The dreaded budget talk

[Hudson_Hawk]

Warning...long vent

So ladies and gents, question for discussion this afternoon:

How did you approach the dreaded budget subject with your parents?

A little background:
My parents divorced when I was young-6ish. I have 1 brother with my Mom and Dad and he''s older with no plans for marriage at this time. My parents have since remarried. My mom''s side now has a 1/2 brother (freshman in HS) as well as a step-brother and step-sister. SB is much older and married, and SS is my age, but with no plans for marriage any time soon. My dad''s side has 3 step sibs, 2 SS''s who are married and older and one SB who is just out of HS but didn''t go to college. With the exception of my little brother (the 1/2) neither parent supports us kids.

Several months ago, FI and I had dinner with my mom. We were talking about getting our new car (MG Miget) as it''s something FI has always wanted. I was torn, because I knew that we''d be getting engaged, and I thought we should put that $$ in savings towards the wedding. I say as much at dinner, and my mom chimes in, "Oh do it now when you''re young and you can, I''ll take care of your wedding." The money we had for this expenditure was an inheritance FI received. It was his money and he was as torn as I was about how to use it.

Now, FI and I were both taken aback, because while my mom is a great person and a fabulous mom, it seemed a little out of character for her (for example my mother hasn''t paid for anything for me since I left the house at 1. I never assumed that my parents would be paying for my wedding entirely, but I was psyched when I heard this. But that''s as far as the conversation went at that time.

So fast forward 2 months, we buy the car, we get engaged, and my parents are thrilled, yadda yadda yadda. I started emailing my mom with ideas for the wedding-nothing outrageous, just a link to the venue and some dress ideas, and she sends me an email one day asking my if we had given any thought to our budget. So I reply saying that I had been hoping to have the money conversation sometime in the near future when we could be together in person, versus doing it over email. I said nothing was set in stone, but that it looked like it would end up being around $20-25k (which is on the lower end of average for the Northeast where we live). She didn''t reply for about 2 days.

2 days later I send her an email asking if everything was okay. She replied asking how much I owed in student loans. Now, I put myself through college so my student loans (for undergrad and grad) are astronomical at the moment (about 100k). But they''re also differed until 2010 (with a fab interest rate for the life of the loans). This student loan vs. wedding thing has NEVER come up in the past, but I can see where her concern is coming from and how she''s weighing the use of her money. We already own our house, so a down-payment isn''t needed, and with the exception of our mortgage, which is manageable, and my loans, we''re not in debt. I would prefer to have the money for the wedding at this point because we''ll end up in debt if we have to pay for the wedding ourselves. I gently explained that the money could be better used elsewhere at this point.

So within that email, I went on to describe more in detail the financial aspect of my ideas, what would hurt cost-wise (caterer, photog) and where I wanted to work on saving money (flowers, dress, etc). It was a very well thought out and diplomatic email. I also stated in that email that I never intended for her (or both my parents) to pay for my entire wedding, but that financial help would be appreciated. That was a week ago and I haven''t heard anything back from her...

So now I don''t know how or where to pick up the conversation or any conversation. I haven''t spoken to her at all. To be honest, it''s kind of taking the fun out of being engaged. I''m stressed because now I''m trying to figure out how we''re going to host a wedding that''s mostly made up of my mom''s side of the family on our own. I can''t put deposits down, because there''s a chance we won''t be able to do the wedding where we want to (if we have to pay for it ourselves). Ideally it would be nice if my mom handled the cost of the caterer and my dad the venue rental and the photographer. They''re basically the same amount of money. But I have no idea how to open the conversation with my mom again, and then start the conversation with my dad. I''ve never been one to ask for money, not even $20 for gas so it''s really akward for me.

I hope this doesn''t make me out to be a spoiled, entitled, brat, because I''m the furthest thing from it. I understand that $20-25k is a lot of money to spend on a wedding and the marriage isn''t about the wedding. However, my family wouldn''t be cool with us eloping or doing a destination wedding with a few close friends. The 80 of my family members on the guest list are obligatory guests. There are maybe 20 friends and their significant others, and half of those are the wedding party. The rest is FI''s family.

