New spinel...

[Kim Bruun]

I recently ordered a blue/purple spinel from a vendor. I had explained to him that I had bought several purple spinels in the past, and returned them because they had all been more greyish IRL than advertised. I told him I was looking for a spinel with NO grey. He showed me photos of two stones, one of which had a glorious purplish blue colour - and beautifully cut. It looked like a tanzanite on the photo. He said it was "very reminiscent to some colors of tanzanite" with "no visible grey". The stone was priced high 1050. A lot of money for me, and I told him so. He also told me that this material was getting harder to find, and that the price would go up. That sold me - I thought to myself that I might never come across a spinel this good again. So I ordered. Importing the stone increased the price by 350 dollars. Okay, I though - I'll save over the next few months.

And then the stone arrived. And it looked as greyish as every other blue and purple spinel I've ever seen. I placed it alongside a "slightly greyish" spinel from Multicolour, and colour saturation was very similar. Alongside my two tanzanites, it looked like wet newspaper. Still beautifully cut. But I thought I had made it clear that I do not like greyish stones. At all.

I'm a bit upset, because even if the vendor will allow me to return the stone, I will still have lost 350 dollars importing it! My stomach is in knots now. I thought I'd paid my dues, made my mistakes and learned from them.

 

[Kim Bruun]

For the record, I wish I'd had my own personal TL looking over my shoulder.

We talked about insuring the stone, and I told him that would mean that I'd have to pay taxes for importing it. I just don't understand how a reputable vendor would sell me a greyish stone when I had specifically said that I was looking for a stone that wasn't greyish. A transaction like that benefits noone.

 

[NKOTB]

Sorry to hear. Can you apply to get your money back from the government, with proof of returning it? In Canada, we have that system.

 

[innerkitten]

Oh no way! That is such a bummer. Why did you have to pay a $350 importing fee?

 

[innerkitten]

For the record, I wish I'd had my own personal TL looking over my shoulder.

We talked about insuring the stone, and I told him that would mean that I'd have to pay taxes for importing it. I just don't understand how a reputable vendor would sell me a greyish stone when I had specifically said that I was looking for a stone that wasn't greyish. A transaction like that benefits noone.

I don't understand it either. Who was the vendor? Or do you not want to share that info?

 

[Kim Bruun]

Thank you, guys - I did not list the vendor because I had found him extremely helpful and generous with his time and I wanted to give him a chance to respond. And he has come up with a solution that works for both of us.

But I gotta tell you, when I opened that envelope and saw that slighty greyish tone, my heart sank. I was having a minor crisis there!

Import taxes in Denmark are high - but I was willing to pay that if it meant finally getting that purple spinel I've always dreamed of (which means strongly saturated). And NKOTB, I never doubted that the vendor would let me return the stone - it was losing the money on the import fee that ruined my "perfect" day.

Thank you for your replies, guys - I guess I needed a pat on the shoulder more than anything.

I just guess I need to be even louder about my distaste for greyish saturation.

Ps. Where does one sign up for a personal TL?

 

[NKOTB]

Thank you, guys - I did not list the vendor because I had found him extremely helpful and generous with his time and I wanted to give him a chance to respond. And he has come up with a solution that works for both of us.

But I gotta tell you, when I opened that envelope and saw that slighty greyish tone, my heart sank. I was having a minor crisis there!

Import taxes in Denmark are high - but I was willing to pay that if it meant finally getting that purple spinel I've always dreamed of (which means strongly saturated). And NKOTB, I never doubted that the vendor would let me return the stone - it was losing the money on the import fee that ruined my "perfect" day.

Thank you for your replies, guys - I guess I needed a pat on the shoulder more than anything.

I just guess I need to be even louder about my distaste for greyish saturation.

Ps. Where does one sign up for a personal TL?

