Tiffany - the never-ending debate

[Fred3456]

As many have before, I am now contemplating whether or not to go Tiffany or go through the pains of a full out diamond search. I''m looking at the Lucida design, and will spend around 8000 for a 75 point (do not want to go bigger regardless of price), F VS1 (this is all new for me). The bottom line is, I know nothing about diamonds (beyond what I''ve learned on the web and talking to some dealers) and my girlfriend doesn''t either. Do you think the average person not in the diamond business (ie. her family/friends) would be more impressed with the Tiffany name/design or with an even higher quality diamond (same size)? Would they even be able to tell the difference?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/29/2003 2:38:31 PM Sly3333 wrote:

Would they even be able to tell the difference?
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Probably not. If you read the archives, you would know my position. Save yourself a bunch of money & don't get the blue box.

Why no more than .75? I'm curious.

 

[mike04456]

This may sound cynical, but it's been my experience that with certain people, you could put a chunk of bort (industrial diamond) in a Tiffany setting and they will still reflexively ooh and ahh over it, because "it's a Tiffany."

Tiffany has good diamonds, but when you're talking about squares, appearance is all over the map. There are better looking cuts than the Lucida, but unfortunately, most of them are branded cuts (e.g., HOF Dream) that are just as if not more expensive.

If you want to impress people with the name, don't stop with Tiffany. Cartier, Harry Winston, Mouwad, and Bulgari, for example, have even more cache (and are consequently more expensive).

Most people not in the trade really don't know anything about diamonds and tend to judge them soley by size anyway.

 

[Fred3456]

1 - .75 because petite girl who doesn't wear jewelry (clearly told me to keep diamond small) I'll probably go .75 - .8

2 - With respect to being able to tell the difference between a high quality tiffany and higher quality non-tiffany (but same price), wouldn't that suggest getting the Tiffany, something a novice would recognize and be impressed with?

 

[shurikt]

I can only comment from my experience, so take this for what it's worth:

My personality is such that I absolutely despise getting taken advantage of. Maybe it has something to do with my childhood, but at any rate, it eats away at me like acid. So before I dropped $8k, I decided to do as much research as possible, knowing full well that without it I would be at a significant disadvantage when it came to dealing with diamond dealers.

What I discovered was that most dealers out there are fairly honest and not actively trying to deceive consumers, including Tiffany. What it comes down to is that if you look around enough, you get pretty much what you pay for.

At Tiffany, you are not only paying for the diamond, but also the Tiffany brand, the blue box, the fancy store, lunch meetings with Paloma Picasso and vague memories of Audrey Hepburn. All these things add a little premium to the price of the ring.

So for me, I was less interested in all that than I was in maximizing the quality of the diamond and setting for my money. So I paid a little premium for an incredibly geeky guy to take zillions of detailed pictures of it and run it through a barrage of tests I only barely understand.

As a result, instead of my in-laws and fiancee's friends being impressed that it came from a famous store (which they would), they look at it and say what a beautiful ring it is. That makes me happy because I know the actual quality of the diamond, how much painstaking time it took me to find it and that I didn't get taken advantage of.

So it comes down to your own personal priorities:
Is price most important?
Is brand most important?
Is quality most important? If so, how do you go about measuring quality? (Much of the Pricescope discussion is centered around this very question.)

Oh, and thanks for opening that can of worms again...

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/29/2003 2:38:31 PM Sly3333 wrote:
Do you think the average person not in the diamond business (ie. her family/friends) would be more impressed with the Tiffany name/design or with an even higher quality diamond (same size)? Would they even be able to tell the difference?
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I think they'd be impressed with a knock-out, sparkly diamond no matter where it comes from. Could they tell the difference....as in between a Tiff and a high quality non-Tiff? Not unless you tell them.

Could they tell the diff between a high quality and the run of the mill that most people get at the mall? Absolutely! I'll never forget the first time I saw someone wearing an excellently cut diamond. This thing sparkled like NOTHING I'd every seen before. The memory of that has stayed with me for years....I can still tell you where I was when I saw it.

High quality doesn't mean it has to be a D, IF, and it doesn't mean it has to be a .5 on the HCA, either. A reasonably well cut diamond in the SI-1, G/H (maybe even I) range would absolutely be high quality AND reasonably priced.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[Beansy]

If she's into the Lucidia cut from Tiffany's, and you want some similar alternatives (NOT DISSING TIFFANY'S HERE, GUYS) check out these...

