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Need opinion! Ex girlfreind involved!

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stacyQ

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Hi guys, long time no see (been REAL busy). But I have an issue and need some of that excellent PS advivce! (Matatora, where are you????) Here is the sitch:
Back in January of this year, I noticed an phone number with an odd area code popping up on my boyfriends cell (we live together in 3 story townhouse, so I fetch his phone alot because I am faster on the stairs). He never answered the phone when this number appeared, ust let the voice mail get it. After two months of this person calling several times a week, and him never answering, I got suspicious and had a friend call the number. Just as I thought! His ex girlfriend. Now, back in December 05 I asked him point blank if he still talked to her, and he said no way (they broke up when he caught her cheating on him in a particularly nasty situation). I did some investigating by checking his online phone bill details and found out that he HAS been talking to her (while he is at work, only a couple times mind you, but there was talking, like 20 minutes worth). And a TON of texting back and forth. Needless to say, I was pissed!

His ex claims to be a lesbian now and has a girlfriend, but I know for a fact that she has proclaimed her everlasting love for my boyfriend on a public message board (he has never seen this, I found in my "investigation" of her) and wants him back. They had a two year relationship and broke up five months before we started dating. She is an avid party girl (and known around town for being "loose"), and he is a kind of "hometown celebrity" where I live, being an ex popular DJ and able to get into all of the good clubs as a VIP, and on this message board she continually boasts of her relationship with him and how he is still is her best friend and she gets "benefits", etc.....

Now, we don''t go out very often, as the both of us have real jobs now, so I KNOW he isn''t spending time with her. I confronted him with the phone calls only (because I didn''t want to look like the psycho investigatory nutbag that I really am by pulling out the internet stuff) and he claimed that he was just returning phonecalls and being polite to her and didn''t tell me about it because he thought it was no big deal (because he thinks so little of her). Now you guys tell me.......what kind of man feels like he needs to be polite to a woman who cheated on him? And I don''t buy the excuse he gave for not telling me, I think he might be hiding something. He swears up and down that they just talked about crap (like the fact that she just graduated from hair school) but one of the three converstations took place on a night I was out of town............

I JUST KNOW that she is trying to wheedle her way back into his life. I KNOW he isn''t cheating on me physically, but I have a problem with him lying to me about this person. He swears he will never answer the phone when she calls again, he says he understands that it looks bad and is extremely sorry for hurting my feelings. I just have a sneaking suspicion that something bad is going on. Any thoughts?
 

rainbowtrout

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if nothing is going on, maybe ask him if you guys could all go out to lunch together? Why can''t you know her too?

It sounds a little odd that he wasn''t open about it with you...
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
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Do guys know ANYTHING?
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Communication with Miss EX needs to stop, now. All calls, text messages, emails. If he needs to answer the phone one more time to tell her to STOP calling, then so be it. This is not a healthy situation for you to be in, and if he loves you (and of course he does!) he'll do what makes you comfortable, even if it means severing ties with this girl forever.
 

blodthecat

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Date: 3/9/2006 12:25:15 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
if nothing is going on, maybe ask him if you guys could all go out to lunch together? Why can't you know her too?

It sounds a little odd that he wasn't open about it with you...
You're joking aren't you?

Let's All go out together, and have a meal with the lass that's trying to make a play for my BF. Sorry, but I don't think so.

You need to have a serious talk with your BF. Relationships are built on honesty and trust. If you don't have that...then what do you have?

There's no sugar coating this. Loyalty is everything in a relationship.

None of us want chocolate money, we all want the real thing (love, commitment and honesty)

Time to have a serious talk.

Blod
 

stacyQ

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Okay, good, good, I am hearing from you guys what my head is saying (too bad my feelings are still screaming vengeance!). He agreed to stop all communication with her and tell me when she calls (even if he doesn''t answer the phone).

And I told him that if he was going to continue to be friends with her, I had to meet her, and he said he didn''t even want to to be friends with her really and would rather stop talking to her altogether. But that still doesn''t explain why he would return her phone calls in the first place.........

Maybe I am over-analyzing this!
 

Caribou

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My boyfriend still talks to his EX, not alot and she''s the one e-mailing him, but he tells me when he does which makes me not care, I mean, sure it annoys me but not on his end. If he never told me it would make me feel insecure about it.

What I don''t get is, why does he not answer her calls if you are around? I mean, I''m sure it''s because you
wouldn''t like it but would you feel better about it if he didn''t ''hide it''? I would think so.