Yes, but I wondered about applying to the government for a refund for the import fee? In Canada, we can print off a form the government has online for an adjustment. If we fill out the form, and submit it with evidence that we returned the goods in question (e.g. the tracking slip from the post office, and proof that our money was returned from the vendor), they will send us a cheque for any duties or taxes that we paid. The only thing we end up paying is the brokerage fee, which they obviously can't give to us, since it went to a third party (Canada Post/Fed Ex/etc.). A lot of people here don't know that we even have this system. Anyway, it might be worth looking into whether or not you have a similar system.

I don't know if you need a personal TL, I'm sure she'd be happy to help you. You gotta share, though.

 

[LD]

Oh Kim, that's pants. I'm SO sorry to hear your story. I won't ask who the vendor is but I once bought a violet/blue spinel - that in the photos was gorgeous - I questionned the vendor repeatedly and was told the same thing as you. The parcel came and ....... ....... out came a pale grey lump. Thankfully I hadn't paid much import duty (although in the UK we do get collared with some). Like you, the vendor was so helpful but I have to say that I now don't trust his "eye" or his photos which is a shame. It will make me hesitate about buying from him again. It's not a great way to learn a lesson though I admit.

I've now given up on Spinels. I've found that I can't "read" blue or purple ones from photos. I have better luck with other gems!

As learning for others (and please don't feel you have to do this) would you be willing to share the vendor's photo next to one you take?

 

[sapphirering]

Sorry to hear about your purchase. I wish there is a way to digitally scan the color and translate it into a numerical value. Then we can use a software to translate the color back on our (properly calibrated) monitor. Even then, looking at a color on a monitor will never been the same as looking at a stone that reflects light back to our eye, but at least it'll be closer.

 

[innerkitten]

Thank you, guys - I did not list the vendor because I had found him extremely helpful and generous with his time and I wanted to give him a chance to respond. And he has come up with a solution that works for both of us.

But I gotta tell you, when I opened that envelope and saw that slighty greyish tone, my heart sank. I was having a minor crisis there!

Import taxes in Denmark are high - but I was willing to pay that if it meant finally getting that purple spinel I've always dreamed of (which means strongly saturated). And NKOTB, I never doubted that the vendor would let me return the stone - it was losing the money on the import fee that ruined my "perfect" day.

Thank you for your replies, guys - I guess I needed a pat on the shoulder more than anything.

I just guess I need to be even louder about my distaste for greyish saturation.

Ps. Where does one sign up for a personal TL?

Right. I understand. Well I'm glad you were able to work something out with the vendor.

 

[Kim Bruun]

@ sapphirering: Yes, that would be wonderful, wouldn't it? But as long as cameras can't accurately capture the colours the way the human eye sees them, I doubt that it's possible.

@ LD: Yeah, and let me tell you, experience does not diminish the extreme disappointment one feels when one of those "almost the colour of tanzanite" spinels mysteriously transforms into pale grey lump in transit. It's not that I want to be selfish and bar others from learning from my experience, but I also don't want it to be a case of outing the seller - and his cuts are perhaps somewhat recognisable. I can only say from my experience that three fairly major vendors have compared the colour of their spinels to tanzanite when describing their stones to me. The vendor in the present case clarified that what he meant by comparing the spinel to tanzanite was that it was rare because it was blue with a purplish hue. Then I have a horrendously cut spinel from Multicolour which looked purple on the site - and it is, under electric light. Under the sun, it is grayish blue/purple. And finally, I bought an Ebay spinel - the pic featured was gorgeously purple, and obviously colour enhanced, I came to learn when I held the stone in my hand. I guess that my advice to others looking into purple spinel online would be: "If grey bothers you, ask, and ask for additional pictures, and be sure that the seller is willing to let you return the stone if you are not satisfied with it."

@ NKOTB: Thank you for clarifying. That would definitely be worth checking into for me. It's cool that you have that in Canada. And really, it's the only ethical way for customs to handle it. You shouldn't have to pay tax duties merely to inspect something, should you?

