Random Thoughts on Cohabitation......

[Sha]

There's been quite a few posts recently about LIWs in long-term, live-in relationships trying to get their BF's to commit, and it's really got me thinking again about modern relationships issues, especially cohabitation. I remember a few months back, a mature poster by the name of Cookie Tyme came in and said that LIWS were basically devaluing themselves by living with their BF's before marriage, and that women should refuse to take that step unless an official commitment is made. People pretty much jumped all over her...but I think what she says really has merit.

Why should men feel any extra incentive to tie the knot when they’re already getting all of the benefits of marriage (regular sex, food on the table, good company, a clean house), anyway? Why make that official commitment and risk possible divorce down the road? I really think that’s how many men think. Unfortunately, many women want that official commitment, which is where the problem comes in.

I think it’s sad too, that many BFs have been living with their GF’s for many years (some who even have houses together), and still say, “Oh, I’m not ready to get married..” What are you not ready for? Aren’t you living like a husband already? I think that is such a huge cop-out. Sadly, I think the situation gives them an opportunity to drag their feet…since there’s no real incentive to change anything.

Anyway, this is not to start another war...as these subjects often do. I really feel for the recent posters and what they're going through, even if I haven't replied directly to their posts. And I do completely understand why many men and women would want to live together first before getting married, especially with the high divorce rate today. I just don’t think it works in our best interest all of the time. I think if I had moved in my DH before we got married, he might have dragged his feet in getting married a lot more. I think he would have said, “Okay, we’re already living together anyway, why can’t we use the (wedding) money to buy a car…or to save for house, etc. etc?” I think that the ‘living together’ and seeing each other every day part of marriage is something that many couples look forward to. Once that’s sealed before marriage, then for many persons…the incentive just isnt’ there to officially tie the knot.

Anyway, the point of my post wasn’t really to start another cohabitation debate. It was really to muse about the surprise factor…and leaving a little ‘something’ to look forward to once marriage comes. I think, with the divorce rates as they are, people try to plan everything to minimize risk – including living together, so that we know EXACTLY what we’re getting into. But maybe that’s anti-climactic, and maybe it takes some of the incentive away from getting married in the first place. In older days, most couples moved in together after the wedding and adjusted to each other then. And the ‘move’ provided a fresh, exciting start to married life – something to look forward to, even with the initial difficult adjustments.

Anyway, this has been a very poorly worded and edited post, and certainly long enough. I’m not really sure what I’m trying to say... Just wanted to throw those thoughts out there for what they’re worth… since I’ve been thinking about them a lot lately.

Your thoughts? experiences?

 

[smiles]

this is what i love most about PS. although I also may not always respond directly to all posts, i am defninately reading them. i think we are a group of intelligent women and I enjoy that people bring up topics in general for us to think about. It really has helped me figure out more of who i am, what things i will or will not compromise on and being able to discuss those with bf makes the relationship stronger.

so thank you sha for sharing your thoughts and for giving us some more food for thought to apply to our own belief systems!

 

[chocolatefudge]

Have pressed reply and don''t really know what to say now! I can see that this thread may go the same way as others recently, although you never know!

I do live with my boyfriend and we aren''t engaged and I don''t know when we will be. Do I think if I hadn''t moved him with him we would be engaged right now? In all honesty, no I don''t. I really wanted to live with him, I wanted to move out of my parents house where I didn''t have any space of my own and I couldn''t afford to live by myself, nor did I want to! I have been very happy living with my boyfriend and he says he has been too, although he still hasn''t proposed.

I don''t know where I''m going with this now, although I do want to say that if we hadn''t moved in together I would have been DESPERATE for it to happen and would probably have pestered my boyfriend none stop which would have a) Pushed us apart or b) Pushed him into proposing when he wasn''t ready. I wouldn''t have wanted either of these things to happen so am happy with my situation (although I am eager to get married.)

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Here is food for thought:

Although I understand that some men may cop-out of getting married once they are aready living with a woman - most men, even women, want to live with a person before making that next step in the relationship. A LOT of things change in a relationship once you live together, and getting to know each other''s idiosynchroses before hand may save a lot of distress post-marriage. That being said - the rates of divorce in married couple who were living together first vs. not are the exact same. So I guess in the end it doesn''t matter?

