How can I sit by and watch?

[snow12]

A close friend of mine is in a bad relationship and doesn't see it. I'll call her - Amy and her partner Josh. Amy, my sister and I are best friends.

Amy and Josh met about a year and a half ago while Amy and her friends were on vacation for the weekend. They met while they were out at the bar. Josh was so infatuated with Amy that he wouldn't let her out of his sight the whole night. Amy and Josh exchanged numbers and dated long distance for a long time. Amy lived 8 hours away from Josh in my hometown. One of the weekends Amy came out to visit Josh she found a spreadsheet with her name among with many other females names, all comparing each other in various categories (intelligence, attractiveness, sex, ect.) Amy never mentioned this to Josh.

Fast forward 6 months and Josh finally meets Amy's family. My sister and I live in the same city as Josh and were home visiting our family which is in the same town as Amy's family. While out at the bar catching up with high school friends, Josh gets mad because Amy is talking to a guy on the other side of the bar. He doesn't confront her but instead to make her jealous, puts his hand down my shirt when she comes over. This was NOT acceptable for me, my Fiance was standing right there and had to say something to him. Or maybe, I have no idea why he did that!

Fast forward to the past few months.. Amy moved all the way out from her hometown to move in with Josh. Josh insisted that Amy delete her facebook account because there were too many pictures with her and other males. Keep in mind that Amy and I went to small schools were the graduating class was only about 15 people, so being friends with guys was totally normal since you didn't have that many people in one class anyways.

In the past when Amy lived at home, when I would come visit, I would see her all weekend long. Since she has been with Josh, she isn't allowed to stay out past midnight, isnt allowed to have anything that attaches her to a past life. For example, my sister lives near me in the same city. Amy and my sister went to a NBA game last week. My sisters company gives away free tickets. Josh was mad that Amy was going to go to the game. Amy took a water bottle from her home and brought it to the game so she would have something to drink. Josh did not see Amy take the water bottle to the game. When Amy got home, Josh questioned at her about the water bottle. Amy couldn't remember where she got it, and thought that it was one she had from high school. Josh made her throw out the water bottle because she "must have had some GREAT times with it."

Now next month, Josh's parents are visiting from overseas and Amy is moving out of the apartment because Josh said it would be best if his parents didn't know they are together. He is making her rent out a room with a friend of his. He also made her change her mail for the month and took her name off their mailbox already.

She isn't allowed to have anything that ties her to her past and has to follow all of these strict guidelines. The last time I saw her, I was at her house getting some clothes she was going to throw away and Josh says that Amy better keep those clothes and not give them to me because she was getting fat again and wouldn't fit into anything she bought recently. She lost over 40 lbs. Josh pushed her to go to the gym 2 times a day. and wouldn't allow any wheat or dairy in there apartment. Amy went shopping once and bought eggs and Josh made her throw them out. Amy is so blinded that she can't see how abusive her relationship with Josh is.

I'm so tired of sitting back and watching all this unfold. Am I overreacting to all of this? Amy doesn't tell me everything that has happened but confides in my sister mostly. Also, Amy is 26 years old. I feel like the things that Josh is making Amy do is stuff that boys do in high school.

 

[Maisie]

You can tell her how you feel but i'm willing to bet that she won't listen. My sister is in a really abusive relationship and she won't listen to anyone. I've had to step back and not be so involved in her life because its too upsetting to see what goes on. Maybe you will have to do the same.

 

[mrs jam]

Josh needs to take a long walk over a short pier.

Amy is choosing to avoid dealing with all the red flags that are popping up and waving in her face. Been there, done that. After a while, if she hasn't already, she will lose sight of what a "normal" loving relationship looks like and feels like. You and your sister need to be persistent about telling her how sick in the head Josh is and how unfit he is for her. She is sliding down a slippery slope, and it only gets harder the further down she goes. Everyone always thinks that one day there will be a straw that finally breaks the camel's back and will make it easy to leave an *******, but the truth is that the more beat-up a person becomes, the more horrible the behavior she (or he) will accept.

Does she have any guy friends left who can help set her straight? Would your fiancé help talk to her? For some reason, hearing about what a jerk my ex was from a couple of my guy friends seemed to help me realize how horribly I was allowing myself to be treated.

