Pre-Marital Counseling

[fisherofmengirly]

What''s your take on counseling before marriage? Would you marry without it? If where you wanted to be married required it, would you do it, even if you didn''t think you needed it? Have you done it? Learned anything you didn''t know you didn''t know before?

The poll: Do you plan on, or have you already begun, pre-marital counseling?

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Have any of you started this process yet? What have you gained from it?

We start May 6. I''m looking forward to it, as it undoubtably touches on topics you don''t think of, or things you don''t think matter that much. They might not matter to one of you, but could totally matter to the other!

Anyway, I''ve heard tons of good things about it. And, it only took three sessions for me to see that I DID not need to marry an ex. I love it for that alone! I''m *so* looking forward to it as a building block for us, this time.

 

[Mandarine]

Hi!...

I responded we might.

I think it is a good idea...but depending on the type of counseling and the couple. My sister and her husband did it (required by the church that married them) and everything was just kind of silly and common sense...so they didn''t get much out of it.

I would like to if I had a good recommendation from someone...but I think my BF wouldn''t want to do it. He''s just a very private person and would probably not see the point. I think in order for it to work both people have to be serious about it.

I don''t think that it is only for couple with issues at all. A lot of topics could be discussed that the couple has never talked about and it might be helpful to have a common understanding of certain type of situations.

So...with that said, "we might" simply because there is no option for "I would think it is a good idea depending on the type of counseling, but he wouldn''t...so we won''t!" hahaha

M~

 

[ilovesparkles]

Well I clicked on the maybe one. I am not sure right now. I would like to but don''t know how he feels about it etc. I wanted to say yes, but not that I woulnd''t get married without it. I think it is an important tool that can be used to build a stronger foundation. But I really don''t know if I would do it through a professional service or through my rabbi. That aspect of it I really have not put any thought into.

 

[Blenheim]

We''re planning on pre-marital counseling but haven''t started yet. I think that I feel more strongly than he does, but he''s willing to do it because it''s important to me.

I''ve heard only good things about it, and I feel like it''s good to go into a marriage with as best an understanding of each other, our goals, our commication patterns, et cetera, as possible. I don''t think it''s just for couples with problems.

My best guess is that we''ll start in September. We''ll be able to get it for free from the university when I''m a graduate student.

 

[akw94]

I think that I would like to but haven''t talked about it w/my bf. We also each have a child (by different relationships) and my son will live w/us so I think that''s another issue that i''d like us to talk about. I agree that it''s not necessarily for couples w/problems, but more to learn about each other, views on various topics, how you''d handle those topics, problem-solving, etc... It would depend on finding the right counselor though. I would want someone experienced in this sort of counseling. Also, i''d want to know that there is some sort of set of topics to discuss, rather than us just coming in there and having to create our own topics.
So i''ll bring it up sometime after we get engaged. I did think about doing it sooner, only b/c we are moving in together this summer and kind of wanted to do it before that. I recently decided to wait and do it more of a pre-marital thing.

 

[anchor31]

It might take another few months before we''re engaged and we''re panning on a long engagement (2-3 years), so we haven''t discussed it yet. I think we should, though, it could help us learn some uselful things.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Yeah, it totally depends on the counselor, the point the counselor and the counselees see in the sessions. I had a professor in college who was a family counselor, and he did a LOT of pre-marital counseling. He''s one of those types of people who *shoot straight from the hip* and after just a portion of a session, listening to the couple, seeing how they interacted, he could tell a lot about them, and their chances of success. (Isn''t it funny how some people are *so* intuitive?)

Anyway, he said most of his couples opted to either not get married as soon as they were planning, or to not marry or date at all. I have no doubt that his counseling style was a big deterent for many of the couples, simply because it''s hard to be open and act *real* when you feel like you''re under a magnifying glass.

On the other hand, some church-required counseling is *very* low-key and any couple who''s had any lengthy in-depth conversations can predict the things they''ll talk about: communication, money, family roles, sex, how you''ll raise the children (discipline), etc. The basics.