 

[mimzy]

FI and i are waiting to live together for a couple of reasons, and one of them is so that marriage IS a major life transition. some people don't really buy that, and that's okay. we put a lot of thought into the decision, and we're both happy with it.

this might be a little off topic, but since getting engaged i have been extremely grateful for living on my own during our engagement. it's given me the space and time to reflect and properly prepare myself for marriage, and has inspired me to appreciate and take advantage of my independence while i can. it's been great having this much more time to myself, knowing that i have my own space but that FI isn't far away. there have been times when i've been tempted to throw in the towel and try to convince him to move in, but i'm glad that we've held our ground. i have the rest of my life to live with him, and my time to live on my own is slowly dwindling and i am now in NO hurry to speed that up! obviously i love my FI dearly and can't wait to live with him, but this is a good phase in my life too that i want to enjoy.

i know i will be ready for married life come december, and the transition of living together is going to make it that much more special for us (NOT saying that it's not special for couples who live together first, obviously). we'll be making the transition into having a life together under no uncertain terms and it is completing thrilling for me.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I lived with my BF on and off for 3 years before we became engaged. I was not devalued and there was no issue, we just both felt we were too young to commit to marriage before that. We are also having a 2 year engagement for the same reason. Actually, I think I have more issues with commitment than my FI, and living together made it much easier for me to sort through them. Personally, and again, this is just for me, but I wouldn''t be serious with a guy I hadn''t lived with. Of course it is great when you get to see each other a few times a week an there is excitement, that doesn''t indicate to me there is necarily any basis for a long term relationship. But to feel the way I do when I see him everyday, not just when he is looking his best for me, tells me I am making the right decision. The idea of simply not waking up next to him everyday upsets me enough to let me know I am making the right decision.

 

[risingsun]

I recently posted this another thread, but here goes...My DH and I decided to move in together prior to getting married. I was renting a house [post divorce] and he owned his house [post divorce]. I was going to move in with him. It meant a major change for me. We went into this with the understanding that we would become engaged withing 2-3 months after moving in. Marriage would follow in 1-2 years. About a month or so before the move, I expressed some concerns about the changes that would happen in my life. Not long after that, he proposed to me. He told me that he felt that he wanted to make that level of commitment to me before I moved into his home. He wanted it to be our home. We were married in less than a year. For us, being on the same timeline, was everything...the rest fell into place without us having to push or pull each other.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 5/17/2008 12:22:02 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Have pressed reply and don''t really know what to say now! I can see that this thread may go the same way as others recently, although you never know!


I do live with my boyfriend and we aren''t engaged and I don''t know when we will be. Do I think if I hadn''t moved him with him we would be engaged right now? In all honesty, no I don''t. I really wanted to live with him, I wanted to move out of my parents house where I didn''t have any space of my own and I couldn''t afford to live by myself, nor did I want to! I have been very happy living with my boyfriend and he says he has been too, although he still hasn''t proposed.

You know, this makes me a little sad. I don''t mean to offend you, but did you never want to be an independent woman? To look after YOURSELF and fend for yourself? I know it''s each to their own, but I just wonder how healthy it is to never have the experience of being responsible for yourself, going straight from being supported by your parents to being subsidized by your man. It''s easy to get room-mates, if you can''t afford to live by yourself.

But that''s probably just a character thing. I guess for some woman knowing they can totally take care of themselves is just not high on their priority list and I certainly don''t mean to impose my priorities on anyone else! But of course I think they''re important they ARE my priorities!

 

[Circe]

Date: 5/17/2008 3:19:16 PM
Author: Independent Gal
You know, this makes me a little sad. I don''t mean to offend you, but did you never want to be an independent woman? To look after YOURSELF and fend for yourself? I know it''s each to their own, but I just wonder how healthy it is to never have the experience of being responsible for yourself, going straight from being supported by your parents to being subsidized by your man. It''s easy to get room-mates, if you can''t afford to live by yourself.