 

[snow12]

I'm just so torn on what to do. Obviously she sees how she is being treated is wrong because she's telling my sister about it right? I've talked to her about it before on how she should be treated and she just says yeah I know but doesn't change anything.

I used to see her all the time! When her a "Josh" were first together, my sister and I drove home about twice a month and we saw her every weekend. Since she moved out to live with Josh I've only seen her 5 times in the last 8 months and she lives 1.2 miles from me.

It's always what HE wants too. I recently got engaged and I asked her what kind of ring she liked and she said well its whatever Josh wants to get me. And on top of that, he's hiding her from his family... and its not a cultural thing, its a HIM thing. My fiance is from the same country and culture Josh is and acts nothing like him.

 

[movie zombie]

her life, her choice.
bad choice, agreed.
however, the best you can do is say i love you and value our friendship but i don't like what is happening to you in this abusive relationship. i will always be there for you but right now it is hard to be around and see you treated with such disrespect.
and then STFU, step back, and limit your contact with her to sending a card or text on her birthday.
i admit it sounds like this guy is going to end up controling her every move and thought and he may even not allow her to receive text messages from you. in the end, though, it is her life and her choice. she is 26. she is not in high school. she is tolerating this for some reason within her own emotional/psychological makeup. you can change nothing but let it be known that you will be there for her should she decide to leave this guy......hard to do.

 

[onedrop]

Clearly your friend is in a less than ideal situation. I feel for you in having to stand by and watch it happen. Unfortunately, I think all you can do is state your feelings about her situation, and try to be there for her when she needs it. It's a painful thing to watch unfold, but Amy has made her choice to be with this man, and she has to make her own choice to leave. So if you haven't already, I would sit down and talk with her about her the red flags you see, but make sure to try to keep the lines of communication open, because she will need support when/if she decides to leave.

 

[Haven]

Clearly your friend is in a less than ideal situation. I feel for you in having to stand by and watch it happen. Unfortunately, I think all you can do is state your feelings about her situation, and try to be there for her when she needs it. It's a painful thing to watch unfold, but Amy has made her choice to be with this man, and she has to make her own choice to leave. So if you haven't already, I would sit down and talk with her about her the red flags you see, but make sure to try to keep the lines of communication open, because she will need support when/if she decides to leave.

I agree. There's not much more you can do.

 

[snow12]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I'm going to stay quiet until after Josh's parents go back to their home country after the month is up and see what happens.

 

[tammy77]

Use the month that her "bf" is kicking her out of the apt to help her remember what life with out Josh is, and that it's a heck of a lot better than living under his overbearing thumb.

He can't be in two places at once, and it sounds like Mommy and Daddy visiting will provide the perfect opportunity. Can you let your friend stay with you instead of spending money renting a room from his friend? Surely you can convince her to if there's space. I'd sleep on the couch myself if it meant getting her out of that toxic situation! I would absolutely not wait, use this time to get her free.

ETA: I don't know why I thought it was your sister. Edited to fix my brain fart!

 

[Aoife]

Use the month that her "bf" is kicking her out of the apt to help her remember what life with out Josh is, and that it's a heck of a lot better than living under his overbearing thumb.

He can't be in two places at once, and it sounds like Mommy and Daddy visiting will provide the perfect opportunity. Can you let your friend stay with you instead of spending money renting a room from his friend? Surely you can convince her to if there's space. I'd sleep on the couch myself if it meant getting her out of that toxic situation! I would absolutely not wait, use this time to get her free.

ETA: I don't know why I thought it was your sister. Edited to fix my brain fart!

I agree with this. You have a window of opportunity here that may never come your way again. Just don't be surprised if your friend doesn't see the light.

 

[kenny]

her life, her choice.
bad choice, agreed.
however, the best you can do is say i love you and value our friendship but i don't like what is happening to you in this abusive relationship. i will always be there for you but right now it is hard to be around and see you treated with such disrespect.
and then STFU, step back, and limit your contact with her to sending a card or text on her birthday.
i admit it sounds like this guy is going to end up controling her every move and thought and he may even not allow her to receive text messages from you. in the end, though, it is her life and her choice. she is 26. she is not in high school. she is tolerating this for some reason within her own emotional/psychological makeup. you can change nothing but let it be known that you will be there for her should she decide to leave this guy......hard to do.

