Vent, and advice needed

[aljdewey]

CJ, it is a difference of opinion. I was raised to act in ways that don't encroach on others, regardless of whether it's day or night, at home or out.

I started this thread to ask whether I should explain to my neighbours what happened, not to ask for people's opinions on whether my actions were correct or not. CJ suggested the note, I wrote it, taped it to their door, I assume they read it as it's no longer there and that's that.

I will step back from this thread, as all it's doing is reinforcing some negative perceptions I have about certain prevailing mentalities in this country. For the sake self-preservation, as I still have 5 weeks to go and might have to be back here at some point, I'd better go now.

Mayerling, I'm just really sorry you feel this way. I really do feel for your situation.

For what it's worth to you, I (raised here) was also taught to behave in ways that don't encroach on others, whether day or night, at home or out, and I recall nearly all my friends were taught the same things too. We were also taught not to expect that others were raised similarly, but they are still part of our community and we need to find a way to peacefully co-exist.

We were also raised to recognize that others' needs are just as important to them as ours are to us, and successful societal living achieves a balance between them, and that's something I value as well.

It's disappointing to hear that you hold negative perceptions of the ideologies here, so I hope that you'll feel more comfortable upon your return home. What I most hope is that you'll find some workaround options that are within your control (i.e. quiet places you can go with your son when he needs quiet, etc.) so you can more readily enjoy your time here.

 

[Indylady]

CJ, it is a difference of opinion. I was raised to act in ways that don't encroach on others, regardless of whether it's day or night, at home or out.

I started this thread to ask whether I should explain to my neighbours what happened, not to ask for people's opinions on whether my actions were correct or not. CJ suggested the note, I wrote it, taped it to their door, I assume they read it as it's no longer there and that's that.

I will step back from this thread, as all it's doing is reinforcing some negative perceptions I have about certain prevailing mentalities in this country. For the sake self-preservation, as I still have 5 weeks to go and might have to be back here at some point, I'd better go now.

By knocking on your neighbors door, and approaching the cleaning lady 3 times, you did act in a way that encroached on another.

What is the prevailing mentality? I think the prevailing mentality shown is this thread is respect for others, and in this case, respect for the cleaning woman that was just doing her job. It really seems that you don't have that respect for her or her job; would you knock on a doctor's door to see when he'll be finished with a patient? Would you keep knocking after the doctor answers, says, "I'm doing my job"? and closes the door behind him?

 

[zoebartlett]

So there are two issues: one with the cleaning woman and another with your neighbors moving around really early in the morning.

Maybe your neighbors work different hours than the typical 9-5 job, or maybe they travel for work and are just packing and gathering their things before heading out the door. Obviously this is conjecture -- I don't know their situation, I'm just putting it out there that they could have a good reason for their behavior. I don't understand why they'd need to move furniture at that hour though... Anyway, I'm assuming they're just going about their business and aren't aware they're bothering you.

I'm a really light sleeper and it would bug me to no end if I was woken up because of my neighbors' actions if my schedule was different from theirs. If the unit you're living in is part of a development, I'm assuming there's a document with rules and regulations. That's where you'd find info about appropriate noise levels at different times of day and night. You could check that out and speak to your neighbors if they're violating that.

 

[ForteKitty]

She may have been scared because she doesn't know you. You mentioned that she was on the phone and didn't appear to be doing anything when she answered the door. I wonder if she had to call your neighbor to make sure it was okay for her to open the door? If a house cleaner is there by herself, she may not feel safe. How would she know if you are setting a trap for her to open the door? What if there were other people waiting for the door to open before they burst in to rob the house?

It happens! If I were working in a house on my own or with one other person, and the owner isn't there, I would not feel comfortable answering the door. If that were the case, she may have called the owner afterwards to let him/her know what happened.

Just another point of view. She probably didn't want to get herself fired so she's covering all her bases.

 

[zoebartlett]

I don't know if you're still reading, Mayerling, but I'm sorry you haven't gotten a good impression of people who do things differently than you'd do. I don't think it's necessarily a cultural thing though, as your last post implies. I think most people, regardless of where they come from or how they were raised, are taught to be kind and respect others. I'm sorry you've had a negative experience in the States.

 

[missy]

As a long time apartment dweller in NYC , I know and have experienced all kinds of neighbors. We had the screamers, the dish bangers, the heavy duty ethnic cooking smells wafting into our apt at 5am, because they ran a restaurant and did some of the cooking in the apt.
A neighbor and her boyfriend had loud screaming sex in the bathroom all the time. The bathroom that shared a wall with my living room!
We had a crazy neighbor who thought my DH was spying on him and he crazy glued our door locks 16 times!!
We had crying babies and loud music of all kinds at random hours of the day.
In NYC there is an ordinance and after 10pm you can complain. I don't remember the start time.
The apt complex required all tenants to have carpets on all floors. Even so we swore there was a dance studio above us at one point.

We raised 2 children in these same apartments.

I never once considered going to a neighbor in the middle of the day to ask them to stop making noise/or ask when they would be done.
I had several apologize if they had been loud at night after a party, but never during the day.
One neighbor did warn me her bathroom was being redone so it would be noisy, but, I really never would have expected that. It was nice.
It seemed to me from your post, you are very unhappy with the rental and are pretty unfamiliar with the experience of close neighbors. The early morning, middle of the night noises would annoy me too, and you might want to google the local ordinance. However I'm not sure there is one against vacuuming at noon.