When I had pre-marital counseling *all three sessions of it* for a brief time, I LOVED it. We knew what we''d be talking about, had packets to work through, together and alone, and it was just really rewarding to see what sort of personality you had, and how that fit into communication styles, conflict resolution, and where trouble areas may be. What happened for me though, was that he didn''t do *any* of the packets on his own, so eventually the counselor had us do them *in the office.* It was a personality profile, and it had to be sent off. By the time it came back, I realized that I''d cried, pried, and tried long enough to make something work that was sucking all the happy, bubbly me out of me.

And guess what the profile said about me when I got it back? Exactly that. It said I needed to be in a relationship where I didn''t feel like I was constantly tugging and pushing and begging my partner to be there for me, that I wanted someone who''d go the extra mile for me without a second thought, just as I do in relationships. It also said that I tend to have fairytale ideals for a relationship. *Who, me?* The thing is, now I feel like I''m in the midst of a fairytale, fully grounded in reality. I hope that makes sense. What I mean is that I know we have hurdles and areas to grow in, but I look forward to those, because they only make us stronger, more informed about the other, and more in love. So, it''s a fairytale loving him, with reality mixed in (he''s messy! ooh, he likes to pile things... and that gets on my last nerve, until I realize the bountiful positives in him, and I also see the effort he''s making in being more organized, for my sanity). Anyway, that''s a fairytale in real life: loving someone out of your mind, with all their faults included.

A friend of mine is a pastor and they use the same guidelines for each couple. *Someone said something about not wanting to go in, not knowing what will be discussed.* The way he does it is at each session, something new pertaining to marriage, the commitment of it, the reality of it, the stress of it, the sacrament of it, what have you, but if the couple seems really grappling for more information on it, more time to talk and discuss, he''ll just continue it in the next session. I think you should be able to expect to know what''s coming next. Most counselors are open, since they expect you to be the same way.

 

[akw94]

Fisher, it sounds like you have really found the right guy for you. That is wonderful! I like the idea of having materials to work on before the sessions. I don''t know how good I would be talking on the spot about something pretty deep or difficult or even something that I just hadn''t considered before. I kind of need my own time to analyze and think things through before I can communicate them to others. Of course, I am working on my communication skills b/c sometimes I think I freeze rather than just find a way to get it out.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Yeah, we all can be that way. Building rapport has to come first with counselors, before any *headway* is made.

 

[diamondlil]

My now-husband and I were married in my Catholic church. Because my now-husband is not Catholic, it was required that we go to counseling for the 6 months prior to the wedding. We were both agreeable and saw it as a good learning experience.

Looking back now, I would recommend it to ALL couples, religious or not. We came out of those sessions knowing so much more about each other, on a much deeper level, than we would have after years of marriage!!!!! In our case, we were both on the same path and had the same expectations of our commitment.

We are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June. I still look back on those days in counseling as the best wedding gift we could have received.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/28/2006 4:55:16 PM
Author: DiamondLil
My now-husband and I were married in my Catholic church. Because my now-husband is not Catholic, it was required that we go to counseling for the 6 months prior to the wedding. We were both agreeable and saw it as a good learning experience.

Looking back now, I would recommend it to ALL couples, religious or not. We came out of those sessions knowing so much more about each other, on a much deeper level, than we would have after years of marriage!!!!! In our case, we were both on the same path and had the same expectations of our commitment.

We are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June. I still look back on those days in counseling as the best wedding gift we could have received.

Same here. But, wow, my Priest must have been slack. We were required to go to about 6 sessions. Hubby was groaning about it orginially thinking that the priest would try to brainwash him into being Catholic.

He was surprised at how "every day normal life stuff" we discussed. The first thing out of the Priest's mouth was "So, who's going to handle the checkbook." Practical stuff that sometimes you over look as MAJOR issues.
I'd recommend it to anyone. How can it hurt in the long run?

edited to add - part of the whole exercise is to find common ground. It doesn't focus on the differences as much.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Exactly! It hits on *so* much, and not all of it is *deep,* nor is it always *pleasant,* but I still look forward to next Saturday. It''s fun, and self-discovery and couple-discovery excites me, makes me feel all the closer to the man I love.

Diamondslil... I like what you said about it being the best wedding gift you received. I agree. (Or, the best non-wedding gift, when things aren''t right).

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Fisher- what a timely thread!

