Obama''s Speech....

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Hi, all...

I keep coming back to check if anyone has talked about the speech that Obama gave Tuesday.

It BLEW ME AWAY. I honestly think it should be required reading and study in every high school in the country. Whole courses of study could be built around it at the college level.

I''m wondering if my being so moved is mostly because I''m already an Obama fan. Are there any McCain or Clinton peops out there who were moved enough to reconsider Obama ? Just curious..

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[movie zombie]

widget,

not a fan of hillary or mccain....as you can imagine, especially the latter. i''m still not liking obama''s corporate connections......but that speech of his is the most direct and honest thing i''ve heard in years. i think he is the new face of america: bi-racial and thus understanding more than most of us.

movie zombie

 

[diamondfan]

I have issues with Obama as a Jewish person, and will not be voting for him, but I did hear the speech was incredible. I would love to see it as I heard it was an amazing one and the most clear and forthright comments in this election were contained in it. He is a great speech giver in general, but this one is supposed to surpass anything he has done to date.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/21/2008 10:58:33 AM
Author: diamondfan

I would love to see it

I had not seen it and I wanted to, so I watched it on YouTube. If you go there to see it, be sure that you find a recording that has broken it down into four parts and has all four uploaded, otherwise you will get a truncated version.

Deborah

 

[MoonWater]

Here is the entire speech on Youtube: Obama''s Speech On Race

and here is the text:

“We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.”

Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America’s improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.

The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.

Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution – a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.

And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part – through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign – to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It’s a story that hasn’t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts – that out of many, we are truly one.

Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.

This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either “too black” or “not black enough.” We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.

And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.

On one end of the spectrum, we’ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it’s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems – two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn’t all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God’s work here on Earth – by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

“People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend’s voice up into the rafters….And in that single note – hope! – I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones. Those stories – of survival, and freedom, and hope – became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn’t need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish – and with which we could start to rebuild.”

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety – the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity’s services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions – the good and the bad – of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America – to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we’ve never really worked through – a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, “The past isn’t dead and buried. In fact, it isn’t even past.” We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven’t fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today’s black and white students.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments – meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today’s urban and rural communities.

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one’s family, contributed to the erosion of black families – a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods – parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement – all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What’s remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn’t make it – those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations – those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright’s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience – as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch. They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze – a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns – this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It’s a racial stalemate we’ve been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy – particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction – a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people – that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances – for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans — the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives – by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American – and yes, conservative – notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright’s sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright’s sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It’s that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country – a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old — is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know — what we have seen – is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope – the audacity to hope – for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds – by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world’s great religions demand – that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother’s keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister’s keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, “Not this time.” This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can’t learn; that those kids who don’t look like us are somebody else’s problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don’t have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn’t look like you might take your job; it’s that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should’ve been authorized and never should’ve been waged, and we want to talk about how we’ll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

I would not be running for President if I didn’t believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation – the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

There is one story in particularly that I’d like to leave you with today – a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King’s birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that’s when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother’s problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn’t. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they’re supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who’s been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he’s there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, “I am here because of Ashley.”

“I’m here because of Ashley.” By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.

 

[MoonWater]

I believe with this speech, Obama has proven himself to be one of the greatest figures in American history, whether elected president or not. Finally, someone was willing to address this issue and stop pretending that it did not exists. Blacks and Whites need to start taking responsibility for themselves and admit that the plight of others is not non-existent just because you aren't the perpetrator or you don't experience it yourself. I am very sick of this country and its racial ignorance.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 3/21/2008 3:37:48 PM
Author: MoonWater
I believe with this speech, Obama has proven himself to be one of the greatest figures in American history, whether elected president or not. Finally, someone was willing to address this issue and stop pretending that it did not exists. Blacks and Whites need to start taking responsibility for themselves and admit that the plight of others is not non-existent just because you aren''t the perpetrator or you don''t experience it yourself. I am very sick of this country and its racial ignorance.

+1 and nicely said Moon!

movie zombie

 

[surfgirl]

diamondfan, what issues do you have with Obama that relate to your being Jewish, if you dont mind my asking?

I too, felt it was an exceptionally strong and appropriate speech. I have no problems with it at all. Then again, I also dont have much issue with what Obama's former reverend said either because I think there's also a lot of truth in what he said as well, though many Americans dont want to admit it.