Flanders
Reagent
Lucere


They each have their own unique qualities, but are similar to
the square with cut corners look. Happy hunting!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/29/2003 2:54:22 PM Sly3333 wrote:

1 - .75 because petite girl who doesn't wear jewelry (clearly told me to keep diamond small) I'll probably go .75 - .8

2 - With respect to being able to tell the difference between a high quality tiffany and higher quality non-tiffany (but same price), wouldn't that suggest getting the Tiffany, something a novice would recognize and be impressed with?
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Define what she meant by "small".

Regarding the second, the novice would have to ask the question. "Did that come from Tiffany?" I think it would be rather uncomfortable for someone to say "Look at my ring. It came from TIffany's". 1. not sure I would believe them. 2. Sounds too braggy to me (especially coming from someone who isn't into jewelry & wants something small)

If you really want my opinion, you don't have to spend all your budget. If a .75 c stone is what she wants, go w/ a G/VS2 stone, spend the extra on a house, honeymoon or a special setting or diamond wedding band.

Good luck

 

[NewYorker]

I totally agree with fire&ice. No one will ask if it's Tiffany and not many will care either. It just has to look great!

I say, spend the extra money on diamond studs of 1/2 carat each. Surprise her with them when you get back from the honeymoon. I know that would have knocked my sox off! (didn't happen though

)
See, after the honeymoon reality sets in again and the bills come and the sink gets stopped up and the guy who comes to fix it is 2 hours late and ruins your floors while he's there....
get the picture? Nothing like beautiful diamond studs to help the transition into reality.

 

[Mara]

Hmmm average person being impressed? Definitely by LOOK. What it looks like. Is it sparkly or is it dull. I don't know one girl who ever told me that her ring was from Tiffany (unless she was a best friend or something and I knew details). But if I admire a ring or if someone admires mine, I don't ask nor do they ask if it's from Tiffany. That's just not even a question that comes to my mind..and I guess not to theirs?

You have $8k and want a decent sized stone, you can easily get an F (still 'colorless' but not a D so it's less markup) VS stone in that size for around $4-5k depending on your cut. Fancy cut stones are cheaper for the most part..but if you pay for a branded like the Regent or Lucere you will pay markup anyway. Or you can go G color and still get a white look but for less $$. I love my G stone.

If you are looking for a branded stone and like the squared rounded shape, check out the HOF Dream. Someone just posted about it yesterday and they have pictures of it in their thread, its a beautiful stone. If I absolutely HAD to buy a branded rounded square, I would get one of those. Something like a G VS .75c HOF Dream stone would be around $7k.

Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/29/2003 4:15:26 PM NewYorker wrote:
I say, spend the extra money on diamond studs of 1/2 carat each. Surprise her with them when you get back from the honeymoon. I know that would have knocked my sox off
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Great idea, NY, but didn't he say she isn't into jewelry?

Maybe he could put the money into something she'd appreciate more (one of the other girls here cracked me up recently....she was saying the money she saved was going into a new TV! That's creative thinking!)

I'm sure most of us would find this hard to believe (and horrifying as well!), but not everyone's crazy about jewelry. My friend didn't want "any" diamond...she's not a jewelry person.....ended up settling with a platinum band with a small diamond chip in it. It sits totally flush in the ring, and matches her plain platinum wedding band. She spent the money they saved on a high-end camera outfit (she's a photog junkie!)

Totally not what I'm into, but that's why we celebrate each other's differences!

 

[Rank Amateur]

Would they even be able to tell the difference?

Do it for yourself (or your sweetie) not for other people. Hell, "they" probably couldn't tell if it's a CZ!

Only my wife and I know that the earrings I bought her are Tiffany. I also know I paid waaaay too much in terms of $$/ct, but I don't care.

 

[NewYorker]

Oops, forgot she wasn't into jewelry. Okay, then whatever she's into - buy that.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/29/2003 4:15:26 PM NewYorker wrote:

See, after the honeymoon reality sets in again and the bills come and the sink gets stopped up and the guy who comes to fix it is 2 hours late and ruins your floors while he's there....
get the picture? Nothing like beautiful diamond studs to help the transition into reality.
----------------

Yes, how true! You're coming off of being the center of attention w/ dream wedding & honeymoon bliss. The stark turn around is a tough transition. A nice gift will make her still feel like a princess.

Hey, I wouldn't discount the diamond studs. Simple & Classy. I have a friend whose only jewelry is that & her wedding band.

 

[aljdewey]

Not discounting the studs at all.......just presenting a different perspective if she's truly not into jewelry as he said.

No offense meant.

(Perhaps this should be my standard disclaimer.)

 

[Mara]

You're such an offensive person Al.

(Esp when you don't comment on my pictures!!!)

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/29/2003 4:47:53 PM Mara wrote:
(Esp when you don't comment on my pictures!!!)