What is your gut feeling? I find it all odd. I say talk to him more about it....ask him how he would feel if you were still talking to your EX. Tell him you don''t like, see how he reacts to that.

How long have the two of you been dating?
 

rainbowtrout

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I was joking in the sense that hey, if it really is just a friendship, everyone should be able to be together in one room. I.e., if they are "just talking," it shouldn''t be talking he would be uncomfortable doing in front of her.


If it *isn''t,* and it doesn''t seem to be, then he should stop talking to her.


I do think that dictating "you shall not talk to anyone you were formally involved with bc it makes me uncomfortable" can go too far. Sometimes you *can* be friends with an ex, but in that case you should be totally comfortable having them around your current interest since there should be nothing to hide. I''ve gone out to dinner with the boyfriend and and old guy and his new girlfriend before...
 

allycat0303

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Ok well I`m extreme so disregard this part, but for me personally, this is a deal breaker with my boyfriend. If he`s not honest about stuff like that, I`d be more then happy to GIVE him to his ex in a gift wrapped package.

Honestly, I think you need to have a REALLY serious talk with him. Lay it all out, explain what you find acceptable or not in terms of communicating etc. with ex girlfriend. I find really suspicious that he doesn`t answer the phone in front of you. If he has nothing to hide, he should feel comfortable talking to her when you are around.
 

E B

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Date: 3/9/2006 12:41:23 PM
Author: stacyQ
Okay, good, good, I am hearing from you guys what my head is saying (too bad my feelings are still screaming vengeance!). He agreed to stop all communication with her and tell me when she calls (even if he doesn't answer the phone).

And I told him that if he was going to continue to be friends with her, I had to meet her, and he said he didn't even want to to be friends with her really and would rather stop talking to her altogether. But that still doesn't explain why he would return her phone calls in the first place.........

Maybe I am over-analyzing this!
You're a braver woman than I am....I wouldn't put up with "friendship" for a second, especially if the girl was trying to get back into his life. People break up for a reason, and friendships do NOT need to be maintained if it makes the girlfriend uncomfortable. Period.

Sometimes, guys just have to make a choice. BOOOOO HOOOO.
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stacyQ

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We have been together for about a year and a half in a seriously committed realtionship. My gut tells me he is innocent, but I have been burned quite a few times and I have a tendency to overanalyze and want answers for everything so I still have deep feelings that if he really respected me he would have told me up front. I have made it clear to him that if he is involved in another mistruth involving another woman (no matter how trivial) that he is gone. Period.

And you are right, I have made it clear from the get go that I prefer the truth, no matter how bad. I am a pretty easygoing person and not typically jealous, but his behavior surrounding this sitch has made me CRAZY!
 

stacyQ

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Date: 3/9/2006 12:44:56 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 3/9/2006 12:41:23 PM
Author: stacyQ
Okay, good, good, I am hearing from you guys what my head is saying (too bad my feelings are still screaming vengeance!). He agreed to stop all communication with her and tell me when she calls (even if he doesn''t answer the phone).

And I told him that if he was going to continue to be friends with her, I had to meet her, and he said he didn''t even want to to be friends with her really and would rather stop talking to her altogether. But that still doesn''t explain why he would return her phone calls in the first place.........

Maybe I am over-analyzing this!
You''re a braver woman than I am....I wouldn''t put up with ''friendship'' for a second, especially if the girl was trying to get back into his life. People break up for a reason, and friendships do NOT need to be maintained if it makes the girlfriend uncomfortable. Period.

Sometimes, guys just have to make a choice. BOOOOO HOOOO.
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OMG! I told him the same thing! I said "DOn''t worry about your next girlfriend getting pissed off because you are texting and calling me, because when I leave someone for being crappy to me, I don''t need that person as a friend!"
 

stacyQ

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He has no clue she is trying to get back with him, the blockhead! I never told him that I found that stuff on the message board (makes me look WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too crazy). But I explained to him that if she were really happy in her new lesbian relationship, then why is she calling him more than I talk to some of my good friends I am open about? Even if she is calling to gloat over hapiness, it still serves a purpose, one that WE DON"T NEED IN THE RELATIONSHIP!!!!!!!

Alright, got the vent out, thanks guys. You all are so smart
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blodthecat

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Hi Stacey,

I agree with allycat. This definitely is a deal breaker.

