Green Diamonds - ever seen one ?

[valeria101]

Don't worry, I am not looking for one !

Actually, I would very much cherrish the chance to see one up close. Have you ? If not, who does ?

With a hint from David of Diamonds by Lauren that he might pass by this thread and tell some of his green diamond stories, it seems ok to go ahead and open a thread about a certain rare bird: green diamonds. I hope some would agree.

These guys are rare enough to be downright mysterious...
Rare and prized for mostly rarity as they are, I'd bet that any news about green diamonds left in the open is about as carefully mastered as the anouncements of the Fed.

How many are out there anyway ? For once, I am puzzled by their prices: in the past 16 months three such stones around 2 carats sold for .18, .5 and .9 $m / ct. Are these numbers just random or just the seller's evaluation of what their market can bear ? Surely, any of the prices mentoned below are rather stratospheric, but let that aside for a second and look at how different they are ! What gives ? Perhaps the question makes me a fanatic, but, well... you know that already.

 

[valeria101]

If you ever wonder if these things are already online, then yes, they are. Here's what comes up effortlessly:


Citing Robert Genis (preciousgemstones.com newsletter): ‘According to an internet colored diamond dealer who deals primarily with collectors, >” Hofer only sees about 10 per year, although there may be 20 a year on the market.’
Some not so green
The dark, drab, included, murky and muddy stuff that still sells because the label contains the word ‘green’. And then the very, very light ones that make one wonder if they are color blind somehow…
Some weird news
Summary from an obscure personal webpage: Nearly 300 carat (292.86cts) pale green diamond crystal, a distorted octahedron of 4cm each side mined in Zaire in the 70’s, has just been cut into the two largest green diamonds known…
The stone came as a monocrystal with thick translucent coating and a cleaved plane on one side and was believed to have a transparent core, typical for the source. It isexpected to yield several cut diamonds. Two have been cut: a 131.84 cts and one 46.17 cts. One stone near 100 cts and several small ones are still in the works. No mistake here: the original description makes dirrect refference to and considers the large stones in the same green league with those sold for 0.3-0.7m/ct by Sothebys and call the Dresden the ‘third largest green diamond in the world’. Good Lord, can we see those ?

Refference for expert consultation: Christopher Cavey and Associates.
Speaking of which… is there a larger one anyway ?
Citing the guts of the World Wide Web, Harry Winston might have sold a green diamond of 72.76 cts to King Farouk of Egypt in 1951.
There are allot more bits like this – just ask Google.


David & Experts, your turn !

Is it worth adding to Pricescopers' pipe dream material ? Oh well...

 

[Matata]

I saw several large green diamonds while drooling my way through the NY diamond district in 2000. I didn''t know a thing about diamonds or gems back then and I recall being surprised that there was such a thing as a green diamond. My favorite was a 7 carat RB with a color a bit deeper than the emerald cut you posted. Don''t know whether or not they were enhanced or natural but they sure were pretty. I also saw a gorgeous red one.

 

[icekid]

wow that Tiff''s Emerald is stunning... and i love the more yellow-green colors too! yummmmy!! I''d love to hear some of the experts chime in too; green is my color

 

[TKC]

WOW what a scary price, I would rather buy a yellowish green sapphire. The color may imitate fancy yellowish green diamond

 

[widget]

Speaking of green diamonds....MJO started a thread about them a while ago.

As I recall he was going to send a green diamond off to the GIA to assure that it was natural....

How did that work out MJO???

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[diamondsbylauren]

Cool photos! Cool thread!

I've been fortunate to have seen a few Intense Green diamonds.


Ummmm.. I was not exactly bowled over.,
The photos Ana generoulsy researched and poosted are nice- but to me, the only one that really moves me is the Tiffany Emerald cut.
I want to find the guy who paid 1.7 Mil for the 3.02 yellowish green- that's an incredibly high price.
Icestore's price is , at $360k, extrmely reasonable, for a 2.05 Fancy Green.


In general, although the color is very rare- I do not feel green is as desirable as other colors , like pink, blue- and yellow.
All these colors lend themselves to diamonds and jewlery better than most green diamonds- which are uber expensive.

It's clearly a question of taste too.

Matata- I would bet a dime against $100 that the stones you saw were irradiated diamonds.
A round diamond of intense green would be worth millions- and a red?
a .50 is worth millions.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 7/14/2005 11:29:21 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

A round diamond of intense green would be worth millions- and a red?
a .50 is worth millions.

A red...SWOON...my favorite color, a red diamond...the PINNACLE of my desire...anybody EVER EVER seen one of those? I''ve seen a picture of the Moussaieff red...OH. MY. GOSH. Freaking gorgeous. Are there any others????