+1

 

[maebelle]

Use the month that her "bf" is kicking her out of the apt to help her remember what life with out Josh is, and that it's a heck of a lot better than living under his overbearing thumb.

He can't be in two places at once, and it sounds like Mommy and Daddy visiting will provide the perfect opportunity. Can you let your friend stay with you instead of spending money renting a room from his friend? Surely you can convince her to if there's space. I'd sleep on the couch myself if it meant getting her out of that toxic situation! I would absolutely not wait, use this time to get her free.

ETA: I don't know why I thought it was your sister. Edited to fix my brain fart!

Exactly! Use this month the hang out with her and remind her what life is like!

 

[allycat0303]

He put his HAND DOWN your shirt?????????? Did I misread that? I would have slapped him across the face and there would be no more issue about how I felt about him. That is beyond unacceptable.

 

[iheartscience]

He put his HAND DOWN your shirt?????????? Did I misread that? I would have slapped him across the face and there would be no more issue about how I felt about him. That is beyond unacceptable.

THIS. I agree that there isn't really anything you can do.

 

[asscherisme]

Use the month that her "bf" is kicking her out of the apt to help her remember what life with out Josh is, and that it's a heck of a lot better than living under his overbearing thumb.

He can't be in two places at once, and it sounds like Mommy and Daddy visiting will provide the perfect opportunity. Can you let your friend stay with you instead of spending money renting a room from his friend? Surely you can convince her to if there's space. I'd sleep on the couch myself if it meant getting her out of that toxic situation! I would absolutely not wait, use this time to get her free.

ETA: I don't know why I thought it was your sister. Edited to fix my brain fart!

Exactly! Use this month the hang out with her and remind her what life is like!

Agreed. And you said this is H.S. behavior? I have a son in H.S. and even in HS is not acceptable.

Its only going to get worse for her if she does not get out.

Hopefully she won't get pregnant. He sounds like a nightmare and a baby will tie her to him forever.

 

[Gypsy]

Josh needs to take a long walk over a short pier.

This. But she has to be the one to do it. If she does, she'll grow as a person and be stronger and smarter. If she doesn't she'll wither up inside that abused shell (because he is abusive) and die (not physically, psychically).

There's not much you can do though.

 

[Mico]

I agree, I had always tried to be an advocate for my friends but in relationships like these... you just won't win.

The best you can do is be there for her. Sometimes someone in a relationship like that just need someone to listen to them. If you get her to the point where she actually hears herself out loud saying the things that are happening... she might actually realize what's going on.

and from other posts I've already guess what culture your fiance and friend's boyfriend are... and a sad truth is that it may actually be cultural and you actually found a good specimen within it . There's more to say about that but I don't want to jump to conclusions - I just want to tell you I know how you feel, and the best thing you can do is be there for her instead of making her feel alienated.

hugs

 

[Polished]

Use the month that her "bf" is kicking her out of the apt to help her remember what life with out Josh is, and that it's a heck of a lot better than living under his overbearing thumb.

He can't be in two places at once, and it sounds like Mommy and Daddy visiting will provide the perfect opportunity. Can you let your friend stay with you instead of spending money renting a room from his friend? Surely you can convince her to if there's space. I'd sleep on the couch myself if it meant getting her out of that toxic situation! I would absolutely not wait, use this time to get her free.

ETA: I don't know why I thought it was your sister. Edited to fix my brain fart!

Exactly! Use this month the hang out with her and remind her what life is like!

I'm another who agrees with this. My brother in law and his wife visited the Czech Republic when they had a small child. They saw that one of their cousins was in a quite abusive controlling relationship with a very good looking chap. They paid for her fare to come and stay with them in Australia, in return for her doing some babysitting for them. She had a lovely time getting to know all of us. She did some travelling and we took her to places on the weekend. There was also time to discuss with her the relationship she had with her boyfriend. The upshot was that on her return she finished it with the boyfriend. A few years on she is married to a lovely guy and they have a son. Extrication from the situation seems necessary and the chance to remind them of who they are and what used to be important to them. The needs seem a bit the same as straegies to encourage people to leave cults.