But that''s probably just a character thing. I guess for some woman knowing they can totally take care of themselves is just not high on their priority list and I certainly don''t mean to impose my priorities on anyone else! But of course I think they''re important they ARE my priorities!

Independent Gal''s post really struck a nerve with me: I''m recently married, and recently back in a LDR, and the last week since it started has had me thinking about this sort of thing A LOT, because after the first lonely weekend, I realized something ... I''d never lived alone before! I''d been a financially independent person for a long time, yes, but I''d always had roommates, and even when those roommates went on vacation, there was always someone else in the picture - a friend to drop by, a BF to stay over. So, different kinds of independence ... that realization has definitely made it more of a priority for me to acclimate to this.

Moving a little closer to the original topic: I fell into the category of women who refused to live with a guy before marriage, but in my case, more because of commitment issues than because of a desire for commitment, if that makes sense: having lived with one partner early on, and knowing how incredibly hard it made it to extricate myself from the relationship, I was determined not to complicate my life by blending possessions and removing personal space until I was *positive* that it was "forever."

There are different kinds of commitment out there, and I know that many women, as well as men, want to experience the closeness of living together as a kind of a "trial run" before anything more serious. I also think that to imply that the only reason that a woman could want to live with a man is to advance the cause of marriage is a damaging stereotype (CT''s, not yours, Sha). It reinforces the whole idea that women are all about commitment, and men are all about sex, and it kinda does a disservice to both. Solutions? If I had any, I''d be making a lot more money than I am ... but if I had to hazard a guess, I''d say communication in situations like this should be crucial so that both partners expectations were out in the open. A lot of confusion can arise when one partner views moving in together as a step on a continuum that should lead to marriage, and the other views it as their final destination ....

 

[iheartscience]

I agree with quite a bit of your post, Sha.

I did live with my boyfriend before we got engaged, but we had a definite timeline and got engaged less than a year after we moved in together. I think living together before marriage was the best bet for me because I do NOT like change, and I probably would have freaked out if I waited until after the wedding to live with my fiance. (I actually warned him that I might throw up when he proposed!)

I also have a hard time with the fact that so many women, here on PS and in real life, believe that it is 100% up to their boyfriends as to when they''ll get engaged and married. As 50% of a couple, it was 50% my choice. We got engaged because we both wanted to, not because my boyfriend finally "came around." I just don''t get that mindset.

Communication is so important, and if someone is unable to talk to their boyfriend about getting married, they probably shouldn''t be getting married. I can''t even imagine living with my boyfriend but being afraid to ask him about marriage. It''s just so strange.

Anyways, I don''t mean to upset any LIWs or make them feel attacked-I certainly went through a period of LIWitis, although it was mostly my own fault for wanting a big diamond ring!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think that living together is a healthy compatibility exercise before marriage, but in all honesty it doesn't take more than a year or two to know if you're compatible or not. I consider living together to be a short-term exercise (if you want marriage) and not a long term solution.

I lived with DH for 6 years before we got engaged. It was way too long--yes, we'd created a marriage timeline before moving in together, but by the time our timeline started creeping up (by year #5 or so), I realized that the transition from living together to getting engaged was not going to be as smooth as I'd hoped. When the timeframe we'd created came and left, so did I. DH admits that he did become too comfortable. I talked with the husband of a friend who proposed a year after they started living together (that was the time frame they had set before moving in together) and he said that having a timeframe of 12 months not only kept him focused on the engagement, but it also helped them to enter into living together as though it was a marriage because they knew marriage was coming very soon. The transition for them from living togeher to marriage was much easier than it was for DH and I.

Also, as IG, said, I think living on your own before living with a boyfriend is SO important. The first year and a half of DH and my relationship was long distance. Yes, it would have been cheaper for DH to come down and live with me, but I wanted time on my own. I needed time on my own. And really, so did he. I miss living on my own sometimes, haha!

