Car buying advice and negotiating tips!

[Dee*Jay]

So I'm thinking of buying a cute little tooling around town car! Probably a 2011 (although 2010 or 2012 are possibilities) and I have found a couple that are in the price range I'm willing to pay... BUT I obviously want to pay less. Any thoughts on what a reasonable percentage offer of the asking price would be? I'm in a position to write a check, so how much farther does that get me (if at all)? And will the prices of the 2012s drop substantially any time soon now that the 2013s are coming in?

 

[kenny]

Don't test drive because that tells them you are early in the car-buying process and there is less chance you will buy today.
Consume several hours of the salesperson's time, after which you should demonstrate your willingness to walk out and leave your phone number to call you if they'll meet your price.

Don't feel the need to say something when there is an awkward silence.
When negotiating, time, silence, calm, emotionless patience is your friend.

Never show excitement over the car.
Tell em you're not even sure you want a new car this year, but may buy if the price is right.

Have you checked the Costco price?
Often dealers will just match that.

 

[Skippy123]

I use to car shop around. I had a nightmare shopping experience w/a dealership so I went to Consumer Reports, found out how much the car should go for and then put in the options I wanted, got about 6 emails from dealerships and they went rock bottom low and bought that way! If I kept going to the dealerships I would of paid more. I am for sure going to shop on the interest for cars from now on. I loved it!

 

[kenny]

You'll save thousands if you don't trade in a car.
Sell your old car privately.

Financing is another way they get you so come in with cash or your own attractive financing from your credit union.
Refuse all add ons like coatings, alarms, etc.

 

[sonnyjane]

Financing is another way they get you so come in with cash or your own attractive financing from your credit union.
Refuse all add ons like coatings, alarms, etc.

One thing about the alarms... Getting an alarm, if it's not expensive, can end up saving you money. I'm currently pricing cars and adding an alarm is about $300, but my car insurance premiums are cheaper if I have a car alarm, so it pays for itself.

 

[TravelingGal]

Used car buying is a little trickier, since used cars are not comparing apples to apples.

Paying cash usually means you pay more, because they won't make any money with financing.

You also can't really do what Skippy is saying, because that's what you would do for a NEW car. So the question is, you do want a used car?

signed,
daughter of a used car salesman, and car buying shark (haha)

 

[amc80]

When I bought my car, I emailed the internet departments of just about every dealership within 150 miles. You have to contact the internet departments before going to the dealership...because as soon as you talk to a sales person, you can't get the internet rate. I took the lowest offer to my local dealership, then I got them to match it (and throw in some all weather mats and a few other things). Super easy. Oh, and the internet rate is often the same as the Costco rate.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Kenny -- thank you for the great advice! A couple of things:
- I am going to keep my current SUV for winter driving because this is not the kind of thing that I would take out in the snow.
-The dealership(s) I'm visiting this weekend are purely for my own education (although I am not telling them that). Would it be OK though to say I've tested a couple of the SUV models but now I am considering keeping my SUV and just getting this as a second car, or would that be giving too much away in terms of me being new to the process?
- Ultimately I will likely end up buying the car over the internet becuase my three top choices are out of state. And honestly the differences between these three are so small that if you sat me in each one I probably couldn't tell you what's different.
- When I was just thinking of replacing my Lexus I planned to check Costco out, but does Costco deal with Porsches? I would be MORE THAN THRILLED to know what the REAL price was, and assuming it was acceptable, just walk in with my checkbook and drive out in a car.
- No financing (unless they offer me some crazy 0% interest rate, but on a used car I doubt they would do that).

Skippy -- did you buy new or used? I would be happy to trade emails rather than talk with people on the phone. And if we could get to the right number I'll wire the $ and they can load my new baby onto a truck!

 

[Dee*Jay]

OK, maybe I should give a few more details becuase that might impact the advice... I am looking at a 911. Let me know if that makes a difference in anyone's advice.

Sonny -- thank you for the info about the alarm. I plan on calling my insurance company this afternoon so I'll ask about that. How does an alarm get installed though if it doesn't come already in the car?

TGAL -- Daughter of a used car salesman and car buying shark!!! If you would like to just handle this for me I will be more than happy to send you a little something as a thank you!!! About your new/used question though; I am not opposed to new, but frankly the price of the new 911s makes me a little nauseaus... (Not that the price of the 2011s DOESN'T... [where's that puking emoticon when you need it?!?]])