FI and I just signed up for Engaged Encounter today. It's a weekend retreat run by the Catholic church. We were both raised Catholic (i went to Catholic school for 15 years!), but we no longer practice (can't remember the last time I'm been to church). I like to say that I'm a "recovering Catholic".

We're not getting married by the church, but really wanted to do some type of pre-marital counseling. This seemed to be the best bet for us. I heard it's not too Catholic-centric, and it's open to all (including defectors like me!)

We're scheduled to go in late June- 3 months before the wedding.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Oh wow, Chargergrrl! Will you tell us about it, once you finish?

I do hope it does you good!

 

[diamond_quester]

The topic came up but we do not plan to do it. That is definitely not because we think "counseling is for losers" or any such thing. Counseling seems like a great idea for many people. Among our friends who went to counseling (some because of the church and some because they wanted to), a few felt it was useful and most did not feel that they got much out of it. If you have been dating for several years (think 4, 6, or even longer) of your adult lives and have discussed this and that aspect of your marriage over that time, it doesn't seem like there is much else to learn about the other person with respect to creating a stronger marriage.

 

[diamondlil]

Date: 4/28/2006 5:32:45 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 4/28/2006 4:55:16 PM
Author: DiamondLil
My now-husband and I were married in my Catholic church. Because my now-husband is not Catholic, it was required that we go to counseling for the 6 months prior to the wedding. We were both agreeable and saw it as a good learning experience.

Looking back now, I would recommend it to ALL couples, religious or not. We came out of those sessions knowing so much more about each other, on a much deeper level, than we would have after years of marriage!!!!! In our case, we were both on the same path and had the same expectations of our commitment.

We are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June. I still look back on those days in counseling as the best wedding gift we could have received.

Same here. But, wow, my Priest must have been slack. We were required to go to about 6 sessions. Hubby was groaning about it orginially thinking that the priest would try to brainwash him into being Catholic.

He was surprised at how ''every day normal life stuff'' we discussed. The first thing out of the Priest''s mouth was ''So, who''s going to handle the checkbook.'' Practical stuff that sometimes you over look as MAJOR issues.
I''d recommend it to anyone. How can it hurt in the long run?

edited to add - part of the whole exercise is to find common ground. It doesn''t focus on the differences as much.

I think we only met once every other week, and it was just the two of us and the priest, not a group thing. Religion was NOT discussed. We had a workbook and were sent home with assignments to be completed before the next meeting.

 

[ilovesparkles]

Fisher - that personality test thing sounds awesome. I don''t suppose its something your average person like myself can get a hold of? Do you remember the name of it by chance?

 

[~*Alexis*~]

We might. He laughed when I suggested we go to counseling now, so I dont think he is into that type of thing. Since we have been in a rough patch lately I am not holding my breath at this point.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Ilovesparkles,

I don''t remember the packet''s name, but I still have the print-out results. Maybe something is written on them. I''ll check. I have to find the print out first (I kept it because it just *nailed* me).

 

[upgrading mama]

Hi ladies,
I have never posted in this forum, as I am not a LIW, but since I am married I just wanted to add my 2cents.

I would definately reccomend premarriage counciling, especially (but not only if) you don''t live together prior to marriage.

I think the expectations of who will do what in the home, and to run the home, are things that aren''t really shared and are very important. Even intimate things like expectations in the bedroom, which of course men have higher expectations here....hahaaa

Even though we dated for 2 yrs before we were married, things definately were different after marriage. We now had financial and household issues that we didn''t have before, since we didn''t live together...

Anyway, that is my 2 cents and now I will go back to admiring rings in the SMTR forum!!!! haha

 

[diamondfan]

I am also not a LIW but wanted to mention that I think, whatever might help you learn vital things is worth checking into. With the divorce rate so high, clearly it cannot hurt. I was so surprised about some girls I knew back in LA when I was younger. A couple of them married and wanted to start having kids. One husband said, But I never said I wanted kids...Well, in her mind he never said he DIDN''T...oh my God miscommunication...Another husband said, I told you I did not want kids, and she replied Well, I thought once we were married you would change your mind!!! I am not sure if the couples are still together (it has been a long time)...Communcating is such a huge part of marriage success to me....and if there are things you do not know about your spouse to be, isn''t it best to find out before the wedding? Usually it is not huge stuff, or can be easily resolved, but some things simply leave two people at an impasse, and troubles can build from there. I just think it is worth the time if you can manage it!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/28/2006 9:04:35 PM
Author: DiamondLil

Date: 4/28/2006 5:32:45 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 4/28/2006 4:55:16 PM
Author: DiamondLil
My now-husband and I were married in my Catholic church. Because my now-husband is not Catholic, it was required that we go to counseling for the 6 months prior to the wedding. We were both agreeable and saw it as a good learning experience.

