Neighbors and Fences

[MayFlowers]

Ok guys, you PSers always give good advice about etiquette and manners. So I need your help.

FI and I moved into our first house last October. We live in a neighborhood that is out in the "country" (about 30 minutes from the closest store). Each lot in the neighborhood has at least one acre and many of them are partially treed. Since we aren't particularly in close proximity to our neighbors, we haven't really gotten to know any of them. We have talked to the neighbors on our right and across the street from us, who both happen to be close to our age. For the most part though, it is just waves or "hi" if we happen to cross paths with anyone else. FI and I are both rather shy/quiet people. If we could have afforded it, we would have bought a home with enough land that we wouldn't even see neighbors.

We recently added a lab puppy to our family in June and he really needs a place to be able to run off leash. Most people in our neighborhood who have dogs, have an electric fence for them. On our side of the street, no one has a fence in their backyard. So if you walk out into the back yard, you can look across open land for the whole street, which is only 5 houses. We thought about putting in an electric fence, but this doesn't prevent other dogs (who are let to freely roam the neighborhood) come into our yard. FI also really loves the aesthetic of a 4 board horse fence and has talked of one since before we started looking at houses. We have decided to go with the 4 board fence, with wire attached to keep the pup inside.

My question is, do I really need to approach the neighbors for "permission" to put up the fence? We don't have a HOA so there aren't any restrictions within the neighborhood about types of fence or anything. The property was surveyed and staked when we closed on the house, so there aren't any issues with property lines. We plan to put the fence a foot inside the property line just to make sure there isn't any question of which side it's on. The only issue I can see is where the neighbor's yard to our left meets up with ours. Their house is on the corner and faces the corner directly. Their property is still in a square shape though. So, if you were to look straight out their back door, you can see the stake to our property. There is also a small line of trees that the property line cuts through. If we were to follow our line, we would be breaking up that line of trees and I almost feel like we would be intruding on their property since it goes so far behind their house and only about 3 feet away from their shed. I suggested just leaving that part out of the fenced-in area, but then FI feels like we are giving up part of our yard.

Part of me wants to just put the fence in without talking to them because it will be on our property and we can do what we want with it. But, I don't want to start any kind of feud with neighbors since we don't plan to ever move. I feel like it's also awkward because we haven't ever talked to them. Like I said before, FI and I are both quiet people and neither one of us are too great with approaching someone we don't know.

So, if you survived all my rambling, can anyone give me some advice? Have you ever dealt with a neighbor putting up a fence you didn't know about? What would be the easiest way to approach the neighbor about putting up a fence?

 

[kenny]

I'd put the fence on the property line, or like 0.00001 inch from it.
In some states if you put is well within your land you may 'lose' the land between the fence and your property line to a 'prescriptive easement'.

That's where if a neighbor 'uses' your land regularly (like going for a walk or riding their horse) for X period of time they secure the right to do so forever, and you can't stop them.

Call your city/county planning dept, permits etc.
Ask them about prescriptive easements and what fencing type/material, depth, height is allowed.

If you are permitted to put one up, do so.
I would not ask neighbors.
They may say no.
Then what?

 

[VRBeauty]

I'd put the fence on the property line, or like 0.00001 inch from it.
If you put is well within your land you may 'lose' the land between the fence and your property line to a 'prescriptive easement', if you state has that.

Ditto.

But I do think you should let your neighbors know you're putting up a fence because whoever is doing it may need to be on their property at some point in the construction process. Besides, doing the work without letting advance warning, while perfectly permissible, is a rather "in your face" way of going about it that's more likely to leave hard feelings that letting them know beforehand and then, if necessary, asserting your right to build the fence.

 

[packrat]

We put up a 6ft wooden privacy fence around our backyard before we moved in. We live in town, and no one else in our neighborhood has a fence to this extent. A couple with something similar to what you're saying. We didn't talk to the neighbors, but we did have to get a building permit from the city to do it.

 

[AGBF]

I don't operate like VRBeauty and kenny. It has also meant that I don't always get the fence of my dreams. On the other hand, I have had a very friendly relationship with a neighbor who could sometimes be difficult (not that I knew that when I moved in) by consulting and going with the flow.

I no longer live in the house about which I am speaking. I moved into it with my husband and daughter when my daughter was three. I wanted to put a white picket fence around my backyard. My next door neighbor on one side had a natural wood split rail fence on his property. The houses were all very close in a charming neighborhood. I asked the neighbors on each side how they would feel about our proposed fence and this neighbor thought it would look terrible! He may have used the word, "eyesore". He felt it would stick out like a sore thumb. He was into natural wood and so forth. I liked the idea of a house with white trim and a white picket fence. (The house we were buying had not had white trim when we bought it, although it did after I had it painted!)

At any rate, to appease him, I put in a natural wood fence in our backyard...which was fine, because with a three year-old I was going to buy a swing set anyway and I got a lovely wooden one that went well with the fence. But I always consult with the neighbors. If I haven't met them, it's an opportunity to do so. If I ever found anyone to be outrageously arrogant and dismissive, I suspect that I would do as I wished on my own property. I do not like to start out that way, however.

Deb/AGBF

 

[SB621]

I fensed in our backyard without discussing it with our neighbors. I guess I could have been nice and given them a heads up but the fact is I have 2 small children and 2 very active wondering dogs. I live by a heavily wooded area that is infested with ticks, snakes and who knows what else. We cleared whatever we could legally clear and then I put up a 6 foot fense. It gives me peace of mind that we have a safer backyard now. But my neighbors are also a little crazy and we try very hard to not interact with them so it was a bonus as well.

