Trade in mix up...what would you do?

[Ara Ann]

Asking for input and opinions etc. about this scenario.

My friend traded in some old jewelry to put toward a new ring she was buying from a local jeweler who makes cast pieces from antique molds. She liked a particular setting they made and had to replace her antique e-ring.


She took in her old gold, including an antique 18k gold e-ring, to ask about a trade in...the pieces were taken away and weighed...the woman wrote down the price of the new setting at $225.00 and said they'd put her trade in cash toward the new ring....the total trade in amount was less than $150.00, it was not written down or itemized.


My friend thought about the purchase and returned a couple of days later and turned in the jewelry and ordered the new piece.

Two weeks later the new ring was done, but the finished price was now $295.00, plus they wanted to charge another $31 for labor, but the original cost quoted included the labor, at $225.00.

My friend spoke to the owner about the huge price difference and he said they'd honor the original written quote.


She went in to pick up her ring and the sales girl gave her back her old e-ring as well, they were in the same bag. My friend immediately said that her old e-ring was part of the trade in and the girl said it wasn't written down anywhere and since it was in the 'customer' baggie together, it was hers to keep. My friend asked, 'are you positive' and she replied, 'it is yours.' - so my friend took her rings and went home.

Three days later, the store called to say they needed her old ring back because it was part of the trade in. Mind you, they were only going to give her $37.00 for that ring, but they basically accused her of stealing it.

1. They didn't weigh the pieces in front of her and did not give her an itemized price for each piece she was trading in.

2. It was not listed anywhere on her paperwork or sales receipt as being part of the trade in.

3. She asked, twice, if the girl was certain she was supposed to give it back to her and twice the girl said it was hers.


I am not going to say what my friend did...yet...but am curious, what would you do in this situation?

 

[kenny]

I'd speak only to the boss.
I'd give the old ring back and tell the boss about the mistake the employee made.

I'd also make a point of admitting to myself that I made a mistake by not getting EVERYTHING in writing and would never make that mistake again.

 

[Ara Ann]

Thanks for your opinion Kenny.

But what about the responsibility of the store to write things down as well? Don't they also have the burden of 'proof' to write down their correct cost and trade ins and such? How can they keep their own records straight if they don't write things down for themselves?

She did ask the 'only' person working that day, the manager was not there, to verify who the ring belonged to. Isn't the responsibility on the store employee to double check with the manager if there is any doubt....I think that if she took the responsibility for it without asking the manager and told her it was hers, then the burden is on her, not my friend.

 

[dragonfly411]

I'd speak only to the boss.
I'd give the old ring back and tell the boss about the mistake the employee made.

I'd also make a point of admitting to myself that I made a mistake by not getting EVERYTHING in writing and would never make that mistake again.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Efe]

They screw up and then accuse her of stealing? I wouldn't give it to them on principle. Maybe then they will learn how to conduct their business professionally.

 

[kenny]

Thanks for your opinion Kenny.

But what about the responsibility of the store to write things down as well? Don't they also have the burden of 'proof' to write down their correct cost and trade ins and such? How can they keep their own records straight if they don't write things down for themselves?

She did ask the 'only' person working that day, the manager was not there, to verify who the ring belonged to. Isn't the responsibility on the store employee to double check with the manager if there is any doubt....

Yes, the employee made a mistake, and I would give the ring back because that is the contract that I agreed to, written or not.
I have to live with myself and following my internal moral compass is important.

IMHO, the employee's mistake has nothing to do with me doing the right thing.
It just let me enjoy that ring for a few extra days for free. Lucky me.

Do you feel the employee's mistake somehow alters the contract and your friend should to keep the ring?
If you and your friend feel that way, so be it.
I don't, and I just answered your question.

What if the trade in ring was $10,000 instead of $37?

I think this is another thing that is not absolute, and people's expectation will vary.

 

[kenny]

Three days later, the store called to say they needed her old ring back because it was part of the trade in. Mind you, they were only going to give her $37.00 for that ring, but they basicallyaccused her of stealing it.

Could you elaborate on the word, "basically"?