You are obviously very serious about this relationship, and have been hurt in the past.

Your BF needs to decide whether he is ready to commit to someone, or whether his ego still likes the attension of other women.

How do you think he would feel, if the boot was on the other foot? EXACTLY!

Be cool about this...and don't get too emotional or upset. State your case, and tell him the relationship isn't big enough for three! I think he needs to wake up and smell the coffee. What women would feel comfortable with this situation?

You have done nothing wrong....don't put up with this.
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good luck....Blod
 

Caribou

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Date: 3/9/2006 12:53:07 PM
Author: stacyQ
Even if she is calling to gloat over hapiness, it still serves a purpose, one that WE DON''T NEED IN THE RELATIONSHIP!!!!!!!

Alright, got the vent out, thanks guys. You all are so smart
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I agree, it annoys me when my FI Ex contacts him....because there really is no purpose for it. They dated for 6 years, she didn''t want to end the relationship so my thinking is she regrets it ending. I mean, he''s a great guy, anyone would be lucky to have him.
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Now he''s with someone new and within 10 months of dating we get engaged, (she knows all about me he told her he''s happier than he''s ever been) so I''m thinking she contacts him hoping he''ll say we are no longer together. Boy did she have a rude awakening.
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Anywho, EX''s can be a huge pain in the arse and I see no point in continuing relationships with them. Like you said they serve no purpose.

As long as you trust him and he ends it, than no worries.
 

AmberWaves

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Satcy, I am just like you- I immediately overanalyze and start fretting. Also, I would totally be like, no no no... it''s done with, and the next time she called, I''d pick up his phone and tell her that I appreciate her trying to make sure he''s doing well after her betrayal, but now I''M here to take care of him, so we wouldn''t be needing her services anymore. And then have my boyfriend tell her not to call anymore, and "Goodbye!" Don''t let the door hit ya!
 

firebirdgold

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I know it's probably because you've been burned in the past.. No offense, but the way you reacted to those phone calls is not a great sign. I'm confused as to why you resorted to having a friend call the number to find out it was the ex. Why not just ask him straight out? And why didn't he tell you the first couple of times you handed him the cell with her still ringing on it?
With my bf and I, pretty much whenever one of our phones ring (partic if we ignore it), the other will ask "who was that?". Heck, even my parents do that. And most of the time my bf will say 'oh that was chris, he called about such and such' before I even ask. Maybe we're just more into each other's life than is normal, I don't know. But both of your behaviors struck me as odd.
 

princessv

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Date: 3/9/2006 1:15:11 PM
Author: Wren
I know it''s probably because you''ve been burned in the past.. No offense, but the way you reacted to those phone calls is not a great sign. I''m confused as to why you resorted to having a friend call the number to find out it was the ex. Why not just ask him straight out? And why didn''t he tell you the first couple of times you handed him the cell with her still ringing on it?
With my bf and I, pretty much whenever one of our phones ring (partic if we ignore it), the other will ask ''who was that?''. Heck, even my parents do that. And most of the time my bf will say ''oh that was chris, he called about such and such'' before I even ask. Maybe we''re just more into each other''s life than is normal, I don''t know. But both of your behaviors struck me as odd.
I don''t know about that. It''s gotten to the point where my guy and I do ask each other ''who was that'' but before we didn''t really used to. His ex used to call and he wouldn''t really tell me about it and so it made me quite uncomfortable. Then, I set my foot down one day.

Being friends with an ex that cheated on you spells trouble. I''d put an end to it now.

Also, stacy you mentioned txt messages. Any way you can check those? Yeah...I''ve been burned, cheated on before too and I had a feeling for a long time, but went to all lengths to truly bust the guy.
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stacyQ

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Date: 3/9/2006 1:15:11 PM
Author: Wren
I know it''s probably because you''ve been burned in the past.. No offense, but the way you reacted to those phone calls is not a great sign. I''m confused as to why you resorted to having a friend call the number to find out it was the ex. Why not just ask him straight out? And why didn''t he tell you the first couple of times you handed him the cell with her still ringing on it?
With my bf and I, pretty much whenever one of our phones ring (partic if we ignore it), the other will ask ''who was that?''. Heck, even my parents do that. And most of the time my bf will say ''oh that was chris, he called about such and such'' before I even ask. Maybe we''re just more into each other''s life than is normal, I don''t know. But both of your behaviors struck me as odd.
Well, I asked him in January when I first noticed th number if he still talked to he and he said no (which was lie, I later found out). I had a friend call, because if the ex is calling to cause trouble in our relationship, I didn''t want to give her the satisfaction of knowing that I had to check up on my SO when she gets a strange phone call from a woman in our area code (OR, that he wasn''t being truthful to me about everything, just gives her more of a reason to keep calling because her "break up" plan is working). I was trying to be stealthy!

