Ruby red and durable?

[lyra]

I''ve never ventured into CS before, so this is a bit intimidating.

Recently I tried on a ruby ring and fell in love with the colour and shape (emerald step-cut or similar). It was a very poor example of a ruby, I suspect it was heat treated to the point of being melted down and recut. LOL. Anyway, I have wanted a ruby ring for a very long time. I love the colour on me. I realize I can''t afford a nice ruby of any size at all though.

So, as I''m just beginning this project, what are some alternatives to ruby that have very similar colour and are durable enough for an everyday ring? I''m not opposed to red/purple as an alternative. I will try to see what catches my fancy, then set the budget. I am ultimately hoping for a rectangular cut, as that looked nice on me, but I''m open on that too. Mostly I just want to know what to research further.

 

[chrono]

Listed in order of durablity and price:

Pink sapphire that missed the mark of being called a ruby
Red spinel or if you don't mind some pink/purple, a Mahenge spinel
Rubellite (but needs some gentle care)
Garnet (many varieties go into the reddish range of colour)
Red zircon (might be too soft for everyday wear).

 

[lyra]

Thanks Chrono. BTW, what is the stone in your avatar? It has me drooling....

 

[chrono]

That's my new Mahenge spinel from Swala. It's currently being custom set by Whiteflash and should be ready next week.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mahenge-10k-ps-gift.128148/

 

[ma re]

Can you describe in some more detail (or even better, find some photo of a comparable stone to show) what that ruby looked like? If it was quite translucent and had that "glowy", fogy appearance, then I''d advise you to stick to rubelites, as you''ll get a stone that looks most like that, without breaking the bank. If however, it was a clear, transparent, crystaline stone that sparkled, it''s probably best to stick to garnets or heated pink sapphires (unheated ones cost a lot). Are you OK with treatments or want something completely natural in all aspects (do you know anything about treatments btw)?

 

[LD]

How do you feel about treatments? If you're ok with them then you probably can get a ruby within your budget. It will be heated, probably BE treated and may even be glass/lead filled BUT some of them look sensational!

On this part of the forum, most of us are collectors and so for that reason we tend (mostly) to steer away from this but most mortal normal people wouldn't know a treated ruby if it fell on their head so ..............

EDIT: If you don't like the idea of heavy treatments but heating is ok (and for most of us we accept heating) then look here: http://www.ajsgems.com/burma-ruby-gemstone-ruby-2046340429.html

 

[lyra]

Date: 12/28/2009 1:35:23 PM
Author: ma re
Can you describe in some more detail (or even better, find some photo of a comparable stone to show) what that ruby looked like? If it was quite translucent and had that 'glowy', fogy appearance, then I'd advise you to stick to rubelites, as you'll get a stone that looks most like that, without breaking the bank. If however, it was a clear, transparent, crystaline stone that sparkled, it's probably best to stick to garnets or heated pink sapphires (unheated ones cost a lot). Are you OK with treatments or want something completely natural in all aspects (do you know anything about treatments btw)?

The stone I saw was blood red and glowed, but I'm not stuck on that particular colour. I really love the colour and look of Chrono's mahenge for example, which is a totally different colour, but to me is beautiful. I had considered garnet, but don't know how durable they are. I was also under the impression that spinel was brittle. In general, the pink sapphires I've looked at (think natural sapphire company) seem too pink to my eye. I like something redder but purplish undertone is okay. I would accept treatments that don't affect the durability of the stone. Mainly I'd want to create a ring that I could wear everyday. I'm not hard on my rings, but I would need to know about acceptable cleaning methods also I guess. Also, my timeline is 3 years from start to finish, so finding a stone can take some time. I guess this is all pretty vague, I'm sorry. I would like clear, transparent and sparkly, but inclusions would be okay if that will bring the price down and still yield a beautiful stone when set. Example: Celletani's mahenge.

 

[chrono]

Spinels are not brittle at all. In fact, they hold up quite well to everyday wear, have no known treatment currently and is only one rung down from sapphires/ruby in terms of MOH hardness.

 

[ma re]

If you''d like to wear it daily, then I''d only recommend spinel. Other red stones are not as durable and you''d need to take much more care of them all the time (except those super expensive ones like natural red topaz or fine alexandrites). But do know that nice red spinels are not exactly affordable. You''re right that a few inclusions can bring the price down (sometimes quite a bit), and it''s good that you''re OK with that as it gives you more options.

 

[LD]

Date: 12/28/2009 2:13:35 PM
Author: ma re
If you''d like to wear it daily, then I''d only recommend spinel. Other red stones are not as durable and you''d need to take much more care of them all the time (except those super expensive ones like natural red topaz or fine alexandrites). But do know that nice red spinels are not exactly affordable. You''re right that a few inclusions can bring the price down (sometimes quite a bit), and it''s good that you''re OK with that as it gives you more options.