I suspect they said X, but your friend "heard" Y.
Happens all the time.

 

[Ara Ann]

Thanks for your opinion Kenny.

But what about the responsibility of the store to write things down as well? Don't they also have the burden of 'proof' to write down their correct cost and trade ins and such? How can they keep their own records straight if they don't write things down for themselves?

She did ask the 'only' person working that day, the manager was not there, to verify who the ring belonged to. Isn't the responsibility on the store employee to double check with the manager if there is any doubt....

Yes, the employee made a mistake, and I would give the ring back because that is the contract that I agreed to, written or not.
I have to live with myself and following my internal moral compass is important.

IMHO, the employee's mistake has nothing to do with me doing the right thing.
It just let me enjoy that ring for a few extra days for free. Lucky me.

Do you feel the employee's mistake somehow alters the contract and your friend should to keep the ring?
If you and your friend feel that way, so be it.
I don't, and I just answered your question.

What if the trade in ring was $10,000 instead of $37?

I think this is another thing that is not absolute, and people's expectation will vary.

I do see your point Kenny (and I agree with you about doing the right thing), however, when you hire an employee and that employee makes decisions for your company, and chooses not to investigate further, then it IMO becomes that employee's responsibility for the misunderstanding. She felt the ring belonged to my friend, assured her twice that it did and never bothered to question it further...she took the responsibility on herself at that point.

The owner did call my friend back and said his employee said she "told her" it was part of the trade in, which was a total falsehood. So it's her word against my friend's word...the owner obviously believed his employee and called my friend to ask for the ring back. That is what accusing someone of stealing sounds like in my book.

 

[Pandora II]

Both were stupid not to set everything out in writing.

However, your friend remembered the original deal well enough to persuade the owner to honour that deal. If she now wants to keep the ring, knowing full well that it formed part of the original deal then that is fundamentally dishonest on her part.

Whatever the employee said, she KNEW that the engagement ring was no longer hers and so should have told the employee that there was a mistake and they should be keeping it not her.

Your friend is not being done out of anything - she is trying to diddle the shop.

 

[suchende]

The fact she asked if the salesgirl was sure she was supposed to get it back tells me she thought she wasn't. She should give it back, or compensate them for the $37/whatever it was.

 

[Ara Ann]

Both were stupid not to set everything out in writing.

However, your friend remembered the original deal well enough to persuade the owner to honour that deal. If she now wants to keep the ring, knowing full well that it formed part of the original deal then that is fundamentally dishonest on her part.

Whatever the employee said, she KNEW that the engagement ring was no longer hers and so should have told the employee that there was a mistake and they should be keeping it not her.

Your friend is not being done out of anything - she is trying to diddle the shop.

The original quote for the price of the new ring WAS in writing...which is the only reason they honored it.

She asked TWICE to be sure it was supposed to go back to her...TWICE the girl said, "there is nothing written down, it is yours" -

I do see your point, however, my friend DID try, twice to point it out at the time...but the girl insisted it was not included in the trade in. She could have not said anything at all and pocketed it and took off...she did not do that.

The transaction was completed at that point.


For what it's worth, *I* would have returned the ring. I see that side of this argument and agree with that, however, I *DO* see her point as well, that she isn't even 100% sure about the trade in amount she did get...they didn't give her anything about that in writing.

My point is this is their business and they have the 'burden' of proof....yes, she could have returned it, but IMO they also need to have accurate practices in place as well.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

The fact she asked if the salesgirl was sure she was supposed to get it back tells me she thought she wasn't. She should give it back, or compensate them for the $37/whatever it was.

I agree.

I admit I would have walked out with the setting like your friend did, but when called again would have returned it to them.

 

[Ara Ann]

But, again, how does she know this was included in their trade in at all, that is the point... Nothing was weighed in front of her, it was done downstairs in the repair area.

The sales girl told her it wasn't written down as a trade in.

My friend took that to mean they 'hadn't included it' AT ALL. YES, she intended it to be traded in, BUT it doesn't mean it was weighed and APPLIED to her balance, THAT is what she is questioning, not her intention of using it as part of the trade in. THAT is why she asked, twice, because she thought it should have been included in the trade in and was surprised to learn it hadn't been. If they had listed and priced out her trade ins, then they'd have something to go on, for ALL of them.