 

[AGBF]

I am not going to discuss religion here, but will state for the record that my husband's family is in Israel and Italy. My great-nephew, who now lives in Boston and is like a son to me, grew up in Israel and served in the Israeli army before coming here. His parents and sister still live in Israel, in fact in Sderot, where rocket attacks from Gaza had become the norm (prior to the recent Israeli counter-attack) since Hamas took power there.

I also want to say that I support Obama and that I think that if he is president we have just as much chance for peace between Israel and its neighbors as if any of the other candidates is elected. As an American, Israel is only one of my many foreign policy concerns, however. I am also very concerned about Iraq and the huge loss of life there. It is clear to me that Obama has had the correct position on Iraq and al Qaeda: do not confuse the attackers of 9/11 who are religious extremists of Saudi Arabian origin trained in Afghanistan with the secular regime of Saddam Hussein of Iraq.

Obama has said it: by invading Iraq (which had no ties to the religious extremists who attacked the United States on 9/11), we took the focus off Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Osama bin Laden (who were tied to those attacks). Why? Why have so many innocent Iraqis had to die for five long years? Why have so many American soldiers been killed or maimed for life in Iraq? Why Is the United States so cozy with Saudi Arabia?

I am angry with President Bush, who is cozy with Saudi Arabia-our attacker on 9/11 and who let Osama bin Laden go free-not with Senator Obama.

Deborah

 

[Ellen]

I happen to support Obama, but I have been listening to the political pundits since the speech, Dems and Reps alike, and I haven''t heard one, when asked what they thought, not give him the props he deserves.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 3/22/2008 8:33:37 AM
Author: AGBF

I am not going to discuss religion here, but will state for the record that my husband''s family is in Israel and Italy. My great-nephew, who now lives in Boston and is like a son to me, grew up in Israel and served in the Israeli army before coming here. His parents and sister still live in Israel, in fact in Sderot, where rocket attacks from Gaza had become the norm (prior to the recent Israeli counter-attack) since Hamas took power there.

But what does this have to do with Obama? That''s what I''m asking...

 

[diamondfan]

He has made statements about things that, if he were to follow through as President, would likely jeopardize Israel. Bush, much as I dislike most things about him (mainly the war and the loss of life involved) has been one of the most pro Israel presidents we have had. McCain, again, though I do not love all things about him, is very pro Israel. This is something I feel strongly about. I have many Jewish friends here who are admittedly more religious/observant than I am, and they have many ties to Israel and they all have stated that this one aspect is troubling to them about Obama. Of course it matters what gets done when he is in office, but still, this is a tough call for me. I do not think Bush overall has been a good President, and think his place in history, Presidentially speaking, will be bottom of the barrel, but he certainly has tried to make strides where peace in the Middle East is concerned. I like things about each candidate in a vacuum, but have troubles with each of them too. This makes the choice a tough one. Obama had made statements which were criticized and he then tried to reframe them, but I just am left with some doubts.
I am not a political savant, not at all, and boy I would love to see the US elect a woman or a mixed race or non White President. The recent issues with his pastor are troubling to me as well. I could not sit in a church for 20 plus years and listen to someone be so divisive and so hate mongering, especially if I did not feel the same way. Uniting people is great, but using hate to motivate is not. Farrakahn, as a member of the same congregation, has been honored and praised by Reverend Wright. Farrakahn has spouted some of the most heinous and awful anti semitic commentary I have ever heard.

These are my views. People can certainly disagree, which is fine. But they still hold relevance to me and are part of a larger picture, including the war, healthcare, our economy, the environment...all of which are critical too.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 3/22/2008 8:33:37 AM
Author:
Obama has said it: by invading Iraq (which had no ties to the religious extremists who attacked the United States on 9/11), we took the focus off Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Osama bin Laden (who were tied to those attacks). Why? Why have so many innocent Iraqis had to die for five long years? Why have so many American soldiers been killed or maimed for life in Iraq? Why Is the United States so cozy with Saudi Arabia?

