This is outrageous....

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:43:17 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:23:56 PM

Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 8:11:28 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:03:53 PM


Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 7:54:29 PM


Author: Kaleigh


Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

They are still innocent until proven guilty.

guilty or not...they shouldn''t be getting the medication before our kids.

''our kids,'' i.e. American kids, matter more than somebody else''s son or daughter?



Of course, I get that young children are more likely to die from swine flu. But no one is arguing with the military''s decision to vaccinate all of their decidedly adult members.

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.

Simple question: why?

 

[miraclesrule]

I guarantee you that if the guards became infected because the detainees didn''t get the vaccine, we would all be footing the bill for the worker''s compensation claims they file against their employer...in this case...us taxpayers.

That would in addition to the potential liability claims. It''s a sucky reality and one more reason to support the saying "Ignorance is Bliss"

 

[iluvcarats]

Our tax dollars hard at work...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:45:34 PM
Author: JulieN

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.

Simple question: why?

simple answer...taxpayer money.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 9:14:27 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:45:34 PM

Author: JulieN

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.

Simple question: why?

simple answer...taxpayer money.

Then, I take it you support closing Gitmo and returning all prisoners who haven't been charged with any crimes to their home countries instead of putting them into US prisons indefinitely?

Unless, of course, what you really meant was that they should just die in a cell of H1N1 flu.

 

[kenny]

I consider all humans to have equal value.

Young, middle aged, old, male and female, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists etc.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:11:12 PM
Author: kenny
I consider all humans to have equal value.


Young, old, male and female.

All humans do have equal value, I agree. But when a group of people make it their mission in life to kill American men, women and children, I question their humanity.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:05:23 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 9:14:27 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:45:34 PM

Author: JulieN

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.

Simple question: why?

simple answer...taxpayer money.

Then, I take it you support closing Gitmo and returning all prisoners who haven''t been charged with any crimes to their home countries instead of putting them into US prisons indefinitely?

Unless, of course, what you really meant was that they should just die in a cell because we don''t have any evidence to charge or convict.

Julie...you wanna know how i really feel about these prisoners?. a bullet only cost 50 cents.

 

[goldenstar]

Date: 11/5/2009 6:44:54 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
I agree with you that terrorists should be the last on the list, if you will. BUT, the fact is that WE DO NOT KNOW how many of those people are terrorists, because they have not been prosecuted or even CHARGED with anything. ETA We don''t even know what caused them to be suspects in the first place.


What happened to innocent until proven guilty, or heck, innocent until charged with a crime, at the very least? It''s bad enough that innocent people are indefinitely imprisoned, should they die in prison as well?

DITTO. I don''t agree with the idea that the majority of people being detained are in there for a reason. The "laws" are such that its far too easy to detain someone without sufficient proof of wrongdoing.

I find it fascinating that lots of people call the detainees criminals... this hasn''t been proven yet.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:14:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 10:05:23 PM

Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 9:14:27 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:45:34 PM


Author: JulieN

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.

Simple question: why?

simple answer...taxpayer money.

Then, I take it you support closing Gitmo and returning all prisoners who haven't been charged with any crimes to their home countries instead of putting them into US prisons indefinitely?


Unless, of course, what you really meant was that they should just die in a cell because we don't have any evidence to charge or convict.

Julie...you wanna know how i really feel about these prisoners?. a bullet only cost 50 cents.

Hey, DF, I already knew that. I just wanted you to say it and show everybody how little you think of human life.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:23:49 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 10:14:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Julie...you wanna know how i really feel about these prisoners?. a bullet only cost 50 cents.

Hey, DF, I already knew that. I just wanted you to say it and show everybody how little you think of human life.

i put terrorist in a different category then human.

 

[yssie]

This is like watching a tennis match

 

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:36:32 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 10:23:49 PM

Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 10:14:57 PM

Author: Dancing Fire


Julie...you wanna know how i really feel about these prisoners?. a bullet only cost 50 cents.

Hey, DF, I already knew that. I just wanted you to say it and show everybody how little you think of human life.

i put terrorist in a different category then human.

alleged terrorist. people who don't have enough evidence that will stick in court.

FlashForward tonight, then Astroboy, and then hookah, so I'm out for the night

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:35:58 PM
Author: yssie
My first thought was ''that''s completely outrageous''.


Then I read this post:

Date: 11/5/2009 8:10:33 PM

Author: sparklyheart

Just a thought.. If they get the flu and then become seriously ill (but don''t die), could they somehow get a lawsuit started against the government saying they weren''t ''protected'' from known hazards? If they could do that, could they get out of jail free because of a government mistake? Then we''d have potential terrorists running free because they didn''t get their flu shot. I think the government is just trying to cover their you-know-whats.


Either way, it sucks for the people unable to get the shot even though they are in the high risk groups.

And I really think you''ve got a point! There''s just no other sane, sensible explanation.

I assure you ladies that the result of such a suit is not early release from jail or prison.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Hmmm, so these people are not able to sue for basic human rights (the right not to be detained indefinitely without due process), but they will be able to sue, and win for lack of a flu vaccine. Somehow this strikes me as doubtful.

It''s very peculiar to see so many people up in arms about this. But I suppose this is why our government has been able to continue to kidnap and detain people illegally all these years -- perhaps the majority of Americans see these issues only as they relate to them personally, and since the majority of Americans are not illegally detained they couldn''t care less about others who are.