 

[valeria101]

Date: 7/15/2005 1:54:52 AM
Author: FireGoddess

A red...... Are there any others ?

Sure... many look like this, but light colors are seriously beautiful although you never know what GIA will call ''red''. I d notknow if any of those below would qualify, but why not just post another picture ?

from roughdiamonds.com

 

[Matata]

A moment of silence, please, to gaze at the standard bearers....

The Moussaief red

Dresdren Green

Whoa...it''s getting hot in here.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 7/15/2005 3:15:06 AM
Author: valeria101
I d notknow if any of those below would qualify, but why not just post another picture ?

Quite right!!!! Thanks for the picture. I''ll have to check that website out. Those are the only other reds I''ve ever seen pictures of...yummy!

 

[MaybeDayze]

My sister in law doesn't like diamonds, horror or horrors.
So my brother found her a small .80 oval irradiated green diamond.
Everyone think's it's her birthstone, and not infact a diamond - or her e-ring.
It's quite green, grassy bluish green, and has that lovely diamond sparkle. (rainbows.)
It's sort of like the fancy green, without so much yellow sparkle. (It's not a super intense green.)
In a simple varna knife edge platinum setting, he spent $3000. (About 4 years ago.)
I've always wanted to know more about irradiated stones. How stable are they?
Anyone know more about irradiated stones?
I wish I had pictures for you all.

MarLO

 

[valeria101]

Date: 7/15/2005 6:22:01 PM
Author: MarLoRey

I've always wanted to know more about irradiated stones. How stable are they?
Anyone know more about irradiated stones?

The treatment is stable... and for greens it also is pretty close to what happens to the natural ones: both natural and colored greens are tinted by iradiation. Of course, the process is not the same in lab as innature, but the difference in effects is subtle. So much so that it is notoriously difficult to get a GIA cert for natural origin of color on green diamonds. Guess this must be true since I've heard several specific stories (e.g. half carat fancy light green spending 6 months at GIA for a lab report) and generic complaints about certification delays and inconclusiveness (see that preciousgemstones.com newsletter for a colorful one).

IMO, few color treated diamonds actually look natural, but this may be a qiurk of fashion more than shortcoming of technology. Simply put, they are overdoing it (so the vast majority of resulting enhanced stones are too colored to be true) due to some perceive demand for intense colors. And the rough submitted to reatment is already tinted (usually brown) and/or included. Valuable diamonds (=white & clean) are not colored artificially because this would decrease their value. I wish I knew for sure if light greens are actually feasible in the lab starting from high quality rough. My hunch is that this is so, due to labs caution in certifying color origin for any green stone light or not.

Few naturals get the strong green or green-blue colors usually found in lab treated stones, but that is possible. I've seen ones at least in picture...

Am-Diamonds describes the treatment process a bit down this link. I wish I had a more bookish source at han, but for lack of that... here's their relevant paragraphs:

"In the rough, greenish diamonds tend to occur as one of three types: a stone, often a crystal shape, possessing a light tinge rather like the color of water in a swimming pool; a stone with a dark green skin; a yellowish-green stone characterized by a degree if lubricity. After being cut and polished, diamonds of the first and second types usually lose their greenish color to become white gems or, alternatively, light yellow stones known as "silvery capes". The few truly green faceted diamonds therefore originate from the third type. The famous collection of De Beers Fancy Colored Diamonds, which has been displayed throughout the world includes some beautiful examples of green diamonds.

Since this is the story of a truly rare gem, a scientific explanation for the phenomenon of green diamonds is needed. The green color is usually caused by the crystal's coming into contact with a radioactive source at some point during its lifetime, and in geological terms, this is measured in millions of years. The most common form of irradiation diamonds chance into is through bombardment by alpha particles which are present in uranium compounds or percolating groundwater. Long exposure to these particles forms a green spot on the surface of the diamond, or sometimes produces a thin green coating which is only skin deep and can easily be removed during the faceting process. But bombardment by beta and gamma rays well as neutrons will color the stone to a greater depth and in some cases turn the whole stone's interior green.

Heating the stone might sometimes improve the color but care must be taken to keep the temperature below 600°C, because at this temperature the green color is likely to turn to a light yellow or brown. The change in color is caused by the change in the crystal's lattice structure. Before bombardment by radioactive particles the crystal's lattice was stable but the initial radioactive shock was sufficient to disturb the equilibrium and produce a green coloration. Tempering will distort the lattice further and produce another change of color. This phenomena is analogous to a piece of elastic that has been overstretched; it will stretch back so far, but never returns to its original length. Similarly, after a treatment the diamond's lattice remains permanently distorted.