For what it's worth, I would have returned the ring too...but I would have always wondered if 'they' had pulled one on me.

 

[kenny]

Sounds to me like your friend knows keeping the ring is wrong but is searching for people who will tell her that it is not wrong.

Tell her to look to her own moral compass.
$37 is a very small price to "pay" to be able to sleep at night.

If she feels she has done nothing wrong, so be it.
But then why would the question even come up; why this thread?

 

[suchende]

So why doesn't she go down there, have them walk her through the numbers and values, and explain to her exactly what was and wasn't included? If they can't explain themselves, she can go from there, and get some peace about it. I would want to have a good relationship with the person who made my ring -- what if I need a repair from them? Burning this bridge could cost a lot more than $37 down the road.

 

[LadyBlue]

She took in her old gold, including an antique 18k gold e-ring, to ask about a trade in...the pieces were taken away and weighed...the woman wrote down the price of the new setting at $225.00 and said they'd put her trade in cash toward the new ring....the total trade in amount was less than $150.00, it was not written down or itemized.

There is your answer. They took all the pieces, and weigh them. I would they not return the ring at that moment if it was not part of the deal. She accept the deal knowing the ring was part of the deal.

What you friend is doing it is wrong. And she know is it. Not because the girl made a mistake that means she can take advantage of it. She should return it and be done with it.

 

[Ara Ann]

Sounds to me like your friend knows keeping the ring is wrong but is searching for people who will tell her that it is not wrong.

Tell her to look to her own moral compass.
$37 is a very small price to "pay" to be able to sleep at night.

If she feels she has done nothing wrong, so be it.
But then why would the question even come up; why this thread?

Because *I* am asking the question, not her.

*I* would have returned the ring as well and wondered how others saw this situation, how others would handle this.

And why *not* this thread? I have seen many sillier threads started on PS, none having to do with jewelry.

I thought it was an interesting "what would you do" question.


She is keeping the ring and feels justified in doing so. She had planned to order a matching wedding band but is not going to order from them...both their losses.

I felt bad because I had suggested she go there in the first place...my ring was repaired there as well...and I felt bad about the whole thing, as I was involved.

 

[kenny]

She is keeping the ring and feels justified in doing so.

So be it.
People vary.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

I think when I was called I would ask for some verification when I went in. Like, weighing the ring in front of me. If it did meet $37, and they could also account for the other items at least in broad strokes (like if the other pieces seemed to be x times the weight of my ring I would be more likely to believe them), it would set my mind at ease. It is such a small amount of money, I doubt a store would go out of their way to quibble over it, except that they "lost" out on her ring setting already by misquoting it...

But that is what I think I would do. Whether I would actually do it is another issue. Humans suck at predicting our own behavior.

 

[junebug17]

Just to answer the original question...I would have returned the ring. It's unfortunate the salesgirl made the mistake and caused all this confusion, but in my heart I would know what the original deal was and I would have honored it.

 

[VapidLapid]

return the ring
a deal is a deal, regardless of an employee, who was not privy to the deal when made, making a mistake. Customer knows what the original agreed on terms were, Customer is as responsible as jeweler to see the terms are fulfilled. That customer now has doubts about the fairness of the trade is wholly irrelevant at this point and customer should learn lesson not to agree to trades that she doesn't properly understand. Remorse after the fact is not justification to screw another.

 

[iheartscience]

I would either return it or pay the $37 they say it's worth. It's too late now for her to be concerned about what's in writing and what isn't, in my opinion.

 

[iugurl]

My friend took that to mean they 'hadn't included it' AT ALL. YES, she intended it to be traded in, BUT it doesn't mean it was weighed and APPLIED to her balance, THAT is what she is questioning, not her intention of using it as part of the trade in. THAT is why she asked, twice, because she thought it should have been included in the trade in and was surprised to learn it hadn't been. If they had listed and priced out her trade ins, then they'd have something to go on, for ALL of them.