The cost of living has increased so much that more couples are living together for the financial benefits. Then couples feel stuck in a relationship that isn't necessarily fulfilling...when I was younger, this happened with a few close friends and they had a hard time breaking away from the relationship because it was a logistical and financial mess. This is why I didn't want to live with then-BF for financial reasons.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/17/2008 4:16:28 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
The cost of living has increased so much that more couples are living together for the financial benefits. Then couples feel stuck in a relationship that isn''t necessarily fulfilling...when I was younger, this happened with a few close friends and they had a hard time breaking away from the relationship because it was a logistical and financial mess.

WORD!!! My sister lived through one of those 7 years together financial entanglements and SWORE she''d at least get a timetable for engagement before ever moving in with a boyfriend again! I learned from her lesson and my DH & I didn''t move in together until after the ring had been ordered & we were engaged about three 1/2 months after moving day.

Do people not get ROOMMATES anymore?

Blah, blah so expensive to live etc etc .... GET A ROOMMATE or TWO or THREE ... just like us old folks did!!

 

[MoonWater]

Lived with FI for over 4 years before he proposed. We''re getting married in October. I would never agree to marry anyone I did not live with first. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[TravelingGal]

I never thought I would live with anyone before I got married. I was having too much fun being an independent woman!

But as soon as TGuy got notification that he was selected for further processing in the green card lottery, we knew we were on the road to "forever"...you don''t ask someone to move across an ocean if you don''t have that in mind. So we lived together and were married by the following year.

 

[isaku5]

Date: 5/17/2008 4:55:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I never thought I would live with anyone before I got married. I was having too much fun being an independent woman!

But as soon as TGuy got notification that he was selected for further processing in the green card lottery, we knew we were on the road to ''forever''...you don''t ask someone to move across an ocean if you don''t have that in mind. So we lived together and were married by the following year.

ITA....Tgal, you haven''t lost one iota of your sense of humour since becoming a mom!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/17/2008 5:28:48 PM
Author: isaku5

Date: 5/17/2008 4:55:56 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I never thought I would live with anyone before I got married. I was having too much fun being an independent woman!

But as soon as TGuy got notification that he was selected for further processing in the green card lottery, we knew we were on the road to ''forever''...you don''t ask someone to move across an ocean if you don''t have that in mind. So we lived together and were married by the following year.

ITA....Tgal, you haven''t lost one iota of your sense of humour since becoming a mom!!

Ha...no...if anything being a mom makes your sense of humor a bit more warped!

 

[CNOS128]

Hee hee... food on the table and a clean house? I guess my BF is getting a raw deal. I don''t think it still works this way in the 21st Century - does it? Are women all cooking & cleaning for the men? We''re totally going about it all wrong, then!! We split the cleaning and he does all the cooking. Won''t comment on the regular sex but I''m sure he wouldn''t be the only one benefiting from such a thing.

Anyway, I told BF from the beginning that I didn''t want to live with him (or any man) until I was engaged or married. He felt like he wanted to live together before marriage. Now, I did place this restriction on cohabiting because I''m afraid that he''ll have "Why buy the cow" syndrome. I know him well enough that I can trust him not to think of me in such a way, and that if he says we''re going to get married, we will. Perhaps THIS is the problem. Not all men respect their significant others'' wishes enough to give the desire to be married enough clout. And perhaps not all women can judge their significant others'' character well enough to determine whether this would be the case were they to move in together. If a man is ''dragging his feet'' I think that says a lot about him and the relationship; and it doesn''t necessarily say that he wouldn''t have dragged his feet at least a little bit had he not moved in with his partner.

I''m just not convinced that it''s a mistake to move in with someone simply because he might take his sweet time since he''s already gotten what he wants. Many men, mine included, are *really* very eager to get married, and there''s not much that would convince them to do otherwise. Many men don''t need additional incentive to venture into marriage.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who does not want to live with her BF before engagement. (But for other reasons largely having to do with my stubborn sense of indepedence).
Now, here''s the clincher - in a couple of days I *am* moving in with him - sans proposal. He''s assured me it''s coming soon. And I totally, absolutely, positively, 100% believe it -- because he knows that''s what I want, and it''s what he wants, and our relationship is strong enough that I can put full faith in what he says.