And speaking of children, it''s no secret that some of these detainees are teenagers. I guess they don''t matter since they''re not *our* children.

 

[cindygenit]

why can''t the government just make/ buy more vaccines? That way, children, older people and alleged terrorists can get them at the same time. hehe

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/6/2009 12:32:23 AM
Author: brooklyngirl
Hmmm, so these people are not able to sue for basic human rights (the right not to be detained indefinitely without due process), but they will be able to sue, and win for lack of a flu vaccine. Somehow this strikes me as doubtful.

It''s very peculiar to see so many people up in arms about this. But I suppose this is why our government has been able to continue to kidnap and detain people illegally all these years -- perhaps the majority of Americans see these issues only as they relate to them personally, and since the majority of Americans are not illegally detained they couldn''t care less about others who are.

And speaking of children, it''s no secret that some of these detainees are teenagers. I guess they don''t matter since they''re not *our* children.

Ditto. Threads (or news stories) like these are always so unreal to me. You took the words right out of my brain today, brooklyngirl.

 

[steph72276]

Thing, is it possible you are so floored that people are outraged over this b/c you don't have children? So if you don't have a child to think about, perhaps you can care more about what's going on with a random stranger that may/may not be a terrorist? If you did have a child, I would hope the thought of them contracting the virus and then possibly dying might outway your concern for these terrorist suspects....you just have different priorities when you have children, your child's welfare becomes your main concern, or at least that's how it should be.

ETA: I never said the detainees shouldn't have access to the vaccine. I just think the main group of people affected (pregnant women and children should have access first. And that should go for all of the countries affected, not just the US of course). These men should be at the bottom of the totem pole along with other healthy middle aged people that do not directly care for young children.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 11/6/2009 7:18:21 AM
Author: steph72276
Thing, is it possible you are so floored that people are outraged over this b/c you don''t have children? So if you don''t have a child to think about, perhaps you can care more about what''s going on with a random stranger that may/may not be a terrorist? If you did have a child, I would hope the thought of them contracting the virus and then possibly dying might outway your concern for these terrorist suspects....you just have different priorities when you have children, your child''s welfare becomes your main concern, or at least that''s how it should be.

ETA: I never said the detainees shouldn''t have access to the vaccine. I just think the main group of people affected (pregnant women and children should have access first. And that should go for all of the countries affected, not just the US of course). These men should be at the bottom of the totem pole along with other healthy middle aged people that do not directly care for young children.

OK. I call a hearty hi ho B****** on this. I''m so tired of people with children virtually accusing those who don''t have them of (melodramatically now) Just not being able to understand!!! But it would all be crystal clear the moment they procreate. It''s like someone slapping you and saying "You just have NO idea of what LOVE really is, and won''t until you have children." That''s crap. Thing lacks neither imagination nor the capacity for love, I suspect. What she DOES lack, however, since I know her quite well, is the ability to stop her very logical brain, or to discard all she feels is right just because of children. Emotionally (since that seems to be the only mode of "thinking" around here that carries any weight these days) I am not so great with a detainee getting a vaccine that might save a child. But I''m not making the choice for one, I don''t know all of the issues involved. But all this "string ''em up" rhetoric makes me quite ill. They are suspects not convicted terrorists, and they are living in a limbo that has no end in sight. My imaginative powers do not stop at being able to imagine the love one has for one''s own child, or the vast burden of care and worry that comes with it. (Maybe it doesn''t measure up in your book, but I was the sole caretaker of my mother, who died last year after a long and heartbreaking time with ALS. So when you imply that I (or others) - simply because I don''t have kids - can''t love properly or can''t "understand" , yeah, it gets up my nose a bit.) It also extends to my ability to imagine myself being totally innocent and simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and being thrown into a deep dark hole and forgotten. Do a meditation on that one for a while. But of course, nothing like that could EVER happen to any one of us, so empathy is not required, and we can scream for blood with no remorse. The detainees themselves are not making the decision, so all the vitriol directed AT them in this thread is quite misplaced.

 

[y2kitty]

They give the detainees the vaccine to protect the service men and women who work with them. Still, I don''t think the detainees are a huge risk group, since they don''t really go anywhere their chances of being exposed to it are less then the average persons.

 

[steph72276]

KSinger, did you even bother to read the second half of my statement????? I don't think I said anything wrong here. It is a simple fact...when you have a child, they are your main concern and responsibility. They should come before all others in MY OPINION. I NEVER ONCE SAID YOU "CAN'T LOVE PROPERLY" IF YOU DON'T HAVE CHILDREN. So get off of your high horse and stop putting words in people's mouths.

 

[Ali]

Since this is getting personal and on the lines of political, the thread will be closed.

For those that have been outraged by the headlines, I will end this thread with some of the content:

"Base officials had not received the vaccinations and did not know when they were expected to arrive, Haynie said.

Once the vaccinations are received, doses will be administered to active-duty personnel before being offered to detainees and others on the base, Haynie said.

The vaccination is mandatory for all uniformed personnel, she said."



It''s unfortunate that things get twisted up so that a statement like: ''vaccinations are mandatory for all uniformed personnel'' connected with: ''vaccinations will be offered to detainees'' turns into outrage and assumption that terrorists are being vaccinated in place of pregnant women and children.


I think that those whose serve our country and put their life on the line everyday to protect our nation and our families deserve to be in the ''high priority'' group for vaccines. Offering the vaccine to detainees will help further hedge the spread of the virus to those who serve and protect us.