 

[LD]

Kim - you're doing all the right things by asking the questions and for additional photos but as you've found, it never replaces seeing a gemstone in real life. The only thing I would say is that in my experience I have yet to see a spinel that looks like a GOOD tanzanite. In fact, I think it's very difficult to replicate the velvety goodness of tanzanite which is why I think it remains a popular stone despite the hype that normally comes with it. Even if you could find one, in my experience, they are the Holy Grail and I'm not sure many come onto the market. If they do, it'll be for about 30 seconds! I suspect that most won't end on websites for sale and vendors, when they have them, will go to regular buyers who they know will want it!

Oh and BTW I'm pretty sure that we've both experienced the same thing from the same vendor!

 

[Kim Bruun]

Thank you LD, I guess that was partly the reason for my despair: "Why do I keep getting these pale grey lumps? What am I doing wrong?!" (In defense of this seller, his pale grey lump was beautifully cut)

Would you say that saturate purple spinel is practically impossible to come by? It's not that I expect that very specific blue/purple of tanzanite - just something purple, lavender, whatever, with no grey to it.

 

[T L]

Thank you LD, I guess that was partly the reason for my despair: "Why do I keep getting these pale grey lumps? What am I doing wrong?!" (In defense of this seller, his pale grey lump was beautifully cut)

Would you say that saturate purple spinel is practically impossible to come by? It's not that I expect that very specific blue/purple of tanzanite - just something purple, lavender, whatever, with no grey to it.

Kim, sorry this happened to you. In my experience, almost all blue, violet, purple spinels have some degree of grey in them, and some shift to a more greyish color in various lighting. What is your definition of "no grey" in a spinel? Can you post some example photos, and if you don't want to show your gem here, that's fine, but can you show an example of a gem that has the same color?

 

[LD]

TL beat me to it! I agree with what she's said. If you can do as she suggests ie. post up a photo of the colour you "expected" after listening to the vendor it would be helpful. It may be that you're going for the impossible OR there may be a compromise!

 

[colorluvr]

I have two that were sold as "plum", but I've had both of them for about four years. (one I bought second hand and the other one I just had Jerry Newman recut).

Are these anything like the color you are looking for or do you want more bluish purple like a tanzanite. These are more "plum" than a tanzanite color.

 

[Kim Bruun]

Something the colour of item# 3226: http://www.gem2000.com/gsresult.php...weight=&pieces=Any&cutshape=Any&Submit=Search

Or items# 3117 and 3133: http://www.gem2000.com/gsresult.php...weight=&pieces=Any&cutshape=Any&Submit=Search

Those would be examples of purple I find attractive. I wouldn't mind darker, but the reddish/mauve tones do not appeal to me.

 

[Kim Bruun]

Are these anything like the color you are looking for or do you want more bluish purple like a tanzanite. These are more "plum" than a tanzanite color.

Those are nice (the setting with the diamonds is pretty), but not the purple I am looking for. I'd something either more bluish purple, or more lavender, and probably/preferably, just a smidge more saturate, if possible.

 

[minousbijoux]

Kim:

All I can say is that s**ks! It sounds like you did everything you could to prevent this from happening. I had a similar thing happen with a well known and highly thought of vendor recently, but I made the mistake of assuming they knew my tastes (I've bought a fair amount of stones from them). Unfortunately, it was immediately sent back and I was disappointed I will add to what others have said that what you seek is like a needle in a haystack and would be considerably more than $1K (though you didn't specify the size). The only spinel that comes close to what you describe in terms of pure, saturated blue hue - but with no purple - is Laurie's beautiful spinel (its her avatar as well).

But your case is different, and I have had that experience too, mostly from ebay vendors, which I chalk up to language and/or honesty difficulties. I send them back and cross them off my list. In fact, I'm starting to be off ebay completely - wish I wasn't, but just can't seem to find anything of interest any more.

In your case, you did everything right. You asked all the questions you could ask. Perhaps you could have asked for more photos (can't remember what you said about that at the beginning), but even so, I agree with LD, that sometimes it is difference in what the eye sees. We had a case here where someone was looking for a pure red spinel. A well-known vendor advertised his spinel as pure red, though to several members here it looked to have an orangish tone. When questioned further, the vendor assured the interested party absolutely that it was pure red. When the buyer received it, they described it as a flame red spinel and immediately sent it back. It happens. I think the vendor felt bad, but it was what they saw in the light they saw it in.