 

[Rhea]

Let''s not tell my husband that woman are supposed to do the cooking and cleaning. I very much like that he does most of it.

I think that living together before marriage or not living together before marriage has advantages for both parties. To say that men have most of the benefits while women are waiting for commitment isn''t fair to either gender. It stereotypes men the lazy ones who just move in together to avoid housekeeping and to get sex and women as the begging, pleading type who can''t take her mind off of marriage and children for more than a second. Regular sex (and splitting of chores in a way that pleases both people) is good for both parties in a relationship, and I imagine you''d be hard pressed to find a stable, healthy couple - married or not - who says that sex isn''t important to their relationship. It''s not just the men who want sex and chores done for them and the woman who give it up to get a man. There are plenty of men out there who want marriage and who work damn hard to get it.

I think the argument about whether or not living together is right for you could easily be solved by breaking some societal norms and communicating. Women appear to be taught that if a man wants the marriage or children that he''ll make the first move. In modern society I can''t think of any other case where women sit still and keep their mouths shut for fear of being seen as pushy or desperate. Men appear to be taught that marriage is the end all of guys nights out and that you''ll have to be responsible for someone else financially and emotionally. If couples would speak up and actually sort out their thoughts on relationship before making any big moves I imagine less people would feel that one partner was making all the decisions or compromising on what they really wanted in life.

 

[FrekeChild]

If the pluses for marriage and cohabitation for men, are having food on the table, sex in the bedroom and a clean house, then I feel sorry for BF. I feel, as I often do, that these threads are a throwback to the 50s. Often, you have a point, but I think that there are often a lot of gross generalizations made within them.

I do not remember Cookie Tyme's thread as fondly as you do. Her original post was poorly and offensively worded, and after all of the drama had settled, she came back and clarified herself, made more sense, and said many things that I agree with.

Having said what I have so far, I think there are pluses and minuses to each side. People who think positively about cohabiting are going to put more merit in the pluses for doing so. People who think negatively about cohabiting are going to put more merit in the minuses for doing so. That is just how the world works.

And honestly, I don't think it is anyone else's business, and judgment need not be passed on those who feel opposite of your own feelings towards the subject.

 

[purrfectpear]

I think there are two valid reasons to cohabit. The problem comes when both parties don''t agree on the SAME two reasons.

1. You''re both in lust, and just want to be together because the person is "Mr or Ms Right Now". Both parties go into the relationship for mutual fun, sharing of expenses, experiences or whatever. Two adults making a decision for the moment. No strings, no expectations.

2. You''re both in love, and believe that this is "Mr or Ms Right". Both parties go into the relationship with the idea that this is the trial step to marriage. Two adults who have discussed and agree on a timeline for the trial, and when the engagement and subsequent marriage will occur.

If women would stick to one or the other, there wouldn''t BE any LIW posts about disappointments or unmet expectations.

Ladies, do NOT move in "hoping" that he will see you as the future Mrs.

If you think he is the one, have that conversation before you cohabit. If he is uncomfortable with a sane discussion, it''s not the right time to move in. If you both agree it''s a trial, then put a limit on the trial period. Decide mutually how much time you''re both comfortable with.

Otherwise, you''re just shacking up. Not that there''s anything wrong with that. Just don''t go in with expectations that only exist on your part

 

[Linda W]

DH and I were best friends for 2 years, before we even discussed getting married. We moved in together 3 months, before we were married. We have been happily married for 27 and a half years. End of story. LOL

Linda

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

I will never even consider living with a man before marriage for both religous and personal reasons, but none of those reasons has anything to do with the fear that a man would drag his feet to buy the cow when he can get the milk for free! First of all, who are you calling a cow!

I would not consider myself lucky to marry a man that had to be subconciously manipulated into marriage... "if you want to sleep with me and see me every day and split bills, then you better put a wedding band on my finger!" That sounds silly

I''m not saying that there aren''t men like that, but who wants to marry them anyway!

When two people live together, both the man and the woman are getting all the same cohabitating benefits - sex, comfort, companionship, dual income (wouldn''t that be nice!) This idea that all men see no other benefit of marriage than cohabitation and women have given away all their cards by moving in together is somewhat insulting to both men and women.