Mr ma re - even the finest of Alexandrites would never be called red. There''s only one that''s ever been photographed that looked red and since I don''t believe many people have seen this in person then I''d reserve judgement. Most Alex in their incandescent state take on a purple/pink tone with some red but the predominant colour is very rarely red.

 

[LD]

Don't know your budget but how about this http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-1.38-carats.html-2 It would probably fit in a ready made 8 x 6 setting so no need to go custom unless you wanted to.

Cheaper and a roval! http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-1.79-carats.html-0

Very pretty and cheap but maybe too small? http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-0.59-carats.html or http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-0.68-carats.html-1

 

[lyra]

LD, the first spinel makes my heart sing.

Wow.

Thanks for the advice. I had thought maybe I should change my strategy and gently dip my feet in the waters of CS, say buy a garnet and see how that went, and then go from there. But the spinels are so alluring. I may still do that, say have an under $1000 budget, find a stone the right shape and colour and see how it goes. Maybe do a LOGR setting?

 

[LD]

Date: 12/28/2009 2:37:07 PM
Author: lyra
LD, the first spinel makes my heart sing.

Wow.

Thanks for the advice. I had thought maybe I should change my strategy and gently dip my feet in the waters of CS, say buy a garnet and see how that went, and then go from there. But the spinels are so alluring. I may still do that, say have an under $1000 budget, find a stone the right shape and colour and see how it goes. Maybe do a LOGR setting?

$1000 budget for everything or just the stone?

 

[lyra]

Date: 12/28/2009 2:46:25 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 12/28/2009 2:37:07 PM
Author: lyra
LD, the first spinel makes my heart sing.

Wow.

Thanks for the advice. I had thought maybe I should change my strategy and gently dip my feet in the waters of CS, say buy a garnet and see how that went, and then go from there. But the spinels are so alluring. I may still do that, say have an under $1000 budget, find a stone the right shape and colour and see how it goes. Maybe do a LOGR setting?

$1000 budget for everything or just the stone?

I''m thinking $1000 for everything, and the timeline shortened to 5 months for my birthday. Obviously I could reset at a later date too.

I will still do the bigger project, but I need to put more thought into that. For now I''m kind of in the mode of "I want a red CS right now!". I realize I''m going to have to make compromises, and I''m willing to do that. I love the $10K+ stones, but in this case I need to set my sights much lower and know that I will only get what I''m willing to pay for. If that makes sense.

One thing I''m totally unclear on is the cut. I don''t know if I should be overly concerned about that at this budget point or what. I think I would be open to all cuts for this first project, with preference to the rectangular shape if possible. I have seen some CS with odd looking roundish shapes that look like they''d be difficult to set. (boy, that sounds really newbish doesn''t it?)

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 12/28/2009 12:08:28 PM
Author: Chrono
Listed in order of durablity and price:

Pink sapphire that missed the mark of being called a ruby
Red spinel or if you don''t mind some pink/purple, a Mahenge spinel
Rubellite (but needs some gentle care)
Garnet (many varieties go into the reddish range of colour)
Red zircon (might be too soft for everyday wear).

the last are not appropriate for every day wear imo. most garnets are only 7-7.5 on the moh scale. a complete bezel would help, of course.

mz

 

[LD]

Well you obviously have good taste and want a very good stone so your budget is a little limiting. Having said that, nothing''s impossible. If you''re wanting a cut that "sparkles" I''d stay away from emerald cuts because they flash rather than sparkle and also finding a well cut one, without a window, in a particular gemstone in a particular price range is a little more challenging. Think about cushions if you like a squareish shape as that will open up possibilities. Most LOGR''s are around $300-500 and might need diamonds upgrading so you''re really looking for a gemstone of around $500ish.

Again, you''ll need to be practical about what size you''re going to get for that. Red spinels are sought after and as such command a higher price than a pinky red one (not Mahenge).

Imagine this one in an LOGR Legacyesque setting - it will have a spread of around 7mm once on your finger - would that work?
http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-0.59-carats.html

Much more pink but larger and within budget http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-1.14-carats.html-2

This is a Mahenge but the price reflects its inclusions. If inclusions will bug you then discount this one http://www.ajsgems.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-1.49-carats.html

 

[lyra]

Thank you so much again LD. I''m beginning to get a feel for this. So ultimately I''m looking at under 2cts, hopefully cushion shape. The stones you have shown have been from a particular vendor, so I should keep an eye out there, as it seems I''m likely to find something there within my budget. Maybe smaller would work, I''m not sure yet. I *am* torn between wanting to go much smaller but with a nicer stone, or a bit bigger (1.49ct) with some compromises. I think this is even harder than looking for diamonds, in fact, I know it is!