This was also a major concern of mind just before the war was launched. I was utterly confused about what Saddam/Iraq had to do with 9/11 and could not figure out why we weren''t putting our energy toward that effort.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 3/22/2008 12:04:27 PM
Author: diamondfan
He has made statements about things that, if he were to follow through as President, would likely jeopardize Israel. Bush, much as I dislike most things about him (mainly the war and the loss of life involved) has been one of the most pro Israel presidents we have had. McCain, again, though I do not love all things about him, is very pro Israel. This is something I feel strongly about. I have many Jewish friends here who are admittedly more religious/observant than I am, and they have many ties to Israel and they all have stated that this one aspect is troubling to them about Obama. Of course it matters what gets done when he is in office, but still, this is a tough call for me. I do not think Bush overall has been a good President, and think his place in history, Presidentially speaking, will be bottom of the barrel, but he certainly has tried to make strides where peace in the Middle East is concerned. I like things about each candidate in a vacuum, but have troubles with each of them too. This makes the choice a tough one. Obama had made statements which were criticized and he then tried to reframe them, but I just am left with some doubts.

While I understand your view, I''m not sure it''s good for any president to be pro one particular country at the expense of many. It simply is not fair.

I am not a political savant, not at all, and boy I would love to see the US elect a woman or a mixed race or non White President. The recent issues with his pastor are troubling to me as well. I could not sit in a church for 20 plus years and listen to someone be so divisive and so hate mongering, especially if I did not feel the same way. Uniting people is great, but using hate to motivate is not. Farrakahn, as a member of the same congregation, has been honored and praised by Reverend Wright. Farrakahn has spouted some of the most heinous and awful anti semitic commentary I have ever heard.

You are assuming that Rev. Wright spent 20 years preaching only what people have seen on a youtube, that is simply incorrect. I''m not sure why anyone believes that a youtube clip is the sum of all he is. No one is that simple. He was a very highly regarded and respected member of religious society (which is why he was invited to the White House by Bill Clinton), I can very easily see how Obama befriended this man over the course of 20 years. Also, you are incorrect on Farrakahn, he is not a member of the same congregation, he is the leader of Nation Of Islam. A completely separate faith, they are not Christians.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/22/2008 12:04:27 PM
Author: diamondfan

Farrakahn, as a member of the same congregation, has been honored and praised by Reverend Wright.

Louis Farrakhan is a leader of the Nation of Islam and, therefore, a Muslim. Senator Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ, and, therefore, a member of the Congregational Church, a Christian. They are not members of the same faith, let alone the same congregation.

Deborah

 

[movie zombie]

re Rev. Wright and what he said or didn''t say, please see: http://www.timwise.org/

go to essays and then Of National Lies and Racial Amnesia:
Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama, and the Audacity of Truth

a must read for anyone.

movie zombie

 

[diamondfan]

Mental head slap, of course he is not in the church, but he has close ties to the Pastor and has been honored by him previously. The Pastor has stated his admiration for him and his ideology in the past. Farrakahn''s views are just totally offensive to me and to many others who have written about him and analyzed his words.

Also, I do not attend the church so my comments come from various political and religious leaders who have waded into the fray, and from seeing clips of various sermons he has given. Wright did not suddenly come to this viewpoint in December 2007 as he was about to leave the church. I am certain some of these views are longstanding and have been honed over time. The issues at the core are certainly quite complex and need to be addressed, stamping out racism and hate truly and once and for all would be incredible. but perhaps a cohesive versus divisive approach is needed now to unify this country.

As I stated, I am not a political expert. But I feel what I feel. And to me, Israel, as the only democracy in the Middle East and as a US supporter, IS an important nation, not exclusively, but as a broader picture, a key to a lot of stuff going on in that very volatile area. So someone having a very opposite view to that or someone who is not likely to move things forward is going to concern me, but that would not be the only reason I do not cast my vote for him.

 

[MoonWater]

Thank you so much movie zombie, that was excellent! I am so glad someone is willing to address this country''s history which many seem willing to forget quickly (at least the bad stuff).

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 3/22/2008 4:02:24 PM
Author: diamondfan
Mental head slap, of course he is not in the church, but he has close ties to the Pastor and has been honored by him previously. The Pastor has stated his admiration for him and his ideology in the past. Farrakahn''s views are just totally offensive to me and to many others who have written about him and analyzed his words.


Also, I do not attend the church so my comments come from various political and religious leaders who have waded into the fray, and from seeing clips of various sermons he has given. Wright did not suddenly come to this viewpoint in December 2007 as he was about to leave the church. I am certain some of these views are longstanding and have been honed over time. The issues at the core are certainly quite complex and need to be addressed, stamping out racism and hate truly and once and for all would be incredible. but perhaps a cohesive versus divisive approach is needed now to unify this country.