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

 

[kenny]

When I negotiate on cars/houses I don't give any information about myself.

I am not nice.

I think of it as a play in which I am an actor playing the part of a character who is a good negotiator.
All that matters to that character is the lowest price.

Why not?
Dealers do the exact same thing, going for the highest price, all day long, 365 days of the year.
That's not nice.

When I drive it off the lot I go back to being myself.

 

[TravelingGal]

Dee Jay, you don't need to give them any info like that. None of their business.

I think test driving is fine. They will need your license (a copy of it before you get on the rode). Make sure you have it back in your possession before you drive, which will make it easier for you to walk away without waiting.

Also, for the car you want, it's a little different than dealing with a Toyota dealer which has tons of competing Toyota dealers as WELL as other competing car manufacturers. Usually if people want a Porshe, they want a Porshe. That cuts down somewhat on bargaining power. Even more so if there is a used one in the condition you want.

If you know what it on the lot, it may not hurt to say you are pricing 3 used ones in the area, and what is the price on X car on their lot. You can expect to bargain from there. With a new car, I never bargain down, but bargain UP from invoice (as a basic guideline). With a used car, you don't know what they paid for it, but you can get a good guideline on something like edmunds.

 

[Skippy123]

Kenny -- thank you for the great advice! A couple of things:
- I am going to keep my current SUV for winter driving because this is not the kind of thing that I would take out in the snow.
-The dealership(s) I'm visiting this weekend are purely for my own education (although I am not telling them that). Would it be OK though to say I've tested a couple of the SUV models but now I am considering keeping my SUV and just getting this as a second car, or would that be giving too much away in terms of me being new to the process?
- Ultimately I will likely end up buying the car over the internet becuase my three top choices are out of state. And honestly the differences between these three are so small that if you sat me in each one I probably couldn't tell you what's different.
- When I was just thinking of replacing my Lexus I planned to check Costco out, but does Costco deal with Porsches? I would be MORE THAN THRILLED to know what the REAL price was, and assuming it was acceptable, just walk in with my checkbook and drive out in a car.
- No financing (unless they offer me some crazy 0% interest rate, but on a used car I doubt they would do that).

Skippy -- did you buy new or used? I would be happy to trade emails rather than talk with people on the phone. And if we could get to the right number I'll wire the $ and they can load my new baby onto a truck!

I bought new; I would of maybe bought used but the price difference was only a few thousand so I rather get the options I wanted. I think there isn't a huge difference in paying cash (sometimes you can save a couple thousand doing that, but it is hard to tell); we were going to do that but ended up going of an awesome zero interest loan so at the end of life of the loan we end up paying $600 which I rather have our cash stay in investments. Yes, I thought the online thing was soooo worth it; we went to 2 dealership and they were full of Sh*t which pisses me off so then I put in my email address and got some offers back and went directly to the dealers finance manager and got the color I wanted. We ended up pay $4000 less than the negotiated in person price.

 

[Skippy123]

Dee Jay, you don't need to give them any info like that. None of their business.

I think test driving is fine. They will need your license (a copy of it before you get on the rode). Make sure you have it back in your possession before you drive, which will make it easier for you to walk away without waiting.

Also, for the car you want, it's a little different than dealing with a Toyota dealer which has tons of competing Toyota dealers as WELL as other competing car manufacturers. Usually if people want a Porshe, they want a Porshe. That cuts down somewhat on bargaining power. Even more so if there is a used one in the condition you want.

If you know what it on the lot, it may not hurt to say you are pricing 3 used ones in the area, and what is the price on X car on their lot. You can expect to bargain from there. With a new car, I never bargain down, but bargain UP from invoice (as a basic guideline). With a used car, you don't know what they paid for it, but you can get a good guideline on something like edmunds.

yes, those dealerships play so many games. Also since you want a Porshe are you willing to maybe pick it up in another state, might be worth it if you do the online thing. My neighbors did the online thing and picked up a Mercedes in CA where they have lots they need to sell and had fun driving it back

 

[webdiva]

In buying a used car, get all the service records, take the car to a specialized mechanic to be looked over, look on car related forums for info and advice, and negotiate the price.