Looking back now, I would recommend it to ALL couples, religious or not. We came out of those sessions knowing so much more about each other, on a much deeper level, than we would have after years of marriage!!!!! In our case, we were both on the same path and had the same expectations of our commitment.

We are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary in June. I still look back on those days in counseling as the best wedding gift we could have received.

Same here. But, wow, my Priest must have been slack. We were required to go to about 6 sessions. Hubby was groaning about it orginially thinking that the priest would try to brainwash him into being Catholic.

He was surprised at how ''every day normal life stuff'' we discussed. The first thing out of the Priest''s mouth was ''So, who''s going to handle the checkbook.'' Practical stuff that sometimes you over look as MAJOR issues.
I''d recommend it to anyone. How can it hurt in the long run?

edited to add - part of the whole exercise is to find common ground. It doesn''t focus on the differences as much.

I think we only met once every other week, and it was just the two of us and the priest, not a group thing. Religion was NOT discussed. We had a workbook and were sent home with assignments to be completed before the next meeting.

Yeah, we met just with the priest also. I think you had your choice. You could go on a retreat with other couples or meet individual. We did discuss religion only to open a discussion about it. I remeber the priest said it was something to open up dialogue NOW because even though we were ambivilent about the whole thing then, when couples had children - religion (which or lack there of) became much more of an issue. True enough with my friends once they had children.

I''m with you. It was a great gift. In the end, we didn''t learn much more about each other - just a great lead in resolving conflict & living every day life as partners.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I''ve never really considered doing it; however we have sat down and had many "who will handle the money, how do we want to raise the children, when do you want them, what sort of religious life do we want" discussions for about the past year. We didn''t even really realize we were doing it.

I also have been asking the people I know in long term successful marriages (or that have had them in the past) what the most important thing for them was.

His grandparents (just had their 60th) told me "you have to be willing to compromise and be wrong,"

my father told be "be honest, but not brutal, and hold up your end of the bargain"

my mother told me "People are always the most polite to others. Don''t do that. Be the most polite, helpful, and caring towards those you love. Never undercut them to "be funny" or make yourself look good in front of friends."

my grandmother sighed, looked at my grandfather telling the architect what to do (read bossing him around), and said "Sometimes you just have to be quiet."

 

[rainbowtrout]

Oh, and I''m of the view that women tend to get stuck with the housework because they won''t be clear about what they want done. So from before he moved in I was very clear that HE would be doing the vaccuming, I would cook, he would do all the dishes, I clean the bathroom, we do seperate laundry. I have learned that if you want a man to clean you have to accept that he will do it HIS way. You can ask for a certain standard but it''s unrealistic to expect them to do it a certain way. I mean, I would hate it if he told me to cook "better."

Seperation of labor (i.e. not rotating chores) seems to be most efficent for us. However niether of us believes in dusting, so that sort of gets left out.... must do that before the parents visit.

Anyway I guess this my take on "self-counseling"....sorry if this seems thread-jacky,

 

[diamondlil]

Fire&ice,
Just a curious question about your counseling since yours was also through the Catholic church. At the end of your counseling, were you required to sign a paper stating that you were committed to raising any children you might have, in the Catholic faith? I don''t want to scare anyone out of counseling, but that is the ONLY thing that I really was not happy about at the end of our sessions. I was assured that I would not be tracked down and no one would show up at my door in the future to make sure I was abiding to *the paper*, but signing it really bugged me. I signed it, of course, and we were married in the my church with a full mass but no communion. That worked out well since one group of our invitees were Jewish, and I was afraid of making them uncomfortable.