As I stated, I am not a political expert. But I feel what I feel. And to me, Israel, as the only democracy in the Middle East and as a US supporter, IS an important nation, not exclusively, but as a broader picture, a key to a lot of stuff going on in that very volatile area. So someone having a very opposite view to that or someone who is not likely to move things forward is going to concern me, but that would not be the only reason I do not cast my vote for him.

I think it would help if you laid out exactly what Obama''s views on Israel are that worry you. Because I''m confused on his stance that you think would be harmful.

 

[diamondfan]

I cannot imagine anyone reasonable thinking the warehousing of Indians on reservations as we stole their land and mistreated them is okay. Or the treatment of the slaves, which again is so awful it defies description. People do terrible things in the name of who knows what, in ignorance, or self viewed superiority...there have been, throughout the ages, many atrocities perpetrated around the world. It continues to occur now, things like mass genocide that are just vile and show the baseness that mankind sadly is capable of. And I also do not disagree on some level with some of the thoughts of allegiance etc, that Rev. Wright posed, but to me, how can we, as a nation, try to get past it (NOT forget it or deny it or turn a blind eye) so that we can truly eradicate racial and religious and any other type of persecution for future generations. That is what is most critical in healing and truly making changes.

 

[MoonWater]

Can you tell me what Obama''s views on Israel are?

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 3/22/2008 9:46:50 PM
Author: MoonWater
Can you tell me what Obama's views on Israel are?

Obama has said, Israel's "security is sacrosanct."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/27/AR2008022703512.html

He came out with that statement a few weeks ago.

I'm no Obama devotee-- I supported Kucinich, then Edwards, and now I am at a crossroads. (My Kucinich bumper sticker is still on my car!)

--But I do believe that the Right Wing Machine is trying it's hardest to dig up whatever dirt it can on Obama, and in my humble opinion, this includes his relationship with Israel and Jewish Americans, and the link to Farrakhan via Rev.
Wright. It is also my understanding that Obama does not whatsoever condone the Farrakhan's ideologies.

Attacking Hillary Clinton is a piece of cake for the Right Wing Machine. Obama?
A little trickier. And you can bet that if he wins the nomination, the gloves will come off in ways we never expected. He's surprising everyone.

 

[MoonWater]

Thanks for the link coatimudi (love love your rings btw, every time I see your avatar I drool) but that still doesn''t tell me what about Obama worries Jewish people. I know this Farrakahn stuff is utterly annoying. He gets props in the black community because the Nation of Islam, in spite of some of it''s horrid beliefs, has reached out to help poor unfortunate, sometimes drug addicted African-Americans. It''s much like a cult in that way, praying on the less fortunate. But I''m a huge Malcolm X fan, I read his autobiography (and no the film doesn''t do it justice in the slightest) and as a result, I absolutely can not stand, dare I say, hate Farrakhan. I truly believe the man is responsible for Malcolm''s death. So it''s unfortunate that someone like Obama, who has shown nothing but inclusiveness throughout his life, has to be remotely associated with the guy.

 

[movie zombie]

you''re welcome, moon!

and another, except this is one to ''watch'': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhZzh83C0iM

like coati, i was and am a kucinich supporter. while i admire obama''s speech and some other things as well, i just don''t find him to be that different from ms hillary......one has to go deeper than speeches and look at who is behind the scenes with these candidates.

movie zomie

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 3/23/2008 12:02:49 PM
Author: MoonWater
Thanks for the link coatimudi (love love your rings btw, every time I see your avatar I drool) but that still doesn't tell me what about Obama worries Jewish people. I know this Farrakahn stuff is utterly annoying. He gets props in the black community because the Nation of Islam, in spite of some of it's horrid beliefs, has reached out to help poor unfortunate, sometimes drug addicted African-Americans. It's much like a cult in that way, praying on the less fortunate. But I'm a huge Malcolm X fan, I read his autobiography (and no the film doesn't do it justice in the slightest) and as a result, I absolutely can not stand, dare I say, hate Farrakhan. I truly believe the man is responsible for Malcolm's death. So it's unfortunate that someone like Obama, who has shown nothing but inclusiveness throughout his life, has to be remotely associated with the guy.