Check out the following forums for porsche related sites. Sometimes people list cars on there and if someone is selling via a forum 1. their old posts are online and you can see if they've done anything dumb with the car 2. presumably they've gone to car meets and proven their a real person and not someone in Nigeria (careful buying cars online!) and 3. they've taken good care of the car. Taking it to a mechanic will tell you if it was. Research is your friend.

http://www.germanautoforums.com/forum/index.php
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/index.php#porsche-present
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/
http://www.renntech.org/forums/forum/15-classifieds-for-sale-trade-wanted/

Definitely go to a dealer and drive one, if you never have. Don't tell them anything - tell them you're still shopping around and don't know what you want. Tell them you have a meeting in 1 hr and have to leave. Do not BUY a car from them, they will HOUND you. Don't give them contact info.

If you don't want to do any of these things, find a reputable car broken in your area that will find you the car you want!

What other models are you looking at? Do you want something sporty, or do you really like Porsches? I can make recommendations, I used to race cars as a hobby.

 

[amc80]

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

Oh, probably not...unless you found more than one used car that had the same year, mileage, options, etc.

I would think it to be an advantage to you to tell them you are paying cash, but I could be wrong. It seems they would see you asan easy, quick sale. They know once you decide to buy that's it- no waiting for loan approval or dealing with loan terms or anything.

 

[Dee*Jay]

What other models are you looking at? Do you want something sporty, or do you really like Porsches? I can make recommendations, I used to race cars as a hobby.

Webdiva -- thank you SO MUCH! And yes, recommendation would be welcome! What I REALLy (REALLY really really really really...) want is a Fisker Karma, but I just can't bring myself to do that given all the (very) bad things I've been reading about them. And I would like not to spend more than $80K all in if possible, especially since this is really an around town toy. I like the Audi R8 and Jaguar F-Type, to give you more of an idea of what appeals to me. What do you think?!

 

[TravelingGal]

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

Oh, probably not...unless you found more than one used car that had the same year, mileage, options, etc.

I would think it to be an advantage to you to tell them you are paying cash, but I could be wrong. It seems they would see you asan easy, quick sale. They know once you decide to buy that's it- no waiting for loan approval or dealing with loan terms or anything.

No, normally it does not work in your favor to say you are paying cash. Remember that if you use their financing, they are making back end money, so they think they will get their pound of flesh SOMEHOW. Cash only signals the fact that they need to get what they can from you NOW.

http://autos.aol.com/article/car-dealer-shopping-tips/

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/08/what-you-need-to-know-about-paying-cash-for-a-new-vehicle/

http://www.beatthecarsalesman.com/paying-cash-for-your-new-car.html

http://www.autoadvice.com/aaguide/negotiate.html

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=1171403

 

[Dee*Jay]

Dee Jay, you don't need to give them any info like that. None of their business.

I think test driving is fine. They will need your license (a copy of it before you get on the rode). Make sure you have it back in your possession before you drive, which will make it easier for you to walk away without waiting.

Also, for the car you want, it's a little different than dealing with a Toyota dealer which has tons of competing Toyota dealers as WELL as other competing car manufacturers. Usually if people want a Porshe, they want a Porshe. That cuts down somewhat on bargaining power. Even more so if there is a used one in the condition you want.

If you know what it on the lot, it may not hurt to say you are pricing 3 used ones in the area, and what is the price on X car on their lot. You can expect to bargain from there. With a new car, I never bargain down, but bargain UP from invoice (as a basic guideline). With a used car, you don't know what they paid for it, but you can get a good guideline on something like edmunds.

yes, those dealerships play so many games. Also since you want a Porshe are you willing to maybe pick it up in another state, might be worth it if you do the online thing. My neighbors did the online thing and picked up a Mercedes in CA where they have lots they need to sell and had fun driving it back

The danger there Skip is that I might not COME back!

 

[Dee*Jay]

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

Oh, probably not...unless you found more than one used car that had the same year, mileage, options, etc.

I would think it to be an advantage to you to tell them you are paying cash, but I could be wrong. It seems they would see you asan easy, quick sale. They know once you decide to buy that's it- no waiting for loan approval or dealing with loan terms or anything.

My plan is to walk around with my checkbook nonchalantly sticking out of my back pocket...

