Did you find it hard to come to terms with the fact that you were a LIW?

[bobbin]

I apologise if this doesn''t make much sense...

I am a driven, intelligent, logical, feminist and fiercely independent woman. I decided when I was 13 that I wanted to be a lawyer and since then I have been slowly achieving my goals. When I was a teenager I didn''t even think I wanted to be married. I was much more concerned with my career, experiencing life and not being dependent on another person.

So when I woke up one day and decided that I really wanted to get engaged, like right now, it was a huge shock to me. Me, waiting on a MAN?? Never. I could not figure out for a long time why I wanted this so much, or why it was consuming my thoughts EVERY DAY.

Eventually I came to terms with it when I clarified in my mind why it was that I wanted to get married. But I still get frustrated with SO keeping me waiting because there isn''t anything I can do about it. There has never been anything else in my adult life that I have really wanted and not been able to find out how to achieve it, when I can achieve it by and then take steps to actually achieve it.

Has anyone else found it difficult to come to terms with their status as a LIW (for whatever reason)? How have you dealt with it?

 

[LilyKat]

I completely understand what you''re saying. I actually used to feel like that when I was single - as in, I made everything else in my life happen through hard work and commitment, so why was it so different to find someone I really liked romantically? Why were the rules so different in relationships compared to every other aspect of life?

I haven''t felt it so much as a LIW, and this is why: I don''t see the power as belonging totally to my boyfriend. I am not sitting around waiting for him to propose. I''ve made sure that he doesn''t know for certain what my answer will be if he asks me to marry him. He knows that as his girlfriend, if I''m unhappy with the relationship, I can still choose to leave - he hasn''t "got" me yet.

So my advice if you''re feeling frustrated with the wait would be, reframe your thoughts and stop "waiting". Focus on enjoying your relationship as it is currently. And remember that you have as much power in this relationship as him, in choosing to stay, and choosing to accept a proposal if and when he makes it.

 

[mochamamasita]

I completely understand how you feel. I''m a very pro-active person and when I want something, I go out and make it happen. I''m also the type of person who wants to have her life exactly planned out. It''s killing me that I have to just wait...and wait.....and wait for my boyfriend to propose. Logically speaking, I know that the wait will be worthwhile, but emotionally speaking, I want the proposal now.

In response to your question about how I deal with it..... I was able to get my boyfriend to give me a timeline regarding when he was going to propose. The timeline that he gave me was by March of next year, so the way that I deal with waiting is by counting down the months until March. (I''ve got 7 months to go).

 

[katamari]

It is why I turned to PS in the first place. Not only was I uncomfortable with it, but it was an emotion I really didn''t feel I could share with my like-minded, professional friends. I also really hated it because it represented so much gender inequality to me--he is expected to decide when the relationship is ready, he is expected to select the ring/date/circumstances, he is expected to finance the ring out of the expectation that he is the primary or sole earner in the relationship, etc. Even as a BIW now, I still feel it hard to come to terms with aspects of relationships and weddings and gender, etc.

I would recommend talking with your FI and explaining the extent of your feeling about it. I perhaps was in a better LIW situation because I basically knew FI was ready to marry when I was and there was relatively quick movement between stating my LIW and the proposal. But, I think I would have been resentful if he didn''t let me be a part of the entire process. I was very vocal about my feelings that it should be our actions and decisions regarding our relationship and he was luckily very receptive to this.

 

[HopeDream]

Thanks for posting Bobbin!

I feel very awkward and embarrassed about my sudden strong desire to get engaged despite my fiercely independent spirit - All my life I''d imagined myself as a content and self sufficient spinster wise woman with cats. I imagined working hard to support myself(and my cats) and make my fortune.

Then bam! it hits me - I want my perfect boyfriend of 3 years to have me as his wife.

WhaaaaT???? Oh my independence!! oh my self sufficience!!!! the agony!!!! the shaaaaamme!!! me, a self respecting independent being - shouldn''t I know better?

After some consideration I decided that there was no reason a change in relationship status should change the core of my being or the fundamentals of who I am....but I still feel sheepish.
In part I joined PS to reconcile myself with these new feelings.

I think this topic resonates with a bunch of the women here.
There seems to be a subtle undercurrent that marrying someone is un-feminist and devalues/diminishes a woman''s power and independence.

Here''s how I came to terms with that:

If marriage is viewed as a convenient institution for men in which a man acquires an indentured servant for life I''m sure any modern woman would run away.

If marriage is the commitment of two equal allies who love each other and who want to team up for a mutually supportive life of adventure and long term financial gain (singlehood being much more expensive)and possibly to reproduce(or not)- then there doesn''t seem to be anything in the arrangement that diminishes the value of either party - sign me up!

