Palladium: Nobody will work on my ring, will this be a problem in the United States?

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Hey, well I am VERY upset right now. I need to get my girlfriends ring size a little smaller, maybe .25 or .5 of a ring size. It fits it just spins around and can come off without too much force. Not necessarily FALLING off. anyway

I was told to go to a jewelery reform show in Japan on August 8th and that they could do it. We went today, and on the metal stamp on the inside of the ring, the PD, is partially gone. I noticed it when I first got the shank but I didn't think it mattered. So when I brought it in, I showed it to them, told them it was palladium and asked them to resize it. They refused. I asked them why, and they said that they can not read the (now I am infuriated with knox by the way, considering the other problems I had and now the unclear stamp is causing major problems) stamp so they don't know what type of metal it is. I told them, it is 950 Palladium 50 parts ruthenium. They said "we don't know what type of metal it is, we can not read the stamp." I told them over and over but they refused to believe me or accept my word. I started to get really angry, but no matter what I did: bring out my English appraisal, my receipts, no matter what, they refused to do it with out some sort of "certificate of guarantee" proving the metal type or without a clear stamp mark. I am so angry, the 950 is obvious, the P is quite clear, and the D is partially invisible, and they won't accept it for lack of knowledge.


To make matters worse other jewelry stores around here have never even heard of palladium, especially in rings. Apparently my research in metal types in Japan was all wrong! I will be calling a jeweler I got to know in Columbia today, but my girlfriend will only be in America for four days, and these stinking people here won't help at all. I started almost yelling by the end of the conversation, it was terrible. And then they said, "dame, sumimasen"...ugh, talk about infuriating. As though I don't know what type of metal it is, or that there is some major risk in the security of the ring to resize .25-.5 of a ring size assuming it is palladium? I am right, yes? there is practically no risk?

Should I expect this same treatment from American jewelers? Refusal to work on the ring without a totally clear stamp mark? unwillingness resize down a bit on palladium?

 

[neatfreak]

I don't think it's the stamp, I really think they have no idea what palladium is! And yes, it can be a problem because many jewelers don't have enough knowledge about the metal to be willing to work with it comfortably. So many will decline the project because they don't know how to deal with it. We asked around at a number of local jewelry stores here and only one even knew what it was and they said they would have to have a palladium ring shipped somewhere if you needed work on it. Don't know why.

ETA: On second thought, I bet that they were so concerned with the stamp because my platinum ring is stamped PT. So if you can't see the D on yours, they probably just thought you were crazy and THEY probably thought it was platinum, which is why they might not have been willing to work on it? Just a thought...

 

[mrssalvo]

I can''t imagine a jeweler not resizing b/c they can''t read the stamp. The bench guys can just test the metal to see what it is. At least that is what my local guy did when I purchased an antique setting last year and was unsure if it was WG or plat. Anyway, I''d call around the local jewelers in the area where your gf will be and make sure someone there can/will on pall. I don''t know anything about the metal other than it''s new and therefore not a lot of jewelers may be willing to do work on it.

so sorry this has all been such a headache for you

 

[decodelighted]

Palladium is pretty new in jewelry. With or without a stamp I''m not sure how many jewelers will work on it *anyway*. There must be someway to find out which jewelers near you will work on palladium ... maybe a jewelers network? Even if you could just get sizing balls or a bridge put in it would help the spinning (BTW the band will fit tighter when she''s wearing it w/her wedding band eventually -- two rings on the same finger fit more snugly, flesh displacement or something)

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Ah geez, it looks like my research has fallen through the bottom of the glass boat....I think I might be in trouble...

Anybody know what the deal is? is it just lack of knowledge or is there actually a real reason why people won't work on it?

and yea, I saw that a bridge in the recent post, that looks nice. I doubt anybody here in JP is going to do it though, I have gotten nothing but strange looks, quite laughs, and sumimasens. And lots of inspecting my stamp with their loupe. infuriating. plus they keep holding my ring by the diamond, anyway, im just generally in a sour mood right now, but I hate when they hold my ring by the diamond and get it dirty and don't clean it before giving it back....

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 8/8/2007 10:04:57 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
Ah geez, it looks like my research has fallen through the bottom of the glass boat....I think I might be in trouble...

Anybody know what the deal is? is it just lack of knowledge or is there actually a real reason why people won''t work on it?

Lack of knowledge and trust in a new metal. Mark at ERD won''t work with it and quite a few other reputable jewelers I talked to won''t touch it either. I think they just don''t want to be responsible for something they don''t know enough about yet.