 

[amc80]

No, normally it does not work in your favor to say you are paying cash. Remember that if you use their financing, they are making back end money, so they think they will get their pound of flesh SOMEHOW. Cash only signals the fact that they need to get what they can from you NOW.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Dee*Jay]

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

Oh, probably not...unless you found more than one used car that had the same year, mileage, options, etc.

I would think it to be an advantage to you to tell them you are paying cash, but I could be wrong. It seems they would see you asan easy, quick sale. They know once you decide to buy that's it- no waiting for loan approval or dealing with loan terms or anything.

No, normally it does not work in your favor to say you are paying cash. Remember that if you use their financing, they are making back end money, so they think they will get their pound of flesh SOMEHOW. Cash only signals the fact that they need to get what they can from you NOW.

http://autos.aol.com/article/car-dealer-shopping-tips/

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/08/what-you-need-to-know-about-paying-cash-for-a-new-vehicle/

http://www.beatthecarsalesman.com/paying-cash-for-your-new-car.html

http://www.autoadvice.com/aaguide/negotiate.html

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=1171403

Wow! I just read through these links. OK; no visible checkbook for me!

 

[iLander]

OK, maybe I should give a few more details becuase that might impact the advice... I am looking at a 911. Let me know if that makes a difference in anyone's advice.

Sonny -- thank you for the info about the alarm. I plan on calling my insurance company this afternoon so I'll ask about that. How does an alarm get installed though if it doesn't come already in the car?

TGAL -- Daughter of a used car salesman and car buying shark!!! If you would like to just handle this for me I will be more than happy to send you a little something as a thank you!!! About your new/used question though; I am not opposed to new, but frankly the price of the new 911s makes me a little nauseaus... (Not that the price of the 2011s DOESN'T... [where's that puking emoticon when you need it?!?]])

amc - does that apply to used cars too? I'm happy to NEVER talk to ANY car salesperson EVER! What do you say? "I'm interested in X car, what's your best offer?"

ETA: So I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT tell them I am paying cash?

Ooooooh, I love 911's! We currently have one and it's our 4th Porsche.

What year and model are you looking at? This makes a HUGE difference in the reliability of 911's. Based on past experience, I wouldn't even consider one older than a 2002, regardless of miles. Are you familiar with the cost to repair a Porsche or is that something you can do yourself? As far as getting a good price, it's miles that matter, less so the year. It's easy to find them in the $30-40K range, with about 30K miles. You might want to check out some of the Porsche forums for model-specific feedback.

Most newer Porsches have an immobilizer and an alarm as standard.

Are you going with a stick or an automatic? The new PDK automatic trans is fabulous . . .

 

[JewelFreak]

Check the Kelley Blue Book for pricing -- they give you a ballpark for various years & conditions; it's a place to start. Hemmings is another one.

My approach is a little different from Kenny's -- I'm not not-nice; negotiations imo can be pleasant -- not chummy, but not adversarial; if they get that way, I walk out. Important to be very firm, however, on what you want & not get pushed. Say so if you feel they're nudging you in a direction you don't want to go.

Biggest thing is not to hesitate to walk out. You can still be pleasant, calm, shake the guy's (girl's) hand & skedaddle. Chances are good you'll hear from them.

Good luck & have fun!

--- Laurie

 

[TravelingGal]

No, normally it does not work in your favor to say you are paying cash. Remember that if you use their financing, they are making back end money, so they think they will get their pound of flesh SOMEHOW. Cash only signals the fact that they need to get what they can from you NOW.

Yeah, that makes sense.

btw, the only way I might think of using this is if I went in to a dealer late in the evening on the last night of their quarter (or last week in their fiscal year) and hoped that they weren't making their numbers and needed the sale. And that's only if I had done some serious homework on the car (and had test driven it beforehand) and the value on the used car market. I'd say I if they willing to sell me the car for X, I will pay cash right now and be done with it. And if they didn't, I'd walk. Oh, and I'd make the number really lower than the amount I wanted to pay, but I'd stand up and walk out if they refused it at first.

Timing of when you buy helps too.

 

[Dee*Jay]

iLander -- I'm so glad to have you as a resource!

I'm looking (probably) at a 2011, but maybe a 2010 (or a 2009 if I got a PHENOMENAL deal, but I don't want to go ANY further back than that). Of course I'll take a great deal on a 2012 too! I'm looking at less than 20,000 miles, and I'm hoping for less than 10,000. That's an interesting point about miles mattering more than year -- maybe I should just look at miles and put year as a secondary factor? (Now I'm confusing myself, LOL!)