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Mara.....girl, where have you been???? I replied to that last night....send you back a PM saying that the dress was stunning but that I couldn't see the invites.....file wouldn't open.

Didn't you get my reply?

 

[hoorray]

I love this topic.....

The people who know and are into Tiffany's care whether the ring is from there or not, and those who aren't, don't care and would never ask. If your gf comes from a communitiy who cares, (some people are raised learning that Tiffany's is "special"), her immediate family and those close to her would know where it came from, and that might count for something to her. If that's not her or her family's thing, it's paying a premium that most likely no one would ever appreciate -- especially her if that's not her thing. That said -- if it's important to you, or if it's the way you prefer to go for whatever reason, that counts too. Do what's important to you guys -- no one else matters here.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/29/2003 4:53:59 PM hoorray wrote:

If your gf comes from a communitiy who cares, (some people are raised learning that Tiffany's is "special"), her immediate family and those close to her would know where it came from, and that might count for something to her.

Do what's important to you guys -- no one else matters here. ----------------
I agree, although I'd point you back to his question being "would average people who aren't in the diamond business know?" I think that people who frequent here aren't representative because we aren't "average" people.....we're completely psycho into jewelry.

I think that people who know jewelry like F&I might see the difference. I think that the girl from a few months ago who could "spot a Tiffany setting a mile away" might see the difference. I think the guy who bought a Tiffany ring several months ago because he couldn't find a suitable imitation elsewhere could possibly tell the difference.

But, I personally don't think the average Joe on the street would know the difference.

P.S. Is there really a whole community where people are bred to distinguish Tiffany's?

WOW....you learn something new every day! That sounds kind of like an Amish colony....only Tiffany's.

P.S.S. Do they adopt? (seeing blue boxes in my future)


EDITED TO ADD: Whoops.....forgot the disclaimer.....

No offense intended.

 

[Mara]

Wow adoption into the Tiffany way of life. That sounds REALLY GREAT. Please add my name to the waiting list. Does my Mercedes come in a blue box too?

Al--I didn't see a PM at all..! I guess I should take down the dart board with your picture on it--fwd me the PM via email yah?

 

[hoorray]

" But, I personally don't think the average Joe on the street would know the difference.

P.S. Is there really a whole community where people are bred to distinguish Tiffany's? WOW....you learn something new every day! That sounds kind of like an Amish colony....only Tiffany's.

P.S.S. Do they adopt? (seeing blue boxes in my future)"


That's what I have concluded....That blue box is really important to some people for all the reasons that brand marketing people invest the big bucks. We all know that the quality is not unique, it's just the perception that's been developed over many years. I envision the NY shopping trips to 5th avenue as a child being the start of the "breeding" .

And, the topic obviously hits a nerve for lots of people, so to some, it has more meaning than to others. I, personally was raised to know that small boxes brought big surprises! However, there was never a color associated with the box. (I grew up in the West, with no 5th ave shopping trips).

 

[RoughRider]

Hi Sly,
My (female) coworker got engaged a few years back, and I can still remember how HAPPY she was that her fiance "at least knew enough to go to Tiffany" (or something like that). He wasn't into the big, romantic gestures during their courtship, and this Tiffany ring blew her socks off.

As many here have already said, T&Co. diamonds are very sparkly, and for the average person, they represent "the best!" (Note: I think you need some level of diamond sophistication to realize that Mouwad and Bulgari et al are "higher" than T&Co

)

You mention "the pain" of a full out diamond search. If you don't want to spend a lot of time reading, learning about and searching for diamonds - I think T&Co. is a very respectable option for you. She will get the "ooh" factor from all her family and friends, and you won't have to spend a lot of time in the process (your time is worth something, after all).

One last thing, though. Did you guys go shopping together or will the ring be a "surprise?" Because if you read through a lot of the old posts, "small" is very subjective! Also, the Tiffany Lucida "looks" smaller than a Tiffany RB of the same carat wt. (my g/f liked the 1.5 ct Lucida better than a 1.5 RB, but the 1.0 RB better than the 1.0 Lucida).

Good luck!

 

[Fred3456]

While we have glanced at jewelers in passing and pointed out ones we liked, we have never really broken down the size in ct. I only know she doesn't want an awkwardly large eye catcher diamond (thank God), but wants something that just seems to fit into an everyday look. Not a ton of clarity, but I don't have a lot to work with myself. I read that as less than 1 ct., but again, am open to suggestions.

And to confirm, this is coming from the type of person who has never heard of Mouwad and Bulgar, so with respect to brand name recognition, Tiffany is about as good as it gets (as far as I was concerned about 3 hours ago).