 

[AprilBaby]

Ditto the fence on the property line. I am in close quarters with the house behind me. We put up a fence to get away from them. They had put paving stones on our side of the property line that they had to remove for our fence. If we had gone a foot in the pavers would have stayed and they could have claimed that land. I did tell them the day before it was installed it was going up. Our fencers removed the pavers. In the end, both of us are happier with the new fence between us.

 

[movie zombie]

some areas have rules re fence location. in this county the fence is NOT to be placed on the property line but back by some designated # of feet.......admittedly, i live in a forest so we did put one up on the property line on one part of the property. before you proceed, check for building codes as well as some places have height limits. i'd worry less about neighbor permission and more about meeting local code thereby making any neighbor's complaint irrelevant.

i grew up with fences in a small central valley town. my travels through the mid-West leave me believing that fences are frowned upon..........

 

[kenny]

I live in a major metropolitan area where land is precious so lots are very small.
A year ago my neighbor told me 'our' old wood fence is starting to fall over due to rot.

We chipped in to replace it.
They were much more particular than I when it came to wood quality since I do not see the fence but their whole house is oriented to view it.
They offered to pay 2/3 if we took the ugly side and they got the pretty side.
They see a clean smooth perfect wood fence and I see the support posts and 2x4 supports between posts.
No problem.
We both just assumed the old one and the new one is right on the property line.

Good fences make good neighbors, they say.

 

[rainwood]

I fall in the camp of not consulting the neighbors unless you are willing to abide by any objections they have. It's better to just put the fence up without consulting the neighbors than to ask them, get objections, and do it anyway.

It's best to know the applicable building codes or ordinances on the allowed location. In our city, we have to put our fences one foot inside the property line as you are planning to do. Putting it on the property line seems like the logical location, but lots of building codes don't allow that.

 

[VRBeauty]

Good point about the building codes, MZ! In our city the requirements for a fence that faces a sidewalk are different from those for a backyard fence... the sidewalk fence has to be set back if it's solid, although it can be on the property line if it's a more open style like a picket fence. I have seen situations where people apparently had to move or tear down fences that did not comply.

ETA backyard fences can be on the property line and solid, but there's a height restriction. Point is - know what's allowed or not in your area.

 

[kgizo]

I don't think you should ask their opinion, but it is nice to give the adjoining lot neighbors a heads up. Especially since it sounds like you may need to work around some trees. One way you can do this is to inform them you are putting in a fence next week and if they might like one too you can let them know who you are using in case they want to get a quote. That way you are stating what you are doing in no uncertain terms, and offering to do them a favor. Be prepared that some people are just complainers so be ready with one statement that you can repeat no matter what they bitch about (ie, we need the fence for the safety of our dog). If you counter every different complaint with a response it often evolves into a big argument so I find it is best to repeat one point. As others have stated, make sure you know the codes (height, type, etc).

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Please check your building codes first. There is a problem with not putting your fence on the property line. If you put the fence inside by one foot, , the back end could have a gap if each property owner individually fenced the back themselves one foot in from the property line. This happened to me/ We are required to put our fences on the property line, which my neighbor failed to do. I had to have the neighbors sign a statement , and get the building department involved, so it was a hassle.

I would not ask my neighbor, just check with the building department.


Annette

 

[Aoife]

Isn't there a saying about fences making for good neighbors?

Definitely check to see what the local rules are about fences. We've lived all over the US, and there are wild variations in rules and ordinances: fences on the property line (but the property line needs to have been recently surveyed and compared to the original plat) within the property line by 6 inches, within the property-line no less than a foot, etc. And every other variation you can think of. There may be rules about height, materials, how far away you have to be from any existing shrubbery or trees, how far along the sides of the house you may start the fence, and on and on, depending on where you live. You might also need to consider the local, unspoken rules about fencing. When we lived in one upper-Midwestern state, if anyone built a fence in a neighborhood, even though there were no rules explicitly forbidding it, it was viewed as an act of war by neighbors. We weren't the fence-builders, but we heard many neighborhood comments along the lines of "So what are they doing back there that they need to hide? There's something not right with that family." No, I am not joking or exaggerating.

That said, while it might be polite to give the neighbors a heads-up, don't ask permission unless you are prepared to abide by a negative response.

 

[amc80]

I would let the neighbors know about the fence in advance, but not go so far as to ask permission; you don't need it.

i grew up with fences in a small central valley town.

OT: as in the CA central valley? Me too. Uh, have we had this conversation before?

 

[Meezermom]

If you don't have a Homeowner's Association with their rules and regulations, then if I were you, I would not consult with the neighbors. Figure out from your survey where your lot line is, and bring it within an inch or two of the line. Just make sure you find out if you need a permit from your Zoning Commission to erect a fence - they might have specification that you will need to adhere to.

 

[Enerchi]

Fences do make good neighbours because it keeps dogs and people both OUT and IN! I'd say go for it because it is easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission. Pick the style you like and confirm with city/county bylaws as to where it can be located if it is just you paying for it. Find out if it can be on the lot line or a set amount of feet back from the lot line.

Down side to not sharing and consulting is that you bear the brunt of the cost and as kenny said above, you could lose some footage as they encroach on your land.

 

[dragonfly411]

I would NOT ask permission. I would let them know the fence is going up and PUT IT ON THE PROPERTY LINE! You do not want to lose your property later on b/c of a misunderstanding.