 

[diamondlil]

Date: 4/28/2006 11:40:49 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am also not a LIW but wanted to mention that I think, whatever might help you learn vital things is worth checking into. With the divorce rate so high, clearly it cannot hurt. I was so surprised about some girls I knew back in LA when I was younger. A couple of them married and wanted to start having kids. One husband said, But I never said I wanted kids...Well, in her mind he never said he DIDN''T...oh my God miscommunication...Another husband said, I told you I did not want kids, and she replied Well, I thought once we were married you would change your mind!!! I am not sure if the couples are still together (it has been a long time)...Communcating is such a huge part of marriage success to me....and if there are things you do not know about your spouse to be, isn''t it best to find out before the wedding? Usually it is not huge stuff, or can be easily resolved, but some things simply leave two people at an impasse, and troubles can build from there. I just think it is worth the time if you can manage it!

No wonder the divorce rate is what it is if young ladies are so focused on getting their man down the isle, they forget that who the man REALLY is will NOT change with a piece of paper. If issues such as having children are not discussed during the courtship phase of a relationship, then you have no business getting married. Sorry if I offend anyone by saying that.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 4/29/2006 1:03:02 PM
Author: DiamondLil
Fire&ice,
Just a curious question about your counseling since yours was also through the Catholic church. At the end of your counseling, were you required to sign a paper stating that you were committed to raising any children you might have, in the Catholic faith? I don''t want to scare anyone out of counseling, but that is the ONLY thing that I really was not happy about at the end of our sessions. I was assured that I would not be tracked down and no one would show up at my door in the future to make sure I was abiding to *the paper*, but signing it really bugged me. I signed it, of course, and we were married in the my church with a full mass but no communion. That worked out well since one group of our invitees were Jewish, and I was afraid of making them uncomfortable.

No, and at the time we married many of the more liberal priests weren''t requiring that. It was quite controversial & I think my hubby told the priest out front that he would not sign it - as he heard from others that he would have to. I *do* remember having to promise to raise our children Christian or have them baptised - not limiting it to the Catholic religion. Since both of us were Christians, we didn''t have an issue. Hubby remembers signing something. I remember it being verbal. I think he remembers signing the marital license. I think the couseling was called "Pre-cannon". We did not have communion or a full mass.

 

[ilovesparkles]

Thanks fisher I would so appreciate that! I love those kinds of tests! And my BF and I do have things that need to be worked on. Money especially! Because I don''t see it as the end all but he obsesses over it!

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 4/29/2006 1:14:08 PM
Author: DiamondLil

Date: 4/28/2006 11:40:49 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am also not a LIW but wanted to mention that I think, whatever might help you learn vital things is worth checking into. With the divorce rate so high, clearly it cannot hurt. I was so surprised about some girls I knew back in LA when I was younger. A couple of them married and wanted to start having kids. One husband said, But I never said I wanted kids...Well, in her mind he never said he DIDN''T...oh my God miscommunication...Another husband said, I told you I did not want kids, and she replied Well, I thought once we were married you would change your mind!!! I am not sure if the couples are still together (it has been a long time)...Communcating is such a huge part of marriage success to me....and if there are things you do not know about your spouse to be, isn''t it best to find out before the wedding? Usually it is not huge stuff, or can be easily resolved, but some things simply leave two people at an impasse, and troubles can build from there. I just think it is worth the time if you can manage it!

No wonder the divorce rate is what it is if young ladies are so focused on getting their man down the isle, they forget that who the man REALLY is will NOT change with a piece of paper. If issues such as having children are not discussed during the courtship phase of a relationship, then you have no business getting married. Sorry if I offend anyone by saying that.

I agree! You would think that this might come up beforehand?! How can two people decide to marry and not know some of the basic life event issues that surround them? Just mind boggling. In both cases it was not discussed. The first, well, no, he did not say he DID NOT want kids, but the choice to have a family would seem a logical discussion topic...why she assumed it was just a given is a mystery. The other girl? Just dumb or misguided...to think marriage would alter his view...I guess in some cases, there are things that do undergo positive change after the wedding (i.e a bf who never helped with the dishes is now willing)...but to think someone''s stated desire about a having kids will change? It is so risky...if they truly do want them, you either have to leave or force the issue...a big mess all around.