Maintenance and repairs... yes, I'm prepaired to bend over and deal with all that. It won't make me happy, but I get it.

I would LOVE a stick, but I live in a city environment so driving it daily (or when the weather permits) might make me suidicidal. Honestly though, the deal I get will pretty much dictate whether I go stick or automatic. For the right $$$ I'm flexible.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Laurie - I did look at Kelly but I'll check out Hemmings too. Thank you for that!

TGal - Last time I bought a car (the Lexus I have now) I went out on Dec. 31. I didn't mean to do it that way, but it was literally the ONLY day I could see having free for the next many months (ah; the joys of being a busy real estate agent!) and visited Januar, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo and Lexus. They were all pretty eager to have a chat. Not that they aren't ALWAYS eager, but on Dec. 31 I practically needed a body guard!

 

[iLander]

iLander -- I'm so glad to have you as a resource!

I'm looking (probably) at a 2011, but maybe a 2010 (or a 2009 if I got a PHENOMENAL deal, but I don't want to go ANY further back than that). Of course I'll take a great deal on a 2012 too! I'm looking at less than 20,000 miles, and I'm hoping for less than 10,000. That's an interesting point about miles mattering more than year -- maybe I should just look at miles and put year as a secondary factor? (Now I'm confusing myself, LOL!)

Maintenance and repairs... yes, I'm prepaired to bend over and deal with all that. It won't make me happy, but I get it.

I would LOVE a stick, but I live in a city environment so driving it daily (or when the weather permits) might make me suidicidal. Honestly though, the deal I get will pretty much dictate whether I go stick or automatic. For the right $$$ I'm flexible.

Have you driven a stick 911? They are a bit firm, and after an hour or so, it makes your leg really tired. DH loves his, but I don't have the leg strength for it. If it were me, I'd go for a few more miles on the car and get the PDK trans. It's pretty cool, because you can shift manually if you want, or just let the automatic trans do the work. The PDK is much smoother than the old tiptronic. With a PDK you can shift with steering wheel paddles (ick!) or use the stick in manual mode.

Have you considered a Boxster? I have a new baby , a 2009 Boxster, which I was JUST going to start a thread about, but I need more pics. I like it for the convertible roof, the mid-engine handling (911's can swing around in slick conditions) and the ease of the PDK. The Boxster has a more precise ride than a 911, it's hard to explain the feeling. But it is glorious, and a Boxster S is very close to a 911 in terms of horsepower, torque, etc. Plus the Boxster has 2 trunks. But the 911 does have a sorta back seat, which the Boxster doesn't.

Porsches as a group are a much easier car to drive than they used to be. But they are also less of a driver's car, with more stability controls, computer assists, less road feel, and --the most offensive-- steering assist! Some consider them to be not as pure, some just like them because they're more luxurious. It's a continuous debate on the Porsche forums.

Which 911 model are you considering? A turbo will blow your eyeballs right out of your head.

Have you seen the Panamera? Ditch the SUV and get one of those beauties, you can use it in winter too. They are gloriously luxurious and room for 4. Caymans are just bleah!

 

[chemgirl]

The only real advice I have is to avoid choosing a model or option package that is in high demand. The dealership is less likely to negotiate on something they know they'll sell anyway. I seem to have a knack for picking cars that are in high demand and limited quantity. "Um miss, we get 12 of these in stock per year and sell out in the first month. If you won't pay, somebody else will."

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I have not read all the entries but you can get 4 wheel or all wheel drive in the brand you desire, therefore I would sell your SUV and buy some winter tires and away you go.

Panamera??

cheers--Sharon

 

[webdiva]

Looking in your price range at used sports cars in that flavor - look for Aston Martin V8 Vantage (gorgeous!).

This suggestion is not as "wow'" as the other cars you listed... but having driven porsches, lotuses, corvettes, etc - I still love my sports car that I sold - the Honda S2000. Beautiful leather interior, handles like a go cart with the sophistication of a much more expensive car. No one ever knew what it was, I could have removed the Honda badges and fooled them. It's a fun tool around town car until you you hit a certain RPM and it turns into a monster sports car. Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear loves it.They stopped making them in 2010 - but you can probably find a nice certified preowned.