 

[Mara]

I think for me it boils down to one thing...the look.

I would gladly put up my non-ideal round brilliant next to a Tiffany RB anyday. Guess what? I bet it would look better. Plus my setting is more unique and eye-catching than a Tiffany. My girlfriend got engaged late last year and I bet her ring was from Tiff...thats what she always said she wanted..and she used to go 'visit' her ring at the store like once a month (yes she was psychotic). But I didn't ask if it was Tiffany and I bet she just got the typical Tiffany RB in the Tiffany 6 prong setting. Place her ring against mine? I am sure mine would be better looking.

Not to be egotistical or anything....that's not what I'm saying. The point is that it comes down to compliments and eye-catching for me. Get the diamond to look good. A name inscribed inside? No one knows that and unless you are gauche enough to tell them...chances are they won't ever figure it out.

What about Cartier? Their rings are about the same price. I'd check it out. Cartier seems to carry more clout IMO than Tiffany in terms of perceived quality.

'Small' is such a variable term. Personally I think 1c stones are everyday stones--I like the larger stones. Not everyone agrees. But if I was getting the run of the mill diamond for someone who didn't really know much, or wear much jewelry I'd do the basic ~1c stone with good color, good clarity in the basic 4 or 6 prong setting, and it'd be like 100000000 of the other engagement rings out there. What about being unique? Does she like colored stones? What about something like a sapphire or a ruby? To me Tiffany is mainstream. For those with lots of credit cards that is.

 

[RoughRider]

I know girls who will tell their b/f, "flowers are such a waste of money since they will die in a few days anyway. I don't expect flowers for my birthday ..."
But when we talk about our weekends, and I mention I sent flowers to my g/f at her office for whatever occasion, the same girl will say, "my boyfriend never gives me flowers."
So I'll ask her, "I thought you told him not to get you flowers."
And she says, "well, not all the time, but once in a while would be nice ..."

Do you know what size ring your g/f is? That will make "some" difference in what is big/small. A 1 ct. is not awkwardly large - not that there's anything wrong with a 0.75! If any of her friends recently got engaged, you should ask her about their rings. Where did they get it? Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll say, "Tiffany - can you believe it? I'd rather have a ring, pair of stud earrings and a television!" hee hee.

Sometimes if you get her talking about other peoples' rings, she won't even realize that you're pumping her for information on her likes and dislikes ...

 

[hoorray]

Good point on the flowers.

In that same line of thinking, I know at least 2 girlfriends (one who is about to be my siter-in-law) who said "I don't care about jewelery -- I just want a simple band", and they thought they meant it. However, when the big day came, and the bf surprised them with beautiful, tasteful -- not gaudy -- diamond rings, they were SOOOOOO excited and happy. All they could say is "isn't it beautiful?!!!, and I didn't even want one!!!"

I don't know what the right size for your girl is, but some investigation is probably worth the effort

.

 

[NewYorker]

One more thing - unless she's REALLY not into jewelry - like she's an Outward Bound instructor or something - don't necessarily believe her.
I know that sounds bad. But I told my husband one year not to get me a b-day gift because we had been spending lots of money that year and guess what - he listened! It really sucked!
She may not care now what size it is because she'll just be happy to be engaged to you, the love of her life, but down the line she may feel different.

Of course, she could be like my friend who prefers to wear her ring every day and really does prefer small stones and won't wear anything over 1/2 carat no matter what. Her diamond is less than 1/4 carat and she loves it and really wouldn't want it any bigger. Weird but true.

 

[Mara]

Yes there are those odd creatures who don't like jewelry...or rings. One of my best friends has an e-ring that has to be something like 1/4 of a carat. She adores it.

 

[RoughRider]

Sly,
If you haven't already done so, you should go in to Tiffany without your g/f and spend some time looking at their diamonds. They are really friendly and will spend a lot of time with you.

Even if you don't end up buying there, you can see first hand a 0.75, 0.85, 1.0 - all the way up to a 7.0 (although you would have to go into the private viewing room to try that one on!

). You can also look at colors side by side (you should look at Gs and Hs before ruling them out) and compare all the shapes. This won't take too long - maybe an hour or so. If you ask they will provide you with a 10x loupe to use.
I learned a lot about what I like (and what differences I can see with my eyes) from looking at T&Co - although I am not planning on buying my e-ring there.
Good luck!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/29/2003 4:43:43 PM aljdewey wrote:

Not discounting the studs at all.......just presenting a different perspective if she's truly not into jewelry as he said.

No offense meant.

(Perhaps this should be my standard disclaimer.)
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nawww....the ducks enough.