BUT that being said, I do think you will be able to find SOMEONE willing to work on it. It just is going to be a bit more difficult than if it were platinum or WG.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

well, whatever the real reason is, I think I will have to withdraw my recommendations of Palladium for a while

 

[Ellen]

Sorry to hear all this.

For now, I would just get a cheap sizer put on so she can wear it without worry.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

what is a cheap sizer? (I will now go see if I can find the answer, but I am not sure what you mean)

 

[JohnQuixote]

 

[denverappraiser]

Palladium takes some slightly different techniques to work but it’s not really all that difficult. Find someone with a laser welder who has experience with Platinum and they should be able to get up to speed quickly and if sales patterns are any clue it will definitely pay them back to take the time to do so. As the market for palladium increases, jewelers will develop more experience working with it but, for the next few years this is likely to be a problem.

I agree that the stamp thing is just an excuse. For starters, no bench worker worth his torch puts a whole lot of confidence in what those stamps say anyway. Some are good but there’s plenty of things that show up in a typical store that are either completely unmarked or incorrectly marked. If the customer tells you what they think it is and it’s a new purchase from a contactable dealer you’ve got a good clue. Testing isn’t very difficult and can really answer the question.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/8/2007 10:26:04 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
what is a cheap sizer? (I will now go see if I can find the answer, but I am not sure what you mean)

It''s something EVERY jeweler will have. I just had one put on one of my moms rings for her, cost 5 bucks.

Here''s a pic of one on my OMC ring, but it''s a bit more elaborate. It''s all one piece, with a double band of metal. The cheap kind will just be one piece where the ends are clamped on the ring. Then you take like a butter knife, put it under the sizer and push it up for tighter, or bend it down for looser.

 

[starchild]

just a suggestion: you might want to let her wear for a few days to see if the size is ok after all.

when i got my ring, i also thought it was a 1/4 to 1/2 size too big, but after wearing it for a while, i realized that my finger changes size throughout the day and depending on what i''m doing. it is usually bigger at the end of the day, and if i go hiking or do some kind of strenous activity, it tends to swell.

even though it spins a little sometimes, it hasn''t been in danger of falling off, and when my finger is bigger, i am definitely glad i have that extra bit of room. i can''t imagine anything worse than a ring that is too tight or stuck!

 

[poshpepper]

WHFSR--- Im so sorry that you are having problems getting someone to work on your ring.

What an ordeal!!!

This is one of the reasons I was hesitant to buy a ring in palladium (verrrrry tempting metal from all the descriptions).
I would think that it would be easier to find a vendor over the Internet that could work on your ring (riskier I know, but there has to be one here on PS besides your ring's original vendor that works with palladium)... or just get a sizer put in by a trusted B&M jeweler. I like the bridge sizer the best (sizing balls are pretty uncomfortable -- at least for me)

G/L with everything!

 

[poshpepper]

Date: 8/8/2007 3:52:09 PM
Author: poshpepper
I like the bridge sizer the best

Here is a pic of the bridge sizer provided by Catmom on another thread:

 

[lauralu]

I am sorry for the troubles you are having. I cannot help, but I wanted to add if I may. We are highly considering having our rings done in Palladium by a local jeweler here in our city ( we are Minnesota USA). They are doing alot in Palladium and some of the employees there have had a number of their stones reset from white gold to Palladium. They tell us it looks like white gold but wears tough and no gold wearing off to show gold through it. I did really like the look of the metal from the pieces I had looked at. i also really like the idea of not having gold show through it ever.

maybe you just ran into a wierd circumstance....good luck to you.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 8/8/2007 8:08:15 PM
Author: lauralu
They tell us it looks like white gold but wears tough and no gold wearing off to show gold through it. I did really like the look of the metal from the pieces I had looked at. i also really like the idea of not having gold show through it ever.


maybe you just ran into a wierd circumstance....good luck to you.