I agree with the person that said that there are two reasons for cohabitation, and if both parties go into the deal with the same expectations without making assumptions about the other person''s motives, then a lot of heartache could be avoided.

FWIW: In the experience of my friends and one family member, all cohabitations eventually led to marriage. Only one had to give the ultimatum (if you are not ready to begin the next phase of of our life together, then I must move out) and they have been happily married for nearly 15 years. Everyone else went into the relationship with a timeline of engagement and marriage already planned.

 

[Dandi]

DH and I bought our land to build on 5 years into our relationship (we each owned our own places at that stage), but while the house was being built (12 months) we were happy living apart and I was fiercely independent, as was he. I stayed with him most of the time, but everything was separate in terms of bills and maintaining each other's houses. Having discussed marriage and goals for the future extensively, we got engaged 2 months after buing our land despite not living together yet, and it was a bit frustrating the way so many people couldn't understand that we were engaged but living separately. I know here in Australia it'd be fair to say that most couples co-habitate long before an engagement. We moved into our new house and got married after living together for 14 months.

I get why couples live together prior to engagement... in our case we just didn't want to live apart from each other anymore! And I have seen alot of the 'getting the milk for free' scenario too, which sometimes suits both parties and sometimes doesn't.

 

[Sha]

Interesting thoughts.

I didn't mean to suggest that women don't also get benefits from living together, such as regular sex, good company, enjoying the relationship before taking that next step, etc. I know that we do as well. However, I still think the situation is more disadvantageous to women in the long run...since we are the ones, frankly speaking, who more actively pursue engagement and marriage. If having that official commitment is important to us....as evidenced by the many LIW's on this board....then perhaps comfortable, live-in situations, where both men and women get benefits, may still 'disadvantage' the woman, since women are generally more eager to take that next step, while many boyfriends often don't feel the urgency to change anything.

Thing2of2, I was interested in what you said about engagement being a 50/50 thing - that engagement happens because you want it as well, not because your partner decides to propose. Can you elaborate some more?

I agree that living alone before marriage and establishing your own independence is a good thing. I lived on my own (well, with my brother...in another part of the house) for 4 years and really appreciated that time by myself. When else can you be completely free? You know...walking around for a day in pajamas without brushing your teeth, just because you feel like it..... leaving dishes in the sink cause you don't feel like washing them.... Watching endless episodes of What Not to Wear on Friday nights... Falling asleep on the couch just cause it feels good.. Ahhh.....freedom.

(I promise I'm not a slob!) I couldnt' imagine moving in with DH unless I had had that time to myself first. If not, I'd always wonder what I would be missing. Plus, it helped me to learn how to manage myself (paying bills, tracking finances, learning to cook, etc.) before taking that next step.

 

[bee*]

I have lived with D on and off throughout our relationship (nearly 9 yrs) for various different periods, and have also traveled extensively with him, however I wouldn''t move in officially into our own place until we got engaged. For me, I just wanted a further commitment before I went into a financial agreement (ie with our house). I do think that some men get used to the situation when living together. I''ve had two friends in the past six months break up with their long term boyfriends as they have been living together for years and there was no sign of any engagement. Now this could have happened anyway but they both feel it was due to the fact that there men were just too comfortable living together and didn''t need to get engaged.

 

[Pandora II]

I can see both sides of this argument having lived with a couple of ex''s and FI.

A lot depends on the type of relationship. When I lived with my ex''s, both sides knew that it was for convenience and not as a permanent arrangement. One of the ex''s had rather a different idea, and it was a painful split up for him and a lot of guilt on my part.

With FI, it just felt right, we both knew it was a permanent relationship even if marriage hadn''t been discussed at the time (3 months). He is getting a very bad bargain as far as food on tables and clean house is concerned - he''s much more domesticated than I am!

As for sex - we''d probably have a lot more if we didn''t live together!

I''m not really interested in added excitement after marriage - I like knowing that we are so compatible and happy with each other. Excitement will come in our buying a new house and hopefully having a baby.