How do I start this conversation in a constructive way that allow us to come to a compromise?

I''m trying to approach this as an adult, but the inner princess in me wants to stomp her feet and cry.

 

[Independent Gal]

OK HH! First of all, deeep breath. This too shall pass. And the budget talk was the most stressful part for me so far too. We broached it by saying to each possible contributor (except my dad who had already offered): "We want you to know that we can do this on our own if necessary. Any contribution you make we will consider as a very generous gift. If you would like to contribute, ti would be helpful to have a ballpark sense soon. Do you want to set up a time to talk about it?'

That gives people time to think it over, crunch numbers, etc. And having a scheduled time to talk always seems to me to take some of the pressure off. Everyone's in the right frame of mind etc.

I might have started not from what you want, but from what people are willing to give. In other words, decide what you want based on how much you have to spend. Your mom might have felt a bit put out by that? But probably not.

Your mother's silence doesn't mean she's not planning to contribute. It probably means she's doing some number crunching, talking things over with her husband, weighing options, etc. The 20-25K number might have thrown her for a loop too, since she may not know how expensive weddings are.

Now, as my father put it when we were first talking things over, many wallets make light work. Will your father contribute? Will FI's parents contribute? Say your dad, you, and his parents each kick in 5K, then it's 10K for your mom, and not THAT painful for anyone else.

So, are you broaching the topic with your dad? With his parents? Letting your mom know these talks are going on could help so she doesn't feel like 'How come I'm paying for everything?!'

As for what to do, I would send your mom an e-mail that basically says 'I know you probably need some time to think this through. Just want you to know how much we appreciate any help you can give us. We'll be talking to dad and to his parents (if you are) too and we wondered if we can schedule a time to talk with you to get things hammered out.'

 

[Independent Gal]

BTW, my dad ended up allowing ME to set my financial priorities by saying 'I'll be giving you a chunk of cash when you get married. You can spend it all on the wedding if you want. If there's anything left over, it's your wedding present'. He figured, that way, if I wanted to get sucked into wedding industry madness, that was fine, but this would concentrate my mind on 'Do I really NEED to have these Vosges truffle favours? Is it worth more to me than buying a bigger home a couple of months sooner? Do I really NEED a Fendi dress? Is it worth more to me?'

Worked like a charm. And I was especially glad after our little condo disaster. Of course, part of me wishes I could just have said 'Here's everything I want to make my wedding dreams come true, Daddy. Here's the bill. Pay it!' But the realistic, down to earth part of me is glad he forced me to be responsible and reasonable and weigh priorities.

100K is a LOT of debt. Even at a low interest rate... But you only get married once!

 

[basil]

I think there''s always an element of sticker shock when these things come up. If you haven''t planned or been thinking about planning a wedding lately, it''s kind of overwhelming!

I had a lot of time to plan, so I kinda gradually eased into it. I would have conversations with my parents like "oh my gosh, this wedding stuff is so expensive! Can you believe it''s going to cost $$$ for the photographer?" I think eventually the more we talked, the more they realized that I wasn''t being as extravagant as it sounded at first, and I was researching all the options. It helped that they want a fun party almost as much as me.

I don''t know what to do about your mom not responding to your email. I guess a general course of action would be to get quotes from various vendors in different price ranges and start showing her the data, so she knows you have hard data and that you aren''t pulling this out of thin air. That and maybe time to adjust.

This is all assuming that you believe she has the funds to contribute without putting herself in financial jeopardy. If not, then all bets are off and you''ll probably have to go it alone.