Which leads to my final comment. I think there is something to be said for where you are located. I have heard folks talk about gems being not suitable for the UK or places like Seattle due to the often overcast conditions. I would just add that perhaps from the vendor's perspective, in their daylight, it did look less grey than in your light in Denmark. Just a thought - this might not apply at all.

Again, I'm sorry it happened.

-Minou

 

[colorluvr]

The ones I have seen that color are usually called violet or lavendar, but they also have some gray in them in some lighting - sorry I couldn't be more help - good luck in your search.

Do remember that if you can't get the color you want from a precision cutter, you can always get one "spiffed up" (recut) like I did if its a decent size and you like the color (assuming the cut doesn't start out horrible). I lost a tad bit of color on the one that Jerry just recut (the one in the ring with the diamonds) but it was a dark stone to start out with, so it was actually an inprovement.

 

[Pandora II]

You may well find that the light in Denmark is affecting the colour. I've learnt that if I buy a bright blue sapphire in Sri Lanka I need to buy 2 tones lighter to achieve the same colour back home.

I fear that you may always be disappointed with blue spinels unless you have lottery winner funds to spend. I have seen a couple of cobalt spinels - Vietnamese in origin - that were unbelievable. No grey, great saturation and a very pure blue. The price-tag wasn't quite true Kashmir sapphire, but pretty close. They are just incredibly rare.

 

[minousbijoux]

Now that I see the color you seek I would say that Laurie's (Jewelfreak) is very different. I love the color you have chosen, but it will be hard to find. Have you tried Sri Lanka gems or colorful gems on ebay? Periodically, she has nice stones. I have gotten some pretty light ones from her and I know TL has as well.

 

[LD]

Ok now I KNOW FOR SURE that we have bought from the same vendor!

The colour you're looking for is not impossible BUT the likelihood is you will still see grey. Just wondering but have you spoken to Gem2000? I've never bought from them so haven't got a clue whether their photos are accurate/good returns policy etc., but is it worth contacting them?

 

[JewelFreak]

I'm so sorry, Kim, that you've had such a tough time. There are a lot of advantages to buying online but the consistency of color between stone, camera, & monitor is the biggest downside imo. Is there any possibility you could get to a few gem shows? It means a drawn-out process but your own eyes are most trustworthy. What a shame the duty is so high in Denmark (one of my favorite countries in the world; spent a lot of time there, never enough!); makes it really hard to take a look at something in order to be sure. I hope you can claim it back -- seems only fair when they charge you an arm & a leg.

Sometimes the discrepancy is in how different people see color (and the light, as said above), and the concept of words. A year or so ago I bought an indicolite from a vendor I like & trust completely; he described it as "seafoam" & it looked like that onscreen. In hand, though, it was for me, waaay too greenish for seafoam. So we had a conversation via email & he attached a few examples of what he sees as "seafoam." They had quite a bit too much green for me to call them that. All in perception & language.

My spinel isn't close to the color you want; it's true blue but does have no gray at all. I consider it a lucky lucky find, especially given what they sell for today. I do agree that it'll be hard to find just what you want for $1K -- maybe you can add more to your saving as you keep searching? One consolation: when you do find The One, it will be the love of your life!!

--- Laurie

P.S.

I've learnt that if I buy a bright blue sapphire in Sri Lanka I need to buy 2 tones lighter to achieve the same colour back home.

That is fascinating, Pandora! Must have been a few disappointments as you learned it.

 

[Kim Bruun]

@ JewelFreak: That is a BEAUTIFUL spinel, and if I came across something like that and it was in my budget, I wouldn't hesitate either. That said, I do think there are nice stones to be had on a 1k budget (and whatever your budget, if you invest what is a large sum of money for you in a gem, it should be a joyous occasion). And sometimes, you do make a good investment. Just over a decade ago, I bought a deep purplish blue tanzanite, very saturate, clean, well cut, and about 1.20 carats. It cost me about 250 dollars. I wonder what it would set me back today?