I''m spending a lot of time with my FSIL at the moment who is having quite a lot of problems with her marriage. She and FI''s brother married last September. She''s from the US and he''s from the UK. They did LD for 3 years and the longest they spent together was 2 weeks at a stretch.

He is struggling with giving up his single lifestyle and she is feeling unhappy being in a foreign country and him going out on his own all the time with his friends. There are a lload of added problems, mainly due to his immaturity and lack of understanding of her needs. I am very worried that they might split up and I''m doing what I can to help her out. But when you are sleeping in separate rooms after 8 months of marriage there is a problem.

My sister also married a man she had a LDR with - complete disaster.

I really think if they had both lived with their respective husbands for year before marriage, the problems would either have been sorted out, or one or other would have walked away. Finding yourself married to someone and having problems is a lot more stressful as there is more at stake than things going wrong with a bf.

On the whole, does it slow down the proposal question... I think it helped FI as he saw how good our relationship was and it has helped him conquer the fears caused by his parents marriage.

Last night I was sitting next to a guy at my cousin''s wedding reception who had been dating his gf for 11 years. I grilled him on why he hadn''t proposed yet, and he finally confessed that he had horrible feelings about marriage because of his parents. He had found living with his SO was helping him to see that not all relationships were the same and that he had started talking about marriage a lot because everything he did he felt a bit better - a bit like an arachnaphobic looking at a spider a bit more everyday. In the end, I said it seemed like he was pretty much ready - yes, he said, all I need is the ring, can you help! So he has my email address and I''m helping him out on it. Turns out his gf is also a distant cousin of mine!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 5/18/2008 4:24:22 AM
Author: Sha
Interesting thoughts.

Thing2of2, I was interested in what you said about engagement being a 50/50 thing - that engagement happens because you want it as well, not because your partner decides to propose. Can you elaborate some more?

I think of engagement and marriage as a decision that both the man and the woman in a relationship should come to together. It seems to me that so many couples seem to have a major power differential in their relationships, in that the woman wants to get engaged and married desperately, and the man isn''t that interested. The women in these relationships leave their futures up to their boyfriends entirely, so the boyfriends have all the power in the relationship.

Often the woman doesn''t even feel comfortable asking her boyfriend about marriage, which also makes no sense to me. I just don''t think relationships like this can be real partnerships, because one party holds all the power. I personally couldn''t be in a relationship that wasn''t a true partnership, with both parties making major life decisions, which marriage obviously is.

My fiance and I talked about getting engaged and married quite a bit before we became engaged. I realized sooner than he did that we were going to get married, but then again, he realized he loved me a lot sooner than I realized I loved him, so I guess we''re even! We both knew we wanted to be together for the long run so we decided we should get engaged. I did get engaged with a diamond ring that my fiance paid for, so I did have a traditional proposal in that sense. I designed my engagement ring and picked out my diamond myself once we decided it was time, so it wasn''t a surprise engagement in the least, although of course I didn''t know the exact time he would propose to me.

I think women need to take control of their own futures. Although it is undoubtedly hard to walk away from a long term relationship, if you want to get married and your boyfriend doesn''t, why stay in that relationship? If you''re in your mid to late 20s and have been together for 3+ years and he still isn''t sure or ready, I''d think long and hard about how many more years you want to put into that relationship waiting for him to let you move into the next stage of your life.

Did all that rambling make sense?

 

[robbie3982]

Date: 5/17/2008 3:19:16 PM
Author: Independent Gal


You know, this makes me a little sad. I don''t mean to offend you, but did you never want to be an independent woman? To look after YOURSELF and fend for yourself? I know it''s each to their own, but I just wonder how healthy it is to never have the experience of being responsible for yourself, going straight from being supported by your parents to being subsidized by your man. It''s easy to get room-mates, if you can''t afford to live by yourself.

But that''s probably just a character thing. I guess for some woman knowing they can totally take care of themselves is just not high on their priority list and I certainly don''t mean to impose my priorities on anyone else! But of course I think they''re important they ARE my priorities!