well, thanks for all of the response


well, when white gold still looks freshly rhodium plated I can see a difference. The rhodium is certainly whiter to my eyes. But if the name gold doesn't mean a lot to you then you can always just get palladium rhodium plated anyway--but to tell you the truth I like the contrast of the darker Palladium and the brilliant white diamond much more than the whiter rhodium and the white light return of the diamond--it really emphasizes the diamond in my mind and is much more attractive to me. However, in other WG pieces I have not been able to see any difference, I assume that is after some wear has occurred causing it to look a bit duller and darker as it wears off. And then of course compared to fairly worn WG, well, there is of course a difference there, as you pointed out, because..well..it's yellow underneat

and to star child, I appreciate your advice. I had actually read about such situations before so I was taking time of day, etc, int to consideration. it was loose on my original presentation of the ring, which was late evening, and I monitored it throughout the day yesterday as we walked through the city. At Evening in a movie, after walking in the heat all day (and yelling at the jewelers) while I was holding her hand she got hurt because it fell between her fingers. I also tested how easily it slid off her finger several times during the day, and it certainly slid over her knuckles much more easily than any ring I have ever seen, no twisting needed just a tiny bit of force, so I think it could be a problem. Going to try to locate one of those ring sizers for today, and go back to talk to someone in Chanel who had told me Palladium was going to be ok in the jewelry reform show a week or so ago.



And to JQ

I don't think I have enough information to make any final statements yet, especially as this is only one city in one Asian country, though it is a fairly large one (Fukuoka). However, what I can say is that I have traveled to a lot of jewelry stores in the past couple of weeks, checking out Solitaires, multi-stone Erings and wedding bands. and while I haven't asked them all about working on my ring I have asked several of the stores I have visited. I have asked big namebrand stores--but as to be expected they don't do any work on anything but their own rings--other large very well located stores, and a number of smaller stores, some of them local, some centered in huge shopping malls, a couple of them down side-streets, etc. Some of which do repairs in shop but refused to touch it and others that said they usually ship it to their partner but they didn't think they would be able to help, they would have to find out more and it would take at least 1 week, probably more.

So far the only person who immediately knew what I was talking about when I first mentioned "pallajium" and showed her the PD written down (those symbols being universal of course), was the girl at Chanel fine jewelry, though they knew of it at Tif and Cartier as well (where I actually asked them if they knew anyone who could help me, and got a few recommendations that didn't pan out, though one of them did lead me to the huge ascher that was so much fun to check out

so not a complete loss.)

Thus so far I have gotten very little more than blank stares and confusion. I have also perused probably thousands of pieces of jewelry and I have yet to see a ring in Palladium. Probably about 75% or more is platinum, maybe as much as 10-20% of that being pt1000, with a number of very small open air jewelry stores carrying significant numbers of WG, YG and RG bridal sets. I also spoke with one of my fiance's friends and she had never heard of palladium being used in rings before, she asked her mom who had never heard of it in rings either, so they called their family jeweler and he didn't know about it either (though they had all heard of it being used in earrings) so he referred me to a glasses store that repairs jewelery (which I wasn't planning on using anyway but) we called and they said they were unfamiliar, was I sure it isn't platinum and that they might be able to do it but it will take 4-6 weeks.

Also, in addition to the problems at the jewelery reform show there was some suggestion at that company that they MIGHT be able to fix palladium if I leave it with them for a few weeks (the exact time was unspecified as I had lost my temper at this late point in the conversation) but they also went on to say that for insurance purposes there business can not accept rings where the stamp is unclear (and/or I am not sure) it does not have a certificate of guarantee card accompanying it so I would need one of those first. They expected something like the AGS report on my diamond. I have actually seen a number of such cards set up in the platinum (especially the pt 1000) cases, so I am guessing that they accompany all of their E-rings with such "certificates of guarantee" on the metals.


So, while if you live in a city where it is becoming popular then I don't see any reason not to do it if its what you want. But, as far as this city in Japan, I am sure there must be someone who knows of it and can help me in a timely manner, but it certainly is not easy to find and it CERTAINLY does not carry anywhere near the presitge or name recognition of Platinum or gold. And this is just to resize down a very simple solitaire, I can't imagine if it were a fairly difficult job you know?

I honestly think that, in the case of Japan at lest, if you have customers buying diamonds from you then you might recommend them to at least check out local jewelery stores for the setting, especially if its a very simple setting. Several people have offered me the opportunity to buy settings from them separately while looking and usually for significantly lower prices than in the US. The diamonds are jaw-dropping expensive here, but in the same way the metals seem to be quite cheap considering the quality. They also like their diamonds to sit VERY low and the rings general have a much more smooth and fluid overall appearance than most of the American Jewelry I have seen--somehwat of a different style.

However, while palladium may not be the thing now, I have a feeling that if it is able to take hold again in America then it will almost certainly do so in Japan

(of interesting note, pink is QUITE stylish at the moment...amongst the guys)

And in the cases where they do buy it from you, maybe you would be able to provide them with something that says "Certificate of Guarantee" and looks fancy? Doesn't necessarily have to mean anything special I imagine, but just enough to show to a bench-man or buisness should suffice. It may just be an unusual situation I am in, or perhaps my own lack of familiarity with where to go to get work done on jewelry, but from my experiences I believe that anyone in this region should use extreme caution and speak with a local jeweler that is familiar with it before deciding on palladium.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

When is she going to be in the US? Can''t you just make an appointment to have it done while she is here?

