So the first place that I stopped at was a HoF vendor. I walked in and after being greeted gave the guy my story and told him why I was there (I told him about how I was looking around online and doing research but that I wanted to see stuff in person and wanted to see their line). He started by telling me that nothing I would find online would compare to their HoF stones because all of the stones, such as H&A, Heartstar, etc. were all just imitators of HoF and using a similar cut but that HoF created the cut, i.e. were the original, so they were the best. I agreed with him just to be polite but I let him continue. I had mentioned that I wanted something just under a carat so he began telling me that because HoF diamonds were so perfectly cut an 85 point diamond from them was just a big as a lesser cut 1 ct. stone. (He asked if I knew how big a carat should be and I told him that I thought they were around 6.4-6.5 mm. He said their carats were 6.5 but that an average diamond on the market was only 6.2 mm for the carat, hence their 85 point looking like a full ct.) I let him continue for a while, he pulled out a 1.5 stone and held it far away from both of us and told me to see how well it reflected the light, to which I agreed. He then asked what my budget was and I told him that I was only looking to spend around 5500 for a 90 point stone. He sternly looked at me and said there is no way that you will find a quality diamond for that size at that price. I asked how much the 85 point that he had pulled out was (it was an E, VS2) and he told me that it was 8300 just for the stone. I was kind of in shock so I just thanked him for his time and left the store.

Am I way off base, or was this guy feeding me a line? I had been looking at an F color, VS2, ACA 91 point H&A from WF that scored a 1 on the cut analyzer and had a beautiful idealscope that was listed at 5400. Am I missing something. I'm starting to feel like I've learned so much in such a short time that I'm losing it....please help me out. Thanks

Ok lets see here. He is correct in some respects that a well cut diamond can look and be physically larger face up than a not so well cut diamond. However conversely you can get spready diamonds which face up large for the weight but aren't well cut. However a well cut .85ct won't look like a 1ct face up, it will be smaller. HoF also obviously carry a premium for being a branded cut and also you tend to find brick and mortar stores are typically more expensive than online.

Yes you can find a quality diamond for your budget, get a great cut as you have been learning and you will have a beautiful stone. It depends on you as to what you want, if you prefer a h&a then check out the following vendors, noted beside their links are their branded h&a which are comparable to HoF.

www.highperformancediamonds.com Infinity

www.briangavindiamonds.com Brian Gavin Signature Ideals

www.whiteflash.com A Cut Above

www.niceice.com Hand selected h&a

www.goodoldgold.com Hand selected h&a

You are NOT losing it, to me you show all the signs of being a very smart shopper, it is always best to question what you are learning and research. You are doing just fine!
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
Welcome to the wild world of diamond shopping.

Most of the what the HoF dealer was telling you is sales lines. HoF diamonds are very well cut, but they are also priced very high for what you get. A WF ACA or other branded H&A cut (such as Brian Gavin''s Signature H&A, Infinity or ISee2) will look and perform as well as a HoF, but usually cost you much less, as you found out. Some of the price difference in the two you are comparing is F vs. E color, but most is in the marketing and markup.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,725
It was basically a sales line- although as Lorelei pointed out, there was some truth in it.
For example: 6.2mm might be the average if we consider places like Kay''s or other commercial sellers- but not for those sellers concentrating on fine makes.

In terms of the prices- you have discovered that online sellers generally have an advantage in that regard.
It''s a shame the place you went to did not show you why it is worth it for some consumers to pay the difference to buy in person.
You won;t go wrong with the online vendor you mentioned.
 

filschaos

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
39
A quick suggestion, I have been noticing I have better luck when I don''t mention the internet at all while visiting B&M stores. The guy at the high end store carrying several designer lines was at least polite and helpful in person, but won''t bring in a tacori setting for me to see in person or get back to me when I left him a message. I think he just sees a limited return for his time since I mentioned I want to get the stone online. The mall stores and some shadier B&Ms I tried were just totally horrified and went off on tangents about how I''m going to regret buying online and EGL is the best certificate etc. Now I just keep my mouth shut!
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,624
I had a similarly pushy HOF sales associate who also exaggerated the performance of the HOF stones. I wanted to buy an eternity band locally, if possible, so I could see what it would look like with my solitaire before I bought it.

I was looking at a $2500 HOF eternity band. It was beautiful. While I was in the store, I compared the HOF stones to my Crafted by Infinity stone (which is a branded H&A stone, as is HOF). I could see no difference between the HOF and my stone. Oh, wait, except one difference -- a HOF stone in the same carat, cut, and clarity as my Infinity was double what I paid for mine.