+1

SL, I think we must have been neighbors (sorry about the bathroom sharing a wall!) (I keed) - this is very much what my experience has been. There have been times when I have been ready to murder the family next door for shouting loudly right in front of our door as they wait for the elevator, right in time to wake my son ... but I don't think it would ever cross my mind to police somebody's actions in their private space, or even their rude-but-reasonable actions, like forgetting their "indoor" voices, in a shared public area.

I don't know if it's an American vs. British thing, or specifically a New York thing: space here is so limited that eventually it all fades to white noise, background sounds. I grew up under an active flight path ... compared to that, even the annoying neighbor who liked to spend a pleasant evening on the regular enjoying the soothing sounds of Insane Clown Posse dialed up to 11 is as nothing.

It's different for me. I live in a co-op and we have rules about noise and times of day etc. And more importantly we try to be good neighbors and so far there have been no major issues either way. I work out at 6AM workdays but I have an area rug and absorbent exercise mat under my arc trainer and treadmill so as to be considerate of those below me. We also have a rule where you must have a certain amount of your wood floors covered to absorb sound. Now we don't have much of our wood floors covered at all but I also don't walk around in my apt in heels or even shoes most of the time. I wear socks or slippers or ballet flats so it's very soft on the floor.

Mayerling,I am sorry about your experience here and I agree with Zoe. I don't think it is cultural as much as specific to each individual as to how they were raised and how much they give a damn about affecting others.

As far as the vacuuming etc goes I don't think that is rude in any way and I also don't think it was rude for you to go and ask when she might be done so you could put your child down for a nap. Seems as there was a misunderstanding all around but I can also see why she might not have (and perhaps should not have) answered the door. As Fortekitty pointed out it could have been risky not knowing who you are and it not being her home.

I hope the rest of your time here goes more smoothly and that you enjoy.

 

[Indylady]

I hope the rest of your time here goes more smoothly and that you enjoy.

Me too. I'm sorry for my post earlier, which was unnecessarily critical and rude. I think your comment about being raised a certain way got to me; it just seemed condescending, and rubbed me the wrong way. I do hope you have more pleasant experiences at your new house, and that your remaining few weeks are much less eventful and noisy.

 

[Sky56]

I can empathize with the noise problems. I live part-time in an apartment. It's on the top floor and I make sure to not bang cabinets, walk softly not like a herd of rhinos and when we have sex no grunting and groaning....because I've been on the other end before, living in downstairs units with people stomping, slamming doors, loud sex, loud stereos, fighting....what a nightmare! I also live in a country home where I run the TV loud, stomp around, slam cabinets at 3AM! No loud sex though, I dislike screamers! People should be considerate and act accordingly to place.

 

[nkarma]

Yes we are entitled and loud species compared to the Brits. Opinionated as well as you can see in this thread. Surely, you have heard rumours of that before your journey?

I hope you enjoy the rest of your time in LA and meet some good people. You know it will end so embrace the differences and see what you can learn from it. Like every country, people vary, so try to not to cut yourself off too much while here.

 

[kenny]

Funny true story.
Actually the loudest place I've lived was not even in America ... but it was full of Americans.

I was stationed overseas in a very isolated remote part of a very isolated remote country.
For a year and a half I lived in a WWII quonset hut, converted to barracks of around 12 'rooms'.
The so called 'walls' were something like particle board.
If you wanted to talk to someone in the next 'room' you just spoke.
No need to go to their room or even raise your voice much.

There wasn't much to do and life was a bit like being in a submarine.
The most popular hobby was stereo equipment ordered from the BX, or was it PX?
Prices were a fraction of what they were in the states.
Noobs might start with a 50-watt amp and 8-inch speakers.
After a few months of not being able to hear it he'd upgrade to 100 or 200-watt amp and 12 to 18-inch speakers.

There were times when all the frustrated 20-something testosterone units had their stereos cranked full blast.
We worked shifts so a few guys were always sleeping.
I can still hear, no feel, the bass of Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" pulsating in my head.

How did I live through that?

 

[ruby59]

People have become much more entitled over the years, imo. I have never been out of the country, so I do not know if it is just Americans or everyone. Yes, people are entitled to go about their lives and living in crowded areas does make noise a reality that cannot always be avoided. But the question remains, where does their rights end and yours begin? OP, I explored that a little in my thread about children and harnesses, and that discussion did not go over very well at all.

I kind of agree with the consensus that the cleaning lady is just doing her job and probably called her boss because she thought she was in trouble. Yes, people vaccum during the day. However, you might not have been so exasperated about it if you were able to get a good night sleep instead of hearing suitcases dragging at 4 in the morning. Yes, we all live and work different schedules, but according to noise ordinances in our area you can complain about excessive noise between 11:00 and 7:00 AM. Problem is that the noise has to reach a certain decible (they actually measure it) so much of it does not qualify.

But that does not mean people cannot show respect for each other. After all our parents and grandparents lived in very crowed areas, so how were they able to work it out? Compromise, maybe? Consideration for others? Something other than the me, me attitude that seems to prevail today?