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

that is my plan. the only problem is that she only gets 1 week vacation in a year, and so with travel time she will only have 4 days in America. I know a jewelry where I live that can probably do it, I am going to send him an email tonight and find out. But we are flying in to my parents house so that is an 1 1/2 in the wrong direction for where we want to travel. So I will have to call around and see if anyone closer to her can do it, though I won't know them, or maybe find someone up in the great smoky mountains that can do it. I imagine I can find someone that can do it, just going to have to find them and hopefully not have to drive so far out of our way. and hopefully it won't be lost before that, as it is still uninsured and loose, lol

those ring sizers look like a great idea though, going to be hunting down one of those and printing out some pictures to show around and see if I can find them.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

well this didn''t exactly help me any, and it was a bit repetitive at times, but all in all it was a nice read: Some palladium reading

 

[lauralu]

Thank you for that palladium link.

 

[oldminer]

Sizing a palladium ring smaller is no problem. One can readily use platinum solder or even 18kt white gold hard solder and do a very nice job. If any seam shows, remember, it is at the bottom of the ring where it is almost always invisible anyway. Few jewelers stock palladium solders and many may not know exactly how to weld it. It can be welded with the tiny piece cut out to re-size it, but a bench guy can do it if he wishes without my advice. It is a no brainer and I find it strange you have had such a problem.

Making the ring larger, one would hope to use a tiny piece of 950 palladium, but 18kt white gold or platinum can be substitued. You would be hard pressed to find any visible difference. Sometimes we find that members of our own trade are our worst enemies. Hope you get someone to assist you.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 8/9/2007 8:51:28 AM
Author: oldminer
Sizing a palladium ring smaller is no problem. One can readily use platinum solder or even 18kt white gold hard solder and do a very nice job. If any seam shows, remember, it is at the bottom of the ring where it is almost always invisible anyway. Few jewelers stock palladium solders and many may not know exactly how to weld it. It can be welded with the tiny piece cut out to re-size it, but a bench guy can do it if he wishes without my advice. It is a no brainer and I find it strange you have had such a problem.


Making the ring larger, one would hope to use a tiny piece of 950 palladium, but 18kt white gold or platinum can be substitued. You would be hard pressed to find any visible difference. Sometimes we find that members of our own trade are our worst enemies. Hope you get someone to assist you.

I disagree with this advice. Benchworkers should do the job properly or not at all. Use palladium when working palladium.

That said, here are some comments for bench jewelers who may be reading this. Palladium works about the same as 14k yellow gold with the exception of polishing. It bends nicely, welds, solders, cuts and sands the same as what you’re familiar with. Polishing is a bit like working platinum and uses the same supplies although it’s softer and not nearly as time consuming to get a nice finish. It takes a slightly different gas mix at your torch but you will be fine with the oxy/propane, oxy/natural gas that are common in most shops. I'm told hydrogen is difficult but I've never worked with it on palladium so I can't give first hand info. It lasers great. You’re regular metal suppliers will have palladium solders available for about the same prices as your gold solders and an inventory of a pennyweight of each is a cheap investment in the future of your business, as is a modest inventory of sizing stock and wire for tipping. You can make your own stock with a rolling mill but watch out for contamination. Technical and training information is available free at www.stuller.com, www.hooverandstrong.com and most of the other supplier firms that want to sell you the solder and supplies. This IS an up and coming material and you are going to get asked about it with increasing frequency. It’s not hard and it doesn’t take a big investment in supplies, just a little bit of practice.

WorkingHard and others are having a hard time finding jewelers who want their money. This is called opportunity. Take it. They come into the store twice, once to drop it off and once to pick it up and you become the guy who solved their problem, you get to make a buck at it and you’re likely to be on the list of places they consider for their next purchase. It’s all good.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

JQ or whoever else, I know that Knox uses the induction method to cast their palladium rings, what other questions do I need to get answered to determine how hard the metal is?

Also, if I were to find someone to engrave a D in the spot where the D stamp is not present do you think anybody would be able to tell that it was not part of the original metal stamp and it might potentially cause me problems down the line? or nobody would be able to tell and it would be just as good as having the original?

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

sorry a double post. But thank you all for the comments thus far.