The salesperson was not rude to me about buying on the internet, but he did make statements to me suggesting that my ideal-cut stone was somehow a lesser cut than HOF. This cost him the sale of an eternity band.

My advice is to take your time, look at as many stones in real life as you can (outside of store lights if possible) to determine your size, color, and clarity preferences, and say as little as possible to sales associates when you visit B&M stores!

HOF are beautiful diamonds; it's too bad some of their sales associates feel the need to cheapen the beauty of the stones through the use of poor sales tactics.
 

niceice21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
52
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys! It was just a little flustering because I felt like I had done my homework and this guy just dismissed all of it. He had me look at one of the stones face down so I could see the hearts all the while saying, you wont find that anywhere else but I was just thinking, "this looks just like that hearts image I looked at online last night. Am I missing something here?"

I did check out another store down the road and the SA there was much more helpful. I initially just told her I wanted to look at settings (they had tacori and a couple of others) and after she showed me a couple, I explained my budget and expectations for the stone. She said that I should''nt have any problems for my price range. She told me that her other associate could even get me some stones to choose from if I knew what I was looking for and that even if I wanted to get the stone from an online vendor they wouldn''t have any problem setting it for me. It was a little more comforting.

It''s just funny that all of this got started when my girlfriend and I were at a mall store and they suckered her into looking at some e-rings. I knew zilch about diamonds but this sa was telling how great their leo diamond was and how it came with not 1 but 2 certificates. I was kinda freaked out because I had no idea what anything on the certificate meant. I did notice that the stone size was .91 ct and she said it was a full carat, so I was confused at the time thinking that they must just round up
1.gif
. So I started my learning process at some website that was actually a good starting point and it referred me to blue nile and union diamond. I was going to stop there, but I started wondering if there were any sites where people chatted about this kind of thing in a forum setting and after some searching, low and behold I stumbled upon this place. Glad I did!
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,624
Date: 7/27/2009 5:39:44 PM
Author: niceice21


I did check out another store down the road and the SA there was much more helpful. I initially just told her I wanted to look at settings (they had tacori and a couple of others) and after she showed me a couple, I explained my budget and expectations for the stone. She said that I should''nt have any problems for my price range. She told me that her other associate could even get me some stones to choose from if I knew what I was looking for and that even if I wanted to get the stone from an online vendor they wouldn''t have any problem setting it for me. It was a little more comforting.

This SA sounds great!!
 

b.anna

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
205
oh i definitely think the salesman was just trying to make a sale. 8300 for a .91 HoF is ridiculous! you dont need to get a HoF to get an excellent cut diamond that looks larger than its actual carat size.

i had a similar experience with a vendor, and i opted to go with finding just a diamond with a GIA ex/ex/ex. they found an E VS1 for me for 6900 so you can definitely find something better, that''s just as great quality :)
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 7/27/2009 5:39:44 PM
Author: niceice21
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys! It was just a little flustering because I felt like I had done my homework and this guy just dismissed all of it. He had me look at one of the stones face down so I could see the hearts all the while saying, you wont find that anywhere else but I was just thinking, ''this looks just like that hearts image I looked at online last night. Am I missing something here?''

I did check out another store down the road and the SA there was much more helpful. I initially just told her I wanted to look at settings (they had tacori and a couple of others) and after she showed me a couple, I explained my budget and expectations for the stone. She said that I should''nt have any problems for my price range. She told me that her other associate could even get me some stones to choose from if I knew what I was looking for and that even if I wanted to get the stone from an online vendor they wouldn''t have any problem setting it for me. It was a little more comforting.

It''s just funny that all of this got started when my girlfriend and I were at a mall store and they suckered her into looking at some e-rings. I knew zilch about diamonds but this sa was telling how great their leo diamond was and how it came with not 1 but 2 certificates. I was kinda freaked out because I had no idea what anything on the certificate meant. I did notice that the stone size was .91 ct and she said it was a full carat, so I was confused at the time thinking that they must just round up
1.gif
. So I started my learning process at some website that was actually a good starting point and it referred me to blue nile and union diamond. I was going to stop there, but I started wondering if there were any sites where people chatted about this kind of thing in a forum setting and after some searching, low and behold I stumbled upon this place. Glad I did!

We are glad to help! You are going to end up with a gorgeous diamond!
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,083
One other thing about ''certification'', no, they are not certification, just grading reports.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top