But your''e right about my suspicious behavior. And if he says he isn''t going to talk to her anymore, then I won''t check the phone bill. Which he did.
 

stacyQ

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Date: 3/9/2006 1:25:21 PM
Author: Princess V

Date: 3/9/2006 1:15:11 PM
Author: Wren
I know it''s probably because you''ve been burned in the past.. No offense, but the way you reacted to those phone calls is not a great sign. I''m confused as to why you resorted to having a friend call the number to find out it was the ex. Why not just ask him straight out? And why didn''t he tell you the first couple of times you handed him the cell with her still ringing on it?
With my bf and I, pretty much whenever one of our phones ring (partic if we ignore it), the other will ask ''who was that?''. Heck, even my parents do that. And most of the time my bf will say ''oh that was chris, he called about such and such'' before I even ask. Maybe we''re just more into each other''s life than is normal, I don''t know. But both of your behaviors struck me as odd.
I don''t know about that. It''s gotten to the point where my guy and I do ask each other ''who was that'' but before we didn''t really used to. His ex used to call and he wouldn''t really tell me about it and so it made me quite uncomfortable. Then, I set my foot down one day.

Being friends with an ex that cheated on you spells trouble. I''d put an end to it now.

Also, stacy you mentioned txt messages. Any way you can check those? Yeah...I''ve been burned, cheated on before too and I had a feeling for a long time, but went to all lengths to truly bust the guy.
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You are right. I laid down the law, he accepted my terms, and now all I can do is wait and see if he follows through. But it is nice to know that other people have gone through the same thing. I was starting to think that my SO had no respect for me by doing what he did, but you guys have helped me to see that he is just thickheaded.
 

E B

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Date: 3/9/2006 1:27:09 PM
Author: stacyQ
Well, I asked him in January when I first noticed th number if he still talked to he and he said no (which was lie, I later found out). I had a friend call, because if the ex is calling to cause trouble in our relationship, I didn't want to give her the satisfaction of knowing that I had to check up on my SO when she gets a strange phone call from a woman in our area code (OR, that he wasn't being truthful to me about everything, just gives her more of a reason to keep calling because her 'break up' plan is working). I was trying to be stealthy!

But your'e right about my suspicious behavior. And if he says he isn't going to talk to her anymore, then I won't check the phone bill. Which he did.
Sorry about your suspicious behavior? Don't be! If he lied to you once before, I would have done exactly what you did. If it comes to checking a phone bill (without letting him know, of course) every once in awhile just to make sure he's telling the truth, I don't see a d*mn thing wrong with it. You want to make sure your boyfriend is completely truthful with you before committing (future engagement, marriage), and sometimes, blind trust isn't enough. Sorry, I'm a realist.
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stacyQ

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Date: 3/9/2006 1:31:54 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 3/9/2006 1:27:09 PM
Author: stacyQ
Well, I asked him in January when I first noticed th number if he still talked to he and he said no (which was lie, I later found out). I had a friend call, because if the ex is calling to cause trouble in our relationship, I didn''t want to give her the satisfaction of knowing that I had to check up on my SO when she gets a strange phone call from a woman in our area code (OR, that he wasn''t being truthful to me about everything, just gives her more of a reason to keep calling because her ''break up'' plan is working). I was trying to be stealthy!

But your''e right about my suspicious behavior. And if he says he isn''t going to talk to her anymore, then I won''t check the phone bill. Which he did.
Sorry about your suspicious behavior? Don''t be! If he lied to you once before, I would have done exactly what you did. If it comes to checking a phone bill (without letting him know, of course) every once in awhile just to make sure he''s telling the truth, I don''t see a d*mn thing wrong with it. You want to make sure your boyfriend is completely truthful with you before committing (future engagement, marriage), and sometimes, blind trust isn''t enough. Sorry, I''m a realist.
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Well, that is unspoken! I am trying to appear like a decent girlfriend here! Look at what I did the first time around, you KNOW I am gonna keep checking the phone bill for years to come
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Caribou

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I agree, I see nothing wrong with what StacyQ did. If he lied to her already, going to him again with out proof isn''t going to help. You gotta cover your back.