I''m sure there is something deeply rooted in our biology that drives us to seek committed partnership and we can no more stop it (through tenacity, careful planning and modern thinking)than we can stop our monthly cycles through force of will. We are animals despite modern societal or personal standards.

The human race has engaged in marriage across many many cultures for tens of thousands of years. In part this is the reason the human race has been so successful. That is a lot of history and genetics to try and alter armed only with modern feminist conviction.

The waiting on men thing is a huge drag!
Although the proposal could be viewed as culturally induced "man business" I think it relates more to male biology in that they are late bloomers when it comes to being ready to commit, so both parties must wait for him to be ready (cross-culturally men tend to marry later than women). Him being as ready to commit as her definitely improves the potential success of the relationship.

My guy is worth it so I will wait 90 years if necessary, but it does chafe so !

sheepishly hopeful about getting engaged,
HD

 

[suchende]

Great thread. Thank you OP and everyone who contributed their perspective.

 

[4ever]

Date: 8/13/2009 3:54:20 PM
Author: katamari
It is why I turned to PS in the first place. Not only was I uncomfortable with it, but it was an emotion I really didn''t feel I could share with my like-minded, professional friends. I also really hated it because it represented so much gender inequality to me--he is expected to decide when the relationship is ready, he is expected to select the ring/date/circumstances, he is expected to finance the ring out of the expectation that he is the primary or sole earner in the relationship, etc. Even as a BIW now, I still feel it hard to come to terms with aspects of relationships and weddings and gender, etc.

I would recommend talking with your FI and explaining the extent of your feeling about it. I perhaps was in a better LIW situation because I basically knew FI was ready to marry when I was and there was relatively quick movement between stating my LIW and the proposal. But, I think I would have been resentful if he didn''t let me be a part of the entire process. I was very vocal about my feelings that it should be our actions and decisions regarding our relationship and he was luckily very receptive to this.

I know what you mean. I feel like this tradition implys that getting the proposal is the desire and goal of all women. Of coruse the woman will say yes, all women are just so ready and eager to get married and make babies we are constantly on the edge of our seats waiting for a proposal. It''s not up to us if we WANT to get married, that''s a given, It''s if the MAN wants to.

 

[katomm]

Yes, it''s been a bit of a realization for me. I managed to do everything on my own and pay my way through getting a masters, buy a house, etc. I considered myself super independent and that I didn''t need anyone.

Then came BF and he made me realize I can let my guard down and let myself rely on someone else just a little. I didn''t think I''d be happy unless I did it all on my own and stressed myself out trying.

I realized early on that I wanted to marry him but being a LIW, like literally waiting to be proposed to has been strange. Hopefully the waiting will be over soon.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Yes, Yes, Yes! I woke up one day and was like, "Is this really me? Am I really this anxious to get this ring on my finger?" And then something inside me said "Yes." And I guess I had to accept it at that point. I don''t feel like it''s really changed who I am, or made me less independent. It''s just brought to the surface another little thing I''ve learned about myself.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

What gets to me is when other people try to make me feel ashamed for wanting to get married.
I''m independant, well educated, outspoken and driven, but somehow getting married makes me weak?
Some people.

 

[purselover]

Date: 8/14/2009 7:41:40 AM
Author: kribbie
What gets to me is when other people try to make me feel ashamed for wanting to get married.
I''m independant, well educated, outspoken and driven, but somehow getting married makes me weak?
Some people.

I totally agree, wanting to get married is nothing to be ashamed of! I have so many friends who have a hard time admitting that they want to get married b/c they feel it makes them desperate.

 

[bobbin]

Thanks for replying everyone.

Glad to see that I am not alone.

I also turned to PS because I could not talk about my feelings about this issue in real life. My friends are all highly educated, feminist women who seem to believe that marriage is a bad thing, and wanting to have children is a waste of an intelligent woman.

I have gently made my feelings known on the subject and now my closest friend is a bit more accepting, but I have definitely struggled a lot to reconcile this want and need to get married with my self identity.

Just to clarify, I am not in any way saying that it is shameful to get married, or that having children is a waste of an intelligent woman (as I wrote above that some of my friends think). Quite clearly, as I want to do it, it is very important to me and I completely understand why any woman would want to.

I think these feelings are a large factor in why I became quite resentful of SO. We had a very tough time earlier this year because of it.

 

[Lozza]

The hardest thing for me has been having no control over the situation. I, like some of the others have said, am the type to go out and get something if I want it. Now, I''m just waiting for him, with no set timeframe or deadline (it''s already been 7 years).

A friend said to me the other day "you must be so frustrated with the situation you find yourself if" and I was so upset, because I don''t usually find myself in a situation, I create them.