@ LD: Now I'm curious which vendor you are talking about - but let's leave it at that. And no, I have not contacted Gem2000 - they are wholesale only.

@ minousbijoux & Pandora: I was actually think the same thing. Mid-spring to summer can get very sunny here - like today, there were clouds, but I wouldn't call it overcast, and my tanzanites were revelling shamelessly. I get that what you are talking about is perhaps more than just how bright it is (like the blue/red balance in the light, can it have something to do with the angle at which the sunlight enters the atmosphere?). But... could the Danish light really be so specific as to flaunt one bluish purple's (i.e. tanzanite's) best qualities and turn another bluish purple (i.e. spinel) to wet newspaper?

The vendor has explained to me that the grayish tone is a result of the presence of iron, and that even the smallest amount of iron will result in the tiniest cast of grey, which will probably be unpalateable to my eyes! Anyways, like I said, he has presented me with a solution I am happy with.

Thank you guys for your words of encouragement during my grey crisis (lol!). It's actually comforting to know that you've had your disappointments too (that sounds awful, I now).

I guess from now on, I will restrict my blue/purple spinel shopping to vendors I can visit physically, though.

And pardon my whiony thread!

 

[T L]

Something the colour of item# 3226: http://www.gem2000.com/gsresult.php...weight=&pieces=Any&cutshape=Any&Submit=Search

Or items# 3117 and 3133: http://www.gem2000.com/gsresult.php...weight=&pieces=Any&cutshape=Any&Submit=Search

Those would be examples of purple I find attractive. I wouldn't mind darker, but the reddish/mauve tones do not appeal to me.

Kim,
I'm glad the vendor could work out a deal for you. I've seen spinels like #3226, and the ones I've seen often color shift from pinkish lavender to a more bluish lavender. They're very pretty, and I hope you can find one like it one of these days. They do exist without being overly grey. Good luck on your search.

 

[minousbijoux]

Ok now I KNOW FOR SURE that we have bought from the same vendor!

You are quite the detective, LD

 

[chrono]

Unfortunately, to get a saturated lavender spinel (little to no gray), isn't impossible but it is incredibly difficult. The best luck I've had with such spinels (little to no gray) have come from Luc Yen, Vietnam. Pricing wasn't that high initially, but has sky rocketed a year or two ago. Such stones tend to be colour shifters though, usually pinkish lavender to bluish lavender. I purchased such a stone last year from Brad of The Gem Trader. You can bet there was a super long waiting line and I was not going to let it go.

I think my stone has some gray but it's not overpowering. I also paid a very reasonable price of under $400 for a 1.4 ct stone so I cannot complain about it.

I have a cobalt bearing blue spinel that does an interesting colour shift indoors; it becomes the colour of tanzanite, that is, an intense violetish blue. However, I also paid more for that one about 2 years ago. I am pretty sure I paid more than $1K for it but under $1.5K. Again, there was a tremendously long waiting line and I have continued to search for a similar stone without success.

I am terribly sorry that you incurred such terrible expense for a stone that did not live up to your expectations.

ETA
PS has washed out the colour again - the spinel is one shade darker and one shade more saturated in the original picture compared to the one I see online.

 

[chrono]

This one can be considered "old stock" as it sat in inventory for at least 6 years. It's a fairly large stone so I paid more for it. It is also a colour shifter. Grape purple indoors and violetish blue outdoors. Looks like PS is tamping down the colours again.

 

[NKOTB]

This one can be considered "old stock" as it sat in inventory for at least 6 years. It's a fairly large stone so I paid more for it. It is also a colour shifter. Grape purple indoors and violetish blue outdoors. Looks like PS is tamping down the colours again.

SIGH.

Btw, as someone who has been on the hunt for a similar spinel (or sapphire) for a little while now, I asked Brad about any similar spinels on the horizon, just before his last drop. He said he had two Luc Yen spinels, and listed one in his last drop (for under 1K, but certainly well over 400 dollars). You might inquire and see if the other one is still available?