 

[QueenB29]

He put his HAND DOWN your shirt?????????? Did I misread that? I would have slapped him across the face and there would be no more issue about how I felt about him. That is beyond unacceptable.

THIS. I agree that there isn't really anything you can do.

Uh. Yeah. And all that happened was that your FI said something to him? There's a good chance this guy wouldn't even be alive if he tried something like that with me in front of my DH.......At the very least he'd be sporting some broken bones. But, I digress....

Normally, I would say to balance how much you hate this guy and saying something with the possibility that your friend might not speak to you again. However, in this case, I think (unfortunately) that you need to come to terms with the fact that you may lose your friend no matter what you do. (And personally, I could never be in the same room as this guy again after he molested me, so the friendship would have been essentially over at that point anyway ) Based on how controlling he is and how paranoid he is about her past and how little you already see her, there's a good chance he'll forbid her to see any of her friends at some point.

So I agree with the posters who said to use the month where he's kicking her out of their apartment to have a few heart-to-hearts with her. And I liked the suggestion of having your FI or some other guy friends talk to her as well. B/c if a guy thinks another guy is a jerk, well, that often speaks volumes..... And if you and/or your sister know her family at all, talk to them too. Her parents may already be concerned and may be in a better position to make her see reason. Maybe not. IDK, but it's worth a shot. None of this may help, though, but at least you'll have tried. And then you can say "I love you, I will always be here for you and I will help you in any way that I can, but I can't sit around and watch you be treated this way or expose myself to his abuse," and step back.

And if I thought for a second that he had hit her or that maybe his immigration paperwork wasn't in order, I personally wouldn't hesitate to report him to the authorities

I know from experience that you're in a really tough position, and I don't envy you. Hugs.

 

[yennyfire]

Have you tried bringing these things to her attention? I was in a very similar situation (except that I married the jerk b/c I was too scared to get out of it). I remember thinking....if I let him go, I won't find anyone else. I've stuck here in this city, far away from family, etc.

Once my marriage broke up, my two closest friends (and bridesmaids) told me that they thought I shouldn't have married him (and since we all went to college together, they'd known him as long as I had). I asked them why they hadn't said anything....they said that they didn't want to hurt me and didn't know how to bring it up. My parents had tried to tell me that they didn't like the way he treated me, but they lived on the other side of the country and didn't see much of what went on. I wouldn't listen to my parents, but I think I would have listened to my friends.

I might have been very angry with them if they had tried to tell me that Dave wasn't a nice guy, but in the end, they would have saved me a lot of heartache and in the long run, I know that I would have realized that they did what they did out of love for me.

Please talk to Amy and see if you can get her to see that she deserves better and that if he's this way now, it's only going to get worse. Offer to help her move out and get re-established at home (or wherever she wants to go). Tell her that there is a wonderful man out there waiting for her and that she WILL find him. My heart is breaking for her. I remember vividly how trapped I felt and how embarrased I was that I had let myself get into this situation. Make sure that she knows you're not judging her and that you love her and just want her to be happy.

Sending you many hugs. I know that talking to Amy will take a lot of courage on your part and that she may not listen right away, but in the end, she'll know that you love her and were trying to help her.

 

[onedrop]

With all of the other red flags going on in your friend's relationship, I completely missed the part where "Josh" put his hand down your shirt. This guy is much more than just controlling, he is a complete pig! Great advice from others about using the time that she is being "hidden" from the parents to get her to really see what is wrong with her "relationship." Hopefully Amy is receptive to what you have to say should you decide to be frank with her. If she's not, I wouldn't push the issue once you have laid it all out to her. If you push you'll run the risk of alienating her. I wish you luck!! It sucks to see a friend going to down the wrong path.

 

[snow12]

Unfortunately, Josh is a citizen and just became one, umm 3 or 4 months ago.

I offered for Amy to stay with me but her boyfriend wouldn't let her. I think its because the people Amy will be staying with are good friends with Josh so they can report back to him on what Amy is doing.