I haven''t really looked at settings yet. Good to know about LOGR. I see so many of them and like the designs and think they can be a good value. I don''t have any friendly jewellers in town here, so that is an issue too--none do custom work.

Thanks again. I will keep looking at the spinels. That seems to be the right stone as both the very red and the red/purple/pink ones appeal to me very much. I also like that I would be able to find one with minimal or no treatments as far as I can tell.

 

[LD]

You''re welcome! The only reason I linked to AJS is that you will find a number of gemstones in your price range there. www.multicolour.com are another to try. Also you could speak with Dana at www.mastercutgems.com and Gene at www.precisiongem.com Lastly, John at www.gemrite.com may also be able to help.

If you give them a budget, tell them the colour you''re looking for and that you want something you can wear everyday they may come up with even more suggestions.

One thing to be sure of is that it''s far easier to buy diamonds!

 

[LD]

How about this one - gem 312 half way down the page. Ok, it''s a tourmaline but it''s a great size and colour. If you set it in a setting that would protect it and if you''re not heavy on your jewellery .......

http://www.precisiongem.com/html/html/PinkTourmaline.html

 

[lyra]

I have poured over every gemstone site recommended.

I have decided that I absolutely prefer for this project a cushion or rectangular shape. So that narrows things down quite a bit. I'm still looking at spinels, but now my ideas about colour are changing. I see shades in the red family that appeal to me even if they are not ruby like at all.

I do have a question for now. I have found some of the purples to be quite appealing to my eye, as I've always loved pale purple stones. The prices seem to be lower. Is this because they are not as desirable? Does that really matter, in general? I suppose it should only matter to me, but there are so many experts here I do wonder what the thinking is on colour.

I've read that ajs will be getting a new shipment of spinels in soon. So I'm holding off making any decisions. There are a couple of stones I like, but I want to take more time with this.

This is one I'm liking:
purple pink spinel

ETA: I realize it is quite a bit larger than what I had in mind. I'm saying I like this colour, and the cut/clarity seem okay to me. But maybe I'm missing something?

 

[LD]

Lyra that''s a very pretty spinel but it has a very grey tone to it and so will look much more cooler than the vibrant warm reds you were looking at. Have a look around you - what colours do you tend to surround yourself with? Vibrant or cool?

Also, no, the colour of the spinel doesn''t indicate durability. True red spinels are the most difficult to source and are therefore generally more expensive. An orangey red or pink red will be less than a fire engine red.

In the coloured gemstone world you''ll find that colour can significantly affect price.

 

[lyra]

Okay, I think I understand better. Yes, I do like grey/purple. I used to wear my sister''s pale purple amethyst ring in the 70''s, and have always wanted a stone that colour myself. I know that amethyst is not very hard, and that pale purple is actually not a very desirable colour for it. It''s just a shade that appeals to *me*. I also like some of the orangey pink spinels. This is why I''m taking some time. (Ideally I''d love a whole collection!)

 

[ma re]

Fashion and market always dictate prices. Those colors that appeal to more people will be more expensive, cause there are only so many gemstones available in the market (cause they are products of nature and can''t just be made in unlimited quantities). And since most people think that bright, vivid, vibrant colors are the most beautiful, those usually command the highest of prices. But if such shades are not really your thing that can be great, as your wallet will not end up as empty after the purchase. Simply get what you feel is "really you" and what''ll make you happy when you wear it. More often it''s not what you wear, but how you wear it that counts.

 

[chrono]

Lyra,
It''s good that you are patient with what you want. I like the 1.38 red spinel LD suggested from AJS best but I guess you don''t like the oval shape. Spinels does purple/violet quite well too although many tend to have a slight gray undertone giving a cool look as opposed to the reds which have a hint of orange, giving those a warm look. Reds are pricier because many consumers seem to like red, therefore the demand dictates pricing. Add to the fact that it''s very difficult to find a good ruby red lately, only makes them more expensive. Purple isn''t expensive because there are many very good purple alternatives (garnet, tourmaline, quartz, etc).

 

[lyra]

Chrono, I see your avatar and I swoon.

That stone is perfection to me, but my current budget is very low. I am having a hard time getting past the wanting a square stone because I don''t have any and they do suit my finger well. (Although pear shape is my second favourite cut of all actually!)

I guess I''ll know it when I see it? I need to match my expectations to my budget, clearly. I actually love the .68 stone LD linked above too. But I think that might be too small. If only I could find that a little larger? Maybe something will turn up, or I''ll go another colour direction *for now*. I''ve always loved CS, and am a bit of a mineral geek, loving matrix and geodes and fossils, etc. I could easily be the type to just start collecting samples and never setting them too.