Now if you are constantly doing this throughout you relationship, than yes there is something wrong with the relationship, lack of trust going on.
 

aphisiglovessae

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How long have you been dating? I know that I had this issue with my fiance when we first started dating, on both our parts of the relationship. It lasted almost a year. The reason why, is because I was with my ex for over 4 years and he was with his for over three years. It's hard to just drop a person like that and act like they don't exist. We were still in love with our ex-es even though we knew that we were better off without them. We got together very shortly after our breakups, like you, and we needed more time to get these people out of our system. Granted, neither one of us cheated. However, we did try to be civil and kind to our ex-es, and had very short conversations with them if they happened to call. We did have talks about the situation and eventually agreed that neither of us were comfortable with the other talking to their ex. When we fell in love and felt secure in the relationship, it no longer bothered us as much if the other's ex would call. We basically stopped holding conversations with them, and told them that we would appreciate it if they didn't call anymore. As a result, we're getting married and we haven't heard from our ex-es in like 2 years!

It takes time, but if you KNOW he's not cheating, I wouldn't stress too much about it. I would definitely talk to him about it though and let him know that you're uncomfortable with it. Don't accuse him of anything or come off that way. Just say "I know you still talk to her and I trust you, but I'm just uncomfortable with it." Hopefully he'll stop.

ETA: WOW! There was a lot of posts while I was writing this! So I missed out on some info. Sorry. Now I know how long you've been together.
 

esguy27

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From a guy''s perspective, the fact that you violated his privacy could be a deal breaker. Have you told him the lengths you have gone to investigate him?
 

aljdewey

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Date: 3/9/2006 12:15:53 PM
Author:stacyQ

Now, back in December 05 I asked him point blank if he still talked to her, and he said no way (they broke up when he caught her cheating on him in a particularly nasty situation). I did some investigating by checking his online phone bill details and found out that he HAS been talking to her (while he is at work, only a couple times mind you, but there was talking, like 20 minutes worth). And a TON of texting back and forth.
To me, this is a real, real problem. The LIE is the problem.

Even if you were to give benefit of the doubt and buy his excuse ("he claimed that he was just returning phonecalls and being polite to her and didn''t tell me about it because he thought it was no big deal."), still a problem. I can see him saying to himself when the calls began "well, why bring it up...it''s only going to upset Stacy." Fine.......UNTIL the moment you *asked* him if he was still talking to her.

At that point, he chose to tell a lie. If it were really no big deal, that would have been the time to say "As a matter of fact, yes. She''s been calling me incessantly lately, and I''ve talked to her in hopes of discouraging this behavior ongoing."

I can *possibly* understand him not bringing it up, but when point-blank asked about it, he lied to you. That, for me, would be a tough thing to get by, and I''d really have to rethink my relationship in this situation. That''s just me personally......I cannot build a relationship on doubts and lack of trust, and once this door is opened, it''s mighty hard to close it.
 

aphisiglovessae

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Date: 3/9/2006 2:07:33 PM
Author: esguy27
From a guy's perspective, the fact that you violated his privacy could be a deal breaker. Have you told him the lengths you have gone to investigate him?
I kind of agree, but if you are in a serious relationship, there shouldn't be secrets like this. I guess it's wrong on both parts: Him for keeping the fact that he talks to her from you, and you for "investigating" him and sticking your nose in places he doesn't want you to. This also happened in my relationship. I peeked in his email and found something that I didn't like. It was VERY WRONG on my part, but he shouldn't have kept stuff like that from me either. We talked about it and admitted we were both wrong in the situation and we're past it now. As a result, I no longer snoop and he didn't change any passwords or anything to keep me out.

ETA: I didn't peek in his email looking for dirt. I was actually trying to delete an email I sent to him that was unfinished. I wasn't trying to be sneaky, but something caught my eye. Kinda like when your sister's diary happens to fall off her desk and open up on the floor. Something catches your eye and the little devil on your shoulder ends up winning....
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TOTALLY TERRIBLE OF ME TO DO!!
 