Research has disclosed that green or irradiated diamonds are more common from alluvial deposits, although they are found in primary sources, usually in the upper part of the diamond-bearing volcanic pipe, but green diamonds of any size are rare. The Dresden Green, which probably weighed over 100 (old) carats in its rough form, is unique among world famous diamonds. It was originally probably an elongated unbroken stone since greenish diamonds rarely occur as cleavages."


And you know what ? I am spending the summer in Berlin, and Dresden is not too far. perhaps I should see a green diamond in flesh anyway

 

[AGBF]

Well...I hate the yellowish-green stone. It is just as well, since I don''t have an extra $2 million lying around. I like green stones that don''t show yellow. I don''t know how to explain that since there is always yelow in green. But I don''t like peridots. If I get a green stone, I think it will have to be a good emerald. (I already own a number of mediocre color emeralds I bought in Colombia!)

 

[dkodner]

I have posted these a while back on another site, but here is a .53ct fancy deep green, and a .51 ct. fancy purplish red. They are not for sale, but when it''s time for them to go, they wold go for 1 mil + per carat. The deep is by far the most entrancing, beautiful diamond I have ever seen. There is something almost mystical about it. I have not seen a treated green that looks like a natural green, but I''m sure there are a few out there. Mata- if you saw a 7 carat round deeper than the emerald cut posted, I''m with david...it was treated..) enjoy!

 

[dkodner]

here is the red...

 

[widget]

Author: dkodner
.....They are not for sale, but when it''s time for them to go, they would go for 1 mil + per carat.

Rats! I guess I''ll have to take them off my Christmas list!

dkodner: Thanks for posting those beauties! It''s so nice to hear from you! Come back often!

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[Libster]

Date: 7/14/2005 11:29:21 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Cool photos! Cool thread!

I've been fortunate to have seen a few Intense Green diamonds.


Ummmm.. I was not exactly bowled over.,
The photos Ana generoulsy researched and poosted are nice- but to me, the only one that really moves me is the Tiffany Emerald cut.
I want to find the guy who paid 1.7 Mil for the 3.02 yellowish green- that's an incredibly high price.
Icestore's price is , at $360k, extrmely reasonable, for a 2.05 Fancy Green.


In general, although the color is very rare- I do not feel green is as desirable as other colors , like pink, blue- and yellow.
All these colors lend themselves to diamonds and jewlery better than most green diamonds- which are uber expensive.

It's clearly a question of taste too.

Matata- I would bet a dime against $100 that the stones you saw were irradiated diamonds.
A round diamond of intense green would be worth millions- and a red?
a .50 is worth millions.

About this time last year you had a stone I really wanted that was this green/yellow/brown and I called it and you may have too, "Little Neon"! I would show it to hubby and tell him I'd love it in a pendant with a halo in rose gold with pink diamonds!!! I still think of that stone. You had it mounted in a 3 stone ring, if I remember correctly. One day I'll come knocking on your door to find me a "little neon"

 

[valeria101]

Date: 7/16/2005 10:57:40 AM
Author: dkodner

I have posted these a while back on another site...

Oh yes! I sure remember the ''morningstar collection'' (isn''t that what the group of four fanies were called ?). Quite something...

Thank you for the rare sight.

Even a virtual one.

 

[dkodner]

Oh yes! I sure remember the ''morningstar collection'' (isn''t that what the group of four fanies were called ?). Quite something...

Yes Valeria- they are part of the Morningstar collection. We have added another stone to the collection since I posted them last. This is a .83ct. pure deep violet heart shape. It''s not a great picture, but it is a beautiful stone, and extremely rare. I have not had it professionally photographed with the others yet. Enjoy.

 

[icekid]

dkodner- thanks so much for sharing! such stunning stones..

 

[raddygast]

That''s the only red diamond picture I''ve ever seen that didn''t look like garbage.

I''m sorry, but most colored diamonds (except some blues and pinks) look, to me, like horrible cheap colored gemstones. I realize that the rarity factor makes them more precious than any gem, but seriously....

That Moussaeif red... would anyone buy it if it were a ruby or spinel or garnet? It is simply not appealing at all. Diamonds may have special optical properties that makes the colored ones impressive to behold in person, but at least online, the color leaves a lot to be desired.

Collect them for rarity, not beauty, I guess.

That said those two diamonds: the deep green one and the red one last posted, are actually beautiful in and of themselves. I would have thought the red would go for more than a million/ct.... the whole stone should sell closer to a million than half a million, no? I know it''s a half-carat, but it is actually far more beautiful than any other I''ve seen pictures of (if the colors are accurate).

 

[valeria101]

Date: 7/16/2005 9:30:56 PM
Author: raddygast
That's the only red diamond picture I've ever seen that didn't look like garbage.

That said those two diamonds: the deep green one and the red one last posted, are actually beautiful in and of themselves. I know it's a half-carat, but it is actually far more beautiful than any other I've seen pictures of...