And yes my FI only said something to Josh after he put his hand down my shirt. He told me later he felt awful he didn't do more but he has NEVER dealt with a situation like that since Josh shouldn't be putting his hands on ANY female, ever.. totally unacceptable. and my FI didn't know how to react since where he comes from, men just don't touch women even to shake hands.

It's just one thing after another with them. I didn't mention that early in their relationship, Josh grabbed Amy so hard that he left fingerprint marks on her upper arm. Amy just keeps brushing off everything as separate issues and not seeing the whole picture.

I can't talk to her family about this because she isn't close to any of them. She doesn't tell her family anything personal. The only people she has ever confided in was my sister and I. Before she moved in the Josh, she worked at her mothers business. Her mom is completely crazy and actually assaulted Amy in the shower because she was going to be late for her shift at work. I think this and how Amy has been treated all her life makes Amy blind to see what Josh is doing wrong and how he manipulates her.

My sister is waiting in the wings to see what happens after Josh's parents visit. My FI suspects that if Amy meets his family, and Josh's family doesn't approve, then he will leave her. A huge thing is getting the parents permission. and I feel like if they do say its okay for them to be together, they'll rush to get engaged and married!

Sorry if I missed anything!

 

[movie zombie]

.......And yes my FI only said something to Josh after he put his hand down my shirt. He told me later he felt awful he didn't do more but he has NEVER dealt with a situation like that since Josh shouldn't be putting his hands on ANY female, ever.. totally unacceptable. and my FI didn't know how to react since where he comes from, men just don't touch women even to shake hands.

i'm sorry but Josh is controlling everyone around him. no one seems to know how to react to him....including you and your FI. why did you not slap him? why did you not call him out loudly? why did you not tell her how offended you were? you were not reliant on your FI in this situation. it wasn't up to him to set limits on your body. it was up to you.

so think about this: if you weren't able to check him in this situation, how to you expect her to do so when she thinks she's in love with him?

before you try and change someone else, remember how hard it is to change yourself.

the more you reveal the more it is obvious that she has self-esteem issues. she does not see herself as worthy of anything other than the treatment she receives, whether from her mother or from Josh.

again, the best you can do is point this out to her. that there is a better way of life. that she can indeed make her own choices on where she wants to stay while the parents are here. but ultimately it is her life. it is hard to watch. but i'm going to say it again: you didn't set limits with this guy very effectively so don't expect her to have any great breakthroughs herself.

sorry for the rant. her situation is not your fault. but allowing this man to disrespect you just pisses me off no end.

 

[QueenB29]

snow, how did Amy react when Josh put his hand down your shirt? Did she react at all? I don't think you said. B/c if you (not YOU, snow, just a hypothetical you) let someone disrespect you and abuse you, it's wrong and sad and heartbreaking, but IMHO, things are even worse when you're willing to let that person disrespect and abuse your loved ones.

 

[sstephensid]

.......And yes my FI only said something to Josh after he put his hand down my shirt. He told me later he felt awful he didn't do more but he has NEVER dealt with a situation like that since Josh shouldn't be putting his hands on ANY female, ever.. totally unacceptable. and my FI didn't know how to react since where he comes from, men just don't touch women even to shake hands.

i'm sorry but Josh is controlling everyone around him. no one seems to know how to react to him....including you and your FI. why did you not slap him? why did you not call him out loudly? why did you not tell her how offended you were? you were not reliant on your FI in this situation. it wasn't up to him to set limits on your body. it was up to you.

so think about this: if you weren't able to check him in this situation, how to you expect her to do so when she thinks she's in love with him?

before you try and change someone else, remember how hard it is to change yourself.

I have been in situations that are just SO shocking that I didn't do anything. I was practically paralyzed from shock. I imagine this whole thing lasted 5 seconds or less, and by the time her brain THOUGHT to yell, scream, etc. it was a few minutes later...