Caribou

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Date: 3/9/2006 2:07:33 PM
Author: esguy27
From a guy''s perspective, the fact that you violated his privacy could be a deal breaker. Have you told him the lengths you have gone to investigate him?
From a guy''s prespective please give us a logical explain for him lying to her.
 

aphisiglovessae

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Date: 3/9/2006 2:13:14 PM
Author: aljdewey


Date: 3/9/2006 12:15:53 PM
Author:stacyQ

Now, back in December 05 I asked him point blank if he still talked to her, and he said no way (they broke up when he caught her cheating on him in a particularly nasty situation). I did some investigating by checking his online phone bill details and found out that he HAS been talking to her (while he is at work, only a couple times mind you, but there was talking, like 20 minutes worth). And a TON of texting back and forth.
To me, this is a real, real problem. The LIE is the problem.

Even if you were to give benefit of the doubt and buy his excuse ('he claimed that he was just returning phonecalls and being polite to her and didn't tell me about it because he thought it was no big deal.'), still a problem. I can see him saying to himself when the calls began 'well, why bring it up...it's only going to upset Stacy.' Fine.......UNTIL the moment you *asked* him if he was still talking to her.

At that point, he chose to tell a lie. If it were really no big deal, that would have been the time to say 'As a matter of fact, yes. She's been calling me incessantly lately, and I've talked to her in hopes of discouraging this behavior ongoing.'

I can *possibly* understand him not bringing it up, but when point-blank asked about it, he lied to you. That, for me, would be a tough thing to get by, and I'd really have to rethink my relationship in this situation. That's just me personally......I cannot build a relationship on doubts and lack of trust, and once this door is opened, it's mighty hard to close it.
To play devil's advocate a little here:

Maybe he lied because he was backed in a corner and didn't know what to say. I'm sure he knew that if he said yes, she would be livid. Guys don't think about things before they act or say things. We don't really know how she approached him with this and if she seemed very threatening he probably just took the easy way out for the time being.

ETA: I'm sure guys aren't the only ones who may do this. I know I've been guilty of lying in the past because I felt threatened and acted on impulse.
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Caribou

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Date: 3/9/2006 2:18:19 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

To play devil's advocate a little here:

Maybe he lied because he was backed in a corner and didn't know what to say. I'm sure he knew that if he said yes, she would be livid. Guys don't think about things before they act or say things. We don't really know how she approached him with this and if she seemed very threatening he probably just took the easy way out for the time being.
In my opinion, that's not an excuse. He should have been upfront and honest with her about it. Yes maybe she would have been livid about it but now she has suspicsions that would not be there (maybe) if he was just honest.

Guys using our reaction too their honesty as a reason to lie is a poor excuse. It's like children lying to their parents because if they lie they will get to do what they want to do. Immature.

ETA: The thing is, if people in relationships would just stop and think 'how would I feel if my SO did this to me' then there wouldn't be lying going on relationships. If my EX called me, I would tell my FI because he does that for me even if he didn't I would tell him because I would want to know if his EX was calling me.
 

aphisiglovessae

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Date: 3/9/2006 2:21:34 PM
Author: Caribou


Date: 3/9/2006 2:18:19 PM
Author: aphisiglovessae

To play devil's advocate a little here:

Maybe he lied because he was backed in a corner and didn't know what to say. I'm sure he knew that if he said yes, she would be livid. Guys don't think about things before they act or say things. We don't really know how she approached him with this and if she seemed very threatening he probably just took the easy way out for the time being.
In my opinion, it's not an excuse. He should have been upfront and honest with her about it. Yes maybe she would have been livid about it but now she has suspicsions that would not be there (maybe) if he was just honest.

Guys using our reaction too their honesty as a reason to lie poor excuse. It's like children lying to their parents because if they lie they will get to do what they want to do. Immature.
I'm just saying that in a heat moment or what I like to call a "deer caught in headlights" moment, not everyone thinks about the consequences of their actions and what they should do. They just do the first thing that pops in their head, even though they realize later on that it's not right. And once that's realized, it's hard to take back what's already been done. I'm sure everyone has their own perspective on this, but I don't really think it's immature or anything. Just human nature.

I am in no way giving excuses for him. I'm just giving another perspective. I hated being one sided on things and I like to look at situations from ALL angles.

I've always been raised that you should never lie because the consequences will be worse if the lie is found out later, but like I said, I've slipped before and done it. Also, some people are not raised with such virtues. We don't really know what's going on in this guys head or what his intentions were. I just don't want to be burning him at the stake from the start. Like I said, they were BOTH wrong in their actions.
 
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