Hmm. I see her point. Perhaps they missed or forgot to add that particular piece to the list of pieces for the trade in. So if they forgot, they didn't add a $37 credit towards her new piece.

I am confused about what was written down... Nothing was itemized? How did the saleslady know that that particular piece was not included... If she did have one and that ring wasn't on the list, then that means they forgot it and didn't add it in to the credit. Then they have no right to it, as they didn't pay her for it.

If the employee simply didn't know what she was talking about, then that is a different story... How will she ever know? If she goes back to look at the list (if there is one) and they want to screw her over, they could make up a new "list" to replace the real one. Or it could be the real one!

I would give it back UNLESS I saw the saleslady look right at a list of items. I would think that since she looked and did not see it, it was not a mistake on her part, but that they really did not add that piece to my credit. Either way, I would ask them before how much each piece was worth.

 

[jewelerman]

This is an interesting question and this type of problem happens a lot in jewelry stores when proper records are not kept and sales people are not properly trained or don't care enough. The company should have weighed the gold in front of the customer, then logging each piece on the envelope and getting customers signature and again on the customers receipt.The sales person should have been smart enough to ask a manager why there was an extra ring in a customers pick up envelope.In every store Ive worked at the scrap that the store owns goes in a safe box that goes to meltdown and everything that goes back to the customer is placed in the pick up envelope. This way there are no embarrassing mix ups that cost the company money.The ring did belong to the store and im sure your friend knew that in the beginning. but the store screwed up and the sales lady verbally changed the original agreement, and the manager never should have called the customer over a 37.00 mistake.They know this by the fact that the ring was in the customers pick up envelope and the sales person let it go out the door.Your friend should return the ring,ask for the manager, and ask why the ring was in the envelope and ask why the sales person let it out the door if it wasn't suppose to be back in her possession.

 

[Ara Ann]

Well...mystery solved. Sort of.


The store owner spoke to their benchman yesterday (he's not in their store every day) and he said had her old setting noted as 'not scrap' which is why it was returned to her and her other pieces she did trade in were separate - there was confusion on his part, because this was also the setting she wanted a repair quote for...the sales lady (not the same person who gave the ring back) took all her pieces to the benchman, (downstairs) at the same time, her trade ins AND the ring she had asked about repairing. He gave a repair quote on her setting and my friend declined the repair and thought it was clear to him at that point that she wanted to trade it in, but that first sales lady never told him the old e-ring was now part of the trade in.

He did have the old ring, because he needed to remove the diamond from it, to set into the new setting...he returned the old one to her in her envelope because he did not think she was trading it in and he had not included it in the trade in. THAT makes sense.

However, they still could not come up with any paperwork or reasons why they asked HER for $37.00, when the ring was not in fact ever added into her trade in amount from the beginning.

 

[missy]

I would either return it or pay the $37 they say it's worth. It's too late now for her to be concerned about what's in writing and what isn't, in my opinion.

I would do this. If I really wanted to keep the ring I would pay the $37 they were giving me credit for and if I didn't want to I would return it. She knows it was part of the original deal and is rationalizing to make herself feel better about being dishonest.

 

[Ara Ann]

I would either return it or pay the $37 they say it's worth. It's too late now for her to be concerned about what's in writing and what isn't, in my opinion.

I would do this. If I really wanted to keep the ring I would pay the $37 they were giving me credit for and if I didn't want to I would return it. She knows it was part of the original deal and is rationalizing to make herself feel better about being dishonest.

Ummm...see my last post please.

 

[missy]

I would either return it or pay the $37 they say it's worth. It's too late now for her to be concerned about what's in writing and what isn't, in my opinion.

I would do this. If I really wanted to keep the ring I would pay the $37 they were giving me credit for and if I didn't want to I would return it. She knows it was part of the original deal and is rationalizing to make herself feel better about being dishonest.

Ummm...see my last post please.

Missed that Ara Ann, sorry! So it wasn't part of the original trade in. That store is very disorganized and dealt with this specific case unprofessionally and I agree that she shouldn't use them again. Hopefully they will learn from this experience and improve for the next business transaction.