Yeah... some ugly stuff is sold for high prices and the logic is hard for me to internalize as well. But these... these are the little gremlins that all the hype is about: as long as they are both very rare an very, very beautiful, well, you see what happens.

I wish the Morningstars would come out of the box within reach. Even the former group of four was down right haunting! Now they are five and many would not know such purple color as the heart even exists. All the rare colors are there as much as I can tell, and there may be no better way to fit a world class treasure in half a nut shell. There surely is some degree of marvel in that, Raddy.

Of course, each kind of precious material shares the glory - the best (and some more, not quite as prized allright) are supposed to be strikingly beautiful without any persuasion required. Some things never seem too highly valued - there is simply no better. To me, such colors are simply the best of diamonds - those that make all others valuable by association. Of course, they are small - but, really, does it even matter ?

Oh well, there was no need to write such things. It just feels good to share a delightful thought.

Thank you David Kodner !

 

[dkodner]

Thank you for the kind words about these stones. Raddy- unfortunately the rarity, and expense of these gems makes it difficult for most to see items like the Moussaeif red in person. Pictures online and printed will never do any of these famous diamonds justice. Each diamond has a unique brilliance and dispersion of color that is unlike anything on earth. Even those that are deemed the worst will give you a feeling different than looking at a colored gemstone. That being said, NEVER collect a colored diamond for rarity, always look at the beauty. If a colored diamond does not "speak" to you, no matter how rare, it will probably not "speak" to many, and then where is the value? I am a strong believer that one should never consider a colored diamond, or gemstone for that matter, by it''s paper, or picture. If a diamond is beautiful, it is beautiful, no matter what a piece of paper says, or whether it is rare or not. These diamonds, and hopefully a few more before the collection is complete, were selected not for size, or clarity, or what the GIA called them, but for their beauty. It is hard for consumers, and even most in the industry, to understand that the value is in the beauty, not in a piece of paper. This is why you see a lot of ugly stuff sold at high prices. People think because it got a favorable grade from the GIA, or that it is flawless, or close to it, that it will be highly sought after, and a good investment. This is until they go to a real collector to sell it. Collectors of colored diamonds, and those who study them, care little about the size, and even less about the clarity, it is all about the color, and how well the cutter did his job to bring out that color. A good example is a .63ct fancy deep blue pear shape which is part of the Morningstar collection. To a lot of people in the diamond industry, this stone, by paper, would not be as valuable as a Vivid blue, because often what the GIA grades as deep is too dark, and not as pleasing as Vivid. However, to look at this stone, it looks unlike any blue diamond you have ever seen. It looks like the finest sapphire but with an incredible brilliance. Every time I have discussed this stone with someone in the trade, they write it off as not being as good as most vivid, or even intense blues, until they see it. Then they exclaim they have never seen such a beautiful diamond in their entire lives. That''s when they understand, and that is my point about buying beauty over anything else. Never buy a colored diamond, or any diamond for that matter, by paper.

Sorry- I tend to ramble on about diamonds.....this is probably more discussion than anyone wants to read. Keep up the interest in gemstones and colored diamonds, it is a world you can study for your entire life, and still have so much more to learn.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 7/18/2005 2:46:47 PM
Author: dkodner

.... this is probably more discussion than anyone wants to read.

Oh no, by no means... at least not here !

 

[raddygast]

Well, thank you for that personal exposition. It was pretty illuminating.

My question: are there any sites online where I can learn about this Morningstar collection, preferably with pictures?

 

[widget]

Date: 7/18/2005 4:22:50 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 7/18/2005 2:46:47 PM
Author: dkodner

.... this is probably more discussion than anyone wants to read.

Oh no, by no means... at least not here !

I heartily agree...we can''t hear enough!

Has anyone seen this treasure? According to the blurb, these stones were collected by an individual over thirty years, and made into a brooch for his wife in the ''50s. Twelve of the gems have GIA reports. One is a Fancy intense greenish blue, and another is a f.i. bluish green...pretty yummy, don''t you think?

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[Libster]

Widget,
Very yummy indeed....it appears to be calling your name

 

[widget]

Author: Libster

Widget,....it appears to be calling your name

Well, if it is, it isn''t in any language I understand!

The asking price for that little bauble is over half a million!!!

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[maxspinel]

I saw one many years back when I was pursuing a yellow diamond. It was yellowish green with GIA paper and priced at $8000 (2 ct vs). However, at the time, I think the color looked weird and yacky. I didn''t think it would look good on a ring and I would have a hard time convincing my friends that it is a natural diamond. I bought a less expensive yellow diamond instead. I always looked back, wondering if the yellowish green diamond would have been a better investment but it was not that pretty.