Indy, I don''t think that living with a SO necessarily means that someone is any less independent than someone living with a roommate. I think a lot of the women on this site keep expenses and money entirely seperate until they''re engaged or married (from reading the various how to combine our money threads).

I think something can definitely be said for living on your own entirely, but I think that depends on the type of person you are. For me, living alone isn''t something I feel I missed out on. I had a single in college and that was probably the least social year of my entire life. I''m not a very social person naturally so without that roommate interaction I stayed in my room most of the time.

After I moved out of my parents house I moved in with a roommate for a few months and I am glad that I did that even though I ended up having to pay the rest of my lease (8 months worth!) after I moved out. That short time really taught me to how to manage bills and savings and I''m glad that I got that all figured out before moving in with DH.

I really didn''t want to live with someone before being engaged (did it once in college and it was a mess), but it was really important to DH (he''d never lived with a SO before) to take that step before getting engaged. We were in a LD relationship and only got to see eachother on the weekends. I think he was afraid that everything would change when we were able to spend every day (minus work of course) together. I was a little worried too, but I realized that he needed to see that everything was ok to be able to take that next step. We talked about getting married before we moved in together and both agreed that this is where things were heading and he just needed this last reassurance that everything would be ok. There''s no way I would''ve moved in with him without having that talk. Moving in with him meant leaving my job and moving to another state.

We were engaged about a month after we moved in together.

 

[dogmama]

I think that it is stereotypical to believe that a man will feel completely comfortable with a live-in girlfriend. Men today aren''t all like that and certainly some have evolved to a degree where they crave a legal, socially accepted bond called marriage. It''s certainly true that some men hem and haw and abuse the benefits of living together with a SO, but not all men.

My fiance wanted to move in together before we got engaged. I said no. I came from separated parents and was a little commitment phobic. He wanted to make sure we were compatible. I however wanted to know that he was committed to me and not how we lived together. So we didn''t live together, nor do we now. I made the point of telling him that being engaged before living together was ideal because it gave us a tangible commitment to fight for if cohabitating got rough.

He initially felt like I was trying to trap him into a proposal, but after I told him my belief, he understood. A few years later, he told me he didn''t care about living together before engagement or even during engagement. He said he finally understood what I meant: he loved me enough to make the commitment without feeling the need to minimize the risk of having a difficult time meshing our lives together. Meanwhile I gradually realized I was open to risking living with him because I became more secure and felt he was truly committed to our relationship.

In this case for me, I needed to know and feel that we couldn''t live without each other as people, not necessarily whether or not we could live with each other. I know that if had the former we could always work on the later. So now, we''re going to look for apartments and move in shortly before/after we get married. It''s an exciting venture for us because this is all new and its something we both want to do and do together. It''s essentially our first big newlywed project once we''re married.

We have no illusions that it will be hard. But we also are clear about our commitment to each other first and foremost, not necessarily the ease and convenience of living together. SO while I did NOT live together with my FH before engagement or even during now, I strongly feel that living together could be great! As long as both people are committed to each other already and have a definitive time line together, I don''t see why living together is such a terrible thing.

 

[Deelight]

I don''t think there is anything wrong if you decide to live or not live with your SO before getting engaged or married. Personally I could not marry someone I have never lived with to me marriage is forever so why not stack the odds in your favour

. Little things you find cute when your dating can drive your freakin nuts when your living together.

I have lived on and off with my BF since I was around 19, while this was not initially my choice but things happen and thus things change my dad and I had a massive fight and he kicked me out of the house we both owned I being a poor uni student whose friends all lived at home and had no intentions of moving out had nowhere to live so he moved out with me. He had it pretty sweet at home and really there was not an incentive for him I barely cooked or cleaned at the end of the day he did it out of love.

We currently live together and while it is not perfect we have together learned so much as a couple and have such a wonderful understanding of each other that I have no hesitation in saying that I will spend the rest of my life with this man. Financially we have built a good base and are ahead of most of our friends and have the beginnings of a secure future. I don''t think living together has made him drag his feet, in many ways I have not been ready to commit further then what we already had, I can admit I am a commitmentmaphobe but I have gotten better .

Each to their own really