 

[whenharrymetsally]

Oh dear..HH i''m sorry this is soo stressful for you. I hope everything will work out for you

Independant Gal''s advice sounds like it might work? This way the parents don''t feel like they are obligated to pay, but can contribute if they so choose? Unfortunately FI and I are paying for the wedding ourselves so we didn''t have any budget talks with either side of our families. I do keep telling him i got ripped off! hahah It is customary for asians that the grooms side pays for the wedding.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Hudson, sorry that you''re so stressed about this. I agree with IG that your mom''s lack of responding isn''t necessarily a bad sign, she''s probably just weighing some options. I understand that $25 - $30k is by now means above average for a wedding, but I''m sure your mom was probably a little taken aback.

Let''s just say that you and your FI had to do this wedding all on your own without any help, how would it be different? Would you elope? Would you have a small informal affair? Would you have the same wedding and go into debt for it? Maybe it''s just a matter of compromising with your mother by scaling back what you would do.

I think the best thing to do is to create a budget for each aspect of the wedding--something I know you''ve been working on--then have a face-to-face meeting with your mom to see what she can cover. That way you''ll know exactly what you''ll have left to pay for. From that point I would sit down with your FI and discuss how long it would take you to save the extra money (if she can''t cover all of it). Decide how much of your expendable income you can put into a (high interest) wedding account every month and from there you can figure out how much time you need between now and the wedding.

When FI got engaged we knew there would be no help. I created what I thought was a realistic budget and we talked about it. We agreed that we didn''t want to spend a penny of our existing savings on the wedding and after doing some number crunching, we realized it would take about 5 - 6 months of putting extra money into a wedding account to have the wedding we wanted. We set the date for 6 months from then and the budgeting went better than planned. We negotiated on a bunch of stuff and came in under budget on nearly everything and saved us $7,000 which we''re using towards a honeymoon. I think for the most part wedding budgeting is mostly about sitting down and figuring out what is most important to you, then settiling on a realistic figure and sticking to it no matter what!

I promise that it will get better, Hudson, and even if your mom isn''t able to cover all of it you will plan something that you love!

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Independant Gal''s advice sounds like it might work? This way the parents don''t feel like they are obligated to pay, but can contribute if they so choose?

From the start of wedding "talk" with my mom, pre-engagement, I made it clear that I didn''t expect her to shoulder the burden of paying for the wedding. She knows she''s not obligated to pay but the fact is, she has the funds for it and would not be putting herself in financial jepoardy if she helped us out. I''m frustrated, because we were trying to do the right thing by being responsible and putting away money for the future. Instead, she put this cockamamie idea in our heads that more would be covered than we initially expected and FI chose to use the $ elsewhere. So now we''re down 5k that would have just about paid for the venue and photog. Don''t get me wrong, we have money to contribute, but contributing 10k for your own wedding with 5k from each parental unit is a lot different than 20k of your own. FI''s family wont be contributing at all. In fact we''ll essentially have to pay them to come to the wedding (as well as for their wedding clothes,and room and board for the weekend), because they can''t afford the gas for the 5 hour drive-we''ll have to reimburse them.

In the last email I sent her I gave her a run down of what we were interested in and what the rates were but I also provided examples of other less costly options to show her I wasn''t set on one thing and was willing to make things work for less. But no response, nada. And I had no time to slowly work into the subject because she dropped the bomb (question) randomly in an email. I had planned to talk to her one on one, just her and I, in person. When she asked what our budget was, I stated

"We don''t have a set budget yet, because we don''t exactly know what we have to work with, but looking at things in the area, it looks like it''s going to end up being around 20-25k." So I never committed to that budget. So if she felt put out by that then I''m sorry, but I was being honest. I''m not going to sugar coat something like this. It needs to be discussed fully and in the open which is why I''m p*ssed that she''s avoiding the subject. It''s not like I said "well I figure the 20k you give me will be enough."

And this isn''t a fairy tale wedding I''m planning. We have one of the cheapest venues in the area, we''re looking at cold veggie and cheese platters for the cocktail hour with chicken and beef for dinner and and open-beer and wine only bar (cash bars are not allowed in this town). I''m planning to do the flowers and decor myself to save money and I refuse to buy a high-priced designer dress. How is this lavish? It sounds pretty moderate to me.