Your welcome! (and thank you!)

It's most unfortunate that Obama has been linked to Farrakhan, and his insanity.
Pure Right Wing propaganda.

I too have a deep dislike for Farrakhan. When I was in High School, I saw him speak. Being a teenager, I knew nothing about him. In his speech, he stated that all biracial children should be sent into isolation(an island), because they don't belong in society. I am biracial, and this made me more angry than you can imagine. I promptly rose from my seat and walked out of the auditorium, but before I left, I turned around, raised my hand, and gave him, A LONG BIRD. (I was young, what can I say?)

That was my first experience with Farrakhan.

Obama is not prejudiced, this is plain. It's absurd that the Right is going there, and I dread what they will pull when he actually is the nominee.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 3/23/2008 12:14:14 PM
Author: movie zombie
you're welcome, moon!


and another, except this is one to 'watch': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhZzh83C0iM


like coati, i was and am a kucinich supporter. while i admire obama's speech and some other things as well, i just don't find him to be that different from ms hillary......one has to go deeper than speeches and look at who is behind the scenes with these candidates.


movie zomie

+1 (they're both corporate Democrats)
Kucinich is STILL the man!

MZ, did you hear his short interview on Democracy Now? about the "secret sessions?"

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/14/house_hold_rare_secret_session_on

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 3/23/2008 12:36:37 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 3/23/2008 12:02:49 PM

Author: MoonWater

Thanks for the link coatimudi (love love your rings btw, every time I see your avatar I drool) but that still doesn''t tell me what about Obama worries Jewish people. I know this Farrakahn stuff is utterly annoying. He gets props in the black community because the Nation of Islam, in spite of some of it''s horrid beliefs, has reached out to help poor unfortunate, sometimes drug addicted African-Americans. It''s much like a cult in that way, praying on the less fortunate. But I''m a huge Malcolm X fan, I read his autobiography (and no the film doesn''t do it justice in the slightest) and as a result, I absolutely can not stand, dare I say, hate Farrakhan. I truly believe the man is responsible for Malcolm''s death. So it''s unfortunate that someone like Obama, who has shown nothing but inclusiveness throughout his life, has to be remotely associated with the guy.

Your welcome! (and thank you!)


It''s most unfortunate that Obama has been linked to Farrakhan, and his insanity.

Pure Right Wing propaganda.


I too have a deep dislike for Farrakhan. When I was in High School, I saw him speak. Being a teenager, I knew nothing about him. In his speech, he stated that all biracial children should be sent into isolation(an island), because they don''t belong in society. I am biracial, and this made me more angry than you can imagine. I promptly rose from my seat and walked out of the auditorium, but before I left, I turned around, raised my hand, and gave him, A LONG BIRD. (I was young, what can I say?)


That was my first experience with Farrakhan.


Obama is not prejudiced, this is plain. It''s absurd that the Right is going there, and I dread what they will pull when he actually is the nominee.

Oh wow! Kudos to you!! I wish I could have been there to join you. He is such a psycho!

Now, on the differences between Hillary and Obama, I think it''s a matter of character. I don''t think Hillary has any.

 

[diamondfan]

Even not as a biracial person that would seriously tick me off. Farrakahn is vile. How anyone could align themselves with him is beyond me. How offensive to be listening to that.

I certainly do not think Obama is racist, and he has a view into both worlds racially speaking. I just feel he is a smooth polished man but I do not feel I know a lot of the substance. He certainly is an eloquent speaker and very accomplished.

Hillary I am not sure. She is bright and has an agenda that she is working towards, but I am not sure what is at the core of it.

I do not know a lot about Malcolm X but would love to learn. He seemed like a really powerful force in his day. I did not see the film but would love to read about him.

 

[movie zombie]

kucinich was the only politician to show up to hear these vets speak........

movie zombie

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 3/23/2008 2:03:51 PM
Author: movie zombie
kucinich was the only politician to show up to hear these vets speak........


movie zombie

My husband and I listened to those broadcasts last week on Democracy Now.

It is shameful that The Winter Soldier Hearings did not receive any major public media attention.

The candidates should have been there.

Hi folks, if you click on the link above, you can hear the testimonies of hundreds of US soldiers who have returned from Iraq and Afghanistan. It is heartbreaking, and should be heard by all Americans, but the mainstream media won't cover it.