 

[movie zombie]

better late than never.

most of women do not like to have a confrontation, especially in a social situation. however, if the OP didn't set a limit on his conduct an observer would assume she was ok with it.....just like her friend Amy is not setting limits with Josh.

i don't care what country he is originally from but he is here now and unless people start calling him on his inappropriate behavior right then and there he is going to continue to be abusive to all women around him.

the OP can't control her friend but she can control herself.....its too late now in that instance and i suspect she is very much limiting her contact with Josh. but everyone around this guy needs to understand he is abusive and lashes out physically...especially at women...when angered. having a plan of action when he does this is necessary for many reasons. i actually think he could be dangerous and not just to Amy.

snow is right to be concerned about her friend. but the reality is she cannot do anything but keep a door open to help when Amy is seeks it. snow also has a right to protect herself from Josh....and should plan on doing so each and every time he crosses the line. make no mistake: that was physical/sexual assault. he got away with it. and because of that he will do it again. this type of guy knows what he's doing.

 

[onedrop]

i don't care what country he is originally from but he is here now and unless people start calling him on his inappropriate behavior right then and there he is going to continue to be abusive to all women around him.

I agree with MZ. And honestly, it doesn't matter what country he's from, this kind of behavior is never appropriate. It makes me wonder how deeply disturbed Josh is that he would stick is hand down snow's shirt completely disregarding the fact that her FI was standing right there.

Based upon what snow wrote about Amy's background, it is not a surprise that she is in this dysfunctional relationship. Her background also does not make me feel hopeful that she will get out of this situation easily.

 

[Gypsy]

Unfortunately, Josh is a citizen and just became one, umm 3 or 4 months ago.

I offered for Amy to stay with me but her boyfriend wouldn't let her. I think its because the people Amy will be staying with are good friends with Josh so they can report back to him on what Amy is doing.

NO, it's not the reporting. It's the isolating. Look up abusive spouses and read about how they isolate their prey so they are dependent on them. If you CAN and WANT TO buy her a book about abusive relationship patterns TELL HER TO HIDE IT BUT PROMISE TO READ IT and highlight a few key passages-- the way they isolate their victims so that they are helpless and dependent only on them. It's a control and abuse thing. Very common. Very effective. BUT that can backfire on you. Here's why:

He already knows you are his enemy, that's why she's not allowed to stay with you. Soon you won't HAVE to do anything. She will do it for you. He will make certain she breaks off her friendship with you. If you give her that book you will be PROVING his point: that you are his (and therefore, the way he will twist it) enemy and that if you were a "true" friend you would be supportive. And then she will just.. go along with it and you won't hear from her again. If that happens the only thing you can do is try to get her a message that "when you are ready, I will be here for you".

 

[Gypsy]

If you want to be sneaky. I have another suggestion. As a gift to her for her month away from him buy her these this trilogy:

http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Daddy-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/0312351623
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Eyed-Devil-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/0312351658
http://www.amazon.com/Smooth-Talking-Stranger-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/B002YNS0P8/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Buy them in hardback. Gift wrap them. And give them to her. They are really awesome contemporary romance novels. But the Blue Eyed Devil one shows an abusive relationship and shows the villain isolating her abusing her and her (eventually) getting away. It might help.

This is probably what *I* would be most likely to do if it were my friend.

He will hopefully just see them as romance fluff reading. And leave her alone. If you buy it in the trilogy he would actually have to pick up and READ the right book to understand the message. And he hopefully won't. And she'll get some good reading in... and maybe get a clue too.

 

[snow12]

If you want to be sneaky. I have another suggestion. As a gift to her for her month away from him buy her these this trilogy:

http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Daddy-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/0312351623
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Eyed-Devil-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/0312351658
http://www.amazon.com/Smooth-Talking-Stranger-Lisa-Kleypas/dp/B002YNS0P8/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Buy them in hardback. Gift wrap them. And give them to her. They are really awesome contemporary romance novels. But the Blue Eyed Devil one shows an abusive relationship and shows the villain isolating her abusing her and her (eventually) getting away. It might help.

This is probably what *I* would be most likely to do if it were my friend.

He will hopefully just see them as romance fluff reading. And leave her alone. If you buy it in the trilogy he would actually have to pick up and READ the right book to understand the message. And he hopefully won't. And she'll get some good reading in... and maybe get a clue too.

Thank you for the book suggestions! Amy actually reads a lot and really is the only thing she IS allowed to do. I will give her one for her upcoming birthday, which is actually a few days before Josh's parents visit.