Grrrrr so frustrated!

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Sorry guys, I know I''m whining and I don''t mean to. I''m just really fruistrated right now.

Dad and the SM are coming for a visit this weekend and I''m planning to talk to them at that time about the budget. But I know his first question is going to be "well what is your mother contributing?"

 

[whenharrymetsally]

HH, I''m sorry..i didn''t mean to imply that your mother was ''expected'' to pay or contribute to the wedding. And i completly understand that contributing 10k for your own wedding with 5k from each parental unit is a lot different than 20k of your own. We wish we were lucky enough to have parents to even contribute a little. i guess what i''m trying to say is I''m sorry this is happening...I know how stressful planning a wedding is as we are going through the same thing and I know how parents can be. My mother is the same way. She''ll say something or promise something..and then change her mind. I have found that if the subject is approached in a different way..i get different reactions. I hope it will eventually work out in the best way for you.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hey I hear ya HH. I wasn''t trying to imply that you were being entitled either! Not at all. After all, she DID already say she''d pay, right?

I was just suggesting it as a strategy, for rhetorical purposes.

Is it possible you''re doing that thing that I do way too often, where I interpret facts a certain way that makes me really upset and unhappy, and then it turns out my interpretation was completely wrong and I wonder why I wasted the energy? What I mean is, do you know that your mom is actually rethinking helping out? Or could it be she''s being quiet for another reason, e.g., she''s talking to her stockbroker or something about how to make it work? My parents needed time (about 2-3 weeks) to do that stuff before they gave me final, hard numbers.

In other words, maybe it''s not so bad! She''ll e-mail you in a couple of weeks and say ''Honey, here''s the dish!'' and you''ll be all YAAAAY! and wonder why you let yourself get upset!

So that''s why I say: deeeep breaths. 90% chance it''s going to be A-OK.

If it''s keeping you up, maybe you could call her up (so she has to listen) and ask: "Could we make an appointment with each other to talk about this? I know you may not be ready right now!"

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Sorry ladies, I think the tone of my posts got a little intense. I didn''t take anything you said personally, no worries, we''re cool.

 

[jesterjigger]

I''m so sorry for your situation...I feel your pain. The same thing happened to me (just two or three weeks before the wedding!). When we got engaged in May 2006 we got our parents together to meet and everything. Well, the wedding budget came up at lunch, FI''s dad said that they would contribute $5,000 and my parents said they would contribute $5,000. My parents changed it to $6,000 because we had to move the venue, so we planned an $11,000 wedding. We also bought a house, truck, and horse trailer during the year and a half before the wedding. My parents paid every single deposit that was needed, and I kept asking FI how we were getting the money from his parents. He was scared to death to ask them, and it ended up coming up about three weeks before the weddig with his parents saying that they knew they were responsible for the RD, bar tab, and what else? I was shocked, since we weren''t having a RD and I had never heard of them being responsible for any of the things they mentioned. I think they completely forgot that they promised a specific amount, but ended up agreeing to pay for the reception dinner and bar tab (we had an open bar for the most part, a couple of the groomsmen added a hundred as well, lol), which ended up being around $3,800.

Since it was FI''s family I let him deal with it, since he said that he could take some money out of savings if he had to, so at least my parents weren''t going to get stuck with more than they''d agreed to. It just would have been nice to know that we needed to budget for that extra $1200 when we started planning the year before, since I know they weren''t obligated to give us that much money, or any at all.

I would definitely ask your dad and FI''s parents if they can contribute anything. I don''t really have any other advice, I know how tempting it is to remind her about the car you wouldn''t have bought if she hadn''t offered to cover the wedding, but at least you found out early on that you can''t count on her. And if she does offer up cash, try to get it and put it in a savings account ASAP...otherwise you might end up with no way to pay the vendors on the day of your wedding...